August 23, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: The booster shots were never tested for the Delta Variant and we now know their protection works for 8 months or so. Do they really expect us to just vaccinate our way out of this. Push back is going to start getting stronger and stronger I mean....yeah. That's the way it should work.
August 23, 20214 yr Just now, Paul852 said: I mean....yeah. That's the way it should work. If it only lasts for 8 months this is a never ending cycle and only big pharma wins.
August 23, 20214 yr You know, I’m a staunch libertarian. But the more I read this thread, the more I understand why totalitarian dictatorships exist.
August 23, 20214 yr https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/delta-variant-pandemic-risk-safety/619798/
August 23, 20214 yr 21 minutes ago, Bill said: You know, I’m a staunch libertarian. But the more I read this thread, the more I understand why totalitarian dictatorships exist. I've decided not to devote much energy to how stupid people decide to endanger themselves. Where libertarian calculus gets difficult is when other people being morons directly threatens my sphere. If someone wants to take ivermectin because they're morons, go for it. Just don't ask me to pay for your funeral. When people eschew a well tested and proven effective vaccine in large numbers.. things get difficult ideologically.
August 23, 20214 yr 5 hours ago, lynched1 said: Poor genetics. That does suck. We all have a weak link somewhere. Wow.
August 23, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-kids-are-hospitalized-with-covid-19-and-doctors-fear-it-will-get-worse-11629624602?mod=hp_lead_pos2 Perfect time to send them all back to school without masks. What could go wrong? Kids don't even get covid, I'm told.
August 23, 20214 yr 25 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Wow. A revelation or a reaction to unvarnished truth? Have another hypothesis?
August 23, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, DaEagles4Life said: The booster shots were never tested for the Delta Variant and we now know their protection works for 8 months or so. Do they really expect us to just vaccinate our way out of this. Push back is going to start getting stronger and stronger Yes.
August 23, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, DaEagles4Life said: If it only lasts for 8 months this is a never ending cycle and only big pharma wins. There's a delta targeted booster being trialed that should even provide better protection which will help break that cycle. Short-term, a bundled flu shot + covid booster should help streamline the process for those who get flu shots anyway. Long-term, levels of community spread should drop once regions hit that 90-95% threshold, making boosters more of an afterthought. Also, you don't have to get a booster, just like you don't have to get a flu shot if you'd rather take your chances without one. But those that do get it will help curb community spread while also reducing their own chances of developing long-term symptoms. And eventually, enough people will have gotten vaccinated/boosted, or gotten infected naturally, that the virus will run out of vulnerable hosts to infect. Might be another year or two away now thanks to delta, but still very much attainable.
August 23, 20214 yr 5 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/delta-variant-pandemic-risk-safety/619798/ Excellent. The type of nuanced discussion about the realities of weighing risks, proactive protective behavior, normal behavior, etc. etc. The tricky part (I believe you pointed this out a while back) is that when one opens up that type of discussion it gives the idiots fuel for their fire. That thinking applies to several aspects of the overall discussion and includes the vaccine. When we look at a nuanced discussion of how well the vaccines work (i.e. not 100%) and what the risks are we open up for the nay sayers and antivaxxers to point and say "see, I told you so". A tricky balance. There was a good segment in a recent Sam Harris podcast on this very point. My personal preference is to push the narrative around getting the vaccine and make that the focus and limit the discussion on items that detract from that clear message.
August 23, 20214 yr https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210813-serbian-cave-hermit-gets-covid-19-jab-urges-others-to-follow Serbian cave hermit goes downtown to rummage through some trash for food and discovers that the whole world is in a pandemic then immediately gets vaccinated. 😂
August 23, 20214 yr 8 hours ago, lynched1 said: You continue to show your ignorance. VAERS is not what you think it is.
August 23, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: You continue to show your ignorance. VAERS is not what you think it is. Disclaimer VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind. The strengths of VAERS are that it is national in scope and can quickly provide an early warning of a safety problem with a vaccine. As part of CDC and FDA’s multi-system approach to post-licensure vaccine safety monitoring, VAERS is designed to rapidly detect unusual or unexpected patterns of adverse events, also known as "safety signals.” If a safety signal is found in VAERS, further studies can be done in safety systems such as the CDC’s Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) or the Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment (CISA) project. These systems do not have the same scientific limitations as VAERS, and can better assess health risks and possible connections between adverse events and a vaccine. Key considerations and limitations of VAERS data: Vaccine providers are encouraged to report any clinically significant health problem following vaccination to VAERS, whether or not they believe the vaccine was the cause. Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information. The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines. VAERS data is limited to vaccine adverse event reports received between 1990 and the most recent date for which data are available. VAERS data do not represent all known safety information for a vaccine and should be interpreted in the context of other scientific information. VAERS data available to the public include only the initial report data to VAERS. Updated data which contains data from medical records and corrections reported during follow up are used by the government for analysis. However, for numerous reasons including data consistency, these amended data are not available to the public.
August 23, 20214 yr Literally anybody can report anything to VAERS. They mean nothing until they are verified. And very few have been. 12k people have not died from the vaccine. This is like reporting election results based on some online poll anybody can vote any number of times in.
August 23, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said: And so will the lock downs and mandates. But just keep pushing back. You're so cool. It would be awesome if more businesses need to shut down because people refuse to get vaccinated because of political reasons. it seems roughly 60% of the country has shown strong willingness to be vaccinated to get out of this. Based on numbers, probably another 10-15% were just lazy and are now part of a vaccination surge. Which is encouraging. If only the final ~25-30% of the country would stop listening to their crazy uncle on Facebook (or BEING the crazy uncle on Facebook) and get over this ridiculous notion that COVID is a hoax or overblown, or that the vaccine and masks are some kind of manifest tyranny.
August 23, 20214 yr 33 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said: And so will the lock downs and mandates. But just keep pushing back. You're so cool. It would be awesome if more businesses need to shut down because people refuse to get vaccinated because of political reasons. I am vaccinated so try again. The question still remains why are they pushing a booster when we see the evidence the shot isn't that effective vs the Delta Variant.
August 23, 20214 yr 9 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: There's a delta targeted booster being trialed that should even provide better protection which will help break that cycle. Short-term, a bundled flu shot + covid booster should help streamline the process for those who get flu shots anyway. Long-term, levels of community spread should drop once regions hit that 90-95% threshold, making boosters more of an afterthought. Also, you don't have to get a booster, just like you don't have to get a flu shot if you'd rather take your chances without one. But those that do get it will help curb community spread while also reducing their own chances of developing long-term symptoms. And eventually, enough people will have gotten vaccinated/boosted, or gotten infected naturally, that the virus will run out of vulnerable hosts to infect. Might be another year or two away now thanks to delta, but still very much attainable. Unless you have the data, I don't think it exists that vaccinated people are protected from long COVID. It is sketchy at best right now.
August 23, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said: The thing that pisses me off. Is that it will take restrictions and/or rewards to convince some people to get theirs. I am glad to see some cities requiring people to show their cards. It could damage some businesses, but I hope it would be a very short term thing. People need to get the F-ing point. The demographic of people who refuse to get vaccinated is a lot more diverse that some politically obsessed morons try to argue. It is, but two main holdouts persist: minorities (blacks in particular) in cities that have not seen a recent COVID surge, and Trumplicans. It's worth noting that in cities where COVID has surged the black population has started to catch up on vaccinations: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/05/covid-19-vaccinations-among-latinos-blacks-rise-data-suggests/5455577001/ Orleans parish in LA for example is up to 62% with at least one shot. Orleans is 60% black. Meanwhile predominantly white parish's are still in the 40% range. (They're seeing an uptick as well, but not enough) We need to keep pulling the "vaccine hesitant" along though. The more cases that hit home, the easier it will be to convince some of the less far-gone (be they black, Trumplican, whatever). It's unfortunate that for some to be convinced they need to suffer and perhaps even lose a loved one, but this is where we're at.
August 23, 20214 yr 16 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: Unless you have the data, I don't think it exists that vaccinated people are protected from long COVID. It is sketchy at best right now. On the whole, yes. It's not 100% protection but it's still a numbers game. We absolutely have data that vaccinations reduce the chances of symptomatic disease and breakthrough infections in general, even asymptomatic ones, which still happen but aren't nearly as common as infections in unvaccinated populations. Boosters will keep higher levels of antibodies in circulation to reduce the chances of breakthroughs. It's not a big pharma ploy, there 100% is data supporting the decision. I think often times we forget that our government isn't making decisions in a vacuum. There's a reason why Israel approved boosters and it has nothing to do with improving the bottom line of an American company they have no affiliation with.
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