3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I always do me. Totally fine with that. I saw many like the deal based on Qb future options. Seemed like the main draw. Was always known Rosie would do something like it. 

Ok....I never mentioned QB options.   I said to GB to forget the QB options...could be too expensive to climb over teams that need a QB.   

But forgetting that media driven soap opera angle... getting a 3rd, 1st and 2nd was too good to pass up. Saints were desperate. 

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

The opponent isn't defending that part.   I call those other things what people have to talk about when there isn't much else besides the running. It makes an even better story due to the guy that was here before him.   

I actually think the whole league is very much defending against these things. Think our team is stronger very much because of these things. But not just Hurts. Kelce. BG. I think this was huge fir our SB win. So many of these. I just keep calling it intangibles. Team chemistry. Hunger and fight to not give up. Work ethic. Leadership.

Does Tom Brady just have the strongest arm? I think he’s loaded with this stuff too. He makes players better.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Think we’ve both been guilty of some of this. 

You do this every time.   You bring up all the faults in our OL....I ask whose line would you prefer over ours, you don't answer.

You give this trade back scenario.  I ask who you would give up the picks from the Saints for and you don't answer.  Constantly doing this. I address the specific questions all the time...that's normal conversation. 

11 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

You don't blame Hurts for anything.    The Giants game last year he was absolutely awful.  Dumb decisions, basically the reason we didn't put up points all game..  your focus was on a drop by Reagor...all you could talk about was praising him for sucking for 59:45...but then making one throw at the end. 

So ... 3 picks for one is nothing special? 

Ward dropped a TD. But yes, Hurts was clutch. Did what we needed to win. Reagor dropped two game Winners. Sure all game problems. But nothing ever bigger than just blowing it at the end. That’s sports. A fumble in the first quarter sucks. A fumble in overtime game killing.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I actually think the whole league is very much defending against these things. Think our team is stronger very much because of these things. But not just Hurts. Kelce. BG. I think this was huge fir our SB win. So many of these. I just keep calling it intangibles. Team chemistry. Hunger and fight to not give up. Work ethic. Leadership.

Does Tom Brady just have the strongest arm? I think he’s loaded with this stuff too. He makes players better.

So do you defend Kelce's speech with cover 2 or cover 3?  3/4 or 4/3 front?  Dime,  nickel...blitz???? 

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So let's talk in 5 years... I bet we see an article about Howies best trades or something like best Eagles trades...etc.  I'll call it... this Saints trade will be viewed as one of the top ones.   I'll also say the Wentz trade will be up there.  I like the Dolphins trade too.   The trade in 2008 that landed us Jason Peters was good.

But for sure Saints trade will be there.

See now you really missing things. Because you too focused on winning the draft wars. Gotta get good players. It’s terrible if he picks a bust with the pick next year. No way to spin it otherwise.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Ward dropped a TD. But yes, Hurts was clutch. Did what we needed to win. Reagor dropped two game Winners. Sure all game problems. But nothing ever bigger than just blowing it at the end. That’s sports. A fumble in the first quarter sucks. A fumble in overtime game killing.

Multiple mistakes are always bigger than one.  Still now you don't criticize him...you just can't do it...you aren't objective at all with him.  

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ham...nobody argues that very obvious point.  But you keep skipping over multiple vs one guy.    As I say, you do this constantly. 

Nah I can see the differences. But you skipping it’s about talent. Also we are a new team. Need our new guys in for the new schemes. Building something here.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

See now you really missing things. Because you too focused on winning the draft wars. Gotta get good players. It’s terrible if he picks a bust with the pick next year. No way to spin it otherwise.

Again...  I've been consistently saying... picking the right players is different than " filling needs" getting value...etc.  

Two weeks before the draft all you can do is win trades on paper.  You can't pick players until draft night. 

But you can always believe in trading back. Always get multiple instead of one. Just not the way to go always. Sorry. Sometimes even trade up. Like Davis. Or trade for vet like AJ. Gave up multiple fir one. I’m fine with those moves.

8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

You do this every time.   You bring up all the faults in our OL....I ask whose line would you prefer over ours, you don't answer.

You give this trade back scenario.  I ask who you would give up the picks from the Saints for and you don't answer.  Constantly doing this. I address the specific questions all the time...that's normal conversation. 

I disagree. Feel I answer you. You dodge constantly. Don’t even answer plenty of times. Not giving you that. I’ve addressed pretty much every post.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Nah I can see the differences. But you skipping it’s about talent. Also we are a new team. Need our new guys in for the new schemes. Building something here.

So again... 2 points.  You keep saying "studs" when it comes to this draft.   But in 2023 you make it seen like pick 11 is going to be a scrub!

And second...what are we building with...Cox, Hargrave, Slay, Bradbery, White, Graham...etc.   It isn't building.. it needs to be retooled.  Any safety or defensive player you wanted to draft us going to be playing with mostly new guys going forward.   

If you are building. Getting more pieces is better.

8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So do you defend Kelce's speech with cover 2 or cover 3?  3/4 or 4/3 front?  Dime,  nickel...blitz???? 

Gotta have it all. Can’t just Lions coach everything. 

4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But you can always believe in trading back. Always get multiple instead of one. Just not the way to go always. Sorry. Sometimes even trade up. Like Davis. Or trade for vet like AJ. Gave up multiple fir one. I’m fine with those moves.

I'm fine too...like both moves very much. Both key pieces of the puzzle for me...#1 WR and first line of defense. 

7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Multiple mistakes are always bigger than one.  Still now you don't criticize him...you just can't do it...you aren't objective at all with him.  

I disagree. I’ve acknowledged things against him. I’m fairly balanced. I’ll admit with most talk so focused on blaming him I do it less than I would otherwise. So I do feel I don’t have enough freedom to complain about him because it’s been such the convo here. So overkilled that I find it harder to bash him. 

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Gotta have it all. Can’t just Lions coach everything. 

So which is it.... " it's the whole darn team "  ...they counter with cover 2 or what? What will Todd Bowles do to defend that ?

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I disagree. I’ve acknowledged things against him. I’m fairly balanced. I’ll admit with most talk so focused on blaming him I do it less than I would otherwise. So I do feel I don’t have enough freedom to complain about him because it’s been such the convo here. So overkilled that I find it harder to bash him. 

Name something you said against him.

I’ve definitely pointed out Hurts mistakes before. I do this. I’m fairly objective I think. I can see it all and still be fair. 

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I disagree. I’ve acknowledged things against him. I’m fairly balanced. I’ll admit with most talk so focused on blaming him I do it less than I would otherwise. So I do feel I don’t have enough freedom to complain about him because it’s been such the convo here. So overkilled that I find it harder to bash him. 

Like say something tangible...a specific play .   Not overall " he needs to show more poise or something theory "...give me a tangible...specific criticism of a play or something.  You don't do it....ever.

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I'm fine too...like both moves very much. Both key pieces of the puzzle for me...#1 WR and first line of defense. 

But we gave up multiple for one each time.

Btw...can I just ask.  The team is 10-1... the only loss our WRs fumbled and the defense couldn't get off the field...

And I say this respectfully...

WTF are people blaming Hurts for????

What conversations are you having where people are " blaming" Hurts? But you are " objective"  ???   

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’ve definitely pointed out Hurts mistakes before. I do this. I’m fairly objective I think. I can see it all and still be fair. 

I just ask for an example 

I’ve said Hurts isn’t the strongest arm. Left clean pockets early. Still learning to read defenses. Missed opened receivers. But yeah….everybody else been blaming him so much. So that’s been over covered. So yeah, I love had to point out the positives so much. Because it seems I’m the only one. So this arena forcing me more to not state all my flaws I see. Doubt and blame been so overwhelming…

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But we gave up multiple for one each time.

Did we?   So we gave up the 3rd we got from the Saints...so wasn't really multiple in the end... allowed us to keep the pick used for Dean.   Had 3 first round picks....got 2 key pieces of the puzzle,  plus multiple picks.  Probably Howie's best draft day.

How did we get Davis? Traded multiple picks. How did we get AJ? Traded multiple picks. Clearly giving up multiple for  one each time.

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Did we?   So we gave up the 3rd we got from the Saints...so wasn't really multiple in the end... allowed us to keep the pick used for Dean.   Had 3 first round picks....got 2 key pieces of the puzzle,  plus multiple picks.  Probably Howie's best draft day.

Jurgens hasn’t played. Round two. Dean hasn’t played round three. Davis limited role in one formation. Now hurt. I don’t know if this adds up.

Got another LB hasn’t really played either.