paco Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 38 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said: Eh, you need to consider the situation both guys were in. Every year of Jones’ career has been a fresh start so far. But if you want to look at just their first year as a starter, once again their stats are comparable (Jones' number are actually better and it was his first year in the league vs. Hurts' second). I know Hurts blew up this year, but when you put the two players in similar situations they’re not that different. Not sure if the "fresh start every year" angle applies. You literally compared last years numbers to Hurts first full year as a starter. And that was with a new head coach, OC, etc. It didn't get any fresher for Hurts than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, paco said: Not sure if the "fresh start every year" angle applies. You literally compared last years numbers to Hurts first full year as a starter. And that was with a new head coach, OC, etc. It didn't get any fresher for Hurts than that. That's why I made the comparison. Both players had new head coaches, OCs, etc. But ok, that gives Jones the advantage of an extra year in the league. The second comparison was year 1 Jones vs year 2 Hurts (first year as starters). Numbers are similar. Bottom line, these guys are in the same QB tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 32 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: We have a pretty good idea of what Jones is too. The argument for Jones is the one you have been making, that he needs a better roster around him, not that he's actually going to improve by leaps and bounds after 4 yrs starting. Carr is also a guy with same argument, he's never had a complete roster around him, his OLines have been sometimes even worse than the ones Nickels had played behind and yet his stats have been better by a lot. 20+ TD's in 7/8 seasons compared 1/4 for Nickels. That goes for pretty much every QB in the league, aside from maybe 1 or 2. Take away a few pieces from the Philly offense and we're looking at 2021 Hurts and a 10 win team. Carr has had a rough go, no doubt, but I'm not sure any QB in the league has had to overcome the combination of OL and pass catching challenges that Jones has faced. If they have, they certainly didn't make the playoffs and win a game. If we're talking stats, you can't ignore what Jones does with his feet (the same way it's considered for Jackson and Hurts). That's why Jones had a higher QBR in 2022. They have similar career completion %s. All this said, I really like both Carr and Hurts. You can win with these guys. I just happen to think that Jones is in the same QB tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike030270 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 18 hours ago, BKLYNYG said: The Hurts narrative is funny. In 2021 he was a middle of the pack QB. Everyone in Philly was ready to dump him. In 2022 he has the best OL in the league by a large margin and probably the best pass catching duo as well (pretty good TE too) and he takes off. Let’s see what happens when the Birds give him $50M+ and that roster goes from elite to mid. He played like crap in 2021 🤷♂️. Made a hell of a leap and played great in 2022. Eagles usually have a top 5 Oline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: He played like crap in 2021 🤷♂️. Made a hell of a leap and played great in 2022. Eagles usually have a top 5 Oline That’s what threw me off about the "then he was surrounded by elite talent”. They swapped out Reagor for AJ Brown. That’s it. Unless Zach Pascal became elite and I missed it. Yeah, he got one HELL of a receiver to throw to this last year, but that doesn’t explain all of the strides he made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: He played like crap in 2021 🤷♂️. Made a hell of a leap and played great in 2022. Eagles usually have a top 5 Oline If the Eagles continue to have a top 5 OL then Hurts will continue to dominate, no argument there. He runs the RPO to perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike030270 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, BKLYNYG said: If the Eagles continue to have a top 5 OL then Hurts will continue to dominate, no argument there. He runs the RPO to perfection. Stoutland is GOAT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, paco said: That’s what threw me off about the "then he was surrounded by elite talent”. They swapped out Reagor for AJ Brown. That’s it. Unless Zach Pascal became elite and I missed it. Yeah, he got one HELL of a receiver to throw to this last year, but that doesn’t explain all of the strides he made. You OL was better as well. There was some injuries in 2021, but in 2022 that unit was intact for the majority of the year. It's the difference between a top 10 OL and the hands down best in the league. Combine that with Brown, improvement from Smith and absolutely some improvement from Hurts and the leap can be easily explained. These comments aren't coming from a Hurts hater, but someone that's jealous of how well that team was constructed. But they screwed the pooch and now they're doooomed!!! 😈 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike030270 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said: You OL was better as well. There was some injuries in 2021, but in 2022 that unit was intact for the majority of the year. It's the difference between a top 10 OL and the hands down best in the league. Combine that with Brown, improvement from Smith and absolutely some improvement from Hurts and the leap can be easily explained. These comments aren't coming from a Hurts hater, but someone that's jealous of how well that team was constructed. But they screwed the pooch and now they're doooomed!!! 😈 What's funny is a lot of us (Eagles fans) wanted Howie gone for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: What's funny is a lot of us (Eagles fans) wanted Howie gone for years I've been on some variation of this board for over 20 years and it's one thing I could never explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawkins4prez Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 On 3/9/2023 at 2:15 PM, BKLYNYG said: I've been on some variation of this board for over 20 years and it's one thing I could never explain. Oh we'll be calling for his head 3 years from now again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaBeach_Eagle Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 @BKLYNYG I haven't read through the thread, but what's the general thought among Giants fans on Jones' new contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: @BKLYNYG I haven't read through the thread, but what's the general thought among Giants fans on Jones' new contract? I’m happy and Giants fans overall are very happy. The contract is not exorbitant, will look like a bargain after the next crop of QBs is signed, and there’s outs in 2 years if he underperforms. Guy played well last year with nothing around him. Fans are excited to see what he can do with NFL caliber receiving options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaBeach_Eagle Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 4 hours ago, BKLYNYG said: I’m happy and Giants fans overall are very happy. The contract is not exorbitant, will look like a bargain after the next crop of QBs is signed, and there’s outs in 2 years if he underperforms. Guy played well last year with nothing around him. Fans are excited to see what he can do with NFL caliber receiving options. Where do you all draft this year? You made the playoffs, so it's in the lower half of the draft (mid 20's?). So I guess getting him locked up for a couple of years was the best option. I wonder if they'd have still made the deal had you been in the top 5. But then again, I don't know what QB's are available this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 20 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: Where do you all draft this year? You made the playoffs, so it's in the lower half of the draft (mid 20's?). So I guess getting him locked up for a couple of years was the best option. I wonder if they'd have still made the deal had you been in the top 5. But then again, I don't know what QB's are available this year. We’re at 25 and none of the QBs in this years draft are can’t miss Luck-type prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTW Posted April 20, 2023 Author Share Posted April 20, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 Just imagine being a Giants fan and seeing those numbers… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 On 4/20/2023 at 2:09 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said: Just imagine being a Giants fan and seeing those numbers… You guys really don't understand how contracts work... 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 49 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said: You guys really don't understand how contracts work... 😆 Umm please explain that comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: Umm please explain that comment. He will never count 40M and 56M against the cap. If he sucks he'll be cut after year two. If he's great he'll be restructured and extended. See how KC has been using the Mahomes contract. The Hurts contract has way more guaranteed money (and a no trade clause!) than the Jones contract. You guys just kicked the can down the road a bit further because the Eagles have way less cap space than the Giants in the near term ($58M vs $115M in 2024). You're also benefiting from the final year of the current contract (2nd round pick). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 1 hour ago, BKLYNYG said: He will never count 40M and 56M against the cap. If he sucks he'll be cut after year two. If he's great he'll be restructured and extended. See how KC has been using the Mahomes contract. The Hurts contract has way more guaranteed money (and a no trade clause!) than the Jones contract. You guys just kicked the can down the road a bit further because the Eagles have way less cap space than the Giants in the near term ($58M vs $115M in 2024). You're also benefiting from the final year of the current contract (2nd round pick). Look at his cap numbers and they are a lot higher than hurts! For a player nowhere near as good. And guess what… Hurts will restructure before the big numbers kick in. I’m not sure the Giants organisation is in a position to critique the eagles cap situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: Look at his cap numbers and they are a lot higher than hurts! For a player nowhere near as good. And guess what… Hurts will restructure before the big numbers kick in. I’m not sure the Giants organisation is in a position to critique the eagles cap situation. Yawn. You’re a nice guy, but clearly out of your depth here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 12 hours ago, BKLYNYG said: Yawn. You’re a nice guy, but clearly out of your depth here. Ok sure. Great contract to Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 Love this A’Shawn Robinson signing. Those Eagle QB sneaks are gonna result in some epic trench battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLYNYG Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Giants and Eagles did well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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