EMB Blog: 2021 Regular and Post Season

[Utebird]

16 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Ward got plenty of snaps for the #4 WR.  I liked that.  I was surprised at no offensive snaps for Scott and the limited amount of throws to the RBs.  But I also believe that there are aspects of the offense we haven’t seen yet.  

I was surprised Boston Scott didn't get any snaps especially after having a good camp and Pre season 

I imagine at done point hell get some touches,seems the coaches really like Gainwell and Gainwell did, well.

 

[BigEFly]

8 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Ward played 14 snaps I believe.  He had no targets.  I've been a Greg Ward supporter his whole time here.  I know you're a big fan of both Scott and Ward but if you don't have to rely on those 2 guys like the Eagles had to last year then that's a great thing.

I want Smith catching 7-9 balls a game.  Reagor 5-6.  Watkins 4.  TE's should get about 6-8 targets while the RB should get around 5-7.

I think having Hurts run the ball about 4 times seems safe if they are smart about it and then another 20-22 carries for the RB.  15-17 for Sanders and 5-7 for Gainwell.  

Those are your guys.  That's who I want getting the ball.  Sure there are going to be times that Ward, Scott, JJAW, Stoll get the ball assuming the rest are healthy, there shouldn't be relied on like the past.  

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying about favoring the better WRs and RBs.  What I am saying is I like the way that Sirianni, Gannon and Clay used all the players.  And at some point, JJAW, Ward, Stoll are going to catch a defender playing them that cannot cover them. And we will see Nick take advantage of that.  You could see how Gannon changed the D around a bit to counter Atlanta’s area of success. I fully expect to see wrinkles for all of the players as the season goes on.  I think we scratched the surface of the offense and defense last Sunday. 

[Texas Eagle]

7 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Chase? Von Miller?  Sweat?  Bosa’s  brother, Bosa? I like Nick Bosa but has he made it all the way back from his injury? 

I think a healthy Nick Bosa is as good as any of them (or close to it).  Maybe Chase is a notch above. Good call out.

[Texas Eagle]

If we end up with 3 1st round picks, I don't see us making 3 selections. A trade would likely happen to move up, for a player, or for future capital right? Would be very tough to re-sign all 3 players in 2026.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

If we end up with 3 1st round picks, I don't see us making 3 selections. A trade would likely happen to move up, for a player, or for future capital right? Would be very tough to re-sign all 3 players in 2026.

You'd think so yeah. Go up and get one of the top OL, DL or even CBs in the draft? I guess it depends where we are picking too but yeah I'd be surprised if they made all 3 picks in the first. 

[Khani1]

1 minute ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

If we end up with 3 1st round picks, I don't see us making 3 selections. A trade would likely happen to move up, for a player, or for future capital right? Would be very tough to re-sign all 3 players in 2026.

Not disagreeing with your philosophy but that does not necessarily mean we don't draft 3 in the 1st.  It is possible to use 1 of those players in a trade in the second to last or last year of their contract to get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for them.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

If we end up with 3 1st round picks, I don't see us making 3 selections. A trade would likely happen to move up, for a player, or for future capital right? Would be very tough to re-sign all 3 players in 2026.

It is not about re signing them in 2026, it is about signing them in 2022.

Eagles currently have 9 million in 2022 cap space with 36 players under contract.  Basing it off the 2021 numbers, if we had the 5th, 15th and 25th pick, the cap hit for 2022 would be 11.1 million.  So we currently do not have the room to sign 3 first rounders, and that would only get us to 39 players under contract.  Then you have to sign the rest of the draft class.

Yes, I understand we have 9 million to roll over, and this is before the Cox extension and Mailata extension are figured in.  Be curious to see where the Eagles are after those are updated on OTC.

[Texas Eagle]

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Draft and trades are rare.  Especially in the first.  I think they trade down to acquire more future picks. 

I think he meant to trade them in year 3

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

It is not about re signing them in 2026, it is about signing them in 2022.

Eagles currently have 9 million in 2022 cap space with 36 players under contract.  Basing it off the 2021 numbers, if we had the 5th, 15th and 25th pick, the cap hit for 2022 would be 11.1 million.  So we currently do not have the room to sign 3 first rounders, and that would only get us to 39 players under contract.  Then you have to sign the rest of the draft class.

Yes, I understand we have 9 million to roll over, and this is before the Cox extension and Mailata extension are figured in.  Be curious to see where the Eagles are after those are updated on OTC.

I'm very curious to see the '22 and '23 cap numbers with the extensions and projected total cap number increasing

[Alphagrand]

9 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

If we end up with 3 1st round picks, I don't see us making 3 selections. A trade would likely happen to move up, for a player, or for future capital right? Would be very tough to re-sign all 3 players in 2026.

Depends where the players are drafted:

#1 overall Trevor Lawrence -- 4 yrs at $36.8M = $9.2M AAV

#5 overall Ja'Marr Chase -- 4 yrs at $31M = $7.5M+ AAV

#10 overall Devonta Smith -- 4 yrs at $20.1M = $5M AAV

#15 overall Mac Jones -- 4 yrs at $15.6M = $3.9M AAV

#22 overall Caleb Farley -- 4 yrs at $13.5M = $3.4M AAV

 

If we assume the Eagles 3 picks would be somewhere around #12, 15, 19 (just a guess) trading up isn't going to save much money, if any.

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

I think he meant to trade them in year 3

I'm very curious to see the '22 and '23 cap numbers with the extensions and projected total cap number increasing

2022 cap projections are based on the 208.2 million cap ceiling that was announced earlier this year.  The cap may not be that high, but the NFL has already stated that 208.2 million would be the max.

All 2023 projections are based on the 225 million cap projection.

[DEagle7]

16 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

If we end up with 3 1st round picks, I don't see us making 3 selections. A trade would likely happen to move up, for a player, or for future capital right? Would be very tough to re-sign all 3 players in 2026.

If Howie is still in charge of drafting that shouldn't be a problem 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Depends where the players are drafted:

#1 overall Trevor Lawrence -- 4 yrs at $36.8M = $9.2M AAV

#5 overall Ja'Marr Chase -- 4 yrs at $31M = $7.5M+ AAV

#10 overall Devonta Smith -- 4 yrs at $20.1M = $5M AAV

#15 overall Mac Jones -- 4 yrs at $15.6M = $3.9M AAV

#22 overall Caleb Farley -- 4 yrs at $13.5M = $3.4M AAV

 

If we assume the Eagles 3 picks would be somewhere around #12, 15, 19 (just a guess) trading up isn't going to save much money, if any.

 

Either way, looking at approx 10-11 million whether we use 2 or 3 first rounders if we have one in the top 5

[ManuManu]

 

[Texas Eagle]

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

Depends where the players are drafted:

#1 overall Trevor Lawrence -- 4 yrs at $36.8M = $9.2M AAV

#5 overall Ja'Marr Chase -- 4 yrs at $31M = $7.5M+ AAV

#10 overall Devonta Smith -- 4 yrs at $20.1M = $5M AAV

#15 overall Mac Jones -- 4 yrs at $15.6M = $3.9M AAV

#22 overall Caleb Farley -- 4 yrs at $13.5M = $3.4M AAV

 

If we assume the Eagles 3 picks would be somewhere around #12, 15, 19 (just a guess) trading up isn't going to save much money, if any.

 

Only way we trade up to top 5 would likely be for Kayvon or Stingley, but more likely Kayvon. Of course we have to see how Hurts pans out. I would venture to guess we don't end up with a top 10 pick by default positioning of any of the 3.

[DEagle7]

Guy's an introvert. Feel like that's kinda unusual for high end WRs. Don't hate the "stay home and watch film" angle. 

[Utebird]

11 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Depends where the players are drafted:

#1 overall Trevor Lawrence -- 4 yrs at $36.8M = $9.2M AAV

#5 overall Ja'Marr Chase -- 4 yrs at $31M = $7.5M+ AAV

#10 overall Devonta Smith -- 4 yrs at $20.1M = $5M AAV

#15 overall Mac Jones -- 4 yrs at $15.6M = $3.9M AAV

#22 overall Caleb Farley -- 4 yrs at $13.5M = $3.4M AAV

 

If we assume the Eagles 3 picks would be somewhere around #12, 15, 19 (just a guess) trading up isn't going to save much money, if any.

 

Trade down, for players, or for future picks.

[EaglePhan1986]

49 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Hate?  They played a big roll in the 2019 run and made some memorable plays.

But they are also limited.  Why not try to raise the bar at RB2 and WR3?

Totally agree but to call them jags is ridiculous 

[eglz1]

23 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Draft and trades are rare.  Especially in the first.  I think they trade down to acquire more future picks. 

Trade down to the lower rounds where Howie listens to his scouts.

[EaglePhan1986]

46 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You misinterpret.  There's no hate, there is recognizing them for what they are and have been.  They have been miscast as major contributors for an NFL team.  They are not that guy.  They are just a guy.  They are desperation level players where if the team has to rely on them to win games, you are in survival desperation mode.   Think about it... when did they come on to the scene?  They came on to the scene at the end of the 2019 season, when everything was going down the tubes, and this team turned to them and turned it around... by beating the dreck of the NFC East to win the division and make the playoffs.   Then they got a bigger role for all of 2020.  4 wins.  Yes, there were lots of other factors, but when you are relying on these players to 'make plays', you are in a bad way.  Comparing them to players like Robert Davis or Deontay Burnett makes them look like giants!  But, that's because those guys have NO BUSINESS on an NFL roster, including PS, frankly.  Scott and Ward are great PS players, and they are players that you can plug in in a desperate situation and they can make a couple plays here and there.  But, there's no DC that will be kept up about matching up with them, or defensive player that has a moment's hesitation about having to cover them/tackle them.   They are guys that you can go around the NFL and grab another #4 WR or #3 RB and flip them and lose nothing. And putting them in roles of #3 WR (Ward was the leading receiver last year, btw) and #2 RB is just setting the team up for failure.  They are JAGs.  No hate, just an acknowledgement.   Then, you see the frustration that some folks have with the organization for not upgrading them and trotting them out like they did in 2020 and telling us that they were not JAGs.  The animosity is with Howie, et al, not with the players themselves.   I'd love to watch a game with Greg Ward and Boston Scott.  I just don't love watching them in the game being counted on to make plays consistently.  

I’m not reading all that but to me a jag is that RG who played for us one game last year and was so bad he got cut the next day. Or a 2nd round WR who’s best trait is run blocking. 

[Iggles_Phan]

3 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I’m not reading all that but to me a jag is that RG who played for us one game last year and was so bad he got cut the next day. Or a 2nd round WR who’s best trait is run blocking. 

Sorry, that's not a lot to read.   It's not possible to have an intelligent conversation, if you can't read an argument. 

But, what you just defined is a grocery clerk, not a JAG in the NFL.  A JAG in the NFL belongs in the NFL, but as a minor role player who gets elevated on occasion as desperation sets in.  A JAG is not a guy who has no business being on the field, like Jamon Brown.   JJAW elevated his game this year to JAG status.  Before then, he was also a guy who doesn't belong on the field.  At this point, he is actually making positive impact or neutral impact, not negative impact.  

If you wish to engage in a conversation, let me know.

[Captain F]

If they end up with 3 First's id like to see...

#1 Best DB available

#2 BPA

#3 - Trade down and pick up a 1st in 2023...  

[Mike030270]

23 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Guy's an introvert. Feel like that's kinda unusual for high end WRs. Don't hate the "stay home and watch film" angle. 

Seems like less chance he gets in trouble off the field. Stays home and studies the game. Love it

[BigEFly]

45 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I'm only talking about rotation on offense.  I'm perfectly find with rotating fresh d-lineman in to the game.  

I'm fine rotating just 2 RB.  You also have to look at when they rotate in and out.  There's using your substitutions wisely and the rotating just for the sake of it.  It just felt much more natural the way they used Sanders and Gainwell on Sunday.  It helps keep the rhythm going too.  In the past it felt like there was a new player in on every single play.  

In 2020, Boston Scott played 34% of the plays and Greg Ward played 70%.  That's too much for both of them but the Eagles didn't have much choice. They Eagles have better players now.  I'm not taking away from either of them.  They can both serve a role, but it should be minimal.  Play your best players.  

I have consistently said I thought Ward was a #4 or #5 WR.  I don’t accept that at three years of playing WR he has maxed out his capabilities because of his work ethic.  16 snaps is about it.  I disagree a bit with my esteemed colleague @Iggles_Phan that you can go around the league and find a Greg Ward to plug in at #4. Some #4 WRs are better than Ward, no doubt.  But his hands and route running are not that easy to find. (See Hightower or Fulgham, for example)..he should be a player that is always in threat of an upgrade.  70% of the plays and leading the team in receptions is way too much.  

I agree that 34% of the snaps are too much for Scott.  But used like Sproles should have been used? Change of pace guy with a low center of gravity and good speed that can hide behind the OL.  And his hands are better than Sproles. Against Grady Jarrett, not so much which is why we probably didn’t see him at all last week. I like the threesome the Eagles have but they can always upgrade.  I would like a true big back to supplement but those big backs that can get skinny in the hole and have power and a bit of burst are hard to find.  Howard, for example does not run with power.

But 70% for Ward, 34% for Scott point to the problem of relying on the stars or next man up mentality alone. Ward is not a replacement for Smith, never should be.  Rather, I think roles as opposed to plug and play fit what Sirianni may be doing.  He says it. I agree the better the player, the bigger the role but hopefully not a dependent role where injury loss derails the season. It is rather if a player goes down, not plugging in his replacement with the expectation that player is going to do the same thing.  Reich, Flip and Doug demonstrated that by changing the offense in 2017 to fit Foles, not to plug him in as Carson.  I like that all these players are getting some playing time and having roles.  It is also more difficult to defend.  Double team Cox, then the other OL better be able to handle Hargrave, Williams, Sweat, Barnett,  Graham and Kerrigan one on one.  Heck, we saw threat from Ridgeway last Sunday.  Same approach with the skill set offensive players.  Double Smith, best cover LB on Goedert? Other corner on Reagor?  Better account for whoever else is in, be it one of the three RBs, Ertz, Watkins, Ward or even JJAW or Stoll. Complements.   I have faith until proven different that there will be designs that fit all those players in their roles.  Favor the better skill players, absolutely but not to the point of exclusion of all others.

[DEagle7]

What we do with 3 first round picks has to depend on what Hurts does no?  If he crashes and burns I could see consolidating to nab a QB. If he's wishy washy then I can see hedging our bets and using them for future draft capital in what could be a better QB class. If he establishes himself as the guy and we look like a competitive team then maneuver however you need to to get BPA. 

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I have consistently said I thought Ward was a #4 or #5 WR.  I don’t accept that at three years of playing WR he has maxed out his capabilities because of his work ethic.  16 snaps is about it.  I disagree a bit with my esteemed colleague @Iggles_Phan that you can go around the league and find a Greg Ward to plug in at #4. Some #4 WRs are better than Ward, no doubt.  But his hands and route running are not that easy to find. (See Hightower or Fulgham, for example)..he should be a player that is always in threat of an upgrade.  70% of the plays and leading the team in receptions is way too much.  

I can't argue about Ward vs. Hightower and Fulgham.  There's a reason they are on the PS and Ward is on the roster.  So, we are in agreement there.

Decided to test my hypothesis on just finding a #4 WR that would fit in just as well as Ward on other NFL rosters.   Checked Texans and Lions for reference... randomly selected bad teams.   

Texans - #4 WR is Anthony Miller. 
Lions - #4 WR is Quintez Cephus. 

Granted, neither is a return guy... then again, frankly, neither is Ward.  But, I'd take either one of them over Ward, but I think its fair to say that this team wouldn't really be losing anything in making the swap.