18 minutes ago, DireWolf said:

Little woulda shoulda coulda though 

Shut up Shocker 

6 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Did anybody ever have a better arm than Jeff George?

Maybe Kyle Boller....but that ain't saying much. 

@Mike31mt a badly under thrown ball.  He had to throw it 60 yards, didn't even get it 55.  If you are going to blame it on mechanics, then that tells you he lacks arm strengths.  NFL arm strength means you can make that throw on the move without a perfect base.

 

8 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Did anybody ever have a better arm than Jeff George?

 

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Maybe Kyle Boller....but that ain't saying much. 

Josh Allen.....................

 

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

Josh Allen.....................

 

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/josh-allen-hits-crossbar-throwing-from-knees-50-yards-away-is-not-shying-away-from-kyle-boller-comparisons-01dxjxcwc78y

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

@Mike31mt a badly under thrown ball.  He had to throw it 60 yards, didn't even get it 55.  If you are going to blame it on mechanics, then that tells you he lacks arm strengths.  NFL arm strength means you can make that throw on the move without a perfect base.

 

I think the point would be if he gets his feet set sooner and throws that ball sooner to the same distance and location there's a better chance of a completion.  A stronger arm doesn't make that pass more likely to be complete.  A quicker throw does.  

I mean a lot of QBs had insanely strong arms, I don't know how you could ever determine who had the strongest. George, Boller, Allen, Vick, Jamarcus Russell, etc. 

There were stories of Favre routinely breaking his WR's fingers he threw so hard. It certainly isn't a make or break thing for a QB, but it can certainly cover up some deficiencies. At the end of the day, Hurts doesn't belong in the strong armed group of QBs. 

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I mean a lot of QBs had insanely strong arms, I don't know how you could ever determine who had the strongest. George, Boller, Allen, Vick, Jamarcus Russell, etc. 

Somewhere chad Pennington is crying lol

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Somewhere chad Pennington is crying lol

Lol, there's a guy who had to be perfect in every other capacity at QB. And to his credit, he was pretty good at the mental part of the game. If you could combine Cutler's arm with Pennington's mind, you woulda had a HOFer. 

8 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think the point would be if he gets his feet set sooner and throws that ball sooner to the same distance and location there's a better chance of a completion.  A stronger arm doesn't make that pass more likely to be complete.  A quicker throw does.  

But why did he not throw it quicker, because his lack of arm strength means he had to go through all of the set up to be able to plant and set his base to throw it that far.  

17 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Actually I just realized they ran the Philly, Philly yesterday. It wasn't even the Philly Special. 

Sirianni can't even pander to the fans correctly!

Ya sure about that?

There's different facets to arm strength, not just how far you can throw it.  When Hurts had time to set his feet and was in rhythm he made a couple nice deep throws to Watkins and Reagor.  On the move, or having to step up a bit in the pocket and reset his feet, not so much.  However, as I_P pointed out, there are different types of deep ball throws.  Some can throw deep while keeping a low trajectory giving the DB less time to react and make a play.  Hurts put a good amount of air under his ball thus giving a DB more time to make a play on it, so his timing on/of the throw needs to be damned near perfect.  So he had ample arm strength to make deep throws, he just needs everything else to fall into place for it to be a complete-able pass where others can chuck it on the run or hop up in the pocket and still sling it 55+ downfield without their feet being fully set.  Hurts isn't that guy.  So timing in this O is going to be very important.

Another aspect of a strong arm is can he make a throw from the far hash to the sideline in a tight window?  Can he put the ball on a frozen rope over one defender and under/around another to the WR?  He made a nice throw to Goedert for the TD vs ATL.  That's really the only one like that I've seen from him so far. 

What bothers me, and others, is his lack of throwing over the middle.  This is where you require those zip throws where you're throwing over one defender into a tight window.  Two games so far and our O is ignoring 1/3 of the field.  That makes your O more easy to defend.  At some point he is going to have to start using the middle of the field, especially when we have 2 TEs who are supposed to be really good.  If you're not going to throw to the middle of the field then you're rending them nearly useless.  The question is, why are we not throwing into the middle of the field?  Is it because he doesn't have the arm strength to make those zip throws or because he can't read/see the whole field well enough?  Either way it's a big problem and until he starts throwing to the middle of the field then I can't say he's a long term starting NFL QB.  A good solid starting NFL QB can throw to ALL parts of the field.  So far, he can't.  Why?

 

11 minutes ago, jwill2420 said:

Ya sure about that?

He does a better job pandering to the fan base then the Phillies do beating bad teams

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think his arm strength is adequate in the grand scheme of things, but he needs to get better in a lot of areas for his arm to play up. He won’t have a big enough arm to throw off his back foot downfield or when he’s late in progressions in all likelihood. 

He needs to be better with anticipation and speeding through or getting into secondary progressions. 

With that I agree

I had all the same worries about Hurts as everyone else.  But I dont see some weak-armed QB

I see a guy who's relying on the first read, and if he has to go to #2 hes frequently late and so his timing is off.   

Lets at least let him get a seasons-worth of games under his belt with the new system and receivers.

And hey I would have loved to see a competition between he and Minshew, just so no one gets it twisted

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

He does a better job pandering to the fan base then the Phillies do beating bad teams

The best way to win over the fans is to.....WIN.

And give good effort.  Play hard, give it your all, bust your ass and even if you don't win most of the time you'll still be respected.

 

@Mike31mt this is the kind of throw we are talking about with arm strength.  1st one in the video, Tom Brady, flushed, off platform, and throws a 25 yard dart into a tight window.

 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

@Mike31mt this is the kind of throw we are talking about with arm strength.  1st one in the video, Tom Brady, flushed, off platform, and throws a 25 yard dart into a tight window.

 

Yeah, but does he have that Brucie swag?

1 hour ago, Mike31mt said:

No Im saying case closed because it is a logical fact that his arm is adequately strong. 

There is no argument to be made based on the fact that QBs with substantially weaker arms have thrived in the NFL

Logically, you can absolutely cross that off the list and move on to things like footwork, knowledge of the offense, familiarity with his recievers, etc.

 

Youre making this some mystical, nebulous discussion "arm talent throws" that you cant even define because you know his arm is strong enough

To say that Peyton Manning could make throws that Hurts cant is laughable.  What he could do is identify the correct read and make the throw way earlier than Hurts.   That's the discussion, not arm strength

Maybe he does have the arm strength but he can't handle reading the field, anticipating the route, judging distance, minding his mechanics and deciding how and when to throw the ball all at the same time.  Yes he can throw a rainbow 50 yards but we haven't seen him throw on a rope over 20 yards without it quacking.

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

So we should take what you say as "logical fact".  But what others say as "mystical and nebulous".  

 

Yes, Peyton Manning in his prime can make throws that Hurts can't.  I can't imagine anyone would argue that.  But here you are.  If you can't realize the difference between having a strong enough arm to chuck the ball 50 yards down the field verse firing a rocket  DOWNFIELD into tight windows,  from the pocket.  Then I guess we would agree that it's a logical fact that Jake Plummer has an adequately strong arm.  

The number 1 determining throw on adequacy of arm strength is a mid or deep out route, a throw Hurts can't make.

@Mike31mt 1:24 of this video, 25 yard dart right down the seam.  Hurts either can not due to arm strength, or the coaches don't believe due to arm strength he can make these throws.

Arm strength is not just about throwing it really far.  It is about quick set and throwing darts into tight windows.

 

 

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

This is still moronic

it ignores all the weak armed qbs that have failed in the league. And its lots of them

 

Chad Pennington had a nice career dude!

41 minutes ago, downundermike said:

@Mike31mt a badly under thrown ball.  He had to throw it 60 yards, didn't even get it 55.  If you are going to blame it on mechanics, then that tells you he lacks arm strengths.  NFL arm strength means you can make that throw on the move without a perfect base.

 

I understand what you're saying but IMO the issue is that he was late to identify that read.

His 91 yarder to Quez was about the same distance in air yards and he put it on a dime.  We can reasonably conclude that he is well-capable of making the throw above accurately and on time.

The difference IMO is that he was ready for the throw to Quez and not ready for the the one to Devonta.  He did his little stutter steps as he realized "oh ish, hes open"

Like Westbrook said, he should have recognized immediately that it was there.

Can arm strength make up for that a little bit?  Sure.  But that doesn't mean Hurts' arm isn't strong enough, and that's what people are saying

Like Orlovkeys tweet--to me it doesnt make sense.  They more need to get Hurts up to speed to make his reads, not alter their game plan because they know he cant sling it 70 yards while fading away.  No one game plans for that stuff.

3 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

The difference IMO is that he was ready for the throw to Quez and not ready for the the one to Devonta.  He did his little stutter steps as he realized "oh ish, hes open"

That is the definition of lack of arm strength.  His mechanics have to be perfect to throw it that far.  Mahommes or Allen would have put that ball on him while still on the move.

To me eye, Hurts' issue with the deep ball is more related to mechanics than arm strength. I remember McNabb struggling at times with that as well and nobody doubted his arm strength. In fact, I think it was when we signed Jeff Blake that McNabb remarked how Blake helped him with that aspect of his game. And that's not to say that you can't compensate for one with the other, because I've seen Hurts put decent heat on shorter or intermediate throws. That being said, fixing a QB's mechanics at this stage in their career is very difficult and not often successful so I don't expect much near-term improvement from Hurts when it comes to deep shots.

1 hour ago, Mike31mt said:

And herein lies the true issue

The William Wallace complex that we have as Eagles fans, after watching McNabb fall short for many years I guess...

Now no one is good enough to be "a championship level" QB as if Nick Foles and his rocket arm didn't just guide us to a SB.

Foles doesn't have a rocket but he's got an NFL arm and has demonstrated he's capable of making every throw you could ask of him.