Carson Strong (Nevada QB) -- UDFA SIGNED WITH EAGLES!

[KDUB1510]

8 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I agree.  There's no guarantee that we benefit one bit by waiting until next year.  Too many things have to fall into place after we win 8 or 9 games and land outside of the top 15 picks.  For that matter, we give up rebuilding resources (that everyone seems to covet this year) to chase a QB.  We can improve our current situation this year with any number of QBs and see where it takes us.  They don't have to be "elite" to improve our current situation.  I'll take a QB that can push the ball downfield (like Strong) over Hurts every day of the week.

This is a classic "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" situation.  Getting risky or greedy could come back to haunt us.  

Im right there with you. There's a reason you dont see me flooding the other QB threads with posts. Strong is the guy I believe could be a high caliber QB in our system. He's the one QB in this class that is stylistically like the guy Sirianni worked with most of his career(Rivers). With that said, i still think the other 5 would be an upgrade over Hurts. Strong's skillset as a passer is that of a top 10 pick. I cant tell you how many times ive seen someone say "if this were 20-30 years ago, He'd be the #1 overall pick". Would #1 pick statue esque QB's from 20-30 years ago not shred today's NFL? I think they would. If i was certain that his knee wont be an issue, id be pounding the table for us to take him with one of our 1st but i just dont know. As ive stated before, i dont expect Howie to take a QB but if we were to pick one, i think it should be Strong. 

[KDUB1510]

16 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

But the bird in the hand this year is the lowest rated bird there's been since 2013.

You and Kdub are like Howie's thinking you can outsmart the scouts and find a QB this year, Pickett is the only guy that is ready to start right now, everyone else is a project that is going to have to sit or take lumps and if Hurts has proved anything it's people like you and kDub ain't interested in QB's taking their lumps on the job.

Dont mind my QB taking lumps as long as he actually has the ability to pass the ball at a high level. I dont see that ability in Hurts. You keep bringing up the scouts as if those guys dont get it wrong EVERY YEAR. Im of the belief that "NFL readiness" has almost as much to do with the landing spot as it does the player. Trevor Lawrence was suppose to be the most NFL ready prospect since Luck. How NFL ready did he look last year? Do you think he would've looked more NFL ready had he played for the eagles rather than the Jags? I think so. I respect your opinion man, we just dont see eye to eye on this topic and that's okay.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Either way, we have to give up resources to go get someone next year and lose the rebuilding resource of those pick(s), whereas this year, we do not and can land a QB upgrade...not elite, simply an upgrade over the non-passing QB that we have.  Moving up either year is where the damage get s done.    SOme are stuck on "no one is elite this year", but we don't have to get "elite" to improve over "barely mediocre" and we keep all of our picks.  There are just too many variables to pass them if they are naturally there.   Most teams repeatedly go through the cycle to find their guy and we likely will, too..

I'll be surprised if they take a QB, but it's not as bad as some people want to make it out to be.  We can improve the position this year with Strong, Pickett, Corral, Willis, Ridder or Howell.  Not perfect, just much better than run around guy. 

This discussion is getting this topic off track.  I'm out of it.  I appreciate your opinion.

I get what you are saying... But why would we want to use valuable assets on "better than what we have but not elite"? This year we have an opportunity to add talent to a roster that desperately needs it so this is the year to truly restock the roster. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

48 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I get what you are saying... But why would we want to use valuable assets on "better than what we have but not elite"? This year we have an opportunity to add talent to a roster that desperately needs it so this is the year to truly restock the roster. 

So we should just sit around with mediocre and and wait on an elite talent? Do you get tired of having a less than SB ceiling for the team?  It's interesting, but how many teams actually find elite talent (not matter where they are picked)?  We just need to improve the position to the next level.  It's not a hard argument to understand that we need better production at the QB position and a player that opens up the full playbook.  Several of these guys offer us more opportunity than Hurts and we don't need any miracles for excessive resources to do so.   

In this hypothetical matter, I'd consider a trade back, gain a pick, and still pick up Strong late in the first...then I'd trade Hurts for a pick.  Gain two picks and gain a better QB.  

[CouchKing]

16 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

So we should just sit around with mediocre and and wait on an elite talent? Do you get tired of having a less than SB ceiling for the team?  It's interesting, but how many teams actually find elite talent (not matter where they are picked)?  We just need to improve the position to the next level.  It's not a hard argument to understand that we need better production at the QB position and a player that opens up the full playbook.  Several of these guys offer us more opportunity than Hurts and we don't need any miracles for excessive resources to do so.   

In this hypothetical matter, I'd consider a trade back, gain a pick, and still pick up Strong late in the first...then I'd trade Hurts for a pick.  Gain two picks and gain a better QB.  

I understand that we want to maximize first round talent and fill the roster.

But, if you want Strong, take him in the first round and be done with it.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

But the bird in the hand this year is the lowest rated bird there's been since 2013.

You and Kdub are like Howie's thinking you can outsmart the scouts and find a QB this year, Pickett is the only guy that is ready to start right now, everyone else is a project that is going to have to sit or take lumps and if Hurts has proved anything it's people like you and kDub ain't interested in QB's taking their lumps on the job.

Ohhh, Coochis...how wrong you are.  I have no problem with a QB learning on the job. As a matter of fact, I expect it.  I just want to start with a QB with all of the basic tools to do the job versus the erratic QB with severe limitations that we have right now.  I want the ability to open a full playbook for this passing league versus a having throwing RB with an offense designed to cover for him.  I want to recapture the lost years on the rookie contract. I want one that can stretch the field and make every throw. I want a QB that can read a defense and doesn't bail instantly from the pocket.  I want to get some value out of our current QB before he sucks again and enters his dead man walking contract year. 

So there you have it.  I have no grand illusion that these guys are "elite", but it doesn't take that to get a step forward for the team.  I want to improve the position.  We have a 3rd or 4th round talent at QB now.  Let's upgrade a notch or two.   Now, you don't have to guess anymore.

[KDUB1510]

48 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

In this hypothetical matter, I'd consider a trade back, gain a pick, and still pick up Strong late in the first...then I'd trade Hurts for a pick.  Gain two picks and gain a better QB. 

I pray Howie is thinking along the same lines. Hurts has thrown to guys like Devonta, Ridley, Jeudy, Ruggs, Waddle, OJ Howard, Irv smith, Ceedee etc & has never looked like he could be a high level passer at the NFL level. Drafting a rookie WR wont change that. I'd rather draft Strong who is 6'4 with a rocket arm, a good processor & laser accurate. I cant remember the last time ive seen a prospect with his deep ball accuracy. It's uncanny. Cochis loves to bring up what the scouts think but glosses over the scouts at Strong's pro day that said his deep ball is "Scary good", that his arm is "undoubtedly strong even by NFL standards" & compared him to Matt Ryan, who was a top 3 pick and has won an MVP in this league. Any eagle fan that says they wouldnt take a young Matt Ryan on this current team is a fool. 

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

12 minutes ago, KDUB1510 said:

I pray Howie is thinking along the same lines. Hurts has thrown to guys like Devonta, Ridley, Jeudy, Ruggs, Waddle, OJ Howard, Irv smith, Ceedee etc & has never looked like he could be a high level passer at the NFL level. Drafting a rookie WR wont change that. I'd rather draft Strong who is 6'4 with a rocket arm, a good processor & laser accurate. I cant remember the last time ive seen a prospect with his deep ball accuracy. It's uncanny. Cochis loves to bring up what the scouts think but glosses over the scouts at Strong's pro day that said his deep ball is "Scary good" and compared him to Matt Ryan, who was a top 3 pick and has won an MVP in this league. Any eagle fan that says they wouldnt take a young Matt Ryan on this current team is a fool. 

 

Honestly, who knows what Howie is thinking with the draft.  He likely isn't thinking like I am which will give Coochis some rest.  His QB stays for one more year.

I like Strong for all you said and where he will be available, but I want some definitive answers on the knee to shut down any concerns.  He looks like the real deal, but my main goal is to improve the position (just like we should at several places).  That's why I continue to contend that there are 6 QBs that offer upside over what we have right now even though none of them may turn out being elite.  This team isn't going anywhere this year, so it can be a developmental year.   

Related to the prognosticators that are being used against a QB this year, they aren't always right.  You never know when the next Tom Brady will emerge or when the next Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf will be picked.  Its an inexact science, for sure.

[KDUB1510]

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I like Strong for all you said and where he will be available, but I want some definitive answers on the knee to shut down any concerns.  He looks like the real deal, but my main goal is to improve the position (just like we should at several places).  That's why I continue to contend that there are 6 QBs that offer upside over what we have right now even though none of them may turn out being elite.  This team isn't going anywhere this year, so it can be a developmental year.   

Related to the prognosticators that are being used against a QB this year, they aren't always right.  You never know when the next Tom Brady will emerge or when the next Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf will be picked.  Its an inexact science, for sure.

Agreed 1000%. If Strong's knee truly is busted then we shouldnt go in that direction. But if it's truly a matter of time and healing like it's been reported, then i think we should take a shot. Hopefully our medical team is doing their homework. I dont think people would be begging for more weapons if we had a legit passer under center. Goedert and Smith are pro bowl caliber talents IMO. If you take a look around the league, most teams only have 1 or two pro bowl caliber pass catchers and then a bunch of guys. Quez is as solid of a 3rd option as any other on a team that is pass centric & has a quality QB. Hell, there are some fans that want me to believe Sirianni when he endorses Hurts as his guy, but these same fans want us to take a WR in the 1st round because they dont believe Sirianni when he says Quez can be one of the better WR2's he's been around. My point is i think a guy like Strong in a year or two could be a perennial 4000+ yards/25+ TD guy that leads us to regular and post season success with the weapons we have currently, given his knee is fine. I dont see the same for Hurts. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

10 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

So we should just sit around with mediocre and and wait on an elite talent? Do you get tired of having a less than SB ceiling for the team?  It's interesting, but how many teams actually find elite talent (not matter where they are picked)?  We just need to improve the position to the next level.  It's not a hard argument to understand that we need better production at the QB position and a player that opens up the full playbook.  Several of these guys offer us more opportunity than Hurts and we don't need any miracles for excessive resources to do so.   

In this hypothetical matter, I'd consider a trade back, gain a pick, and still pick up Strong late in the first...then I'd trade Hurts for a pick.  Gain two picks and gain a better QB.  

But the likelihood is to get one of the top QBs in this draft, not Strong, you'd have to trade up. So now you're trading up to get "better than what we have". But that makes no sense on a roster that just isn't that good. So now you've got a QB who's perhaps a little better than average, you have a roster that isn't good enough to contend and you've used picks to go and get that QB.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

4 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But the likelihood is to get one of the top QBs in this draft, not Strong, you'd have to trade up. So now you're trading up to get "better than what we have". But that makes no sense on a roster that just isn't that good. So now you've got a QB who's perhaps a little better than average, you have a roster that isn't good enough to contend and you've used picks to go and get that QB.

 I have repeatedly said that we should not chase a QB by using additional resources.  There are 6 QBs with more upside than we currently have under center.  All of them upgrade the roster and all of them will reset the rookie contract clock.  We can sit where we are (or trade back) and still get improved QB play and a higher ceiling for the team. That uses one pick.  Strong would be a good choice, but there will be others.  You can stop with the word play now.  It's clear what I am saying.

Or, using your concepts, we can wait until next year because the one pick we use this year on another position (safety, LB, DT, WR) will complete the roster and all we will need is a rookie QB to finish the road to the SB. Yep, that makes sense.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

 I have repeatedly said that we should not chase a QB by using additional resources.  There are 6 QBs with more upside than we currently have under center.  All of them upgrade the roster and all of them will reset the rookie contract clock.  We can sit where we are (or trade back) and still get improved QB play and a higher ceiling for the team. That uses one pick.  Strong would be a good choice, but there will be others.  You can stop with the word play now.  It's clear what I am saying.

Or, using your concepts, we can wait until next year because the one pick we use this year on another position (safety, LB, DT, WR) will complete the roster and all we will need is a rookie QB to finish the road to the SB. Yep, that makes sense.

 

But to get one of the top QBs this year you are going to have to trade up... I don't think Strong improves the QB position but that's just my take on him. 

[KDUB1510]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/75B4t5tsFL5Lxx0snLU4Qr?si=C9-G6pHrT4aae5ax3dvrpg&utm_source=copy-link Here is a fantasy podcast that had Matt Waldman on to discuss his top QB's. The discussion starts around the 3 minute mark. When asked who he would compare Strong to, Waldman said "a more technically professioned version of Philip Rivers". He has Strong as his QB1 based on FILM and not what the media is saying. He echos what i've been saying about Strong, which is that if the knee holds up, he could be a stud. Waldman has Corral and Pickett as his QB2 & QB3. I'd be fine with any of those 3 but Strong is my preference. I find it hard to believe that Sirianni would pass on potentially a Philip Rivers clone just to stick with Hurts, a guy he had no influence in drafting, or the pipedream of landing Young or Stroud next year. We shall see. 

[KDUB1510]

"In 2020, of quarterbacks with 350 or more attempts, Strong ranked No. 3 in PFF deep-passing grade behind only two 2021 first-rounders -- Zach Wilson and Mac Jones. He also was one of only four quarterbacks who had an aDOT of 7.5 or above with an adjusted accuracy percentage higher than 80%, alongside 2021 first-rounders Wilson, Jones and Justin Fields. This past year, playing with a compromised base, Strong still ranked No. 12 in PFF deep-passing grade. I'm telling you: He has a first-round arm."

"In 2020, Strong’s 92.0 PFF passing grade in clean pockets dropped to 48.2 under pressure. In 2021, the splits were even more pronounced, with a 93.8 clean-pocket grade and a lowly 42.6 grade under pressure.  At least some of last season’s struggles in this area were attributable to the knee, as well as how bad Nevada's offensive line was. The Wolf Pack ranked No. 108 in PFF pass-blocking grade. By my numbers, Nevada's OL ranked as the No. 112 unit in the FBS last year (out of 130)." 

Basically, put him behind a good Oline(like the one we have) and he will pick defenses apart. Eagles had the 2nd highest pass block win rate last season behind only the Rams, who happen to have a cannon arm statue under center that just helped them win a Super Bowl.

 

 

"The pre-2021 tape shows myriad instances of Strong losing stock of his lower-half and throwing balls all-arm in the face of heat in order to get rid of it. Revamping his set-up and consistently marrying his lower- and upper-halves on throws will lead to an accuracy boost, likely improving Strong’s performance under pressure while naturally up-ticking his velocity."    

Imagine a guy who already has a big arm and is coming off back to back seasons of 70% getting an up-tick in accuracy and velocity... I know im probably driving some crazy with my Strong agenda but it is what it is. The guy is legit and i want him quarterbacking our Eagles. #Manifesting🙏🏾🤞🏾

[Kwahu]

If the kid had some of Sam Howell’s running plays on tape he would be "Josh Allen 2.0” in the media.

Praying for a 3rd round steal.

[eglz1]

On 3/30/2022 at 8:15 AM, KDUB1510 said:

Agreed 100%. Sam Howell was a projected top 5 pick coming into this year. I've seen numerous scouts, analysts and fans admit that Strong would be a 1st rd lock if not for the knee issues. Malik Willis has crazy physical tools that are more worthy of being married to IMO. Corral has a cannon arm and solid mobility. Ridder's mobility rivals Hurts while also seeming to have more upside as passer just from my eye test. Pickett probably has the least upside of them all but is also probably the safest and definitely a better passer than Hurts IMO. Im willing to bet most if not all of them will be off the board by pick 53. No chance id take Hurts over any of them if we're simply talkin about who id start my franchise with. 

I think most of them gone by 53 is right. It's hard to underestimate how much the NFL values Quarterbacks.

[eglz1]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:49 PM, KDUB1510 said:

I agree with him. I'd swap Hurts for any of the top 6 QB's in this class. I think they all bring more upside as a passer and most bring more or similar upside as a runner(Literally everyone but Strong lol). But Strong is the guy i think best fits what Sirianni wants to do and comes with prototypical size and rocket arm. He also seems to have all the intangibles. I believe the way we threw the ball the first 7 games is how Sirianni wants to do it. Hurts just wasnt capable so Siri adjusted to a run heavy style and we started to have some success. Strong is used to throwing 40-50 times a game and being efficient while doing so. 

I'll bet that would be music to Lurie's ears.

[KDUB1510]

On 4/1/2022 at 6:25 PM, eglz1 said:

I'll bet that would be music to Lurie's ears.

524 attempts in 12 games. Nevada had virtually no run game and a porous offensive line. Strong on basically one leg was still able to complete 70 % of his passes for over 4100 yards & 36 TD's. His top two receiving options (Romeo Doubs & Cole Turner) probably wont be drafted within the first 3 rounds. Imagine putting him behind a top 5 offensive line, with a top 5 run game & DeVonta, Goedert, Quez, Pascal, Sanders & Gainwell as his supporting cast. Could be a legit OROY candidate IMO.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

3 hours ago, KDUB1510 said:

524 attempts in 12 games. Nevada had virtually no run game and a porous offensive line. Strong on basically one leg was still able to complete 70 % of his passes for over 4100 yards & 36 TD's. His top two receiving options (Romeo Doubs & Cole Turner) probably wont be drafted within the first 3 rounds. Imagine putting him behind a top 5 offensive line, with a top 5 run game & DeVonta, Goedert, Quez, Pascal, Sanders & Gainwell as his supporting cast. Could be a legit OROY candidate IMO.

As you know, I like Strong and believe that he can be a very good NFL QB.   However, Lurie's comments about Russell Wilson gives me the feeling that Strong isn't what they are looking for.   I'd guess that they will continue to play make believe that Hurts can be that (never happen) or make a move for Malik Willis (more of a Russell Wilson clone), if he ends up close enough to one of the picks.

[KDUB1510]

42 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

As you know, I like Strong and believe that he can be a very good NFL QB.   However, Lurie's comments about Russell Wilson gives me the feeling that Strong isn't what they are looking for.   I'd guess that they will continue to play make believe that Hurts can be that (never happen) or make a move for Malik Willis (more of a Russell Wilson clone), if he ends up close enough to one of the picks.

Lurie needs to let that go. That's how we got in this situation with Hurts in the first place. After the trade, i cant see them moving up for Willis and i dont see him getting out of the top 10 anyway. Sirianni hasnt worked with many duel threat types. He's worked with guys that play the game like Strong does, namely Philip Rivers. I dont think we're gonna pick any QB's this year but id be elated if Strong was the pick at 51. 

[CouchKing]

All depends how high Malik Willis gets drafted. Could be #1 or #2 overall.

Depends on who is trading up and how much they are willing to give up.

Eagles have plenty of ammo if they want to move up.

Do they like Malik Willis. Don't know.

[KDUB1510]

5 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

All depends how high Malik Willis gets drafted. Could be #1 or #2 overall.

Depends on who is trading up and how much they are willing to give up.

Eagles have plenty of ammo if they want to move up.

Do they like Malik Willis. Don't know.

according to this guy, the Eagles only had one QB with a 1st rd grade. When i think of the QB's that are "gambles", i think Willis & Strong. I dont think it's Willis because his tape isnt 1st rd worthy, Strong's is. Strong's medical concerns is what makes him a gamble but if im right and Strong is said QB, i dont think Howie will hesitate to take him at 51 if he's there. 

[CouchKing]

Carson Strong could get picked in round 1. Maybe Steelers.

And then at the top of round 2. Maybe Detroit, Carolina, Seattle, Washington. (The same folks that could draft a QB in round 1).

So, I don't see Carson Strong lasting until 19 picks into the second round.

Eagles might need to move up to get him if he is available at top of 2nd.

[KDUB1510]

Honestly, If Strong is there at 51 i'd draft him and trade Hurts for another pick next year. Give him 17 games to show what he's got. I just dont see the need to give Hurts another year. I havent seen any glimpses of a Franchise QB in 20 games. We'd only be hurting his trade value if he was the starter this season IMO. The QB's that have been drafted and become franchise guys over the last 5-8 years all showed glimpses early on. It didnt take guys like Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Watson, Lamar, Allen etc 20+ games to show they had special ability. I dont think it would take Strong 20+ games to show his special combination of touch, velocity & accuracy. If he stinks, well be bad and probably have a better chance at getting Young or Stroud. But if he doesnt, we will have found a legit QB to build around with those two 1st's next year. Obviously none of this will happen but id do it in a heartbeat because im simply not a believer in Hurts. 

[CouchKing]

If we draft Strong and trade Hurts ( which I'm all for ), then Minshew starts the season as QB1.

Not sure when Strong starts, but no need to throw him to the wolves in week 1.