Carson Strong (Nevada QB) -- UDFA SIGNED WITH EAGLES!

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

1 hour ago, KDUB1510 said:

 Maybe Strong does if teams red flag his knee but i dont see it. My hope is that Howie is just playing the game to maximize Hurts value. We see that not speaking highly of your QB can tank his trade value(Wentz & Mayfield). Howie got a 1st and a 3rd for Wentz after he had his worst season and got benched, probably because he never crapped on him like Irsay did. Same with the Browns and Mayfield. Howie & Sirianni have been selling Hurts as this talented, hard working 23 year old QB that led us to the playoffs and im praying some sucker falls for it. Getting Hurts another weapon would only expose him even more and lower his trade value moving forward. Anyone that has access to all 22 can see the weapons he already has running wide open every week and not getting the football.

You could see the All 22 stuff all year. @greendhas been on top of the wide open WR stuff for a long time.  Hurts made the system and skill players look bad, while he padded his stats in garbage time and against garbage teams.   Fans will always love the run around BS, but, when someone decides to be logical and educated, the real issue is clear.  

[KDUB1510]

Devonta would've had 1200+ yards if Hurts was a legit passer. Goedert probably has 1000+ yards if he's not splitting reps with Ertz the first 6 weeks. Quez had 600+ yards as the 3rd option on a run first team and was missed many times by Hurts. That's 3 guys capable of 800+ receiving yards + a top 5 Oline and a solid stable of backs. Any QB worth his salt produces much more than 16 TD's and 3100 yards with that supporting cast. Unlike Hurts, Strong hasnt thrown to multiple 1st rd picks throughout his career. Devonta, Goedert, Quez & our Oline would be a massive upgrade for him, whereas Hurts has literally played with better receivers in college than what we have and still looked pedestrian as a passer. Draft Strong and the weapons we have will flourish. 

 

 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

4 hours ago, KDUB1510 said:

I guess you missed my post where i said "if they were all available at the 53rd pick(where hurts was picked), Hurts is the last one I would pick". Never said that id reach for any of them in the 1st. Ive said multiple times ITT that Strong is the only QB id move off of Hurts for. That's my opinion. I think it's flat out nonsense that you think any of the top 6 QB's in this class are "inferior" to Hurts but that's your opinion. That same OU offense had two guys go #1 the two previous drafts so miss me with Hurts OU career. The guy wouldnt even have been a 2nd round pick had we not selected him. That same draft saw Tua go top 5 and Jordan Love selected in the 1st rd, who stinks. If given the choice to start a franchise with one of the top 6 QB's from this class or Hurts, Jalen is the last one id pick. 

It's a bad draft, Zac Wilson would still be scouted and drafted ahead of any of these guys, you not liking Jalen Hurts doesn't make them good, it's not fear of change, it's fear of wasting a first or second for a guy who's a wash, who is exactly what the scouts say he is an underwhelming talent in an underwhelming draft who takes you nowhere except another middling pick in next years draft, just because some guy on a message board watched the all 22.  If you want a good franchise QB you don't go hunting in a draft where people are predicting QB1 goes outside the top ten.

How long do we give a Strong, Corral, Willis or Ridder to develop, because they all need development, so how long 23 games again? 2 seasons? 3?

Scouting report highlights

Willis struggles to read coverages and tries to play hero ball (that's our last two QB's), 

Corral accuracy is spotty, tends to take off if his first read isn't there (that's Hurts without the resume),

Strong has a cannon but his mobility is lacking, he has a tendency to lock on to a receiver and eat sacks because he holds the ball too long (little bit of Wentz and a little bit of Hurts)

Ridder, tends to underthrow deep balls, struggles to throw receivers open, but is a diligent worker (I swear I'm not making these up go and look)

 

So no it's not fear of change, it's fear of spending draft capital to not change, spending a first two days pick to not move the needle at all.

 

 

[KDUB1510]

2 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

It's a bad draft, Zac Wilson would still be scouted and drafted ahead of any of these guys, you not liking Jalen Hurts doesn't make them good, it's not fear of change, it's fear of wasting a first or second for a guy who's a wash, who is exactly what the scouts say he is an underwhelming talent in an underwhelming draft who takes you nowhere except another middling pick in next years draft, just because some guy on a message board watched the all 22.  If you want a good franchise QB you don't go hunting in a draft where people are predicting QB1 goes outside the top ten.

How long do we give a Strong, Corral, Willis or Ridder to develop, because they all need development, so how long 23 games again? 2 seasons? 3?

Scouting report highlights

Willis struggles to read coverages and tries to play hero ball (that's our last two QB's), 

Corral accuracy is spotty, tends to take off if his first read isn't there (that's Hurts without the resume),

Strong has a cannon but his mobility is lacking, he has a tendency to lock on to a receiver and eat sacks because he holds the ball too long (little bit of Wentz and a little bit of Hurts)

Ridder, tends to underthrow deep balls, struggles to throw receivers open, but is a diligent worker (I swear I'm not making these up go and look)

 

So no it's not fear of change, it's fear of spending draft capital to not change, spending a first two days pick to not move the needle at all.

 

 

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this so ill just agree to disagree.

 

[ilikepargo]

I don't want ANY of these QBs before Round #3 at the earliest.  They don't show that much promise, and we have too many other needs.  The Wentz/Hurts thing was (and still is) a mess created by the F.O.'s bad choices.  But the best course is to live with it for one more year and build the rest of the team right now.  A year from now, if Hurts hasn't grown, then we can look toward a new QB.  I don't believe that ANY of these guys can be the solution for us.  Taking one of them with a high pick would be a waste of a good resource that we should be using in other areas.

[ManchesterEagle]

4 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

It's a bad draft, Zac Wilson would still be scouted and drafted ahead of any of these guys, you not liking Jalen Hurts doesn't make them good, it's not fear of change, it's fear of wasting a first or second for a guy who's a wash, who is exactly what the scouts say he is an underwhelming talent in an underwhelming draft who takes you nowhere except another middling pick in next years draft, just because some guy on a message board watched the all 22.  If you want a good franchise QB you don't go hunting in a draft where people are predicting QB1 goes outside the top ten.

How long do we give a Strong, Corral, Willis or Ridder to develop, because they all need development, so how long 23 games again? 2 seasons? 3?

Scouting report highlights

Willis struggles to read coverages and tries to play hero ball (that's our last two QB's), 

Corral accuracy is spotty, tends to take off if his first read isn't there (that's Hurts without the resume),

Strong has a cannon but his mobility is lacking, he has a tendency to lock on to a receiver and eat sacks because he holds the ball too long (little bit of Wentz and a little bit of Hurts)

Ridder, tends to underthrow deep balls, struggles to throw receivers open, but is a diligent worker (I swear I'm not making these up go and look)

 

So no it's not fear of change, it's fear of spending draft capital to not change, spending a first two days pick to not move the needle at all.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, ilikepargo said:

I don't want ANY of these QBs before Round #3 at the earliest.  They don't show that much promise, and we have too many other needs.  The Wentz/Hurts thing was (and still is) a mess created by the F.O.'s bad choices.  But the best course is to live with it for one more year and build the rest of the team right now.  A year from now, if Hurts hasn't grown, then we can look toward a new QB.  I don't believe that ANY of these guys can be the solution for us.  Taking one of them with a high pick would be a waste of a good resource that we should be using in other areas.

Hurts is flawed, likely to the point that we may well have to move on in 2022 if he can’t make improvements. 

But he was a top 20 QB in the league last year. Most of these guys won’t even get that far. Pickett or Willis probably have the best chance, but they would also probably take 2 firsts to get. Not worth it.

Build the team, give Hurts 2022 and then you can be aggressive in 2023 if he doesn’t show enough, knowing you are giving whoever you get a good chance to succeed by adding needed talented young players now.
 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

5 hours ago, KDUB1510 said:

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this so ill just agree to disagree.

 

Good call.  It will just go round and round.  I don't think the Eagles take a QB this year, but it's just silly to pretend to like what we have is ever taking us anywhere no matter how many more years we give him.  He's just good enough to keep dropping us at 8 or 9 wins and an instant playoff loss....thus dropping us in this same draft spot next year.  Plus, next year, he will have no trade value and we will have to dump in resources to move up as a cherry on top of Howie's QB crap sundae . Maybe, I am wrong, but I doubt it.  We will just have to deal with mediocre play again.  

[KDUB1510]

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Good call.  It will just go round and round.  I don't think the Eagles take a QB this year, but it's just silly to pretend to like what we have is ever taking us anywhere no matter how many more years we give him.  He's just good enough to keep dropping us at 8 or 9 wins and an instant playoff loss....thus dropping us in this same draft spot next year.  Plus, next year, he will have no trade value and we will have to dump in resources to move up as a cherry on top of Howie's QB crap sundae . Maybe, I am wrong, but I doubt it.  We will just have to deal with mediocre play again.  

This team is quickly headed to purgatory. We're not getting Young or Stroud so im just curious who is the fallback option next year? Anthony Richardson? DJ Uiagalalei? Jake Haener? Spencer Rattler? Phil Jurkovec? Kedon Slovis? Grayson McCall? Maybe a few of these guys take a big leap but as of right now, they arent any better than the QB's in this class. I guess when we strike out again next offseason we can just sign Hurts to a new deal🤷🏾‍♂️.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

8 hours ago, KDUB1510 said:

This team is quickly headed to purgatory. We're not getting Young or Stroud so im just curious who is the fallback option next year?

Why don't you think this team can get Young or Stroud next year?

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

8 hours ago, KDUB1510 said:

This team is quickly headed to purgatory. We're not getting Young or Stroud so im just curious who is the fallback option next year? Anthony Richardson? DJ Uiagalalei? Jake Haener? Spencer Rattler? Phil Jurkovec? Kedon Slovis? Grayson McCall? Maybe a few of these guys take a big leap but as of right now, they arent any better than the QB's in this class. I guess when we strike out again next offseason we can just sign Hurts to a new deal🤷🏾‍♂️.

If we end up having to extend Hurts, then we officially are in QB Purgatory.  I don't think that will happen, but I know Hurts is just good enough to confuse the situation with his exciting, but not good enough, QB play.

The issue that I see is that, beyond MAYBE Stroud and Young, the QBs next year aren't head and shoulders above the ones this year and right now both are so far up the board that we will have to package a ton to get there essentially delaying the samewaste of needed resources. PLUS, we will have to have a trade partner...far from a sure thing.

If I am the Eagles, I sit back and wait in this draft and see where it goes.  They likely can even trade back, pick up some resources, and still get one late first.  Like you, I wouldn't move up.  Most around here love to play make believe that it's a given that we wait then automatically trade up with no issues.  That fantasy land stuff, but typical.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

27 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Why don't you think this team can get Young or Stroud next year?

What makes you think we can?  Are you expecting them to drop?

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

What makes you think we can?  Are you expecting them to drop?

I'm not saying we can. I'm also not saying we can't. Maybe Howie trades a #1 this year for a #1 next year. Maybe we end up trading a player to pick up extra assets next year. Maybe we stink this year and have a high pick next year. There are many reasons to think we have a chance to go and get Stroud or Young. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'm not saying we can. I'm also not saying we can't. Maybe Howie trades a #1 this year for a #1 next year. Maybe we end up trading a player to pick up extra assets next year. Maybe we stink this year and have a high pick next year. There are many reasons to think we have a chance to go and get Stroud or Young. 

It's more likely that we win 8 or 9 and are stuck in the same draft spot.  We aren't a horrible team that will end up top 5 naturally.  Will you be more comfortable trading away a big chunk of next year's draft resources to get those guys?  We're still going to have alot of holes. 

It's funny to see you have this much faith in Howie and the draft.  I sense that you may have joined Team Howie.  Such a big change!

 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

9 hours ago, KDUB1510 said:

This team is quickly headed to purgatory. We're not getting Young or Stroud so im just curious who is the fallback option next year? Anthony Richardson? DJ Uiagalalei? Jake Haener? Spencer Rattler? Phil Jurkovec? Kedon Slovis? Grayson McCall? Maybe a few of these guys take a big leap but as of right now, they arent any better than the QB's in this class. I guess when we strike out again next offseason we can just sign Hurts to a new deal🤷🏾‍♂️.

Will Rogers at Mississippi State will be in the conversation next year if he comes out, he had better numbers than Corral this year and broke Dak's school single season TD record in his first season as full time starter, there are others that could potentially rise up boards like Hooker at Tennessee, Stetson Bennett will be talked up if he matches this year, I like Haener at Fresno, he'll be a first round pick if he gets anywhere near last year, I'd keep an eye on Texas A&M to see how Max Johnson gets on, the kids a unit and if he keeps developing he'll be right up there either next year or the year after.  Hell Kenny Pickett was an average UDFA level college QB for 4 years before this year now he's consensus QB1, and the fact is if Young and Stroud come out as can't miss prospects then if you're serious about having the guy then you do what you have to to get them, they did it for Wentz and after this year where they're using big draft capital to restock the roster elsewhere, you could justify making a splash move to get the QB.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

52 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

It's funny to see you have this much faith in Howie and the draft.  I sense that you may have joined Team Howie.  Such a big change!

 

Haha let's calm down there! I have not joined team Howie 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Haha let's calm down there! I have not joined team Howie 

LOL!  My point exactly.  We can't criticize him for consistently being a draft zero and all of the sudden pretend that he can be a hero with this one future pick...unless we attach our hopes to the "he did it with Wentz, so he must be able to do it again" fantasy.

I don't think they should chase a QB early, but I would not be against trading back for picks and Strong later on or stay put for Pickett or Corral.  Just because we take a QB, there is no guarantee of "elite". It just means we are upgrading the current situation. 

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

LOL!  My point exactly.  We can't criticize him for consistently being a draft zero and all of the sudden pretend that he can be a hero with this one future pick...unless we attach our hopes to the "he did it with Wentz, so he must be able to do it again" fantasy.

I don't think they should chase a QB early, but I would not be against trading back for picks and Strong later on or stay put for Pickett or Corral.  Just because we take a QB, there is no guarantee of "elite". It just means we are upgrading the current situation. 

 

So what you are saying is either join team Howie or give up... That's essentially the choice you are proposing.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

19 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

So what you are saying is either join team Howie or give up... That's essentially the choice you are proposing.

You obviously are having comprehension problems today.  I am saying nothing of the sort.  I don't see how anyone has so much faith in Howie that we pass QBs that will improve the team with the supreme confidence that he will pull off another Wentz-like draft trade for an "elite" player.  Its a constant refrain here - skip QBs this year, trade back for picks, and Howie will put us in position for Stroud or Young (if they end up the top 2).  He is roundly criticized here routinely, but somehow he is SO GOOD that he gets this right?  I have no faith in him or that the other things will fall in line.  Do you trust him to pull all of that off?  Just look at the last QB mess that he created. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

22 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

You obviously are having comprehension problems today.  I am saying nothing of the sort.  I don't see how anyone has so much faith in Howie that we pass QBs that will improve the team with the supreme confidence that he will pull off another Wentz-like draft trade for an "elite" player.  Its a constant refrain here - skip QBs this year, trade back for picks, and Howie will put us in position for Stroud or Young (if they end up the top 2).  He is roundly criticized here routinely, but somehow he is SO GOOD that he gets this right?  I have no faith in him or that the other things will fall in line.  Do you trust him to pull all of that off?  Just look at the last QB mess that he created. 

What I'm saying has nothing to do with Howie though really. I'm saying any team in the league (bar the ones who have a QB in place) have a shot at Stroud and Young. The Eagles just happen to be in a better position because they can trade a first round pick this year for an extra next year. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

33 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

What I'm saying has nothing to do with Howie though really. I'm saying any team in the league (bar the ones who have a QB in place) have a shot at Stroud and Young. The Eagles just happen to be in a better position because they can trade a first round pick this year for an extra next year. 

Either way, we have to give up resources to go get someone next year and lose the rebuilding resource of those pick(s), whereas this year, we do not and can land a QB upgrade...not elite, simply an upgrade over the non-passing QB that we have.  Moving up either year is where the damage get s done.    SOme are stuck on "no one is elite this year", but we don't have to get "elite" to improve over "barely mediocre" and we keep all of our picks.  There are just too many variables to pass them if they are naturally there.   Most teams repeatedly go through the cycle to find their guy and we likely will, too..

I'll be surprised if they take a QB, but it's not as bad as some people want to make it out to be.  We can improve the position this year with Strong, Pickett, Corral, Willis, Ridder or Howell.  Not perfect, just much better than run around guy. 

This discussion is getting this topic off track.  I'm out of it.  I appreciate your opinion.

[KDUB1510]

9 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Why don't you think this team can get Young or Stroud next year?

Because our pick will probably land outside the top 10 just like it did this year. We watched Miami start 1-7 and their pick still ended up outside the top 10, so good luck rooting for another team to lose. If a team needs a QB in the top 5, they arent moving off that pick no matter how much we offer them. The only reason the eagles were able to trade up for Wentz is because the Browns didnt think he was special. 

[KDUB1510]

On 3/31/2022 at 5:47 AM, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Will Rogers at Mississippi State will be in the conversation next year if he comes out, he had better numbers than Corral this year and broke Dak's school single season TD record in his first season as full time starter, there are others that could potentially rise up boards like Hooker at Tennessee, Stetson Bennett will be talked up if he matches this year, I like Haener at Fresno, he'll be a first round pick if he gets anywhere near last year, I'd keep an eye on Texas A&M to see how Max Johnson gets on, the kids a unit and if he keeps developing he'll be right up there either next year or the year after.  Hell Kenny Pickett was an average UDFA level college QB for 4 years before this year now he's consensus QB1

If you want to put your hopes & dreams into  Stetson Bennett, Will Rogers, Max Johnson, Jake Haener & Hendon Hooker developing into Franchise QB's, be my guest. I dont really see the difference between those guys and the guys in this class. 

 

On 3/31/2022 at 5:47 AM, Cochis_Calhoun said:

and the fact is if Young and Stroud come out as can't miss prospects then if you're serious about having the guy then you do what you have to to get them, they did it for Wentz and after this year where they're using big draft capital to restock the roster elsewhere, you could justify making a splash move to get the QB.

We were able to trade up for Wentz because the browns didnt think he was special or "cant-miss". He was a prospect whose stock rised during the pre draft process. Young & Stroud were freshman sensations. We arent gettin them unless we have a top 3 pick.

[KDUB1510]

9 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

If we end up having to extend Hurts, then we officially are in QB Purgatory.  I don't think that will happen, but I know Hurts is just good enough to confuse the situation with his exciting, but not good enough, QB play.

The issue that I see is that, beyond MAYBE Stroud and Young, the QBs next year aren't head and shoulders above the ones this year and right now both are so far up the board that we will have to package a ton to get there essentially delaying the samewaste of needed resources. PLUS, we will have to have a trade partner...far from a sure thing.

If I am the Eagles, I sit back and wait in this draft and see where it goes.  They likely can even trade back, pick up some resources, and still get one late first.  Like you, I wouldn't move up.  Most around here love to play make believe that it's a given that we wait then automatically trade up with no issues.  That fantasy land stuff, but typical.

There are lots of madden players in the eagles fan base, apparently. That's the only place where you can make any trade you want and completely control the outcome. I just dont think it's smart to assume we can find a trade partner to give up a 1st this year, that that trade partner will be bad enough to get a top 5-10 pick next year & that we'll be able to find a trade partner in the likely event that we're out of range for the top two QB's and need to trade up. Im just not a fan of that strategy whatsoever and i dont exactly see Young & Stroud as cant-miss franchise guys just yet. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

20 minutes ago, KDUB1510 said:

There are lots of madden players in the eagles fan base, apparently. That's the only place where you can make any trade you want and completely control the outcome. I just dont think it's smart to assume we can find a trade partner to give up a 1st this year, that that trade partner will be bad enough to get a top 5-10 pick next year & that we'll be able to find a trade partner in the likely event that we're out of range for the top two QB's and need to trade up. Im just not a fan of that strategy whatsoever and i dont exactly see Young & Stroud as cant-miss franchise guys just yet. 

I agree.  There's no guarantee that we benefit one bit by waiting until next year.  Too many things have to fall into place after we win 8 or 9 games and land outside of the top 15 picks.  For that matter, we give up rebuilding resources (that everyone seems to covet this year) to chase a QB.  We can improve our current situation this year with any number of QBs and see where it takes us.  They don't have to be "elite" to improve our current situation.  I'll take a QB that can push the ball downfield (like Strong) over Hurts every day of the week.

This is a classic "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" situation.  Getting risky or greedy could come back to haunt us.  

[Cochis_Calhoun]

13 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I agree.  There's no guarantee that we benefit one bit by waiting until next year.  Too many things have to fall into place after we win 8 or 9 games and land outside of the top 15 picks.  For that matter, we give up rebuilding resources (that everyone seems to covet this year) to chase a QB.  We can improve our current situation this year with any number of QBs and see where it takes us.  They don't have to be "elite" to improve our current situation.  I'll take a QB that can push the ball downfield (like Strong) over Hurts every day of the week.

This is a classic "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" situation.  Getting risky or greedy could come back to haunt us.  

But the bird in the hand this year is the lowest rated bird there's been since 2013.

You and Kdub are like Howie's thinking you can outsmart the scouts and find a QB this year, Pickett is the only guy that is ready to start right now, everyone else is a project that is going to have to sit or take lumps and if Hurts has proved anything it's people like you and kDub ain't interested in QB's taking their lumps on the job.