5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 

7 years that is awful. Should have just let him walk

The Nola experience is here to stay 

Just load up on everything and create a 3-4 year championship window. Use Rojas and a couple farm system guys to make trades for vets and let’s get a world series. 

The last two years are likely going to be bad. You hope you get 4 good and potentially a fifth. 

 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The last 2 years are likely gonna be bad. You have to hope you get at least 4 good ones 

24.5 AAV 

Makes you wonder what Wheeler is going to ask for 

5 minutes ago, iladelphxx said:

24.5 AAV 

Makes you wonder what Wheeler is going to ask for 

I would prefer they sign Yamamoto and for this upcoming year, have a ridiculous starting pitching group. Then see how Wheeler and the other main pitching prospects do this year, and play his contract by ear. 

7 minutes ago, iladelphxx said:

24.5 AAV 

Makes you wonder what Wheeler is going to ask for 

Wheeler is gonna be 34 when he hits free agency. I’m guessing it’s likely only a 3-4 year contract due to that factor. But he’s likely looking at something like 4 for $145 (on par with degrom last offseason) with a fifth year option that makes it something like 5 for $175

10 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

what is it with loyalty with players that dont get it done? i just dont get it anymore, seems like they care more about the player than winning championships, there's no accountability with this fo none and thing is what if he starts playing like crap or he gets a serious injury, we are stuck with his contract and we cant make upgrades and our championship window is closed not unless our farm system comes through.

4 minutes ago, toughfighter83 said:

what is it with loyalty with players that dont get it done? i just dont get it anymore, seems like they care more about the player than winning championships, there's no accountability with this fo none and thing is what if he starts playing like crap or he gets a serious injury, we are stuck with his contract and we cant make upgrades and our championship window is closed not unless our farm system comes through.

Feels like the problem amaro ran into where he kept players longer then he should cause the group had success (actually won the World Series). Added outside talent but really it came crumbling down when the loyalty caught up and guys were still in these contracts.

Don’t care about the $172. I care about the year 6 and 7. He’s very likely not good anymore by then and you are stuck with a $24 mil price tag each of those seasons when you are trying to compete in the waning years of bryce and Turner and likely in the luxury tax so it makes it harder to build the roster. i would’ve just paid nola 5 years $160 mil just to avoid year 6 and 7. If he’s good for 3 and then rials off year 4 and 5 it’s not as bad as i get out in 2 years as compared to 4. 

$24.5m AAV is pretty good IMO. 7 years is 2 more years than I’d like, but what can you do. The alternative options were across the board worse. 

I’m fine with this team sucking again in 5 years for a 5 year span if that means we are loaded the next 3-4 years and get one World Series. 

3 minutes ago, Blazehound said:

$24.5m AAV is pretty good IMO. 7 years is 2 more years than I’d like, but what can you do. The alternative options were across the board worse. 

problem is like it was with cliff lee, he starts playing like crap or suffers a serious injury, it's going to be another decade of misery because we cant make upgrades as a result of the contract you cant buy him out.

24.5 mil a year for a starting pitcher won’t be much 6 years from now. This is a team friendly deal for a guy who wanted to stay. Yeah he has had his ups and downs but dude was a beast last two postseasons, I respect it. 

Just now, toughfighter83 said:

problem is like it was with cliff lee, he starts playing like crap or suffers a serious injury, it's going to be another decade of misery because we cant make upgrades as a result of the contract you cant buy him out.

Yeah that’s a two way street though.  Wheeler’s best years, for example,  have been after he turned 30. 

2 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

I’m fine with this team sucking again in 5 years for a 5 year span if that means we are loaded the next 3-4 years and get one World Series. 

Not sure you get to 4 years. A lot of guys are heading to mid 30s and eventually gonna see west and tear drop offs. Have money to spend cause of middleton but eventually like you saw with 2007-2011 it eventually closes. They got 5 years total. So if you follow the same you already had the 2. Might only have 3 left before it begins to erode. Phillies have guys like schwarber, castellanos, nola, wheeler, harper, Turner and jt all in their 30s and some mid 30s. I think if you get 3 really good years at this point it’s about as much as you could ask. Would be 5 years which is a half decade. 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not sure you get to 4 years. A lot of guys are heading to mid 30s and eventually gonna see west and tear drop offs. Have money to spend cause of middleton but eventually like you saw with 2007-2011 it eventually closes. They got 5 years total. So if you follow the same you already had the 2. Might only have 3 left before it begins to erode. Phillies have guys like schwarber, castellanos, nola, wheeler, harper, Turner and jt all in their 30s and some mid 30s. I think if you get 3 really good years at this point it’s about as much as you could ask. Would be 5 years which is a half decade. 

I dont mean specifically 3-4 years. Just load up right now try to win one before this core is on the wrong sides of their careers. Im willing to sacrifice sucking after that for a while. 

5 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

I dont mean specifically 3-4 years. Just load up right now try to win one before this core is on the wrong sides of their careers. Im willing to sacrifice sucking after that for a while. 

Sounds good in the moment but people said the same thing during the last Phillies run and it took a decade to get back. Frankly they need to start drafting developing at a level like the dodgers and Braves. If they do you can make it sustainable to have success for longer than short windows. Phillies have been better but no where near those types of levels of those two teams. 

 

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Sounds good in the moment but people said the same thing during the last Phillies run and it took a decade to get back. Frankly they need to start drafting developing at a level like the dodgers and Braves. If they do you can make it sustainable to have success for longer than short windows. Phillies have been better but no where near those types of levels of those two teams. 

All about the farm system. The issue after 2011 is that our farm system produced absolutely nothing. There were years where our best players were guys like mikael Franco and nick williams. You can stay somewhat competitive after a run like this if you draft and develop well enough.

1 hour ago, Khani1 said:

I would prefer they sign Yamamoto and for this upcoming year, have a ridiculous starting pitching group. Then see how Wheeler and the other main pitching prospects do this year, and play his contract by ear. 

Yep. This is a mistake unless they are looking for a guy who can't win big games in the WS or a game 6 at freaking home

43 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

24.5 mil a year for a starting pitcher won’t be much 6 years from now. This is a team friendly deal for a guy who wanted to stay. Yeah he has had his ups and downs but dude was a beast last two postseasons, I respect it. 

Ahhhh he blew the WS, he blew the game in SD in the NLCS, and he blew game 6 at home this year. That guy is not a beast. He crumbles. 

10 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

All about the farm system. The issue after 2011 is that our farm system produced absolutely nothing. There were years where our best players were guys like mikael Franco and nick williams. You can stay somewhat competitive after a run like this if you draft and develop well enough.

Phillies been better recently but it’s still nowhere where it needs to be. They currently have some nice prospects with painter (when healthy), Abel, Crawford, mcgary and Miller. And potentially Rojas if he becomes a better hitter like they were able to do with marsh. The issue is the dodgers and Braves consistently have a boatload of prospects that are mlb type guys and at least 2-3 that are big impact guys that they can either trade or let develop into their roles. Phillies need to get that level of consistency otherwise you’ll likely see a drop off like after 2011 into the dark years 

11 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Ahhhh he blew the WS, he blew the game in SD in the NLCS, and he blew game 6 at home this year. That guy is not a beast. He crumbles. 

Not sure what to tell you. He’s had plenty of amazing postseason outings and clutch regular season outings. I’m not saying the guy is Zack wheeler and can go through an entire postseason of 7 starts without giving up a 4-5 run game. But he’s proven he can do it more often than not in the postseason. 
 

Even most teams aces have a down game or two in the playoffs. It’s crazy to just think and expect every year the guy is going to put up 0 runs and 7 innings every start in the playoffs. 
 

End of the day this guy is an amazing number 3/ decent enough number 2 to have in your rotation and is significantly better than any other pitcher we could possibly get at 24.5 per year