July 7, 20242 yr 1 hour ago, RoadToHell said: This team isn’t winning the World Series They sure aren't.
July 7, 20242 yr 3 hours ago, RoadToHell said: This team isn’t winning the World Series 1 hour ago, Diehardfan said: They sure aren't. Too much negativity here
July 7, 20242 yr Just went and looked. O’hoppe is currently top 5 for all catchers in avg, OBP, SLG, OPS. He’s top 10 in HR and RBI for catchers. Kid is on his way to being one of the better young catchers in baseball. statistically where he ranks amongst other catchers in his second full season with the angels Avg: 5th (.275) OBP: 5th (.330) SLG: 2nd (.468) OPS: 4th (.798) HRs: 7th (12) RBI: 9th (40) More on angels lineup
July 8, 20242 yr The Phillies are gonna be buyers. They’ll upgrade the outfield and bullpen. Regardless of what they do at the deadline - they’re not gonna win anything if they’re not healthy.
July 8, 20242 yr Dombrowski’s trades as Phillies GM: Acquired LHP Jose Alvarado from Rays (gave up LHP Garrett Cleavinger) Acquired RHP Sam Coonrod from Giants for RHP Carson Ragsdale Acquired SS CJ Chatman from Red Sox for PTBNL Traded SS Kyle Holder to Reds for Cash Traded LHP Cole Irvin to Athletics for cash Acquired RHPs Kyle Gibson, Ian Kennedy, Hans Crouse and cash considerations from Texas in exchange for RHPs Spencer Howard, Kevin Gowdy and Josh Gessner. Acquired SS Freddy Galvis from Baltimore for RHP Tyler Burch. Acquired 2B Edmundo Sosa from St. Louis Cardinals for LHP JoJo Romero. Acquired CF Brandon Marsh from Los Angeles Angels in exchange for C Logan O'Hoppe Acquired RHP David Robertson from the Chicago Cubs for RHP Ben Brown Acquired RHP Vinny Nittoli from Toronto in exchange for minor league C Karl Ellison Acquired RHP Noah Syndergaard from Los Angeles Angels for CF Mickey Moniak Acquired Michael Lorenzen from Detroit for INF Hao-Yu Lee Acquired Rudolfo Castro from Pittsburg for SP Bailey Falter Acquired RHP Yunior Marte from San Francisco in exchange for LHP Erik Miller. Traded OF Matt Vierling, SS Nick Maton and C Donny Sands to Detroit Tigers for LHP Gregory Soto and 2B Kody Clemens. Acquired RHP Erich Uelmen from Chicago Cubs for cash considerations Acquired 3B Buddy Kennedy from the Detroit Tigers in exchange for cash considerations and optioned him to Lehigh Valley (IL). Acquired cash considerations from Toronto Blue Jays for RHP Ryan Burr. Acquired LHP Tyler Gilbert from Cincinnati for cash considerations Traded RHP Jason Ruffcorn to Seattle and RHP Ezequiel Ventura to Minnesota for cash considerations Acquired Acquired RHP Zac Houston from Tampa Bay in exchange for cash considerations Acquired RHP Michael Rucker from the Chicago Cubs in exchange for cash considerations these are all the trades he has made since becoming the Phillies general manager. his best trade has clearly Jose Alvarado. It was one of the firsts moves he made. I would argue the Edmundo Sosa trade would look a lot better except that JoJo Romero has become one of the best relievers for the Cardinals. So you essentially got a guy in Sosa who is a really nice utility fielder and played well this year but it’s still a back up for a guy who is one of the best relievers on the Cardinals. Traded O’hoppe who’s becoming one of the best catchers in baseball for a platoon OF. The best player in the Soto and Clemens for vierling and maton deal is actually vierling. His Gibson and syndergaard deals were fine. Castro trade looks bad as Castro is useless. Lorenzen looks solid at the moment and they needed another starter.
July 8, 20242 yr 3 hours ago, Dave Moss said: O’Hoppe wasn’t gonna play here as long as J.T. is healthy The point of that trade wasn’t about not trading o’hoppe. Could’ve dealt o’hoppe and got better value then what they got even at the time of the trade. You were trading for Brandon marsh who couldn’t hit lefties then and struggling mightily with the Angels to just hit in general. you gave away a coveted catching prospect who plays a more valuable position and more valuable prospect at that time as marsh was falling out of favor with the angels with his offensive issues they were struggling to fix so yes, he would’ve been blocked by Jt realmuto however, you didn’t have to trade the value of a good young offensive catcher (with a ton of years left at a cheap value contract) that had potential starting catching ability and potentially even all star ability with the bat for a guy who was struggling at the mlb level and you were going to have to fix in order to get the most out of him. It is bad logic when you go well he’s blocked and that’s the reason you deal him. That is a BS argument because you could’ve waited for a better trade to come along than a struggling OF that you had fix cause the angels were struggling to do so. And after 2 years could only fix him to be a platoon OF and he still can’t hit LHP. That’s bad value management. I couldn’t give a crap less if he was blocked. He was a top 75 prospect who is a catcher that had tremendous offensive upside is far more coveted in major league baseball, then a former top prospect OF that couldn’t hit LHP then (still can’t) and never met the lofty expectations at the MLB level prior to making the trade and now is a platoon player and this isn’t hindsight. Because I said it at the time they made that trade that it was going to wind up looking worse as years went on. Cause you don’t trade top ranked catching prospects that can hit unless you are getting a proven commodity. Not a fixer upper like marsh that had upside but you needed to fix a lot in his hitting (frankly his fielding hasn’t lived up to the billing he had as a prospect). And this isn’t Marsh sucks. This is marsh was not worth what you were gonna have to pay to try to fix him cause he wasn’t nearly the prospect he was touted to be. It’s why the angels were willing to move on. you were going to always have an uphill battle fixing him, which is what he shown you because he can’t play against left-handed pitching and his defense isn’t as great as it was touted to be when he was a prospect.
July 8, 20242 yr My point is that they are all talented. These aren’t nfl first and second round picks with concrete value and expectations. Baseball prospects are vague projection until they aren’t. There are a few generational type talents with undeniable traits that everyone can tell will roll from A ball to majors very quickly. Sorry, but that’s not Painter or Miller, no matter how much we want to think it is. Everyone else…takes time to play out. Maybe an all star, maybe an ace, maybe a platoon hitter or a spot starter. You’re not going to know until they have extended innings against AAA competition (or at least know enough to really define their value). For a franchise on the cusp of a title that also has a really bad recent history of getting its elite prospects to convey into high end MLB studs, I don’t see why any of these guys should be considered special or untouchable. And if Painter/Miller/Crawford are untouchable, then forget about adding any contributor at the deadline, because no one else in the system has value even close to order of magnitude of a proven MLB vet.
July 8, 20242 yr 1 hour ago, eagle45 said: My point is that they are all talented. These aren’t nfl first and second round picks with concrete value and expectations. Baseball prospects are vague projection until they aren’t. There are a few generational type talents with undeniable traits that everyone can tell will roll from A ball to majors very quickly. Sorry, but that’s not Painter or Miller, no matter how much we want to think it is. Everyone else…takes time to play out. Maybe an all star, maybe an ace, maybe a platoon hitter or a spot starter. You’re not going to know until they have extended innings against AAA competition (or at least know enough to really define their value). For a franchise on the cusp of a title that also has a really bad recent history of getting its elite prospects to convey into high end MLB studs, I don’t see why any of these guys should be considered special or untouchable. And if Painter/Miller/Crawford are untouchable, then forget about adding any contributor at the deadline, because no one else in the system has value even close to order of magnitude of a proven MLB vet. No offense, who are you planning on actually getting for those guys? Because Robert Jr. is the best available OF and frankly he’s always hurt, lazy, poor teammate and has the same issues Castellanos does with chase rate. Who do you think you’re getting for giving up those guys? There’s not Soto or a tucker out there. Let me point out Cody Bellinger sat out there all freaking winter. The Phillies didn’t think he was good enough at that point to just sign him. It didn’t cost them anything but to sign him to a contract where he was going to opt out after year anyways and become a free agent again. So all it would’ve cost them was 27.5 million dollars. so they didn’t think he was worth it just to sign him but now all of a sudden he’s worth two of your best prospects? That is absolutely stupid. What makes it even dumber he’s not even playing at the same level he did last year to even warrant it. Last year you could’ve made the case it warranted it because he hit 330 had 19 home runs and 75 RBIs after July 1. So if you want to trade those guys, what player do you want to trade them for? There has to be a player out there that’s worth the value. You don’t just trade guys because you need a player right now and he’s not good enough to warrant giving up that type of prospect. The reason they gave up sixto Sanchez, who was a high prospect was because they were getting an All-Star level catcher and arguably the best in baseball. catcher is a highly coveted position. Cody Bellinger isn’t that. Chisholm isn’t that. So please tell me what guy you’re talking about that you want to give them up for? It’s easy to be like we should just give any prospect up so we can at least get somebody of value to the team now. so next year when they run Into a similar problem and they don’t have those prospect but you gave them up for a guy who you deemed wasn’t good enough then what are you gonna do? You don’t have unlimited prospects, so you better be right when you do it and it better be for the right player. Unlike Atlanta you don’t just have unlimited prospects in your system to just give up every year. Thats not where the Phillies are as an organization. then again this is all avoided if the Phillies would’ve just done what they were should have done this off-season and sign an outfield bat that cost you nothing but money on your .240 comment: chase utley who was 22 when he hit at A+ ball (miller only 20) hit .257. So I’m guessing it would’ve been OK to trade Chase Utley at that point because he was only hitting 257. Let me also point out Jimmy Rollins at rookie ball only hit 238. at A+ ball only hit 244. I guess we shouldn’t have been excited as he hit only .244. lastly Mike Schmidt in his first season in AA (at 21 years old) hit 211 for the Reading Phillies. (Also Schmidt his first full year in the major only hit .196 thank god they didn’t unload him) so there’s been some really great players in this organization that didn’t hit the ball out of the park so to speak in some of their stops along the way in the minors. But the Phillies didn’t just trade them cause of one year at the start of their career hitting .240ish
July 8, 20242 yr The one thing I would agree on is there’s no untouchable prospect. Because if there was a player like a Juan Soto out there or a Bryce Harper or Mookie betts then you’re right I would give up those players to get it. But this market there isn’t that. It’s not a great market when Robert jr who’s injury prone and a ton of other issues, Bellinger, Chisholm and rooker are the best available. It’s not bad but it’s also not world changing talent that requires unloading your farm system Let me also point out the White Sox want a Juan Soto package that the Padres gave up for Luis Robert Jr. Luis Robert Jr isn’t Juan Soto not worth that type of package.
July 8, 20242 yr 54 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said: No offense, who are you planning on actually getting for those guys? Because Robert Jr. is the best available OF and frankly he’s always hurt, lazy, poor teammate and has the same issues Castellanos does with chase rate. Who do you think you’re getting for giving up those guys? There’s not Soto or a tucker out there. Let me point out Cody Bellinger sat out there all freaking winter. The Phillies didn’t think he was good enough at that point to just sign him. It didn’t cost them anything but to sign him to a contract where he was going to opt out after year anyways and become a free agent again. So all it would’ve cost them was 27.5 million dollars. so they didn’t think he was worth it just to sign him but now all of a sudden he’s worth two of your best prospects? That is absolutely stupid. What makes it even dumber he’s not even playing at the same level he did last year to even warrant it. Last year you could’ve made the case it warranted it because he hit 330 had 19 home runs and 75 RBIs after July 1. So if you want to trade those guys, what player do you want to trade them for? There has to be a player out there that’s worth the value. You don’t just trade guys because you need a player right now and he’s not good enough to warrant giving up that type of prospect. The reason they gave up sixto Sanchez, who was a high prospect was because they were getting an All-Star level catcher and arguably the best in baseball. catcher is a highly coveted position. Cody Bellinger isn’t that. Chisholm isn’t that. So please tell me what guy you’re talking about that you want to give them up for? It’s easy to be like we should just give any prospect up so we can at least get somebody of value to the team now. so next year when they run Into a similar problem and they don’t have those prospect but you gave them up for a guy who you deemed wasn’t good enough then what are you gonna do? You don’t have unlimited prospects, so you better be right when you do it and it better be for the right player. Unlike Atlanta you don’t just have unlimited prospects in your system to just give up every year. Thats not where the Phillies are as an organization. then again this is all avoided if the Phillies would’ve just done what they were should have done this off-season and sign an outfield bat that cost you nothing but money on your .240 comment: chase utley who was 22 when he hit at A+ ball (miller only 20) hit .257. So I’m guessing it would’ve been OK to trade Chase Utley at that point because he was only hitting 257. Let me also point out Jimmy Rollins at rookie ball only hit 238. at A+ ball only hit 244. I guess we shouldn’t have been excited as he hit only .244. lastly Mike Schmidt in his first season in AA (at 21 years old) hit 211 for the Reading Phillies. (Also Schmidt his first full year in the major only hit .196 thank god they didn’t unload him) so there’s been some really great players in this organization that didn’t hit the ball out of the park so to speak in some of their stops along the way in the minors. But the Phillies didn’t just trade them cause of one year at the start of their career hitting .240ish I’m not arguing to unload these guys just because. If there is no acceptable deadline add, then keep them. I just think it’s very silly to call them untouchable. If a definitive outfield bat upgrade who is an acceptable fielder were available (and maybe that’s not available), then I would trade any one of them for that without hesitation. But no…I wouldn’t trade any of them for a random outfielder just for the hell of it. The point is that every one of them faces much longer odds of success than any of you want to admit. It would be wise to bet that Miller won’t even have 5% of the starts as a Phillie that Rollins, Utley, or Schmidt had.
July 8, 20242 yr 21 minutes ago, eagle45 said: I’m not arguing to unload these guys just because. If there is no acceptable deadline add, then keep them. I just think it’s very silly to call them untouchable. If a definitive outfield bat upgrade who is an acceptable fielder were available (and maybe that’s not available), then I would trade any one of them for that without hesitation. But no…I wouldn’t trade any of them for a random outfielder just for the hell of it. The point is that every one of them faces much longer odds of success than any of you want to admit. It would be wise to bet that Miller won’t even have 5% of the starts as a Phillie that Rollins, Utley, or Schmidt had. Bellinger could’ve been signed here without giving up anything this offseason. They made the decision they didn’t think he was worth it without giving up anything. But now he’s worth 2 great prospects? Laughable. Chisholm definitely isn’t worth that. robert’s isn’t worth what the white Sox are asking. Those are the 3. All 3 are upgraded bats and can field. None of them are worth the price if that’s the asking price. The Phillies told you that by not Fing signing Bellinger originally in FA after a monster season (his first after like 4 years) if Juan Soto or Kyle Tucker were available then people wouldn’t call them untouchable. Cause it’s worth it. People are saying that cause the market isn’t great enough to unload them to seem it worthy to take the untouchable tag off. Not saying he will reach those levels but acting like he’s on track to fail and just do it cause he’s hitting .240 at 20 is a little silly when you consider legit Star mlbs hit about the same and I’m guessing you didn’t want to trade them then Logan O’hoppe was dealt and he’s the replacement catcher for the all star game if Perez and rutschman drop out or get hurt. We NEEDED an outfield bat then in 2022. That goes right to your wheelhouse of what you are talking about. It didn’t win them a World Series. That trade looks not as great now cause marsh is a platoon OF and O’hoppe has been one of the best catchers in the AL this year and now need another outfielder cause he didn’t become what they envisioned becoming an everyday outfield.
July 8, 20242 yr 13 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said: Bellinger could’ve been signed here without giving up anything this offseason. They made the decision they didn’t think he was worth it without giving up anything. But now he’s worth 2 great prospects? Laughable. Chisholm definitely isn’t worth that. robert’s isn’t worth what the white Sox are asking. Those are the 3. All 3 are upgraded bats and can field. None of them are worth the price if that’s the asking price. The Phillies told you that by not Fing signing Bellinger originally in FA after a monster season (his first after like 4 years) if Juan Soto or Kyle Tucker were available then people wouldn’t call them untouchable. Cause it’s worth it. People are saying that cause the market isn’t great enough to unload them to seem it worthy to take the untouchable tag off. Not saying he will reach those levels but acting like he’s on track to fail and just do it cause he’s hitting .240 at 20 is a little silly when you consider legit Star mlbs hit about the same Logan O’hoppe was dealt and he’s the replacement catcher for the all star game if Perez and rutschman drop out or get hurt. We NEEDED an outfield bat then. That goes right to your wheelhouse of what you are talking about. It didn’t win them a World Series. That trade looks worse now cause marsh is a platoon OF and he’s been one of the best catchers in the AL this year. Juan Soto and Kyle Tucker have an order of magnitude different value than Andrew Painter and Miller. Even a team looking to sell them would laugh away that offer.
July 8, 20242 yr How many previous Phillies prospects from the last 20 years would you not trade for a definitive but not superstar outfield improvement? Nola, Bohm, Rhys, Stott? 4 players in 20 years?
July 8, 20242 yr 11 minutes ago, eagle45 said: Juan Soto and Kyle Tucker have an order of magnitude different value than Andrew Painter and Miller. Even a team looking to sell them would laugh away that offer. Who’s says any of us would say not give up more than that? guessing it’s costing them painter, miller, riccon, Crawford and someone like tait/abel for Soto. Which is at least worth it due to the caliber player. The white Sox are currently asking for a Soto package the padres gave up for Robert. Which is more ridiculous cause Robert’s can’t stay healthy, has Castellanos issues and chemistry issues. Bellinger and Chisholm aren’t worth painter or miller. Unless you just don’t give a crap about prospect value and only care about getting a upgrade
July 8, 20242 yr 10 minutes ago, eagle45 said: How many previous Phillies prospects from the last 20 years would you not trade for a definitive but not superstar outfield improvement? Nola, Bohm, Rhys, Stott? 4 players in 20 years? Well considering the Phillies were a dumpster fire for a decade. Meanwhile past 5 years O’hoppe, Bohm, Stott recently have all been good. I’d add Ranger Suarez with how he’s been for us. Maybe they are drafting and developing talent better under Dombrowski then they had under klentak and amaro. You’re basing on bad GMs building bad farm systems meanwhile they’ve been light years better lately
July 8, 20242 yr 1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said: Well considering the Phillies were a dumpster fire for a decade. Meanwhile past 5 years O’hoppe, Bohm, Stott recently have all been good. I’d add Ranger Suarez with how he’s been for us. Maybe they are drafting and developing talent better under Dombrowski then they had under klentak and amaro. It’s just the success rate of A ball guys that are 20. Nothing is special or different about the 2024 edition of the top prospects.
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