EMB Blog: 2023 Offseason - NO POLITICS

[Sack that QB]

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Did you miss the whole car accident?

One incident does not define a person's character.

[just relax]

20 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Hmm; I think I would have agreed a year ago. But there’s a YouTube video where Jordan talks about JC being his little brother when asked about the relationship they had in Athens. And then we heard this offseason how Howie had Jason scout his preferred centers from the draft, how Hurts had a major influence on Howie’s pursuit and ultimately negotiations with AJ (AJ said he was literally texting contract numbers to Hurts to send to Howie). Keep in mind that at that time Jalen was a 22-23 year old 1.25yr starter who almost everyone expected Howie to replace in this draft….

So Now I believe Howie will take advantage of the resources he has to make the best decision possible. Doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll do whatever JD tells him to, but it means at the very least sitting down with a face to face with former teammates when a prospect with this much value has this many weird asterisks on his evaluation.

I would be astounded if Howie had not asked Dean and Davis about Carter as a person, teammate, and player.

P.S. He turns 22 tomorrow.

[LeanMeanGM]

Should have done that

[hukdonfoniks]

4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Huh?  They're only a few months older than him.  You're not talking about Brandon Graham and Fletcher Cox.

Carter is just as likely to be a bad influence on the other two as anything else.  

Did Davis or Dean have any character concerns come up in their pre-draft process?  Did they have any issues like that in college?  They've been around Carter for years, I'm pretty sure they know how to handle themselves.

 

[Mike030270]

15 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

Pretty sure Fletcher Cox did the street racing thing at one point but no accident.  That was extremely tragic but from a football standpoint I think the red flags would be related to other things like desire and ethic.

14 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

One incident does not define a person's character.

It was his 2nd time driving recklessly. First time the cop let him go (which is insane) and the 2nd time results in a fatality and him lying to the cops about it

[Cliftoma]

6 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

It was his 2nd time driving recklessly. First time the cop let him go (which is insane) and the 2nd time results in a fatality and him lying to the cops about it

Ok.  So he's not good at driving.  Can the Eagles just hire a driver for him?  Uber?

[Sack that QB]

5 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

It was his 2nd time driving recklessly. First time the cop let him go (which is insane) and the 2nd time results in a fatality and him lying to the cops about it

Don't think you can define a person's character by a few actions. Need to sit down, get to know the person, know their history, etc. Which is what the draft process is about. Maybe he is a bad guy, but I don't believe looking at a few anecdotes and making declarations about someone is logical.

[Aerolithe_Lion]

22 minutes ago, just relax said:

I would be astounded if Howie had not asked Dean and Davis about Carter as a person, teammate, and player.

P.S. He turns 22 tomorrow.

Jalen Hurts was 22 or 23 when Howie talked to him about trading for AJ is what I was saying. But yeah, would be weird if it wasn’t brought up to current eagles who know him

[Mike030270]

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Don't think you can define a person's character by a few actions. Need to sit down, get to know the person, know their history, etc. Which is what the draft process is about. Maybe he is a bad guy, but I don't believe looking at a few anecdotes and making declarations about someone is logical.

A few actions that caused a death? I'm not trying to change your mind. You seem pretty set and don't seem to change. Although I am curious why you think he's worth the risk

[wussbasket]

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Don't think you can define a person's character by a few actions. Need to sit down, get to know the person, know their history, etc. Which is what the draft process is about. Maybe he is a bad guy, but I don't believe looking at a few anecdotes and making declarations about someone is logical.

He was previously pulled over for doing 90 in a 45 before his latest incident. Obviously it didn't teach him any lesson as a few months later he is street racing again which leads to the death of 2 individuals. He left the scene of the crash and texted his buddies to go to the crash. Police asked his buddies why they were there and how they knew about it and they all pointed to Carter. Carter was asked to come back to the scene and he pretended he didn't even know who was in the crashed vehicle or who the victims even were. He didn't stop to help. He didn't call 911 to even report it. He texted his buddies first, that was his reaction to a car filled with people he knew that ended up in a ditch after racing at high speeds.

Now he's refusing to interview or visit teams outside of the top 10? Is he trying to hide or prevent more **** behavior from leaking?

That's the guy you want to draft at 10? Someone that puts himself first and doesn't care about his teammates?

 

[Sack that QB]

1 minute ago, Mike030270 said:

A few actions that caused a death? I'm not trying to change your mind. You seem pretty set and don't seem to change. Although I am curious why you think he's worth the risk

I don't know if he is or isn't worth the risk. I don't really have an opinion on it. I'm saying the Eagles need to make that call by meeting with him and doing their research on him as a person. And if they determine from their research character isn't a major concern, then they have to take him if he falls to 10 and they evaluate him as an elite talent.

I don't believe you can make the call on someone by these incidents. One of the things I've learned over the years is to not rush to judgement on people. It doesn't accomplish anything. Maybe he's a bad guy and these incidents are indicative of that, but us outsiders simply don't know whether he is or isn't. Maybe he's a guy with a long history of being an upstanding person who hit a rough patch in his life where he lost his way. Maybe he's always been this way and he's been a bad guy. We simply don't know. It's not up to me to judge.

[pgcd3]

1 minute ago, Sack that QB said:

I don't know if he is or isn't worth the risk. I don't really have an opinion on it. I'm saying the Eagles need to make that call by meeting with him and doing their research on him as a person. And if they determine from their research character isn't a major concern, then they have to take him if he falls to 10 and they evaluate him as an elite talent.

I don't believe you can make the call on someone by these incidents. One of the things I've learned over the years is to not rush to judgement on people. It doesn't accomplish anything. Maybe he's a bad guy and these incidents are indicative of that, but us outsiders simply don't know whether he is or isn't. Maybe he's a guy with a long history of being an upstanding person who hit a rough patch in his life where he lost his way. Maybe he's always been this way and he's been a bad guy. We simply don't know. It's not up to me to judge.

Right he could be a terrible person all around. Or he could be a young person who likes to race his car which while extremely dangerous is probably fairly common amongst the testosterone overloaded young athletes. Is he a worse person because of a tragic result? Panicking at the accident is bad but not exactly unique either.  It's certainly all concerning and needs more investigation which what they are doing. 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

21 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I don't know if he is or isn't worth the risk. I don't really have an opinion on it. I'm saying the Eagles need to make that call by meeting with him and doing their research on him as a person. And if they determine from their research character isn't a major concern, then they have to take him if he falls to 10 and they evaluate him as an elite talent.

I don't believe you can make the call on someone by these incidents. One of the things I've learned over the years is to not rush to judgement on people. It doesn't accomplish anything. Maybe he's a bad guy and these incidents are indicative of that, but us outsiders simply don't know whether he is or isn't. Maybe he's a guy with a long history of being an upstanding person who hit a rough patch in his life where he lost his way. Maybe he's always been this way and he's been a bad guy. We simply don't know. It's not up to me to judge.

Here’s an interesting Question: 

We don’t know exactly how bad (or overblown) Jalen’s Carter issues are, but he’s never been accused of a violent crime, never had drug issues, never been arrested before the street racing incident. If you’re at 10 and you could either get:

A: High character guy who is not a top 10 caliber prospect but the teams is comfortable with him even with his limited ceiling

or..

B: Top 5 prospect who is somehow still there at 10 due to unanswered offseason character questions.

 

Can’t trade out. Which are you more comfortable taking? In my opinion, The pick is too valuable to spend it on a lesser prospect, you have to roll the dice and hope your team culture works out the kinks. The Randy Mosses, Ndamukong Suhs, the Cam Newtons, Warren Sapps had bigger character concerns than Jalen. But they weren’t DV repeat offenders or alcoholic maniacs, they were worth the risk due to sheer talent. It’s the reality of running an enterprise based on people hitting each other on the head over and over again.

A dominant pass rushing iDL is one of the rarest things to find in the entire NFL, and Top 10 talents change the NFL landscape. A top-25 guy taken at 10 likely won’t.

[just relax]

I think it a tribute to Howie that at this stage no one seems sure as to whom he will draft. While we may have needs we are not desperate anywhere.

[HazletonEagle]

[Mike030270]

6 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I don't know if he is or isn't worth the risk. I don't really have an opinion on it. I'm saying the Eagles need to make that call by meeting with him and doing their research on him as a person. And if they determine from their research character isn't a major concern, then they have to take him if he falls to 10 and they evaluate him as an elite talent.

I don't believe you can make the call on someone by these incidents. One of the things I've learned over the years is to not rush to judgement on people. It doesn't accomplish anything. Maybe he's a bad guy and these incidents are indicative of that, but us outsiders simply don't know whether he is or isn't. Maybe he's a guy with a long history of being an upstanding person who hit a rough patch in his life where he lost his way. Maybe he's always been this way and he's been a bad guy. We simply don't know. It's not up to me to judge.

So how would you feel if he's there and Howie doesn't draft him?

Just now, pgcd3 said:

Right he could be a terrible person all around. Or he could be a young person who likes to race his car which while extremely dangerous is probably fairly common amongst the testosterone overloaded young athletes. Is he a worse person because of a tragic result? Panicking at the accident is bad but not exactly unique either.  It's certainly all concerning and needs more investigation which what they are doing. 

It happened recently after he had already been warned by police to slow down. Plus it was at a time where he should be thinking about the draft and not putting himself in positions where something like this could happen

[bitbased]

2 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Here’s an interesting Question: 

We don’t know exactly how bad (or overblown) Jalen’s Carter issues are, but he’s never been accused of a violent crime, never had drug issues, never been arrested before the street racing incident. If you’re at 10 and you could either get:

A: High character guy who is not a top 10 caliber prospect but the teams is comfortable with him even with his limited ceiling

or..

B: Top 5 prospect who is somehow still there at 10 due to unanswered offseason character questions.

 

Can’t trade out. Which are you more comfortable taking? In my opinion, The pick is too valuable to spend it on a lesser prospect, you have to roll the dice. Top 10 picks change the NFL landscape, a top 25 guy taken at 10 likely won’t.

He's also seen as lazy outside of all of the current legal issues as well. He showed up to his pro day heavy and gassed out doing drill work.

[NCiggles]

23 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

It was his 2nd time driving recklessly. First time the cop let him go (which is insane) and the 2nd time results in a fatality and him lying to the cops about it

It shows poor impulse control and poor judgment. It may show that he does not have a good support system.   People driving way too fast in cars isn't necessarily evidence that a person cannot grow into a responsible adult.    It's not evidence that's he's a sociopath.  

[Cliftoma]

7 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Here’s an interesting Question: 

We don’t know exactly how bad (or overblown) Jalen’s Carter issues are, but he’s never been accused of a violent crime, never had drug issues, never been arrested before the street racing incident. If you’re at 10 and you could either get:

A: High character guy who is not a top 10 caliber prospect but the teams is comfortable with him even with his limited ceiling

or..

B: Top 5 prospect who is somehow still there at 10 due to unanswered offseason character questions.

 

Can’t trade out. Which are you more comfortable taking? In my opinion, The pick is too valuable to spend it on a lesser prospect, you have to roll the dice and hope your team culture works out the kinks. The Randy Mosses, the Cam Newtons, Warren Sapps had bigger character concerns than Jalen. The Top 10 talentd change the NFL landscape, a top 25 guy taken at 10 likely won’t.

Let's not forget that before the incident came to light it was almost consensus that Carter was the best prospect in the draft and would be competing with Anderson to be top non QB   

[Sack that QB]

Just now, Mike030270 said:

So how would you feel if he's there and Howie doesn't draft him?

It happened recently after he had already been warned by police to slow down. Plus it was at a time where he should be thinking about the draft and not putting himself in positions where something like this could happen

I'd be fine with it, they know more about him than me.

Then we can judge down the road whether it was the correct decision or not based on how he performs.

[greendestiny27]

45 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Should have done that

Wow, I don't get the whole safety and linebacker outlook right now. Easily should have done that. 

[Mike030270]

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

It shows poor impulse control and poor judgment. It may show that he does not have a good support system.   People driving way too fast in cars isn't necessarily evidence that a person cannot grow into a responsible adult.    It's not evidence that's he's a sociopath.  

He's lucky he didn't get ticketed for reckless driving the first time and gone to jail

Edit: Although that may have saved lives

[NCiggles]

11 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I don't know if he is or isn't worth the risk. I don't really have an opinion on it. I'm saying the Eagles need to make that call by meeting with him and doing their research on him as a person. And if they determine from their research character isn't a major concern, then they have to take him if he falls to 10 and they evaluate him as an elite talent.

I don't believe you can make the call on someone by these incidents. One of the things I've learned over the years is to not rush to judgement on people. It doesn't accomplish anything. Maybe he's a bad guy and these incidents are indicative of that, but us outsiders simply don't know whether he is or isn't. Maybe he's a guy with a long history of being an upstanding person who hit a rough patch in his life where he lost his way. Maybe he's always been this way and he's been a bad guy. We simply don't know. It's not up to me to judge.

I couldn't agree more. It looks like the Eagles are doing their homework on him.  I don't think they would pass on him lightly given his talent.  If they do pass on him, that tells me a lot.  The FO values DT and especially the ability to bring interior pressure.  If they pass over him,  the Eagles believe their culture and veteran leadership will not be enought to help him be successful.  He would be going into a group with 2 very good established veterans (Cox and Graham) and a former teammate.  If that's not enough, that says a lot about him. 

My guess is that Rosenhaus believes the Eagles won't pass on him which is the only explaination for the statement.  

[pgcd3]

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

So how would you feel if he's there and Howie doesn't draft him?

It happened recently after he had already been warned by police to slow down. Plus it was at a time where he should be thinking about the draft and not putting himself in positions where something like this could happen

I get it and I suspect there are probably more red flags that would take him off the list.  But what you are saying there is that a kid who was driving too fast was warned that he was driving too fast and did it again. You are judging that more harshly because of the result which while understandable isn't really right.  If he had 2 reckless driving tickets would he be taken off draft boards?

[Aerolithe_Lion]

10 minutes ago, bitbased said:

He's also seen as lazy outside of all of the current legal issues as well. He showed up to his pro day heavy and gassed out doing drill work.

Was he considered lazy before his pro day? Is it at all possible it is related to the fact he witnessed 2 people he was close to die right in front of him? I don’t think he was hanging out with them because he had too. People grieve in many different ways.

This is not my personal opinion, I have no idea what’s going on. But there are many scenarios where this or isn’t as bad as the optics indicate. Surely his handlers were aware he had gained THAT much weight after the combine. It’s not some guy sitting on his couch and last minute deciding to walk onto an SEC pro day. He’s got Drew Rosenhaus who’ll put trainers with him, nutritionists, everything possible to milk every last penny out of getting him drafted just 1 spot higher than his competitor’s representee.

Theres a lot we don’t know, maybe the guy collects heads on sticks, or maybe there’s a rational reason for why things are unfolding in the way that appears to be self-inflicted character assassination.
 

Will make the draft that much more dramatic and entertaining. This is my favorite time of the year, maybe more than watching the actual games.