22 minutes ago, TEW said:

Disagree.

The world was stable because the world was scared shitless of Trump. There’s an anecdote where he was negotiating with (I think — going off memory) the Taliban and he straight up pulled the GPS coordinates of the leaders families and told them he’d kill everyone they’d ever known if they didn’t get in line. No one wanted to F with him because they knew he’d F them up 10 times worse. That’s why Putin waited for him to leave office.

But you can look at COVID and his response and it was a resounding success. Operation warp speed was a miracle. The economy did relatively well under arguably the most trying time in history.

I wish he were in office instead of Biden — Ukraine wouldn’t have been invaded. That’s for damn sure.

LOL no.

4 minutes ago, Lambo said:

At least we can still agree and take comfort in something

 

Back to the issues that truly matter!

15 minutes ago, binkybink77 said:

Funny you say that. I was about to post how whenever he would like my posts I would feel deeply uncomfortable. Thanks to you guys for taking custody of him! 

You get uncomfortable when an old r a c i s t dirtbag likes your posts?

5 minutes ago, paco said:

That's going to be a tough sell though. Too many people see buying into that platform as giving them a moral high ground and then make that their whole identity.

Being a part of the anti-Trump party gives me the moral high ground and I will never be convinced otherwise. But Democrats fail when their own agenda is tested. Trump wasn't president these past four years. So when they have to run on the minority identity policy platform instead of riding the anti-Trump wave they coalesce around someone like Kamala who is, by any measure, a weak candidate with zero ability to do anything other than read what's on the teleprompter. Biden, if he wasn't so old, could have at least got up there and had a serious talk with the American people and defended his agenda and put forward a semi-serious plan for the next four years.

1 minute ago, paco said:

You get uncomfortable when an old boob dirtbag likes your posts?

I get uncomfortable when ray-cist => boob swaps makes posts borderline sexy.

4 minutes ago, paco said:

Maybe I should have worded it better......

The Maga cult isn't 71,579,630 voters (and counting) strong.  Trump has that base in there for sure, but there area  LOT of people who full on reject what the democrats were selling especially against the backdrop of how poorly 2021-2024 went under the Biden administration.

But there are many that will incorrectly reject that notion and fully believe that 71,579,630 voters (and counting) are full blown boob, misogynistic, sexist, NDSAP Maga cultists.  Which will make it difficult for them to flush the current platform and move to something like you suggest, which I agree 100% with.

70 million sided with the stupid cult over woke. Not good.  We deserve what we get.

Just now, mayanh8 said:

Being a part of the anti-Trump party gives me the moral high ground and I will never be convinced otherwise. But Democrats fail when their own agenda is tested. Trump wasn't president these past four years. So when they have to run on the minority identity policy platform instead of riding the anti-Trump wave they coalesce around someone like Kamala who is, by any measure, a weak candidate with zero ability to do anything other than read what's on the teleprompter. Biden, if he wasn't so old, could have at least got up there and had a serious talk with the American people and defended his agenda and put forward a semi-serious plan for the next four years.

🤡

6 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

You joke until you're forced to do some hard labor

  
 

As if any of this had any possibility of becoming reality… please, take a Xanax and hug your dog.  

 

4 minutes ago, paco said:

Maybe I should have worded it better......

The Maga cult isn't 71,579,630 voters (and counting) strong.  Trump has that base in there for sure, but there area  LOT of people who full on reject what the democrats were selling especially against the backdrop of how poorly 2021-2024 went under the Biden administration.

But there are many that will incorrectly reject that notion and fully believe that 71,579,630 voters (and counting) are full blown boob, misogynistic, sexist, NDSAP Maga cultists.  Which will make it difficult for them to flush the current platform and move to something like you suggest, which I agree 100% with.

dems worry too much about offending the small % of their party on the far left. like 85% of people agree that biologically born men should not compete in sports against women. yet that commercial aired about 30,000 times with no pushback from the dems. they also over-do the woke stuff to the point of vilifying white people...especially men. hell, my kid goes to temple & there are a few "woke" type classes he has to take. he's 1 of 2 straight, white guys in the class and would never dare to raise his hand in class because he's afraid of saying the wrong thing & getting ganged up on. he knows how to play the game to get through the class but it shouldn't be that way. it's too extreme. 

dems got killed on social issues like that. they alienate too many voters. 

1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

dems worry too much about offending the small % of their party on the far left. like 85% of people agree that biologically born men should not compete in sports against women. yet that commercial aired about 30,000 times with no pushback from the dems. they also over-do the woke stuff to the point of vilifying white people...especially men. hell, my kid goes to temple & there are a few "woke" type classes he has to take. he's 1 of 2 straight, white guys in the class and would never dare to raise his hand in class because he's afraid of saying the wrong thing & getting ganged up on. he knows how to play the game to get through the class but it shouldn't be that way. it's too extreme. 

dems got killed on social issues like that. they alienate too many voters. 

Completely agree with both your and @mayanh8's position on this.

6 minutes ago, Procus said:

🤡

Don't expect me to come here and say I should have voted for Trump because Harris lost in a landslide. I'm willing to concede that I'm now in the minority in this country on that issue. Beating that orange bufoon in a general election should literally be one of the easiest things any political party should ever do. The fact that the Democrat party couldn't do it is an indictment of them, not me.

She lost to an actual criminal. That's insane

3 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

Being a part of the anti-Trump party gives me the moral high ground and I will never be convinced otherwise. But Democrats fail when their own agenda is tested. Trump wasn't president these past four years. So when they have to run on the minority identity policy platform instead of riding the anti-Trump wave they coalesce around someone like Kamala who is, by any measure, a weak candidate with zero ability to do anything other than read what's on the teleprompter. Biden, if he wasn't so old, could have at least got up there and had a serious talk with the American people and defended his agenda and put forward a semi-serious plan for the next four years.

Listen to the MAGA comments here. Read the room. There was nothing Biden could do to convince MAGA he was a success. Everyone who wants a job has one. Infrastructure passed and is rebuilding America. The economy is booming and is the envy of the world. All failures according to MAGA. They want it different, so we are going to get it different whether we like it or not. 

11 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

LOL no.

LOL yes

1 minute ago, toolg said:

Listen to the MAGA comments here. Read the room. There was nothing Biden could do to convince MAGA he was a success. Everyone who wants a job has one. Infrastructure passed and is rebuilding America. The economy is booming and is the envy of the world. All failures according to MAGA. They want it different, so we are going to get it different whether we like it or not. 

I'm not going to sit here and try to convince anyone that Biden had a successful four years. That's for the country to decide and they did. I have my opinion and clearly it's not one that's shared with the majority of voters. 

4 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

I'm not going to sit here and try to convince anyone that Biden had a successful four years. That's for the country to decide and they did. I have my opinion and clearly it's not one that's shared with the majority of voters. 

We have objective metrics to determine the health of an economy. But we found out that understanding those metrics is too high a bar for a majority of Americans. 

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

We have objective metrics to determine the health of an economy. But we found out that understanding those metrics is too high a bar for a majority of Americans. 

it really is. most people don't pay attn to the crap we post on here every day. they go by grocery prices & gas prices....that's it. 

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

We have objective metrics to determine the health of an economy. But we've learned that understanding those metrics is too high a bar for a majority of Americans. 

Populism won them over, so populism is what we get.

Biggest questions going forward, in my mind

1. Who is going to serve in this cabinet? Trump basically chased away experienced, temperate and qualified Republicans from his administration last time; by the end, it was made up primarily of Trump loyalists. Putting aside the insane ideas like RFK Jr. as head of he FDA, who steps into these roles? I'm guessing Vance will be heavily involved in the transition (likely runs it), so I'd expect a lot of his people in cabinet positions. The most intriguing question to me is... 

2. Does Lina Khan survive as head of the FTC? Under a traditional GOP administration, she'd be the first one fired. But Vance seems to be a fan of hers (https://nypost.com/2024/10/15/us-news/j-d-vance-hints-elon-musk-and-lina-khan-could-be-in-trump-admin-i-agree-with-them-both-on-some-issues/), and her focus on breaking up big tech will be appealing to Trump. Dumping her is what Wall Street wants, but guys like Thiel want her attacking big tech. This one will be fascinating.

3. Does he really do the tariffs? I think he clearly wants to, and the question will be can responsible adults stop him? If he does enact the tariffs, the resulting inflation and economic slowdown will be painful. Just have to hope those around him keep this to bluster only.

4. How screwed is Ukraine? Trump will likely try and force Zelensky to give up material territorial concessions by threatening to cut aid. It's simply a question of how much territory Russia gains. I'd expect this to happen fast.

5. Does Israel get more of a green light with Iran? I'd expect Trump to back Bibi in getting more aggressive with Iran, including targeting nuclear facilities.

6. NATO? Who the eff knows.

15 minutes ago, toolg said:

70 million sided with the stupid cult over woke. Not good.  We deserve what we get.

Woke wasn’t the big issue, though obviously it didn’t help.

Exit polls were basically:

Economy/cost of living

immigration

Change in DC

As it turns out, you can’t gaslight tens of millions of people into thinking the economy is great and inflation is low, that ten million illegal immigrants destroying neighborhoods is a good thing, and that a continuation of these policies is desirable.

The US has moderated DRASTICALLY on social issues in my life time. Take the woke stuff from an 11 to 7 and most people would brush it off.

But you can’t piss on their leg and tell them it’s raining. 

this is why she lost:

31 minutes ago, paco said:

Maybe I should have worded it better......

The Maga cult isn't 71,579,630 voters (and counting) strong.  Trump has that base in there for sure, but there are a LOT of people who full on reject what the democrats were selling especially against the backdrop of how poorly 2021-2024 went under the Biden administration.

But there are many that will incorrectly reject that notion and fully believe that 71,579,630 voters (and counting) are full blown boob, misogynistic, sexist, NDSAP Maga cultists.  Which will make it difficult for them to flush the current platform and move to something like you suggest, which I agree 100% with.

This is where you and I will probably never agree. I believe with everything in my entire being that the off color sh** Trump says comes from a place of hatred and bigotry. It's something I feel deeply and I've seen enough people who served under him come out publicly and validate my gut instinct. Because of that, and the fact that I think he might do irreparable harm to the country if he's ever truly tested, I can never vote for him.

And while I may not think that a Trump voter is a "full blown boob, misogynistic, sexist, NDSAP" I think they care less about those things and I can't in good conscience be OK with that.

1 minute ago, TEW said:

Woke wasn’t the big issue, though obviously it didn’t help.

Exit polls were basically:

Economy/cost of living

immigration

Change in DC

As it turns out, you can’t gaslight tens of millions of people into thinking the economy is great and inflation is low, that ten million illegal immigrants destroying neighborhoods is a good thing, and that a continuation of these policies is desirable.

The US has moderated DRASTICALLY on social issues in my life time. Take the woke stuff from an 11 to 7 and most people would brush it off.

But you can’t piss on their leg and tell them it’s raining. 

This wasn't really about anything Trump did, as he has no actual solutions to the problems people say they care about (inflation, illegal immigration). This was a rejection of the Biden administration. When 2/3rds of the country thinks you're on the wrong track, it should be impossible for the incumbent party to win. That's Jimmy Carter territory. The only reason it was competitive was because of Trump's...baggage. Any sane Republican wins bigger.