1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 it’s not concerning about having to start him with what his first 3 years have looked like? Anyone saying it’s a given he becomes mikell or even Epps is playing a game you can play with a ton of players if we wanted to. Could make the case for davion Taylor if we want to do that. Also people were concerned with Epps last offseason as well. And ditto with mikell who had more talent in front of him when he got into the league so it made sense why it took him longer to get there. He was buried  the eagles tried to give wallace the job in 2021 and he was bad so aging Harris/mcleod got it. Then he was not good last year in preseason/TC they had Blankenship pass him on the depth chart as the main backup and traded for CJGJ. I think those moves tell a lot about how the eagles felt about him last year and even 2021 having to start Harris 

We can compare mikell and Epps with wallace. Why not graham with Barnett then? Barnett had 21.5 sacks after 6 years in the nfl and dealt with injuries. Graham had 23.5 sacks and dealt with injuries. Graham didn’t start 10 or more games til year 6 and not 16 until year 7. So if Barnett had to start would you not be concerned? And would we still make that same point comparing Graham’s journey to get there to Barnett? Likely not. 

You are applying hyperbole to a pedestrian situation.  As Franklin said "it’s August!”

In my not so humble opinion there is a time and place for being concerned, and that time doesn’t arrive until October 1.  However, I realize I’m in the minority with that opinion.  Prior to October 1 I defer to the coaches. Also by October 1 I have actually been able to see the players actually play.

30 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

6 tackles against TEN, with a few of them on probably the hardest RB in the league to bring down. Of course, super small sample size but I thought he looked pretty good in that game, which was where he got most of his snaps on D.

uhm he only "tackled" Henry 1x where he grabbed his leg as Henry fell for 4 more yards in 4 other Eagle defenders...then starting making some plays when the backups came in for the Titans...might as well been preseason. Better than nothing but nothing encouraging there

27 minutes ago, mattwill said:

You are applying hyperbole to a pedestrian situation.  As Franklin said "it’s August!”

In my not so humble opinion tThere is a time and place for being concerned, and that time doesn’t arrive until October 1.  However, I realize I’m in the minority with that opinion.  Prior to October 1 I defer to the coaches. Also by October 1 I have actually been able to see the players actually play.

So are you saying Barnett is pedestrian meanwhile wallace who’s proven less is given the benefit of the doubt? 

don’t think the eagles schedule they have the luxury to send Wallace out there until October 1 to figure out he’s good or bad. Their schedule of at KC, vs. Buffalo, vs. niners, at Dallas and at Seahawks doesn’t allow for you to struggle early in the season and still get homefield advantage. Don’t want be putting yourself in a hole st safety when linebacker is also a concern. So much so the eagles signed 2 linebackers yesterday. 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not you but in general when someone says well mikell and Epps did it as it’s like the norm bothers me. I can name guys like lindley, marsh, jarrett and Reynolds that didn’t make it long term when they tried it. I just think it’s a game where you can put one or two of the rarities and can apply that to any player. Again it could happen but the odds aren’t in your favor and reasonable to to be concerned about it.  

Again not you, but go look at Barnett’s first 6 years and Graham’s first 6. Both missed time with injuries. Barnett played 65 games and graham 80. sack totals (graham 23.5 to Barnett 21.5), TFL (36 for Barnett vs. 38 for graham) and Qb hits (Barnett 78 vs. graham 43). yet no one talking about comparing Graham’s path with Barnett. So if someone said i don’t believe barnett made the strides to be an impact starter, is someone going to say look at what Graham did? Probably not. 

No one said it’s the norm.  That was your reading of what was said.  All that was said was it was/is a possibility given two specific examples.  As @ToastJenkins said more players bust than hit … even 1st rounders.

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’m fine if people want to be optimistic. However i find it concerning based off what we’ve seen over 3 years that you’d have wallace and Blankenship as your starters. I like Blankenship but even he isn’t fully proven yet and gives me concern that they’d be paired up together and both have limited starting experience.

my bigger issue is when we randomly throw out guys who did do it. Meanwhile i can do the same thing the other way with guys they tried and didn’t. So what exactly are we doing? Cause it can go both directions. Just guessing, probably more names that have not be able too then have. Why i said find it hard to believe he could and why i was concerned

like I’ve said I’d be thrilled if he does. I loved him coming out but not going off just Tc practices and snaps to justify we shouldn’t be concerned if he’s starting week 1

My question to you is "what do you accomplish by being concerned?”  (1) It’s August and (2) what Eagles action have you actually seen with your own eyes?  
 

Step back from the precipice. 

59 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’m fine if he’s a backup or third S. However it’s still super concerning if he’s starting week 1. Offseason activities and Tc don’t erase his 3 previous years. That’s why i said it was concerning if he starts week 1 and imo mikell/Epps are less likely to happen and aren’t the norm so why i said I’d be surprised if he made those strides based off his first 3 years. 
 
 But again i don’t think people would bring up Graham’s journey to get to where he is with Barnett and say he could be a viable starter in the model of graham like wallace in the mold of mikell. And if you look at their first 6 years it’s actually pretty similar. Missed time with injuries (80 vs. 65 games). sacks 23.5 vs. 21.5 (favors graham). TFL 38 vs. 36 favor if graham. Qb hits 78 vs. 43 favor of Barnett. Yet if eagles had Barnett with first team taking reps I’m guessing if graham/sweat was hurt likely few would’ve brought up graham comp due to how their careers began and most would say they were concerned if he’s starting going into week 1 (hypothetically if sweat/graham were hurt or  or not in the picture)

he could be Epps and mikell. He also could be jarrett, marsh, lindley and Ed Reynolds. That type of game can be played both ways. Don’t have the numbers but it’s likely we come up with more guys who have failed than succeed in what mikell and Epps did. I think mikell and Epps are less the norm which is why people would be concerned. If i said the 4 names i just mentioned back to Matt does that make my point just as valid as his mikell and Epps argument? 

You confuse "argument” with "examples of possibilities”

I haven’t been watching all the camp reports, as I find that they are more misdirection and lead me further from an understanding of what’s going on than I was before tuning in/reading.

But hasn’t Dean been day to day with an injury?  I do think it’s premature to pin much disappointment on him.  Not to mention, they still need depth and one other starter.  Signing 2 vets short notice is a vote of no confidence in the position, but ideally it’s not all about Dean.

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

To be fair to BLG, TJ Edwards would make plays in camp. White did too. Even Elliss has. Maybe Dean is just a gamer, but BLG has been talking about how invisible Dean has been in practices since last year. 

Nakobe Dean's strengths don't show up as much watching live: calling the defense, being good in coverage so he doesn't get thrown at, designed blitzes, etc.

He still might bust because of his size, but given he played well in limited snaps last year and was an all-time great college player, I'm not worried.

 

37 minutes ago, mattwill said:

No one said it’s the norm.  That was your reading of what was said.  All that was said was it was/is a possibility given two specific examples.  As @ToastJenkins said more players bust than hit … even 1st rounders.

I can throw Reynolds, lindley, marsh and jarrett.  If i did what would your interpretation be of me doing so? That Wallace fits into that category with them. So when you say how did Epps and mikell come along most will interpret as more of a possibility. It’s not. They are less the norm  

33 minutes ago, mattwill said:

My question to you is "what do you accomplish by being concerned?”  (1) It’s August and (2) what Eagles action have you actually seen with your own eyes?  
 

Step back from the precipice. 

I don’t live in the world where things don’t concern me until October 1. Their scheduled is much harder this year. you have at Kansas City, home against Buffalo, home and get the Niners, at Dallas, and then at Seattle for five weeks later in the year. I don’t think the Eagles have a luxury this year of stumbling early in the season and safety position doesn’t exactly have a proven track record with experience nor significant playing time over a full season besides edmunds who’s not even with first team during reps. Curious you don’t think the Eagles were concerned yesterday when they signed 2 linebackers? Cause i do. So clearly myaelf and the eagles can be concerned about something now 

also cause the eagles have never been wrong on something heading into camp or the season? They also thought seumalo his second year was competent to start and he wound up being replaced by week 2. Or peters would naturally be able to play guard. Or rasul Douglas wasn’t worth keeping. They aren’t perfect so yes you can be concerned 

seen wallace for 3 years not be good. What action have you seen with your own eyes to suggest he becomes as good as Epps or mikell. cause it’s certainly not what you’ve seen with your own eyes when he’s played. 

27 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Cult flyers fans have notoriously been the worst with prospects. Almost all were untouchable or superstars at some point. I think Phillies fans cause of years of letdowns by some prospects and deals where prospects never panned out are usually more realistic with expectations of their own. Heck even this year Phillies fans were really down on bohm for a while.  

Do you actually listen to fans?

26 minutes ago, mattwill said:

You confuse "argument” with "examples of possibilities”

And I gave you four players and I can mention more where they’ve done the opposite mikell and Epps. So there’s cause of concern cause there’s more of them then what you named of the two. And i don’t believe the eagles can afford to wait til October 1st to make decisions like you seem to think. 

10 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Do you actually listen to fans?

Yeah on Twitter, radio, flyers message board and even on here in the flyers thread. Was routinely that. I suggest you go find  flyers threads on emb, Twitter, radio during that time and other message boards. It wasn’t just fans. Things said by the flyers organization also pumped their own prospects up to unreasonable level 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not you but in general when someone says well mikell and Epps did it as it’s like the norm bothers me. I can name guys like lindley, marsh, jarrett and Reynolds that didn’t make it long term when they tried it. I just think it’s a game where you can put one or two of the rarities and can apply that to any player. Again it could happen but the odds aren’t in your favor and reasonable to to be concerned about it.  

Again not you, but go look at Barnett’s first 6 years and Graham’s first 6. Both missed time with injuries. Barnett played 65 games and graham 80. sack totals (graham 23.5 to Barnett 21.5), TFL (36 for Barnett vs. 38 for graham) and Qb hits (Barnett 78 vs. graham 43). yet no one talking about comparing Graham’s path with Barnett. So if someone said i don’t believe barnett made the strides to be an impact starter, is someone going to say look at what Graham did? Probably not. 

I only posted because it was being put forward as a foregone conclusion that there was no way it was even remotely possible that he could make a jump from forgotten to a starter.  So, I put forward a counter example to show a player that was a complete washout (3rd round pick) for 7 seasons, bounced to multiple teams, but when teamed up with the right coach and the right system, far exceeded all expectations.  That's not to say that it is likely by any means that Wallace could have that kind of renaissance, just that it's possible.  And aligning with the Mathis/Mudd situation, the Eagles now have a new DC and new DB coach.  So, they might be able to get more out of him than the previous pair. 

I think we can all agree that Gannon's system left something to be wanting in its effectiveness, especially against the pass.  Maybe that was due to asking the safeties to do things that they weren't capable of, while ignoring what they were capable of.  The best coaches always find ways to maximize their players.  I'm hopeful that our new defensive coaches are able to get more out of the back end than Gannon, et al.  

 

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

I can appreciate the desire for optimism, but fear that sets up for far more pain in the longrun

Much like the coaches, i would play probabilities over possibilities

Unlike the coaches, I have no power to make the outcome change one way or the other.  So, I don't get to play the probabilities or the possibilities.  I just have to sit and watch and hope for the best.  If they are terrible, the pain will come either way.  But they are coming off a very surprising season that I didn't anticipate... and I was waiting for the bottom to fall out from under them.  It never did.  So, perhaps now I am letting the pendulum swing too far the other way.  So be it.   Only a few weeks left before we get to see for ourselves.

 

Go BIRDS!!! 

🦅 🦅

I smell a lawsuit

32 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

So are you saying Barnett is pedestrian meanwhile wallace who’s proven less is given the benefit of the doubt? 

don’t think the eagles schedule they have the luxury to send Wallace out there until October 1 to figure out he’s good or bad. Their schedule of at KC, vs. Buffalo, vs. niners, at Dallas and at Seahawks doesn’t allow for you to struggle early in the season and still get homefield advantage. Don’t want be putting yourself in a hole st safety when linebacker is also a concern. So much so the eagles signed 2 linebackers yesterday. 

The players aren’t pedestrian.  The timing of where we are is pedestrian.  

6 minutes ago, mattwill said:

The players aren’t pedestrian.  The timing of where we are is pedestrian.  

You can still be concerned now about. It. I’ve been concerned since CJGJ left. This magic date you’ve made of October 1st is great if it works for you. Doesn’t mean it does for everyone else. 

@mattwillyou can keep replying. I’m out and not going to keep replying as I’m over it. We don’t see eye to eye on this at all or about when concerns can start. 

Let's wait and see until the likes of Dean play in the pre-season before judging too much,  New scheme + less press/fan access = a big ole mystery.  It's not helped that Dean has got dinged.

Meanwhile, at Cowboys camp

 

33 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I can throw Reynolds, lindley, marsh and jarrett.  If i did what would your interpretation be of me doing so?

I don’t live in the world where things don’t concern me until October 1.

Regarding your first question above, I would have no interpretation of you whatsoever.  I would acknowledge that those are valid examples of the almost infinite number of possibilities.

Regarding your final statement, that is clear.  My question to you is "what does having that concern but you?  Do you sleep better at night because you have that concern?  Are you more productive at work because you have that concern?”

For me, life is too good to waste it on concerns or worries.

7 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Regarding your first question above, I would have no interpretation of you whatsoever.  I would acknowledge that those are valid examples of the almost infinite number of possibilities.

Regarding you final statement, that is clear.  My question to you is "what does having that concern but you?  Do you sleep better at night because you have that concern?  Are you more productive at work because you have that concern?”

For me, life is too good to waste it on concerns or worries.

Whatever you say Matt.

Because I’m a fan that cares about them winning football games and actually winning a Super Bowl this year. Linebacker and safety are concerns. They are weak links at the moment. That’s why I’m concerned. may not matter as much to you to talk about it in august but that’s why we have a emb to do so 

and with that I’m done with this convo. Have a good day 

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Hope isnt a plan

It works for some people.

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

It works for some people.

Can the Eagles upgrade from Wallace at safety?

"Yes we can!"

13 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

They don’t have any Wills unless you count Greedy Williams. Mikes is an even bigger stretch. Closest we got is Mekhi Garner. 

So Myles Jack was a Jag but is he a J A G?

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Whatever you say Matt.

Because I’m a fan that cares about them winning football games and actually winning a Super Bowl this year. Linebacker and safety are concerns. They are weak links at the moment. That’s why I’m concerned. may not matter as much to you. 

and with that I’m done with this convo. Have a good day 

We come from different eras.  One of the icons for me when growing up was 

Sums up everything from camp so far.