Fate of Former Eagles

[time2rock]

41 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I'm not a huge Carson Wentz fan but the idea he isn't a better QB as a spot starter than Cooper Rush is a huge stretch, the only reason Cooper Rush has a job is that he's not as awful as that Dinucci guy they played against us a couple of years ago.

With Wentz it isn't justy about his talent.  I would take Rush over Wentz because of the reports of the disruption to locker room chemistry in his past few stops.  

[Mat]

The reason the Rams would make sense for him is the coach in McVay. Having said that, the Rams had a disaster of an offensive line right? Between Stafford and Wentz they will lead the league in turnovers and missed games if they're still trash. 

3 hours ago, time2rock said:

With Wentz it isn't justy about his talent.  I would take Rush over Wentz because of the reports of the disruption to locker room chemistry in his past few stops.  

This as well. Over the last 3 seasons I have seen nothing to say he hasn't become a complete headcase in the locker room. There were already reports he wasn't well liked before his last season here, but I wonder how much damage that concussion really caused. He seemed to really lose it after that

[NOTW]

Former DC Gannon now HC in a sinking ship.

https://www.nfl.com/news/cardinals-release-wr-deandre-hopkins-after-three-seasons

Quote

 

The Cardinals on Friday announced the release of wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins after three seasons in Arizona.

NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reports that the Cardinals will take Hopkins' $22.6 million dead cap hit this season because it's a not post-June 1 designation.

Hopkins' release comes amid an offseason that saw rumors of the wideout being traded as a new regime took over in Arizona. While the WR maintained there was no trade request or contract dispute, Hopkins said all he wants is stability going forward.

 

 

[Kz!]

6 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Don't try to ruin his fun.

 

My guess as to why Wentz hasn't signed anywhere yet is because his camp probably sees him in the $7-10M / year (quality backup / bridge starter) pay range currently, but he'll probably end up on a 1-year deal for half that (probably $3-4M). If he lands in a place with an opportunity to play, it will be up to him to get his value back up for his next employer. In 2020, he had a bad season for us on a team full of players that had a bad season. In 2021, he had a pretty darn good season with a bad finish. Last year, he had another poor year. Three teams in 3 seasons. I kind of feel he's like Goff. He's capable of playing well again as a starter, but it would help for him to be in one place for more than 1 year. Right now he's an easy scape goat choice for coaches on the hot seat.

IDK, it was insane how much better Taylor Heinicke was than Wentz for the Redskins last year. Is he rosterable? I guess. You have to think there's a 3rd stringer on some team he'd be an upgrade over, but if he actually wants to be paid like a primary backup, I'd look elsewhere.

[EazyEaglez]

9 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I'm not a huge Carson Wentz fan but the idea he isn't a better QB as a spot starter than Cooper Rush is a huge stretch, the only reason Cooper Rush has a job is that he's not as awful as that Dinucci guy they played against us a couple of years ago.

Well he did go 4-1 as a starter last season, and for a brief moment he had Cowboys fans fooled into thinking he was a better option than Prescott. Speaking of DiNucci are we forgetting that game where Carson basically put up the same stat line as that bum? Really people need to stop trying to convince themselves Carson Wentz is still a good football player, because he’s not and hasn’t been for sometime now. 

[EazyEaglez]

9 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Don't try to ruin his fun.

 

My guess as to why Wentz hasn't signed anywhere yet is because his camp probably sees him in the $7-10M / year (quality backup / bridge starter) pay range currently, but he'll probably end up on a 1-year deal for half that (probably $3-4M). If he lands in a place with an opportunity to play, it will be up to him to get his value back up for his next employer. In 2020, he had a bad season for us on a team full of players that had a bad season. In 2021, he had a pretty darn good season with a bad finish. Last year, he had another poor year. Three teams in 3 seasons. I kind of feel he's like Goff. He's capable of playing well again as a starter, but it would help for him to be in one place for more than 1 year. Right now he's an easy scape goat choice for coaches on the hot seat.

I would argue that Wentz had better receivers in Washington than Goff had in Detroit, but he still just stunk. Also how can you claim the 2021 was a "pretty darn good season” when the Colts wanted no part of him? Seriously I’m not trying to trash Wentz, but the pedestal some of you guys think this guy is on is just makes no sense. Let it sink in for a moment. Neither the Colts or the Commanders actually had viable options at quarterback and they still rather a huge question mark than another season of Wentz. He’s not a good quarterback. 

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, Kz! said:

IDK, it was insane how much better Taylor Heinicke was than Wentz for the Redskins last year. Is he rosterable? I guess. You have to think there's a 3rd stringer on some team he'd be an upgrade over, but if he actually wants to be paid like a primary backup, I'd look elsewhere.

"Insane?" lol --- You do realize that Heinicke started virtually the entire 2021 season on that team and had familiarity with the players, right? Even after all that, this might have been his best play:

It's amazing what a lucky outcome on a terrible pass can do for a QB rating. 

[brkmsn]

5 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

 Seriously I’m not trying to trash Wentz

At least be honest about it. You have dedicated about as much time on this board trashing Wentz as the Confused Crew did trashing Hurts. Our opinions about players don't have to be the same, but ... seriously ... that part I quoted is comical. 

[EazyEaglez]

3 hours ago, NOTW said:

Former DC Gannon now HC in a sinking ship.

https://www.nfl.com/news/cardinals-release-wr-deandre-hopkins-after-three-seasons

 

Over before it even started. He might be a solid mind as many have stated, but the guy just seems like a terrible communicator. 

[EazyEaglez]

10 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

At least be honest about it. You have dedicated about as much time on this board trashing Wentz as the Confused Crew did trashing Hurts. Our opinions about players don't have to be the same, but ... seriously ... that part I quoted is comical. 

I’m not the only one around here who clearly realizes Carson Wentz is no longer a good player. Understanding that reality isn’t "bashing” the guy. Of course there will probably be some OC or HC out there who thinks they can fix this guy. They too will find out he’s no longer good. That’s the true comedy here. People who are stuck in 2017 and completely overlook the injury filled mess this guy has been on the field and in the locker room since that time. 

[brkmsn]

7 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’m not the only one around here who clearly realizes Carson Wentz is no longer a good player. Understanding that reality isn’t "bashing” the guy. Of course there will probably be some OC or HC out there who thinks they can fix this guy. They too will find out he’s no longer good. That’s the true comedy here. People who are stuck in 2017 and completely overlook the injury filled mess this guy has been on the field and in the locker room since that time. 

Continuing with the conjecture, I see. Still waiting for one courageous former teammate of his to validate your beliefs. If you were to claim he's failed to have success as a starter the last 3 seasons, I would agree with you. But instead, you want to trash him at all cost and continue to promote unsubstantiated rumors. There have been QBs that didn't work out initially with the team that brought them in, that bounced around for a while and eventually found a place where things worked out. We haven't seen the end of Wentz' career yet, no matter how much doom and gloom you predict. 

[EazyEaglez]

6 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Continuing with the conjecture, I see. Still waiting for one courageous former teammate of his to validate your beliefs. If you were to claim he's failed to have success as a starter the last 3 seasons, I would agree with you. But instead, you want to trash him at all cost and continue to promote unsubstantiated rumors. There have been QBs that didn't work out initially with the team that brought them in, that bounced around for a while and eventually found a place where things worked out. We haven't seen the end of Wentz' career yet, no matter how much doom and gloom you predict. 

The Colts basically confirmed they didn’t think he was a great leader. You can ignore all of the warning signs if you like, but the reality is most players aren’t going to publicly rip Carson Wentz. Who’s going to bat for him though? I ask you who right now is saying "I want to play with Carson Wentz?” If he’s not as bad as you think he is (especially off the field) where are the former coaches or players who can’t wait to have him on their team right now? 
 

I get it though. You love the charity cases. You’re a fan of the downtrodden guy. I remember you ripped Carson for the sake of JJAW, but now since everyone is against Carson you feel compelled to defend him now. That’s your thing. You do you. 

[brkmsn]

13 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

 Who’s going to bat for him though?  

Well ... let's see... Malcom Jenkins, Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Zach Ertz, Fletcher Cox, Shaquille Leonard ... to name a few.

"I have not read Joe’s article and don’t want to get into a habit of addressing unnamed opinions, but I know this: Carson through the first three years has been nothing but a great teammate trying to get better each and every day, trying to make others better each and every day, trying to make this team better each and every day. And when the dust has settled, his legacy will be one of an incredible competitor and teammate who laid it on the line each and every day for the guy next to him, and a man who did everything he could to help this team succeed. I’ll go to war any day of the week and twice on Sunday with guys like Carson Wentz.” --- Jason Kelce

[EazyEaglez]

51 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Well ... let's see... Malcom Jenkins, Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Zach Ertz, Fletcher Cox, Shaquille Leonard ... to name a few.

"I have not read Joe’s article and don’t want to get into a habit of addressing unnamed opinions, but I know this: Carson through the first three years has been nothing but a great teammate trying to get better each and every day, trying to make others better each and every day, trying to make this team better each and every day. And when the dust has settled, his legacy will be one of an incredible competitor and teammate who laid it on the line each and every day for the guy next to him, and a man who did everything he could to help this team succeed. I’ll go to war any day of the week and twice on Sunday with guys like Carson Wentz.” --- Jason Kelce

Yet Kelce had opportunities to leave Philly twice to pursue that opportunity to play with Carson. Did he? 😂🤣😂

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Continuing with the conjecture, I see. Still waiting for one courageous former teammate of his to validate your beliefs. If you were to claim he's failed to have success as a starter the last 3 seasons, I would agree with you. But instead, you want to trash him at all cost and continue to promote unsubstantiated rumors. There have been QBs that didn't work out initially with the team that brought them in, that bounced around for a while and eventually found a place where things worked out. We haven't seen the end of Wentz' career yet, no matter how much doom and gloom you predict. 

I don’t need to predict anything. Reality is staring you right in the face. You choose to ignore that. Do you really believe it’s natural for a guy to fall off a cliff as fast as Carson has will suddenly revert to the ONE NOT EVEN A FULL SEASON elite player when this is his exact mindset? 

"As far as overall changing my style, that’s not going to happen,” Wentz said during media availability on Tuesday.”

 

[Bwestbrook36]

8 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Yet Kelce had opportunities to leave Philly twice to pursue that opportunity to play with Carson. Did he? 😂🤣😂

As they say actions speak louder than words... Teams are eating millions of dollars and early draft picks to get him out of town as soon as possible

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

As they say actions speak louder than words... Teams are eating millions of dollars and early draft picks to get him out of town as soon as possible

Yes! Case closed.

[brkmsn]

45 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Yes! Case closed.

LOL. You asked who went to bat for him and I gave you a list of big names that went to bat for him. You want to believe conjecture and hearsay. The facts are Wentz was never "elite." He had a good season (with his style) in 2017. He had a statistically better season in 2018 (slightly away from his style) and followed that with a good 2019 season. 2020 was his worst season. In 2021, he had a good season statistically, although played poorly in his last 2 games. Last year, he had an unimpressive season. Wentz never looked "pretty" as a passer. Even in 2017 he was sailing the occasional pass over open targets.

None of that means he can't play QB in the NFL or even get lucky and have a better season for some team than he had in 2017. It's all about opportunity and setting. I think Andy Reid could get Wentz playing his best football, but Reid has Mahomes and doesn't need a future starter. I think if Gruden was still coaching, he would love to work with Wentz. Supposedly, Reich "stuck his neck out" for Wentz. That was a guy that coached him before and knew what he was getting. 

 

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Yet Kelce had opportunities to leave Philly twice to pursue that opportunity to play with Carson. Did he? 😂🤣😂

So ... because Kelce kept playing for the team that drafted him, kept playing with teammates he also loves and speaks highly of, kept playing for the city he is establishing his family in, I guess he lied about Wentz ... 

Like ... are you really going to sell your house, quit your job, move your immediate family, leaving all your other relatives and loved ones behind, just to move to some distant location to follow your best friend there? Makes sense ... to you ...

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

LOL. You asked who went to bat for him and I gave you a list of big names that went to bat for him. You want to believe conjecture and hearsay. The facts are Wentz was never "elite." He had a good season (with his style) in 2017. He had a statistically better season in 2018 (slightly away from his style) and followed that with a good 2019 season. 2020 was his worst season. In 2021, he had a good season statistically, although played poorly in his last 2 games. Last year, he had an unimpressive season. Wentz never looked "pretty" as a passer. Even in 2017 he was sailing the occasional pass over open targets.

None of that means he can't play QB in the NFL or even get lucky and have a better season for some team than he had in 2017. It's all about opportunity and setting. I think Andy Reid could get Wentz playing his best football, but Reid has Mahomes and doesn't need a future starter. I think if Gruden was still coaching, he would love to work with Wentz. Supposedly, Reich "stuck his neck out" for Wentz. That was a guy that coached him before and knew what he was getting. 

 

So ... because Kelce kept playing for the team that drafted him, kept playing with teammates he also loves and speaks highly of, kept playing for the city he is establishing his family in, I guess he lied about Wentz ... 

Like ... are you really going to sell your house, quit your job, move your immediate family, leaving all your other relatives and loved ones behind, just to move to some distant location to follow your best friend there? Makes sense ... to you ...

Wentz was never elite? Sometimes statistical numbers do not always tell the full story of how good or bad a quarterback is and that’s why people look at the 2018 numbers and think Carson played better when in reality he didn’t. You could look at his numbers statistically in both Washington and Indy and think Carson was a good quarterback, but in reality he wasn’t. What Carson was doing on 3rd down and in the red zone during 2017 was truly unprecedented. He was on a completely different level than his peers in those categories. He also didn’t turn the ball over and as far as missing some passes all quarterback ps have those moments. In short Carson was money in 2017. I’m supposedly one of his biggest so called haters, but there was no doubt Carson played at an elite level for much of 2017. Now getting to Kelce comment it’s pretty much meaningless. Several players have moved their families to new locations. The NFL is a business and that happens all the time. Did not Wentz himself demand a trade out of Philly and leave? Did not Zach Ertz leave the team that drafted him? Such a cop out argument dude. Obviously Kelce didn’t think highly enough of the quarterback he used to play with to keep playing with him. Meanwhile Brown extended his contract to come play with Jalen. Several veterans took less money to stay here and play with Jalen. No one is looking to play with Wentz. Oh and Gruden!?! Do you realize how many quarterbacks that dude went through his career as a head coach? The friggin guy could never settle on one for too long. He’d be done with Wentz faster than Frank Reich was. 😂 Look I’m not telling you that Wentz will never be in this league again. Frankly there are some trash quarterbacks out there. I am stating that he’s not far from the bad ones right now himself and no coach is going to change that. You mentioned Andy Reid well he had Mahomes when he brought in Nick Foles to reform him did he not? Why couldn’t he bring in Wentz to try and reform him too? We will see if he does, but if he doesn’t then Andy thinks he’s a lost cause. This idea that Wentz is a starter you might as well put that out of you head for now. No one will be making Wentz a starter this upcoming season unless they lost their starting quarterback to injury. Of course with Carson’s history he would be following that quarterback to the injured list himself soon after. 
 

it’s funny you’re talking about players having his back we’ll do you really think Carson liked his teammates building a shine to the backup quarterback in the locker room? Where were all of these so called players who had his back to tell Long not to build it because it could have a detrimental effect on Carson? You don’t think they realized that that could be an issue? Yeah there’s no wonder Carson had so many issues here. How can you not when all these so called people who had his back because they said a few words to the media completely did nothing about the shine to the other guy in locker room. 🤔😂

[brkmsn]

3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

 Now getting to Kelce comment it’s pretty much meaningless. Several players have moved their families to new locations. The NFL is a business and that happens all the time. Did not Wentz himself demand a trade out of Philly and leave? Did not Zach Ertz leave the team that drafted him? Such a cop out argument dude. Obviously Kelce didn’t think highly enough of the quarterback he used to play with to keep playing with him.

Holy crap! I can't believe you are still wasting time in that rabbit hole. 

 

Did Kelce make the statement or not? Did he lie? That whole "bad teammate" narrative is just too important for you to give up, so much so that you are suggesting Kelce should have ignored everything else and followed Wentz if he meant it. Absolutely idiotic. 

[EazyEaglez]

6 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Holy crap! I can't believe you are still wasting time in that rabbit hole. 

 

Did Kelce make the statement or not? Did he lie? That whole "bad teammate" narrative is just too important for you to give up, so much so that you are suggesting Kelce should have ignored everything else and followed Wentz if he meant it. Absolutely idiotic. 

We don’t need to go back in forth on this. You love defending bad football players. It’s common knowledge. That’s enough to prove what Wentz really is just like JJAW, Reagor, and Quez. If your boy is the great player/teammate you claim he is then why have teams given up major cap hits, and draft capital to get rid of him in only three years? Who is the other great player/teammate do you know of that would have played for four different teams in four years with three of those years on the same contract? Such a ridiculous argument to try and make. Case closed. 

[EazyEaglez]

It’s actually surprising how many former coaches or players from the Eagles are on the HC list. 

[brkmsn]

6 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

We don’t need to go back in forth on this. You love defending bad football players. It’s common knowledge. That’s enough to prove what Wentz really is just like JJAW, Reagor, and Quez. 

I defend tons of players from what I believe to be unsubstantiated claims. Are you going to ignore that I spent the 2nd half of the 2021 season through last season defending Hurts too? I defended Brandon Graham and Jason Kelce for years (on the old board). Likewise I defended McNabb, Staley, Westbrook, etc... before them.

The difference between you and me is that I allow for the possibility of a positive outcome to happen after a negative one. I don't see a trend and believe that it can only continue in that direction. I have defended players from specific criticisms and the players haven't always panned out. Guys like Pinkston, JJAW, Fulgham, Reagor, etc... never amounted to anything as Eagles. It's disappointing for sure. What I find comical from you specifically is that you somehow turn my arguments against certain specific claims into some kind of unbridled praise for that player. I never once claimed JJAW (since he's your favorite "go to" ) was even a good WR. I only argued against statements that claimed he "never gets separation" or "can't get open." I didn't "trash Wentz" by saying, "Wentz doesn't seem to have confidence/trust in JJAW and looks for other targets." Nor do I only say positive things about players. For 3 straight seasons Wentz increased his percentage of passes to TEs and decreased the targets to WRs. Those statistics are facts. My opinion was this was hurting the offense. For example, during the Fulgham Five Game Stretch, Wentz had no choice but to trust a player he wasn't familiar with and the team had a "winning" record during that stretch. I don't sit here and say, "That interception was a beautiful pass, though." All players have good plays and bad plays. It's each fan's choice how much they dwell on the positive or the negative. At least I'm consistent. Some of you turn on players so fast that you mistake a fair/balanced argument as unhinged praise. 

[NOTW]

7 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s actually surprising how many former coaches or players from the Eagles are on the HC list. 

Gannon 

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I defend tons of players from what I believe to be unsubstantiated claims. Are you going to ignore that I spent the 2nd half of the 2021 season through last season defending Hurts too? I defended Brandon Graham and Jason Kelce for years (on the old board). Likewise I defended McNabb, Staley, Westbrook, etc... before them.

The difference between you and me is that I allow for the possibility of a positive outcome to happen after a negative one. I don't see a trend and believe that it can only continue in that direction. I have defended players from specific criticisms and the players haven't always panned out. Guys like Pinkston, JJAW, Fulgham, Reagor, etc... never amounted to anything as Eagles. It's disappointing for sure. What I find comical from you specifically is that you somehow turn my arguments against certain specific claims into some kind of unbridled praise for that player. I never once claimed JJAW (since he's your favorite "go to" ) was even a good WR. I only argued against statements that claimed he "never gets separation" or "can't get open." I didn't "trash Wentz" by saying, "Wentz doesn't seem to have confidence/trust in JJAW and looks for other targets." Nor do I only say positive things about players. For 3 straight seasons Wentz increased his percentage of passes to TEs and decreased the targets to WRs. Those statistics are facts. My opinion was this was hurting the offense. For example, during the Fulgham Five Game Stretch, Wentz had no choice but to trust a player he wasn't familiar with and the team had a "winning" record during that stretch. I don't sit here and say, "That interception was a beautiful pass, though." All players have good plays and bad plays. It's each fan's choice how much they dwell on the positive or the negative. At least I'm consistent. Some of you turn on players so fast that you mistake a fair/balanced argument as unhinged praise. 

JJAW stinks and that doesn’t need to be over analyzed. Reagor stinks and you’re simply wasting time to try and justify why either of these players do. You are consistent though bud. As soon as a player or coach cross into mediocrity or worse, you will be there to make sure they’re not viewed as bad as the reality. That’s your thing and it’s fine for you. If you want to watch a bunch of videos watching JJAW run around and do nothing but run around to justify your claim that he’s better than anyone thinks more power to you. Case closed though Reagor’s option declined. Case closed cause Wentz MIGHT be on his 4th team in four years if he’s lucky. Case closed on JJAW who found a way to be a TC body this summer after being a 2nd round pick. They stink end of story.