Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[CaliEagle]

Just now, EagleJoe8 said:

What’s going on in the next 48 hours?

His food truck "Thy Kingdom Crumb" is heading for Indy within 48 hours.  

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

What’s going on in the next 48 hours?

Been trying to get a hold of Doc and Marty so I can go and find out.  They are not returning my calls, so we will have to wait until it happens.

[greend]

11 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

What’s going on in the next 48 hours?

Mike small ballz gonna see his shadow

[Mike030270]

43 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

You said King was incorrect because most people thought otherwise at the time. Not really the strongest argument.

Everytime Wentz walked off the field after a bad play, what did he do? He threw up his hands or shook his head, looking red-faced with his lips pursed, then walked back to the end of the bench and sat all by his lonesome, furiously flipping through a tablet. I rarely saw engagement between him and the team when they were in a tough situation. In fact, it was usually his teammates who had to find HIM for a pat on the back or a high-five after an INT or stalled drive.

Remember when the stuff came out that he was bent out of shape because the QB coach "pushed him too hard" or something to that effect? I believe it was described as "Wentz  likes to be coached a certain way." So, the organization replaced the QB coach with someone inexperienced and that Wentz could be buddies with.

Such BS LOL

[EaglesRocker97]

Just now, Mike030270 said:

Such BS LOL

 

It's what I saw with my own eyes, repeatedly.

[EaglesRocker97]

Quote

• here was a disconnect even before Wentz was benched, though. Pederson would call a play only for his quarterback to occasionally kill it for no other reason than his personal distaste, sources said. It became "a pissing match” between the two, one of the sources said.

My take: This, to me, was the most troubling part of the entire report. Of course, this is just opinion from those sources. If true, though, it’s damning. Because it’s one thing to disagree with a coach and to push back against scheme or play calls, but it’s another to essentially go rogue. That’s a level of insubordination that is tough to come back from. You simply can’t have a quarterback making calls out of spite. The only person who really knows if this is the case is Wentz himself, but you’d really hope it isn’t. I don’t know how, if the organization believes this to be true, he can be their quarterback in 2021.

 

• Wentz’s Type-A personality could be credited just as much for his past success. Many top quarterbacks share the same trait. But the 28-year-old had increasingly rebuffed advice, defied criticism, and clashed with former coach Doug Pederson last season, Eagles sources said.

"Every great quarterback wants to be coached and they want to be coached hard and by the best, and it doesn’t seem like [Wentz] wants that,” one source said. "It’s kind of like whoever’s coaching him is working for him. But it can’t be that way.”

My take: Here’s that Type-A personality again. Jeff’s right about it being a big part of Wentz’s success, but it was also a huge part of why they initially identified him as their franchise quarterback during the pre-draft process in 2016. They liked his confidence, his ability to take command of a situation and a room. But Wentz’s inability to take coaching has been well-documented and there have been legitimate fears about whether or not Press Taylor was the right man for the job, especially with this particular quarterback.

Wentz is a player who has had success at every level and it takes a level of humility to be willing to get better. It’s fair to question if he has that. This idea kind of goes with the next part.

• Wentz does want to win. He is tireless. He is dedicated. No one publicly has ever suggested otherwise, and the same seemingly holds privately. But his resistance to hard instruction made him lose faith from coaches and an unwillingness to accept blame for his mistakes hurt him in the locker room.

"He doesn’t understand that he lost games for us,” a veteran player said. "He will never admit that and that’s a problem because he can’t get it corrected.”

My take: The reason the lack of accountability and the refusal to take coaching go together is simple: If you don’t think you’re the problem, why would you try to change? The lack of accountability, at least publicly, is something that I remember being concerned about dating back to Wentz’s rookie season. That team was improving but it wasn’t very good. I remember a lot of "we” talk from Wentz that year. It was always "we” as an offense weren’t good enough. Eventually, throughout the years, he’s been more willing to say he wasn’t good enough individually. And he had no choice but to do that in 2020 as he was turning the ball over an NFL-leading pace. But you have always been able to see the hesitance from Wentz to accept blame. Sometimes a quarterback has to stand at a microphone (or in front of his teammates) and say, "That’s on me. I wasn’t good enough. I’m the reason we lost. I have to get better.” We haven’t seen that enough from 11.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/thoughts-report-detailing-carson-wentzs-uncoachable-unaccountable-behavior

Cue the typical attack the source fallacy, "BuT iT's McLaNe!" Whatever, this stuff just comports well with what I saw out of him the last several years.

[time2rock]

He's gone ... some of you need to move on.  This thread needs to be closed already.

[EaglesRocker97]

I see no need to close it when someone will inevitably post a Wentz topic next season when everyone's watching what happens in Indy. For better or worse, Wentz and Hurts will be forever judged against one another, so as long as Hurts is the starting QB of the Philadelphia Eagles, you might as well just keep it all the Wentz musings in this topic.Regardless, the Wentz debacle is arguably the biggest controversy in Philly sports in a long time, probably since the T.O. saga. Similar to how Owens remained player of interest and a highly polarizing figure among the fans, Wentz will be a newsworthy player and the subject of heated debate for many years longer than it takes the team to recover and Wentz to play out his contract. 15 years from now, it'll still be a topic that we periodically revisit and dissect, assigning guilt and generally just wondering what went wrong. It's understandable that people want to forget about it, though.

It really one of most spectacular implosions of an organization and a player's career in the history of professional sports.  Bad contracts don't normally also come with the kind of complete organizational breakdown that we witnessed this offseason. The only situation that comes to mind as possibly comparable was the RG III fiasco, but even that didn't have near the financial ramifications, nor was Washington a franchise with recent success or even one considered to be one of the more respectable and well-managed teams in the league. The combination of separate but related disasters really makes this a unique event that will make recovery extremely challenging. I mean, they f****d this situation up so badly it's almost impressive. The situation is FUBAR. So much for the Gold Standard...

[Talonblood]

39 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

I see no need to close it when someone will inevitably post a Wentz topic next season when everyone's watching what happens in Indy. For better or worse, Wentz and Hurts will be forever judged against one another, so as long as Hurts is the starting QB of the Philadelphia Eagles, you might as well just keep it all the Wentz musings in this topic.Regardless, the Wentz debacle is arguably the biggest controversy in Philly sports in a long time, probably since the T.O. saga. Similar to how Owens remained player of interest and a highly polarizing figure among the fans, Wentz will be a newsworthy player and the subject of heated debate for many years longer than it takes the team to recover and Wentz to play out his contract. 15 years from now, it'll still be a topic that we periodically revisit and dissect, assigning guilt and generally just wondering what went wrong. It's understandable that people want to forget about it, though.

It really one of most spectacular implosions of an organization and a player's career in the history of professional sports.  Bad contracts don't normally also come with the kind of complete organizational breakdown that we witnessed this offseason. The only situation that comes to mind as possibly comparable was the RG III fiasco, but even that didn't have near the financial ramifications, nor was Washington a franchise with recent success or even one considered to be one of the more respectable and well-managed teams in the league. The combination of separate but related disasters really makes this a unique event that will make recovery extremely challenging. I mean, they f****d this situation up so badly it's almost impressive. The situation is FUBAR. So much for the Gold Standard...

The "New Norm!!" God help us if THIS is their idea of the new norm. An organization that is at war with each other behind closed doors is not the norm you want to be involved with. It's an embarrassment to the city and perception of Philadelphia. They need to take an honest look at themselves, humble themselves and make things right. Last time they tried that, then won a Super Bowl.

[Talonblood]

22 hours ago, greend said:

It was a mind bogglingly stupid pick in round one and King saying he's the only one in the league that loved it proves that point. That said once again people are blindly going by hearsay. 

Find me a quote where Carson said he didn't want to have competition.

Words mean nothing- you don't need a quote. Look at his actions- what he actually did, how he actually reacted. THAT tells you the story, not words. A person can tell you they love you, but you better watch what they actually DO- THAT will tell you if they love you or not. I backed Carson during personal attacks against him for a long time. I then took time to sit back and put all the pieces together and judge the situation by watching what Carson did. You know what Carson did? He QUIT when they drafted a rookie QB as insurance against him- a QB who could never finish a season healthy. He double quit when he got benched. Even #5 fought back when he got benched. Carson Wentz is a quitter when times get tough. His ACTIONS proved it- no need for words. Winners NEVER do that. Winners fight unto the death, not run away. Carson Wentz is simply not a winner. He is a runner. The Maze Runner.

[EaglesfanfromND]

Apparently the coaching staff, offensive line, wr's and defense all quit when they drafted Hurts too? I mean the whole team sucked but let's blame it all on Wentz. King is fricking idiot that wants people to think he knows everything and he's one of worst "insiders" in the game. They supposedly drafted Hurts to have a backup that could win games when Wentz got hurt right? Well he went 1-3 ffs so how'd that turn out? He had a chance to get this dumpster fire to the playoffs in this putrid division and he couldn't do it! Yeah great Fing pick when the team had more pressing needs. Howie drafted Hurts because he thinks he's the second coming of Wilson and he wanted to have a "QB factory"! The factory now has a 1 year qb and a has been that's now a journeymen. They fired the coaches, traded the QB and ate a ton of dead cap and have assembled one of the most mediocre teams we've seen in a long time. It's time to stop blaming it all on Wentz and focus on the real issue with this organization! 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 hours ago, EaglesfanfromND said:

Apparently the coaching staff, offensive line, wr's and defense all quit when they drafted Hurts too? I mean the whole team sucked but let's blame it all on Wentz.

But then why did those players then seemingly up their game when Hurts came in? If they quit when Hurts was drafted then surely that would have continued when they benched Wentz? And in fact it was reported that Hurts was a very popular figure in the locker room. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

9 hours ago, EaglesfanfromND said:

Apparently the coaching staff, offensive line, wr's and defense all quit when they drafted Hurts too? I mean the whole team sucked but let's blame it all on Wentz. King is fricking idiot that wants people to think he knows everything and he's one of worst "insiders" in the game. They supposedly drafted Hurts to have a backup that could win games when Wentz got hurt right? Well he went 1-3 ffs so how'd that turn out? He had a chance to get this dumpster fire to the playoffs in this putrid division and he couldn't do it! Yeah great Fing pick when the team had more pressing needs. Howie drafted Hurts because he thinks he's the second coming of Wilson and he wanted to have a "QB factory"! The factory now has a 1 year qb and a has been that's now a journeymen. They fired the coaches, traded the QB and ate a ton of dead cap and have assembled one of the most mediocre teams we've seen in a long time. It's time to stop blaming it all on Wentz and focus on the real issue with this organization! 

The O Line had some shaky games, but they did about as well as you could expect for a unit putting out 14 different line ups in 16 games and they were nowhere near as bad as Wentz made them look at times, the defense worked minor miracles keeping the team in contention until the end in games the offense was absolutely crapping the bed in, especially considering the street bums we were running out at corner by the end.

[greend]

18 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The O Line had some shaky games, but they did about as well as you could expect for a unit putting out 14 different line ups in 16 games and they were nowhere near as bad as Wentz made them look at times, the defense worked minor miracles keeping the team in contention until the end in games the offense was absolutely crapping the bed in, especially considering the street bums we were running out at corner by the end.

O line was bad, receivers were bad. Ertz couldn't get open and Wentz sucked. The only thing that Hurts did better was run and he can't keep that up. Oh and we still lost.

[greend]

On 4/17/2021 at 11:07 AM, Talonblood said:

Words mean nothing- you don't need a quote. Look at his actions- what he actually did, how he actually reacted. THAT tells you the story, not words. A person can tell you they love you, but you better watch what they actually DO- THAT will tell you if they love you or not. I backed Carson during personal attacks against him for a long time. I then took time to sit back and put all the pieces together and judge the situation by watching what Carson did. You know what Carson did? He QUIT when they drafted a rookie QB as insurance against him- a QB who could never finish a season healthy. He double quit when he got benched. Even #5 fought back when he got benched. Carson Wentz is a quitter when times get tough. His ACTIONS proved it- no need for words. Winners NEVER do that. Winners fight unto the death, not run away. Carson Wentz is simply not a winner. He is a runner. The Maze Runner.

Nah, he never quit. Do you think a guy that holds the ball too long waiting for one of our offensive "weapons" to get open quits?

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, greend said:

Nah, he never quit. Do you think a guy that holds the ball too long waiting for one of our offensive "weapons" to get open quits?

I don't necessarily think that comes down to quitting though? That was many reasons including going through his progressions slower and not letting the ball go when he could and instead holding on. I don't think he was a quitter in terms of what he did on the field but overall he had the wrong approach to this situation from what we've seen etc.

[Swoop]

7 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But then why did those players then seemingly up their game when Hurts came in? If they quit when Hurts was drafted then surely that would have continued when they benched Wentz? And in fact it was reported that Hurts was a very popular figure in the locker room. 

Im not sure they really stepped their game up though. Maybe initially. They managed to beat the Saints with Hill (who's a worse passer than Hurts), lost to the Cardinals who were up and down all year, got killed by Dallas and we all know how poor they looked against Washington even before Suds.

This team is bad in seemingly every single way including both QBs. At least Hurts has the excuse of being a rookie and still having a chance to improve.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, Swoop said:

Im not sure they really stepped their game up though. Maybe initially. They managed to beat the Saints with Hill (who's a worse passer than Hurts), lost to the Cardinals who were up and down all year, got killed by Dallas and we all know how poor they looked against Washington even before Suds.

This team is bad in seemingly every single way including both QBs. At least Hurts has the excuse of being a rookie and still having a chance to improve.

I think against the Saints and Cardinals they did absolutely raise their game. They were so bad before that for the most part that they would have lost both of those games probably rather handily. Of course this is all ifs, buts and maybes.

[Heavywchamp]

7 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But then why did those players then seemingly up their game when Hurts came in? If they quit when Hurts was drafted then surely that would have continued when they benched Wentz? And in fact it was reported that Hurts was a very popular figure in the locker room. 

They did?

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 minutes ago, Heavywchamp said:

They did?

There seemed to be an improvement on the field when Hurts came in yes. 

[Heavywchamp]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

There seemed to be an improvement on the field when Hurts came in yes. 

I couldn't tell the difference. Maybe for the Saints game but after that it was back to crap again. The only thing exciting was watching Hurts scramble. The real quitter was Pederson. He knew he was done after the season and it showed. I honestly believe the reports that Lurie and the FO clowned and ridiculed him during meetings after his poor in game coaching decisions. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 minutes ago, Heavywchamp said:

I couldn't tell the difference. Maybe for the Saints game but after that it was back to crap again. The only thing exciting was watching Hurts scramble. The real quitter was Pederson. He knew he was done after the season and it showed. I honestly believe the reports that Lurie and the FO clowned and ridiculed him during meetings after his poor in game coaching decisions. 

They were very good in the Cardinals game against a good team. They got themselves in a hole early but they fought back and they had chances to win that game.

[Heavywchamp]

3 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

They were very good in the Cardinals game against a good team. They got themselves in a hole early but they fought back and they had chances to win that game.

That's the way it's been all season. Again, I really couldn't see a huge difference in team play other than Hurts using his legs occasionally to burn the defense. Pederson was the biggest problem. Funny thing about reading that article above was about Wentz and his kill kills but Hurts seemed to kill about every other play also. 

[EaglesfanfromND]

8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But then why did those players then seemingly up their game when Hurts came in? If they quit when Hurts was drafted then surely that would have continued when they benched Wentz? And in fact it was reported that Hurts was a very popular figure in the locker room. 

No they didn't, Hurts ability to run made it appear that way but even that didn't result in more wins. IDGAS how popular somebody is do your damn job and leave the popularity contests to fans FFS. 

[EaglesfanfromND]

4 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The O Line had some shaky games, but they did about as well as you could expect for a unit putting out 14 different line ups in 16 games and they were nowhere near as bad as Wentz made them look at times, the defense worked minor miracles keeping the team in contention until the end in games the offense was absolutely crapping the bed in, especially considering the street bums we were running out at corner by the end.

They were garbage many times and Wentz kept plays alive at times too. Same with the defense they always seemed to give up an easy score after every offensive score too. Again the whole fricking team sucked but the QB always gets the most blame.