Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[315Eagles]

5 minutes ago, GeorgeM37 said:

Rocket for an arm, yes but struggled with accuracy and threw many a wobbly ball. Tell you what. Give me some good logical comparisons of the two and we go from there. But what have you seen from Wentz that makes him a better QB? Mechanics? Situational awareness? What is it that yall have seen from both of them to say Wentz is better?

What do you want to compare?

Team success?  Individual stats? Mechanics?

Team success goes to McNabb.  He got to how many NFCCG's before he choked?  Same with the SB.  Had a great defense and good RBs and TE.  I agree his WRs weren't good until he had TO.  

Stats?  Wentz has a better comp %, more TDs, less Int's, better rating than McNabb thru this point in their careers.

Look I dont want to argue about who is better.  It doesn't help at this point.  I feel Wentz is better and more talented although he is inconsistent and doesn't always show it.  You feel McNabb was better.  It's your opinion and I respect it.  Both have flaws and both are good QBs.  Neither is elite.

[EagleVA]

2 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

His on-field awareness at times is terrible, and that's not something you really can teach.

Bingo!!

From my perspective I see two issues with Wentz, pocket awareness and accuracy, and like you said, these are not things you can teach, you either have them or you don't, they're instinctive.

Don't get me wrong, you can point out to him that he's weak in those areas and with practice he can get better, but for the most part, it is what it is.

I remember reading a post from a guy that attended NDSU and he spoke on Wentz's sometimesy accuracy, he said he gets into cold stretches where he just makes bad throws, he closed his reply with "wait, you'll see", I guess we're seeing.

There's a possibility that his issues are just a matter of concentration, he has to focus out there and not let his mind wander when he's on the field.  A perfect example was how he handled the rush yesterday, with our makeshift OL he should have expected heavy pressure and knew all checkdowns on every play or been aware that he may need to step up in the pocket, I didn't see him step up in the pocket at all yesterday.

I't beginning to look like a 50/50 thing as to a bad/good performance from him.......time will tell.

[xBMTx]

10 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

What do you want to compare?

Team success?  Individual stats? Mechanics?

Team success goes to McNabb.  He got to how many NFCCG's before he choked?  Same with the SB.  Had a great defense and good RBs and TE.  I agree his WRs weren't good until he had TO.  

Stats?  Wentz has a better comp %, more TDs, less Int's, better rating than McNabb thru this point in their careers.

Look I dont want to argue about who is better.  It doesn't help at this point.  I feel Wentz is better and more talented although he is inconsistent and doesn't always show it.  You feel McNabb was better.  It's your opinion and I respect it.  Both have flaws and both are good QBs.  Neither is elite.

McNabb is better than Wentz. Wentz would never survive the way defenses were allowed to play during McNabb's era. The rules were changed because of how our wide receivers were man handled during the Panthers NFCCG.

[DawkinsOwnage03]

Tank for Lawrence smartest move 

[EazyEaglez]

34 minutes ago, GeorgeM37 said:

And unfortunately, we may see that this season. If he stays playing like that he will definitely get hurt. Of course, I dont want that to happen but I have seen it happen to others that consistently played recklessly.....

Reminds me of Vick. Such a great talent, but he couldn’t stay healthy. 

[Miami]

The tape is out there now so let's if Doug & Co. can adjust this week to give Wentz some help.  Max protect, run more, use 12 personnel more, roll the pocket, etc.  The goal is for Wentz to move around and get the ball out quickly so he doesn't keep making the same mistakes.  No one fears our running game either so you may need Wentz to run some too.  Hurts would help there as well.  And both our tight ends look unstoppable so that should free up someone else, including the deep ball which looked dangerous if Wentz has enough time.

[EazyEaglez]

48 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

McNabb had a rocket for an arm too.  They both have flaws but can you honestly watch both play and tell me McNabb is a better QB?  

If you're referring to playoff record and appearing in a SB then yes McNabb has had more success.  

I can tell you that if Wentz had Darnel Autry as his starting back, Torrance Small and Charles Johnson’s as his starting receivers, and Chad Lewis as his TE no only is he not winning much of anything, but he’s also gonna look as bad if not worse than McNabb did as a passer. 

[NOTW]

I agree on some points about Wentz:  too much gunslinger, should not take sacks or force throws into INTs and play smarter.  He also is inconsistent in his accuracy and also needs to protect his body better.

However he also makes some great throws, is smart and has made some great plays and won games.  I agree that as a 5th year player he has to mature and grow and if he hasn't in certain areas then perhaps that is how he will always be.  But consider:

• 3 starting O lineman, starting RB out for the game and #2 RB hurt during game.  A couple years ago the Saints had 2 OL starters out and the announcers were defending Drew Brees saying that's tough for any QB.
• New coaching staff and structure, new voices, new plays
• New rookie WRs and rookie/young O lineman stepping in for guys who were veteran consistently good players
• No preseason and altered offseason due to the pandemic

Lots of teams still shake off the rust in week 1.  Again I agree on many points about Wentz but let's see when he's got an actual running game and starters back on the O line and grows more comfortable in timing with his new receivers.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

I agree on some points about Wentz:  too much gunslinger, should not take sacks or force throws into INTs and play smarter.  He also is inconsistent in his accuracy and also needs to protect his body better.

However he also makes some great throws, is smart and has made some great plays and won games.  I agree that as a 5th year player he has to mature and grow and if he hasn't in certain areas then perhaps that is how he will always be.  But consider:

• 3 starting O lineman, starting RB out for the game and #2 RB hurt during game.  A couple years ago the Saints had 2 OL starters out and the announcers were defending Drew Brees saying that's tough for any QB.
• New coaching staff and structure, new voices, new plays
• New rookie WRs and rookie/young O lineman stepping in for guys who were veteran consistently good players
• No preseason and altered offseason due to the pandemic

Lots of teams still shake off the rust in week 1.  Again I agree on many points about Wentz but let's see when he's got an actual running game and starters back on the O line and grows more comfortable in timing with his new receivers.  

And what happened to the creative new play calling ??  Once the Redskins scored to make it 17-7, all the plays became the same predictable garbage.

[GeorgeM37]

21 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Reminds me of Vick. Such a great talent, but he couldn’t stay healthy. 

What drove me absolutely mad about Vick was the fact that he would dive instead of slide....I hated to see him do that and am surprised he didnt sustain more damage from playing reckless like that....

[Talonblood]

51 minutes ago, Madriver said:

Couldn't agree more. 

And for a #2 overall, he SHOULD be a top 5 QB by year 5.

I also think if they do as you suggest, Doug is on thin ice as well. I think he gets one more QB to tinker with and if he doesn't produce, we'll be looking for a new coach. Think about it: a former NFL QB who cannot get his #2 overall to do simple things like throw the ball away? WTF good is he as a coach?

Maybe the coach TRIES to teach him, but the student-Wentz, is actually UNTEACHABLE. Wentz already knows it all. THAT is his worse problem. It's apparent to me he is simply unteachable. If that is the case, then the root of the issue is a lack of humility, unlike someone like Nick Foles, has in spades. Wentz seems to think that just by him walking on the field, everyone will realize how great he is. Thing is- you have to work at being great in the NFL. This isn't college hero worship here. He REFUSES to throw the ball away or check down. Someone called him on that shi* last year, too. Nobody listened, including me. Now I am starting to see it. For me- he either grows (and FAST) or he goes. Grow or go. 

[MagicMoment]

1 hour ago, 315Eagles said:

You honestly think if McNabb was back there yesterday that things would be different?  

I love McNabb but he had his fair share of stinkers too.  

I’m uncertain how things would have played out yesterday if Mcnabb was out there but I do know he did more with less than Carson has done in a passing league. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Madriver said:

Couldn't agree more. 

And for a #2 overall, he SHOULD be a top 5 QB by year 5.

I also think if they do as you suggest, Doug is on thin ice as well. I think he gets one more QB to tinker with and if he doesn't produce, we'll be looking for a new coach. Think about it: a former NFL QB who cannot get his #2 overall to do simple things like throw the ball away? WTF good is he as a coach?

I think Doug should be questioned as it is. I'm not saying fire him but I think it's becoming quite clear that his success had a lot to do with the coaches he had in 2017.

[Hawkeye]

13 hours ago, Jeep_man said:

There is got to be a way to package Wentz & Ertz  together for a trade in return for some serious capital next offseason....

Yes because what the Eagles need next is $60 million in dead money and a $25 million dollar cap charge.  Are these real suggestions?

[EricAllenPick6]

OK, guys, breathe in and out - I get the anger, but I put a lot of this on the hands of the coaching staff.  

Our line was terrible.  We had father time (JP) getting smoked by Kerrigan on one side of the line and a big pile of garbage up against Chase Young on the other side.   We don't have the pass protection to run any exotic pass routes or anything complicated. We needed WR screens, TE screens, RB screens, quick outs, slants, etc.  Classic WCO type of stuff.  Quick release.  Ball out within 2 seconds.  

Doug did none of that.  Seemed like every 3rd down was a 5 wide set with nobody in the backfield.  Somebody would get past our turnstile line, then I get to hear Darryl Johnston say "AND THEY GOT HIM AGAIN!"  This actually started pretty early in the game, maybe on the 2nd drive.  Doug made no adjustments.  He still went with his gameplan.

Some of this is on Carson.  Seems like bad mechanics set in, he was being hit a lot and was pressing.  He needed to throw the ball away on a couple of occasions and did not do that.  But you lay way too much of the blame at his feet here.  He was set up for failure.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 minutes ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Some of this is on Carson.  Seems like bad mechanics set in, he was being hit a lot and was pressing.  He needed to throw the ball away on a couple of occasions and did not do that.  But you lay way too much of the blame at his feet here.  He was set up for failure.  

And this is spot on. It isn't all Carson’s fault but he does have to take some blame and he was at fault for some issues. 

[time2rock]

4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And this is spot on. It isn't all Carson’s fault but he does have to take some blame and he was at fault for some issues. 

Tommy Lawlor hit the nail on the head in last night's Iggles Blitz piece:

Quote

Some people are going to overreact to his performance and question Wentz. He absolutely deserves criticism, but just watch that first half performance and you’ll see how good he can be.

It was troubling to see him handle adversity so poorly. Things just kind of snowballed. One bad play led to another. He made poor decisions. His accuracy became an issue. Wentz didn’t show much of a feel for the game. When you are protecting a lead and playing with backup OL, be smart. Play safe.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, time2rock said:

Tommy Lawlor hit the nail on the head in his latest IggleBlitz piece:

 

The issue there is that... This seems to be Carson all over. Hot and cold. Capable of the insane, capable of the infuriating. At some point that may just be who he is. 

[mr_hunt]

[Swartz] Carson Wentz has 19 fumbles in 17 games since the start of 2019. That's an insane amount and it's a disturbing trend because he's just not getting better at avoiding sack fumbles by holding on to the ball too long. #Eagles

 

[Talonblood]

13 hours ago, Green_Guinness said:

Yeah, parallel projections.  

I will say that I thought Wentz was cerebral enough that he'd learn from his mistakes and make adjustments to his game, but seems like he's repeating the same mistakes over and over.  Mainly, holding on to the ball too long.  As a QB you have to have that clock in your head that tells you to either roll outside the tackle box and throw it away or tuck it and take the F off.  Taking that sack for a FRIGGIN' THIRTEEN YARD LOSS is inexcusable.  It goes from a 40yd FG to a 53yd FG and guess what?  We missed the damned FG.  

Yes, our OL today was makeshift, but as the QB you should know this and adjust your game to put your team in the best position to win.  Up 17-0 with less than 2 minutes in the 1st half and you turn the ball over on a 1st down play on your side of the field?  He has to be better than that.

I'm not giving up on him for now, but I need to see that he has the ability to learn from his mistakes, correct them and become better.  That's what truly elite talent does.

 

What's hitting me in the gut is the reality that instead of improving every year, he keeps making the same mistakes over and over again- as if he is either unteachable or just not able to stop making those mistakes. That has me concerned. I never give up on things or people very easily. I am not giving up on Wentz just yet, but it has been 5 years... and those KINDS of mistakes he is making should be rare and not the norm. He is making them the norm.

Not throwing the ball away is not only stupid and hurting the team, but is how he is going to get himself injured- again. I need to see him change, but he seems unteachable to me now. Like he REFUSES to accept certain things and will NOT do them, because "that's just how I play." No humility, and way too much pride. It should be "That's just how WE play"- by doing what the COACHES are trying to tell him to do- check down or throw it away. If you are hurting the team, swallow your pride, get some humility, become teachable, and grow. If not... 

[EaglesfanfromND]

7 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Tommy Lawlor hit the nail on the head in last night's Iggles Blitz piece:

 

When I was watching the second half and Carson just seemed to be making one mistake after another I couldn't help but wonder if having McCown on the sideline would have helped him get out of that funk. It didn't seem like Press even tried. 

[Gannan]

23 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think Doug should be questioned as it is. I'm not saying fire him but I think it's becoming quite clear that his success had a lot to do with the coaches he had in 2017.

I love Doug, but yeah I think giving up some control over play calling would probably help. It's been all down hill from 2017. Yesterday looked like a really badly coached Andy Reid game from 2012. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Gannan said:

I love Doug, but yeah I think giving up some control over play calling would probably help. It's been all down hill from 2017. Yesterday looked like a really badly coached Andy Reid game from 2012. 

After the football team scored to make it 17-7 it was the same stale plays that we all complained about last year.  Did we even move the pocket once yesterday ??

[Talonblood]

12 hours ago, Green_Guinness said:

True.  If he's going to hold onto the ball that long then he has to learn how to protect it, which he has NOT done to this point.

He is a little thing he might want to memorize:

"Hold on to the ball too long;
you'll be holding up your x-rays
and MRI's before long."
 

[Hawkeye]

13 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Tommy Lawlor hit the nail on the head in last night's Iggles Blitz piece:

 

He nailed it.  Wentz has all the physical tools a franchise QB could ask for but he doesn't seem to have the emotional IQ.  He looked like the MVP caliber player he can be in the first half but collapsed mentally and physically when the pressure was turned up in the second.  

The Eagles have to figure this out. Because of his contract Wentz can't be traded our cut ("Tank for Trevor"?  Spare me).  They need to get inside his head.