Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[315Eagles]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

I can tell you that if Wentz had Darnel Autry as his starting back, Torrance Small and Charles Johnson’s as his starting receivers, and Chad Lewis as his TE no only is he not winning much of anything, but he’s also gonna look as bad if not worse than McNabb did as a passer. 

Yes McNabb had Autry, Torrance Small and Charles Johnson.  How many years did he have those guys?  Just curious.

[Gannan]

Just now, downundermike said:

After the football team scored to make it 17-7 it was the same stale plays that we all complained about last year.  Did we even move the pocket once yesterday ??

Yep, at that point we still had a healthy lead and should have been running. Wentz needs to be more accurate. He missed some throws that could have won that game for us, but Doug didn't do him any favors with the play calling. Also what happened to Desean?

[315Eagles]

1 hour ago, xBMTx said:

McNabb is better than Wentz. Wentz would never survive the way defenses were allowed to play during McNabb's era. The rules were changed because of how our wide receivers were man handled during the Panthers NFCCG.

I respect your opinion.  But in what ways was McNabb better?  

[Talonblood]

7 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Wentz has some things to improve on, but he had no chance yesterday after WAS figured out the Oline scheme.  Its a different game with Lane, Brooks, and Dillard....and any semblence of a running game.  This team has a depth and experience problem that is going to kill this season.

I'll also add that the skill guys, including CW, seemed to run out of gas in the 3rd.  

Maybe it should just come down to this:
"The Philadelphia Eagles forfeit the 2020-2021 season due to not being able to field a football team, due to having too many injured players."  Repeat and rinse.

[The Norseman]

aaaaand it's another week one loss in TATE

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Also what happened to Desean?

He said he is fine, so I expect him to miss a couple of weeks.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

aaaaand it's another week one loss in TATE

??? Eagles were 8-2 in week 1 going into yesterday, and had won 4 straight.

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

Yes McNabb had Autry, Torrance Small and Charles Johnson.  How many years did he have those guys?  Just curious.

 

2 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

Yes McNabb had Autry, Torrance Small and Charles Johnson.  How many years did he have those guys?  Just curious.

He had Small and Johnson for two seasons then he got lucky and graduated to Thrash, Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell, and Na Brown. Yay. 

[315Eagles]

1 hour ago, MagicMoment said:

I’m uncertain how things would have played out yesterday if Mcnabb was out there but I do know he did more with less than Carson has done in a passing league. 

What has Carson had since hes been in the league?  His best supporting cast was 2017 and he was playing like an MVP.  

Run game outside of 2017 has been inconsistent.  Think he had  Ryan Mathews his rookie year.  Then the likes of Josh Adams, Smallwood.  Ajayi got injured after 2017.  

His WRs were DGB and Agholor his rookie year.  Alshon, Djax, have been injured too often.  Why are we so desperate for WRs?  Because we need them.  It's why we drafted one in the 1st round. 

His only constant has been Ertz.  

McNabb had Duce, Buckhalter, Westbrook, Chad Lewis, Celek, Djax, T.O., throughout his career.

Neither guy has had all pro weapons consistently but it's not like McNabb had bums around him.

[The Norseman]

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

??? Eagles were 8-2 in week 1 going into yesterday, and had won 4 straight.

If there is one thing about this team we know its that there is no consistency.  Sometimes works against us, and sometimes for us. They are not a good team right now, but I'm not ready to come to any conclusions about Carson, Doug or anyone else until I see this season play out.  

[Talonblood]

4 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

There are several things at play here, but they seem glaringly obvious to me.

First, he's clearly been coddled by the organization. He's been anointed the starter from day one, and despite Foles' success in his absence, Wentz never had to feel like he had to fight for his job. It's never been contingent on performance, and they've created a situation where it seems established that the starting job is owed to him, rather than having to earn it.

Secondly, there has never seemed to be much an internal effort to challenge Wentz from a football standpoint and coach him up to his potential. I believe it was only two years ago that we heard Wentz was not getting along with his QB coach (DeFelippo) over trying to fix his mechanics and, more generally, that he has a history of getting into arguments with his coaches. At the end of season, they lost two coaches (DeFelippo and Reich) with the stature and cajones to challenge Wentz  to be better, as well as the skill needed to gameplan around him. Rather than hire on new coaches with a similar willingness and ability to challenge Wentz, the FO opted to promote internally, elevating guys who lacked the reputation and qualifications (Groh and Taylor) to coach an NFL QB and command the respect of a seemingly entitled prospect like Wentz.

Finally, Wentz just seems to lack the composure and wherewithal to handle the exigencies of being a starting QB in the NFL. His on-field awareness at times is terrible, and that's not something you really can teach. Beyond that, though, it's his attitude that I find most concerning. I said this is the GDT yesterday, but Wentz just has some of the worst body language I've ever seen in a franchise QB. He does not handle disappointment well on the field. After every poor drive, it seems that Wentz is always visibly frustrated, then he walks over dejectedly to the bench, isolates himself, throws a towel over his head, and stares at a tablet until the next series. There's no communication with coaches or teammates about how to fix things, no high-fiving guys and lifting their spirits. To the contrary, it seems that Wentz's teammates have to come find him sulking on the bench to try to lift him up, and the coaches seem to content to just let him figure things out on his own. God forbid one of them ask Wentz "What the hell were you thinking out there?" when he makes a boneheaded play. God forbid they actually make their first-round pick earn a massive contract extension instead of just giving him $30m/yr. like it's nothing.

The problem is that this has never been about maximizing Went'z potential by instilling in him the knowledge and discipline needed to succeed at the position. It hasn't been about getting good ROI for your top prospect. Instead, it's been about protecting him, showing him love, and constantly reassuring him that he's the starter. At times, it's been an exercise in emotional support rather than athletic development. The truth is that, coming up through a small school in ND, Wentz never really had to work hard to be successful on the field; his god-given physical traits were enough for him to succeed playing with kids who were nowhere near the athletic specimen that he was. But the NFL is the great equalizer where everyone eventually finds out that they, too, need to constantly work on their craft to compete among the best of the best.

Like anyone else, Wentz needs to really put his nose to the grindstone to be great in the NFL, and the organization needs to challenge him to do so. He needs to be held accountable. But with Wentz, there seems to be this contentment within the organization to let him rest on his unearned laurels. The FO and coaching staff seem beholden to this aura of Wentz as the franchise QB, like they owe Wentz a job rather than Wentz owing the organization a commitment to excellence. Honestly, who could blame the guy for having a sense of entitlement by this point? It's practically been cultivated. This is how you breed complacency and aloofness in a young NFL star and squander prime talent.

I haven't given up on Wentz, but I'm very concerned.  The potential is there, but I just don't know if this organization has the common sense and chutzpah to get it out of him. They're not doing him any favors.

This is so well written, TY for putting in the effort. I agree with so much of it. It's really sad to have to get to this place, but the only hope I have left for Wentz is that the by signing Hurt, the team is now saying "Put up or shut up"- so to speak. I didn't see it that way when they drafted Hurts, but just maybe there is more to it. That they realize they can't coddle him anymore and he needs a fire lit under his a**. And yes, some teammates need to start getting in his face and tell it like it is, without fear of repercussions. Wentz needs to be able to adjust to it, use it as motivation and flat out ball out. If not...

[315Eagles]

5 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

 

He had Small and Johnson for two seasons then he got luck and graduated to Thrash, Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell, and Na Brown. Yay. 

Well Wentz has had weapons galore......

It's why we drafted a Wr in the 1st round and drafted 3 total.   But we dont really need them because he already has receivers to throw to?

[Gannan]

The receivers were consistently open yesterday... just sayin'

[Talonblood]

4 hours ago, Sturm said:

Ok wow, this topic was interesting to read.

Let me start by saying I have always been in the camp of keeping Nick after 2018 and trading Carson for a King's Ransom. You could have gotten so many picks and players would have broken a record.

I am not saying Nick is better that Carson, but Nick was the Best QB for our Eagles. Him and Dougie were perfect for each other. Its not always about having that Elite QB and Great head coach to get you the wins, but its about the QB and Coach on the same page. I have never once believe Doug and Carson were good together. Doug looked so good with his RPOs with Nick at the helm 2017 and 2018. If Nick never got to play in 2018 I would have been 100% behind Carson as our QB and calling 2017 a fluke.

That didn't happen though, in 2018 Nick comes in and turns the team around. He understood the coach and Doug trusted Nick. Doug really trusts Nick a lot more than Carson.

Again, Carson is the better QB, but Nick is the better QB for the Philadelphia Eagles.

 

Edit, I digress though, Nick is gone need to look ahead.

With that though Carson is our QB and going forward at this this year and next year we have to find a way to fix this kid. As others have stated though 5 years and still the same problems. Maybe we need to change up the Offense to cater to his jitters.

Nick was humble and teachable. I don't think Wentz is either anymore.

[EaglePhan1986]

He’s closer to McNabb than Rodgers 

[greend]

41 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

aaaaand it's another week one loss in TATE

we're 4-1 in week one

[EazyEaglez]

26 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Well Wentz has had weapons galore......

It's why we drafted a Wr in the 1st round and drafted 3 total.   But we dont really need them because he already has receivers to throw to?

Are you really trying to say Wentz hasn’t had any good receivers at all? Did McNabb ever have a TE as good as Ertz? Heck did he ever have one as good as Goedert? Funny Carson’s receivers were so terrible they went on and won a Super Bowl without him. Go figure. 

[315Eagles]

12 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Are you really trying to say Wentz hasn’t had any good receivers at all? Did McNabb ever have a TE as good as Ertz? Heck did he ever have one as good as Goedert? Funny Carson’s receivers were so terrible they went on and won a Super Bowl without him. Go figure. 

If you read what I said I'm not talking 2017.  Alshon played every game, Agholor was the one year he finally shined, Torrey Smith was a quality #2.  Plus with Blount and Ajayi they had a good run game.  Wentz had plenty of weapons and look what happened.  He was the MVP before his injury.

Kinda like the year McNabb went to the SB.  Had TO, Westbrook, Chad Lewis before his injury.  It was his best supporting cast.

So no Carsons WRs weren't terrible the SB year and I made that clear before.  But what about his rookie year?  What about last year, his 4th year?  He had so many Wr options that they drafted 3 wrs this year, 1 in the 1st round.  Agholor blows outside of 1 year.  Alshon has been hurt outside of 2017.  Djax missed 15 games last year.  

Yes hes had Ertz.  That's his 1 constant.  McNabb had Westbrook for several years who is a dangerous player running and receiving.

We both agree Wentz isnt elite.  We disagree on who's better between 11 and 5.  I got to run to work......✌

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, 315Eagles said:

If you read what I said I'm not talking 2017.  Alshon played every game, Agholor was the one year he finally shined, Torrey Smith was a quality #2.  Plus with Blount and Ajayi they had a good run game.  Wentz had plenty of weapons and look what happened.  He was the MVP before his injury.

Kinda like the year McNabb went to the SB.  Had TO, Westbrook, Chad Lewis before his injury.  It was his best supporting cast.

So no Carsons WRs weren't terrible the SB year and I made that clear before.  But what about his rookie year?  What about last year, his 4th year?  He had so many Wr options that they drafted 3 wrs this year, 1 in the 1st round.  Agholor blows outside of 1 year.  Alshon has been hurt outside of 2017.  Djax missed 15 games last year.  

Yes hes had Ertz.  That's his 1 constant.  McNabb had Westbrook for several years who is a dangerous player running and receiving.

We both agree Wentz isnt elite.  We disagree on who's better between 11 and 5.  I got to run to work......✌

Agholor 2 seasons of 60 catches or more. Both with Wentz. You put Carson’s fist 5 seasons of Weapons against McNabb’s first 5 and his group easily wins. McNabb never in his first five had a receiver on the level of Ertz. His best receiver in that span was James Thrash. Carson couldn’t do squats with the stiffs McNabb had to endure in his first five. Carson in his second season literally had SB weapons. The next year what happened? Suddenly all those weapons stunk? Why is that? Maybe cause Carson stunk, because as soon as he was benched they went to the playoffs. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

I love Doug, but yeah I think giving up some control over play calling would probably help. It's been all down hill from 2017. Yesterday looked like a really badly coached Andy Reid game from 2012. 

I don't even know if it's the play calling to be honest... He called plays in 2017 and we were absolutely fine.

[EazyEaglez]

3 hours ago, xBMTx said:

McNabb is better than Wentz. Wentz would never survive the way defenses were allowed to play during McNabb's era. The rules were changed because of how our wide receivers were man handled during the Panthers NFCCG.

Clearly if you take away the regular season and playoff success, and anything else McNabb has over Wentz then it’s clear Wentz is better. 😂

[Gannan]

21 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't even know if it's the play calling to be honest... He called plays in 2017 and we were absolutely fine.

He called them but I think Frank Reich had is ear and could suggest some schemes and kinds of plays on the fly. Not sure there is anyone doing that now. 

[time2rock]

3 minutes ago, Gannan said:

He called them but I think Frank Reich had is ear and could suggest some schemes and kinds of plays on the fly. Not sure there is anyone doing that now. 

He also had DeFilippo (who was serving as QB coach but previously had been an OC at both the college and NFL levels) who also was a big part of game planning.  He may not have proven to be anything special when he was in Minny or Jacksonville but I believe this was one of those situations where "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" applies.  

[EagleVA]

1 hour ago, 315Eagles said:

I respect your opinion.  But in what ways was McNabb better?  

Mobility for one.

[GeorgeM37]

1 hour ago, 315Eagles said:

What has Carson had since hes been in the league?  His best supporting cast was 2017 and he was playing like an MVP.  

Run game outside of 2017 has been inconsistent.  Think he had  Ryan Mathews his rookie year.  Then the likes of Josh Adams, Smallwood.  Ajayi got injured after 2017.  

His WRs were DGB and Agholor his rookie year.  Alshon, Djax, have been injured too often.  Why are we so desperate for WRs?  Because we need them.  It's why we drafted one in the 1st round. 

His only constant has been Ertz.  

McNabb had Duce, Buckhalter, Westbrook, Chad Lewis, Celek, Djax, T.O., throughout his career.

Neither guy has had all pro weapons consistently but it's not like McNabb had bums around him.

For the first half of his career oh yes the hell he DID have bums around him....dont you remember AR refused to run?? He had TO all of ONE season.....lets not act like he had Djax for so long...