Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[Arsenal79]

5 hours ago, GeorgeM37 said:

RIGHT!! I remember literally screaming at the tv because of that play....I was like "ARE YOU TRYING TO GET HIM KILLED??!!".....I believe Ertz sat out the next play because of that....things like that simply cannot continue.....

Didn't Ertz break his rib on that terrible throw by Carson?

[GeorgeM37]

2 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

Didn't Ertz break his rib on that terrible throw by Carson?

Yes, I thought that was that particular hit. Yes....broken ribs because of it....I remember cringing watching that unfold...

[Madriver]

2 hours ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

He’s closer to McNabb than Rodgers 

He's closer to Kolb than Mcnabb.

[Arsenal79]

7 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

There are several things at play here, but they seem glaringly obvious to me.

First, he's clearly been coddled by the organization. He's been anointed the starter from day one, and despite Foles' success in his absence, Wentz never had to feel like he had to fight for his job. It's never been contingent on performance, and they've created a situation where it seems established that the starting job is owed to him, rather than having to earn it.

Secondly, there has never seemed to be much an internal effort to challenge Wentz from a football standpoint and coach him up to his potential. I believe it was only two years ago that we heard Wentz was not getting along with his QB coach (DeFelippo) over trying to fix his mechanics and, more generally, that he has a history of getting into arguments with his coaches. At the end of season, they lost two coaches (DeFelippo and Reich) with the stature and cajones to challenge Wentz  to be better, as well as the skill needed to gameplan around him. Rather than hire on new coaches with a similar willingness and ability to challenge Wentz, the FO opted to promote internally, elevating guys who lacked the reputation and qualifications (Groh and Taylor) to coach an NFL QB and command the respect of a seemingly entitled prospect like Wentz.

Finally, Wentz just seems to lack the composure and wherewithal to handle the exigencies of being a starting QB in the NFL. His on-field awareness at times is terrible, and that's not something you really can teach. Beyond that, though, it's his attitude that I find most concerning. I said this is the GDT yesterday, but Wentz just has some of the worst body language I've ever seen in a franchise QB. He does not handle disappointment well on the field. After every poor drive, it seems that Wentz is always visibly frustrated, then he walks over dejectedly to the bench, isolates himself, throws a towel over his head, and stares at a tablet until the next series. There's no communication with coaches or teammates about how to fix things, no high-fiving guys and lifting their spirits. To the contrary, it seems that Wentz's teammates have to come find him sulking on the bench to try to lift him up, and the coaches seem to content to just let him figure things out on his own. God forbid one of them ask Wentz "What the hell were you thinking out there?" when he makes a boneheaded play. God forbid they actually make their first-round pick earn a massive contract extension instead of just giving him $30m/yr. like it's nothing.

The problem is that this has never been about maximizing Went'z potential by instilling in him the knowledge and discipline needed to succeed at the position. It hasn't been about getting good ROI for your top prospect. Instead, it's been about protecting him, showing him love, and constantly reassuring him that he's the starter. At times, it's been an exercise in emotional support rather than athletic development. The truth is that, coming up through a small school in ND, Wentz never really had to work hard to be successful on the field; his god-given physical traits were enough for him to succeed playing with kids who were nowhere near the athletic specimen that he was. But the NFL is the great equalizer where everyone eventually finds out that they, too, need to constantly work on their craft to compete among the best of the best.

Like anyone else, Wentz needs to really put his nose to the grindstone to be great in the NFL, and the organization needs to challenge him to do so. He needs to be held accountable. But with Wentz, there seems to be this contentment within the organization to let him rest on his unearned laurels. The FO and coaching staff seem beholden to this aura of Wentz as the franchise QB, like they owe Wentz a job rather than Wentz owing the organization a commitment to excellence. Honestly, who could blame the guy for having a sense of entitlement by this point? It's practically been cultivated. This is how you breed complacency and aloofness in a young NFL star and squander prime talent.

I haven't given up on Wentz, but I'm very concerned.  The potential is there, but I just don't know if this organization has the common sense and chutzpah to get it out of him. They're not doing him any favors.

Brilliant post that nails it.

It's unfortunate because he has all the physical talent in the world, but he just doesn't have it upstairs.  Making the same stupid mistakes 5 years in proves it.

If he had "it", he would have swallowed his pride and improved on those factors already.

[Madriver]

2 hours ago, Talonblood said:

What's hitting me in the gut is the reality that instead of improving every year, he keeps making the same mistakes over and over again- as if he is either unteachable or just not able to stop making those mistakes. That has me concerned. I never give up on things or people very easily. I am not giving up on Wentz just yet, but it has been 5 years... and those KINDS of mistakes he is making should be rare and not the norm. He is making them the norm.

Not throwing the ball away is not only stupid and hurting the team, but is how he is going to get himself injured- again. I need to see him change, but he seems unteachable to me now. Like he REFUSES to accept certain things and will NOT do them, because "that's just how I play." No humility, and way too much pride. It should be "That's just how WE play"- by doing what the COACHES are trying to tell him to do- check down or throw it away. If you are hurting the team, swallow your pride, get some humility, become teachable, and grow. If not... 

The problem is not what he does when things go well and all the pieces are in place. Give him a healthy OL and weapons and I have no doubt he will excel. So would Tannehill and any 3rd string-level professional QB. I never judge a person by how they do when things are great. We can all function well in those circumstances.

The issue is how does this guy respond when things around him collapse. Does he keep his composure? Does he rally his troops? Or does he sink into self pity and keep making the same mistakes over and over again? Wentz seems to be the latte, unfortunately.

As someone else said in this thread, credit the FO for drafting Hurts against all criticisms and realizing they have a problem on their hands.

[Bwestbrook36]

10 hours ago, time2rock said:

Some of the sacks were definitely on a breakdown in the OL (likely just not having developed any chemistry from the lack of continuity), but man that one he stared down Sweat all the way in coming off the right edge ... Carson looked like a deer in headlights.  He had PLENTY of time to unload the ball but froze - that was maddening to watch.  A few others he certainly had an opportunity to get rid of the ball to avoid taking the sack and losing the yardage but stubbornly held on to the ball.  Again, maddening.  

I can not express to you how much I am a homer when it comes to Wentz but, holy eff. 50 fumbles in 57 games is absolutely dreadful and a joke. 

[T-1000]

A better offensive line and better weapons isn't going to change the things about Wentz which are holding him back from being an elite QB. Injuries, decision making, pocket presence, and inconsistency as a passer. It's year five, he is what he is. He has elite level talent, can look elite for stretches, but overall is a very good QB who will tease and frustrate the hell out of you. They could absolutely win a SB with Wentz. However, he'd had to have one of his hot stretches during a playoff run, and even then it's going to be tough considering he is being paid so much and the team can't supplement the roster with cheap talent by drafting well.

[Bwestbrook36]

5 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

A better offensive line and better weapons isn't going to change the things about Wentz which are holding him back from being an elite QB. Injuries, decision making, pocket presence, and inconsistency as a passer. It's year five, he is what he is. He has elite level talent, can look elite for stretches, but overall is a very good QB who will tease and frustrate the hell out of you.

Basically McNabb, I can live with that. McNabb had a lot of great years here and there is no shame in Wentz being in that category. Take him off this elite pedistal everyone has him on and I think we would be much happier. Actually think Wentz is better then McNabb but again isn't top 5 but, can be and has been very damn good. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, Madriver said:

The problem is not what he does when things go well and all the pieces are in place. Give him a healthy OL and weapons and I have no doubt he will excel. So would Tannehill and any 3rd string-level professional QB. I never judge a person by how they do when things are great. We can all function well in those circumstances.

The issue is how does this guy respond when things around him collapse. Does he keep his composure? Does he rally his troops? Or does he sink into self pity and keep making the same mistakes over and over again? Wentz seems to be the latte, unfortunately.

As someone else said in this thread, credit the FO for drafting Hurts against all criticisms and realizing they have a problem on their hands.

I’ve been highly critical of the pick of Hurts, but it seems clear the Eagles are preparing for life without Wentz.

[Bwestbrook36]

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’ve been highly critical of the pick of Hurts, but it seems clear the Eagles are preparing for life without Wentz.

I still don't have a problem with the Hurts pick and that is with me saying I'm a Wentz homer. This can all fall apart at any minute with Wentz, I absolutely love the guy but, at the same time I don't trust any of this going on with him going forward. Hurts so far is being talked up as a great kid with a great skill set. Eagles protected themselves plain and simple with that pick. I do not blame then for one minute. Again I do not blame Wentz fo all of this and I still don't want him here but, it is getting scetchy at this point

[Talonblood]

1 hour ago, Madriver said:

The problem is not what he does when things go well and all the pieces are in place. Give him a healthy OL and weapons and I have no doubt he will excel. So would Tannehill and any 3rd string-level professional QB. I never judge a person by how they do when things are great. We can all function well in those circumstances.

The issue is how does this guy respond when things around him collapse. Does he keep his composure? Does he rally his troops? Or does he sink into self pity and keep making the same mistakes over and over again? Wentz seems to be the latte, unfortunately.

As someone else said in this thread, credit the FO for drafting Hurts against all criticisms and realizing they have a problem on their hands.

I hated the Hurts pick. But upon further review....

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

I still don't have a problem with the Hurts pick and that is with me saying I'm a Wentz homer. This can all fall apart at any minute with Wentz, I absolutely love the guy but, at the same time I don't trust any of this going on with him going forward. Hurts so far is being talked up as a great kid with a great skill set. Eagles protected themselves plain and simple with that pick. I do not blame then for one minute. Again I do not blame Wentz fo all of this and I still don't want him here but, it is getting scetchy at this point

In the end it thought drafting Hurts would do more harm than good. Despite all of the earlier posturing it’s clear their plan is to groom that kid. In any case I still can be critical of Howie here. He threw all his eggs into Wentz and if he’s faltering then it means Howie screwed up. 

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

In the end it thought drafting Hurts would do more harm than good. Despite all of the earlier posturing it’s clear their plan is to groom that kid. In any case I still can be critical of Howie here. He threw all his eggs into Wentz and if he’s faltering then it means Howie screwed up. 

I can't blame Howie for that, Wentz was the kind of guy you take a chance on and it looked early on like it was going to pay off. Wentz is still really good just not a top 3 as we hoped and neither was McNabb and he was taken at the same spot. McNabb gave a lot of good years..... Yes I realize as I say that Wentz hasn't even given us what McNabb has. Still Wentz was the right guy to go after and still could be that guy just not as extraordinary as we hoped. Doug was all about Wentz too they both were all in on him. Doug doesn't help Wentz all the time either with his play calling. 

Doug does the same sheet reid did with McNabb dump everything on him no matter what is going on but, balance it out for the back up. It's ridiculous on so many levels

[EazyEaglez]

34 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I can't blame Howie for that, Wentz was the kind of guy you take a chance on and it looked early on like it was going to pay off. Wentz is still really good just not a top 3 as we hoped and neither was McNabb and he was taken at the same spot. McNabb gave a lot of good years..... Yes I realize as I say that Wentz hasn't even given us what McNabb has. Still Wentz was the right guy to go after and still could be that guy just not as extraordinary as we hoped. Doug was all about Wentz too they both were all in on him. Doug doesn't help Wentz all the time either with his play calling. 

Doug does the same sheet reid did with McNabb dump everything on him no matter what is going on but, balance it out for the back up. It's ridiculous on so many levels

Well I’m sorry bud, but I can’t be happy the Eagles drafted Wentz and Hurts. They bother can’t be the right thing to do. Someone has to get the blame. 😂🤣😂

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

Well I’m sorry bud, but I can’t be happy the Eagles drafted Wentz and Hurts. They bother can’t be the right thing to do. Someone has to get the blame. 😂🤣😂

Oh whatever!! Lol. All good man. I know where you are coming from. I just still have a little less hate in my heart then you do. One of us will catch up with the other sooner or later lol. 

[CaliEagle]

Here are the top 10 fumble leaders from profootball reference.  Favre is Carson's idol. Well, the way he is going, he is going to get to 166 fumbles in about half the time it took  Favre to get there. Right now, Wentz is like a hybrid of Favre with the pocket awareness of Kerry Collins.  Favre actually had pretty good pocket awareness. He just was too much of a gunslinger for his own good.  Carson actually has done a pretty good job minimizing interceptions, except for Sunday. But, his situational awareness is lacking. If you have a 17-0 lead with less than 3 min before half, you don't turn it over or throw it in a very tight window.  If the Eagles keep that 17-0 lead going into half, I think they win that game. But, once we gave up that TD and then went 3 and out with that first series, it put the wheels in motion for a melt down.

 

 

Rank	Player	Fmb	Years	Tm
1	Brett Favre +	166	1991-2010	4TM
2	Warren Moon+	161	1984-2000	4TM
3	Dave Krieg	153	1980-1998	6TM
4	Kerry Collins	139	1995-2011	6TM
5	John Elway+	137	1983-1998	den
6	Eli Manning	125	2004-2019	nyg
7	Drew Bledsoe	123	1993-2006	3TM
	Tom Brady	123	2000-2020	2TM
	Boomer Esiason	123	1984-1997	3TM
10	Vinny Testaverde	116	1987-2007

[Bwestbrook36]

12 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

Here are the top 10 fumble leaders from profootball reference.  Favre is Carson's idol. Well, the way he is going, he is going to get to 166 fumbles in about half the time it took  Favre to get there. Right now, Wentz is like a hybrid of Favre with the pocket awareness of Kerry Collins.  Favre actually had pretty good pocket awareness. He just was too much of a gunslinger for his own good.  Carson actually has done a pretty good job minimizing interceptions, except for Sunday. But, his situational awareness is lacking. If you have a 17-0 lead with less than 3 min before half, you don't turn it over or throw it in a very tight window.  If the Eagles keep that 17-0 lead going into half, I think they win that game. But, once we gave up that TD and then went 3 and out with that first series, it put the wheels in motion for a melt down.

 

 

Rank	Player	Fmb	Years	Tm
1	Brett Favre +	166	1991-2010	4TM
2	Warren Moon+	161	1984-2000	4TM
3	Dave Krieg	153	1980-1998	6TM
4	Kerry Collins	139	1995-2011	6TM
5	John Elway+	137	1983-1998	den
6	Eli Manning	125	2004-2019	nyg
7	Drew Bledsoe	123	1993-2006	3TM
	Tom Brady	123	2000-2020	2TM
	Boomer Esiason	123	1984-1997	3TM
10	Vinny Testaverde	116	1987-2007

Like I said yesterday he is reckless when it isn't even necessary. Playing hero ball when you are leading is just plain stupid. 

[MagicMoment]

6 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

What has Carson had since hes been in the league?  His best supporting cast was 2017 and he was playing like an MVP.  

Run game outside of 2017 has been inconsistent.  Think he had  Ryan Mathews his rookie year.  Then the likes of Josh Adams, Smallwood.  Ajayi got injured after 2017.  

His WRs were DGB and Agholor his rookie year.  Alshon, Djax, have been injured too often.  Why are we so desperate for WRs?  Because we need them.  It's why we drafted one in the 1st round. 

His only constant has been Ertz.  

McNabb had Duce, Buckhalter, Westbrook, Chad Lewis, Celek, Djax, T.O., throughout his career.

Neither guy has had all pro weapons consistently but it's not like McNabb had bums around him.

 You think McNabb had T.O throughout his career? LOL

[Road to Victory]

21 hours ago, Jeep_man said:

There is got to be a way to package Wentz & Ertz  together for a trade in return for some serious capital next offseason....

Capital for what? So Howie can draft another Barnett, Dillard, Arcega-Whiteside or Hurts. No thanks. 

[MrFadedGlory]

49 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

Capital for what? So Howie can draft another Barnett, Dillard, Arcega-Whiteside or Hurts. No thanks. 

Can we get Ozzie Newsome Out of BAL as our GM? pay him like 6mil a year

[hputenis]

5 hours ago, Madriver said:

The problem is not what he does when things go well and all the pieces are in place. Give him a healthy OL and weapons and I have no doubt he will excel. So would Tannehill and any 3rd string-level professional QB. I never judge a person by how they do when things are great. We can all function well in those circumstances.

The issue is how does this guy respond when things around him collapse. Does he keep his composure? Does he rally his troops? Or does he sink into self pity and keep making the same mistakes over and over again? Wentz seems to be the latte, unfortunately.

As someone else said in this thread, credit the FO for drafting Hurts against all criticisms and realizing they have a problem on their hands.

Hi.  I'm the last 4 games of the regular season last year.  Have we met??  

[EagleMatt]

Still early but wasnt impressed by him and his decision making, or lack of. Doug too.

[NOTW]

8 hours ago, The Norseman said:

aaaaand it's another week one loss in TATE

 

8 hours ago, downundermike said:

??? Eagles were 8-2 in week 1 going into yesterday, and had won 4 straight.

[315Eagles]

7 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Agholor 2 seasons of 60 catches or more. Both with Wentz. You put Carson’s fist 5 seasons of Weapons against McNabb’s first 5 and his group easily wins. McNabb never in his first five had a receiver on the level of Ertz. His best receiver in that span was James Thrash. Carson couldn’t do squats with the stiffs McNabb had to endure in his first five. Carson in his second season literally had SB weapons. The next year what happened? Suddenly all those weapons stunk? Why is that? Maybe cause Carson stunk, because as soon as he was benched they went to the playoffs. 

😄 Ok you win.  I'll call Howie tonight and try to get Wentz traded.  No guarantees tho.

[315Eagles]

7 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Mobility for one.

You're right.  At least McNabb would escape the pocket if pressure was coming.