1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

If the NFL had a total re-draft and you had a top pick, would you bet your families lives on picking Jalen Hurts over Josh Allen?

I’ll take pro bowl shaduer sanders

After last season there was a need for answers about the offense so everyone is essentially on the hot seat to prove they can get results. I wonder if the pieces are good by themselves but the combination is not.

Head Coach

What is Nick's role in the offense, through different OCs, and why can't he fix things? The best offensive years came with experienced OCs who then were hired to Head Coach jobs. Each time Nick replaced them with internal hires who had never called plays. Now an external hire with no experience. That calls for the HC to support. But this time it's a new scheme as well. Last year the offense struggled and Patullo sucked, and the only known real change was to demote Stoutland who is now gone.

Nick obviously has done things well as the Head Coach, you don't make the playoffs 5 years in a row by accident. But recent game day decisions have been costly and many citing as the reasons they lost, calls to fire him. Is he making erratic decisions feeling the pressure? When the offense struggles, what is the expectation of the Head Coach? People also say he didn't pick his QB, but he did accept the job with the QBs on the roster. Has Nick petitioned Howie to draft a QB high like he did with having Wentz and drafting Hurts? People say Nick had influence after the SB win. Why hasn't Nick used his influence to change the QB if that's the issue? Or is Nick loyal to his players to a fault? (Is Nick the reason they stuck with injured Dickerson and Jurgens last year?)

Offensive Coordinator

An external hire with only 2 years coaching experience and never as an OC, never called plays. The pressure was on last year to fix the offense and they chose the "evil genius" who was said to be an up and coming mind in the NFL. In preseason he was trying out calling plays from the sidelines and booth to see what he likes. They brought in other offensive assistants with more experience to help Mannion and supposedly as insurance to take over if he can't do the job. Some think he isn't allowed to run his offense fully, that Nick interferes or the QB wants things differently, which is contradictory to the idea they pushed Nick aside and brought in someone with an entirely different scheme. It's always a mess with this team wondering who's really in charge.

Quarterback

Hurts has been the QB and has had his ups and downs and a lot has been said about him having a new OC every year, now a whole new scheme. Is it the wrong scheme for the QB and other personnel? Does the OC not get to fully run the offense he wants to run? And if so, is that because Nick overrides him or plays it conservative with a lead? Is it because the QB can't execute so he scales his offense back to accommodate? But why would they do that when in the offseason they hired Mannion with the intent to implement a new scheme and push Nick aside? It makes natural sense for any coach to want to do things that the QB does well, you have to utilize the QBs strengths. Then you have injuries to the O line last year and this year, that affect any team's ability to execute on offense. The run game hasn't been the same for 2 years, and Hurts doesn't run like he used to. Dual threat QBs always face the same issue where as they get older they run less and have to rely on passing more.

Hurts is not a QB that will put up huge passing numbers, his game has been dual threat with a great deep pass and doing enough to put points on the board. He's not going to consistently throw for over 300 yards a game. The criticisms are valid where he doesn't run as much, or not as effective, misses open receivers or makes bad throws. But he also does things well, things that people insist that he can't/won't/refuses to do: throws over the middle, stay in the pocket, complete passes despite a blitz, throw the ball away instead of take a sack...but it's not consistent enough through the games. He shows things in flashes and then the entire offense in the 2nd half goes cold. Including the run game and the screens that never work, which are not the QBs fault.

Are they trying to make these 3 pieces of HC, OC and QB work and it's just not the right formula? We will get more answers as the offensive starters get healthy and young guys like Bell and Kendall continue to develop. And Mannion has to learn fast on the job to prove his "evil genius" hype. Siri also has to figure out a way to make all this work together as they're all on the hot seat. I do think regardless of what happens this year, Howie will draft a QB high to develop and they need a better backup. And if that guy ends up the new starter he'll have a year of experience (or less?) before taking over. If not, they can look at 2028. Howie is always thinking years ahead.

13 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

That's some serious revisionist history.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/42346987/philadelphia-eagles-offensive-line-meeting-turned-season-saquon-barkley-week-11

Mailata, Dickerson and Johnson all went to Sirianni during the bye to pitch a more run heavy approach. Something Moore generally didn't do. They also had much more motion the first 4 weeks and less after the bye, motion being something Moore generally did do.

They brought in Moore to improve the passing game. They ditched it after the bye to win by running. By pitching to Sirianni to run more. That's not Nick being forced to stay out things.

ESPN literally reported before the bye that Nick had ceded offensive control to Kellen and was taking more of a CEO role. Then after the bye, Kellen was the one explaining the changes to the game plan and why they were using less motion to control the line of scrimmage. Nick himself praised Kellen's playcalling after the Browns game.

And look at what happened after the bye. They went 3 and 0, averaged 18+ rushing yards a game and were still at the top in passing. The offense got better when they adjusted the game plan and let Kellen run it.The O line going to Nick and asking to run the ball more doesn't disprove anything. He's the head coach. Players can give him input on the team's identity. They changed how they wanted to play, but Kellen was still calling the offense.

The point isn't that Nick never had any input. It's that Nick had stepped back from offensive control, Kellen was running the offense, and the results improved after the bye. The evidence supports that.

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

After last season there was a need for answers about the offense so everyone is essentially on the hot seat to prove they can get results. I wonder if the pieces are good by themselves but the combination is not.

Are they trying to make these 3 pieces of HC, OC and QB work and it's just not the right formula? We will get more answers as the offensive starters get healthy and young guys like Bell and Kendall continue to develop. And Mannion has to learn fast on the job to prove his "evil genius" hype. Siri also has to figure out a way to make all this work together as they're all on the hot seat.

Quality sentiment summary post, but to add to this, needing time may be a factor.

I know due to recent success especially, Eagles fans react to every single loss like they just got their toenails pulled out by a nearly molten hot pair of tweezers, but it's possible that considering the attempting to change the scheme, there's simply too much being asked in one season. A lot of people supported the idea of trying a different scheme, but it feels like no one took into account that may take time, and expected to instead be an instant contender again.

I think this is especially important to note as the Wide Zone (Shanahan/McVay) offense has a different running game style than ours did, so the line philosophy is different. You don't just wave a magic wand and suddenly everyone is ideal for the new scheme. When Philadelphia fans ask for massive changes, they need to understand that proportional patience is sometimes also required.

4 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

ESPN literally reported before the bye that Nick had ceded offensive control to Kellen and was taking more of a CEO role. Then after the bye, Kellen was the one explaining the changes to the game plan and why they were using less motion to control the line of scrimmage. Nick himself praised Kellen's playcalling after the Browns game.

And look at what happened after the bye. They went 3 and 0, averaged 18+ rushing yards a game and were still at the top in passing. The offense got better when they adjusted the game plan and let Kellen run it.The O line going to Nick and asking to run the ball more doesn't disprove anything. He's the head coach. Players can give him input on the team's identity. They changed how they wanted to play, but Kellen was still calling the offense.

The point isn't that Nick never had any input. It's that Nick had stepped back from offensive control, Kellen was running the offense, and the results improved after the bye. The evidence supports that.

29th in passing that season?

That Browns game was horrid. Want to talk about the giants game where Saquon sat to let the kids eat?

It wasn’t till after the jags game that KM had the opportunity to use the whole playbook successfully.

I'd love to see Hurts with Andy Reid. He has the anithesis of that right now as a head coach. I do think Hurts saw something in Mannion and actually respects him. But of course, for the 100 millionth time injuries have taken over everything, even Hurts (injured calf) that you can't possibly guage anything right now. First two games looked promising with a full roster and scored 24 points in both games. Has shown glimpses in solid 1st halves in the last 3 games. Try playing QB without a running game, that gets you 1 yard per rush. How people can't see the full picture is befuddling. And I'm not here saying he's playing well. He's playing okay given the circumstances, personnel and horrible coaching. He has yet to have 4 quarters of bad football in one game this season. But let's face it, this whole season is 1 big shidd show top to bottom. I am fearing that this whole season goes this way where you just never climb the mountain. Everybody is sucking at some point, even the defense who couldn't close the deal the last 2 games with a lead. And special teams blew a key moment as well. You can point fingers in 100 places. Hopefully they are not pointing fingers themselves or this season is toast. If they come out flat this week (like Bears game), we are probably done and they have quit on the coach.

1 minute ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

Quality sentiment summary post, but to add to this, needing time may be a factor.

I know due to recent success especially, Eagles fans react to every single loss like they just got their toenails pulled out by a nearly molten hot pair of tweezers, but it's possible that considering the attempting to change the scheme, there's simply too much being asked in one season. A lot of people supported the idea of trying a different scheme, but it feels like no one took into account that may take time, and expected to instead be an instant contender again.

I think this is especially important to note as the Wide Zone (Shanahan/McVay) offense has a different running game style than ours did, so the line philosophy is different. You don't just wave a magic wand and suddenly everyone is ideal for the new scheme. When Philadelphia fans ask for massive changes, they need to understand that proportional patience is sometimes also required.

Some people said (myself included) that with a new scheme and new players, new blocking scheme and questions about O line depth given Dickerson and Jurgens health that it may take 4-6 weeks before we see the team come together. Especially because they don't play starters in preseason.

No one likes the injury excuse but it's valid with all the changes to O line. Dickerson, Jurgens and Lane all gone just like that. There is a next man up mentality but you have to also understand the rookie OC is having to make it work while figuring out what works and doesn't. I would actually rather younger healthier guys and let them improve each week and get consistent than all the changes.

Fans expected the last 2 weeks to be blowout losses, and both were close games. The offense is frustrating, and yet they put up enough points and had some dynamic plays (like that great TD pass to Cooper). The 2nd half offense is beyond frustrating and confusing. But by the end, the offense executed and then had the go ahead score.

From the coaches and players perspective you can see why they are always thinking they are close and just need to improve, tweak some things, get healthy, fix some mental mistakes and not need major shake up.

So the next stretch of games will provide some answers. I don't think O line injuries were an excuse this last week, the new unit settled in and played well enough. But there was no run game, and of course they had RBs pulled from the practice squad. It's frustrating, but again they should have won last week despite all the problems. So I want to see if they have fight in them the next few weeks and if they make the necessary improvements.

2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

ESPN literally reported before the bye that Nick had ceded offensive control to Kellen and was taking more of a CEO role. Then after the bye, Kellen was the one explaining the changes to the game plan and why they were using less motion to control the line of scrimmage. Nick himself praised Kellen's playcalling after the Browns game.

And look at what happened after the bye. They went 3 and 0, averaged 18+ rushing yards a game and were still at the top in passing. The offense got better when they adjusted the game plan and let Kellen run it.The O line going to Nick and asking to run the ball more doesn't disprove anything. He's the head coach. Players can give him input on the team's identity. They changed how they wanted to play, but Kellen was still calling the offense.

The point isn't that Nick never had any input. It's that Nick had stepped back from offensive control, Kellen was running the offense, and the results improved after the bye. The evidence supports that.

You didn't provide evidence.

Nick said he was taking a step back, giving Moore more control and being more of a CEO role back in (checks notes) July of 2024.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/eagles-nick-sirianni-explains-why-hes-taken-a-step-back-from-the-offense-with-the-arrival-of-oc-kellen-moore/

The Moore offense wasn't working the first 4 weeks. So they switched back to a run heavy offense like they did in 2021, again something Moore never did. After the team asked Sirianni to do it. And you think they got to the run heavy offense by having Nick be less involved?

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I'll never understand fans that think they should decide for a player when he retires. People should play as long as they want --- even if they're just trying out for a roster spot, hoping to be part of a football team. They can decide for themselves when they no longer want to be a player. The typical window for playing professionally is somewhere between age 20 and age 40. Some can go a bit longer, but then that window closes forever and you can never do that again. So if you love playing football, you should attempt to play as long as you can --- even if it's just as a backup.

The guy is completely broken, have you watched any game the last year and a half? He's going to be in a wheelchair in 3 years if he keeps playing. If he wants to be an idiot and ruin the rest of his life, so be it. The guy is already trying experimental treatments for a degenerative issue, he's done. Jurgens is in the same boat, his back is F'ed, at least he's wasting a roster spot on another team now

15 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

ESPN literally reported before the bye that Nick had ceded offensive control to Kellen and was taking more of a CEO role. Then after the bye, Kellen was the one explaining the changes to the game plan and why they were using less motion to control the line of scrimmage. Nick himself praised Kellen's playcalling after the Browns game.

And look at what happened after the bye. They went 3 and 0, averaged 18+ rushing yards a game and were still at the top in passing. The offense got better when they adjusted the game plan and let Kellen run it.The O line going to Nick and asking to run the ball more doesn't disprove anything. He's the head coach. Players can give him input on the team's identity. They changed how they wanted to play, but Kellen was still calling the offense.

The point isn't that Nick never had any input. It's that Nick had stepped back from offensive control, Kellen was running the offense, and the results improved after the bye. The evidence supports that.

I am reading the ESPN article about Nick ceding control of the offense to Kellen Moore and taking a CEO role. The issue with your post, is that article was Feb 6 2024, the day after Moore was hired, not during the season.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39467569/philadelphia-eagles-nick-sirianni-ceo-type-role

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

Some people said (myself included) that with a new scheme and new players, new blocking scheme and questions about O line depth given Dickerson and Jurgens health that it may take 4-6 weeks before we see the team come together. Especially because they don't play starters in preseason.

No one likes the injury excuse but it's valid with all the changes to O line. Dickerson, Jurgens and Lane all gone just like that. There is a next man up mentality but you have to also understand the rookie OC is having to make it work while figuring out what works and doesn't. I would actually rather younger healthier guys and let them improve each week and get consistent than all the changes.

Fans expected the last 2 weeks to be blowout losses, and both were close games. The offense is frustrating, and yet they put up enough points and had some dynamic plays (like that great TD pass to Cooper). The 2nd half offense is beyond frustrating and confusing. But by the end, the offense executed and then had the go ahead score.

From the coaches and players perspective you can see why they are always thinking they are close and just need to improve, tweak some things, get healthy, fix some mental mistakes and not need major shake up.

So the next stretch of games will provide some answers. I don't think O line injuries were an excuse this last week, the new unit settled in and played well enough. But there was no run game, and of course they had RBs pulled from the practice squad. It's frustrating, but again they should have won last week despite all the problems. So I want to see if they have fight in them the next few weeks and if they make the necessary improvements.

I think if I give my honest opinion and don't consider fanbase pressure here, I'd give them longer than 6 weeks. I'd probably feel like it could take the entire first half of the season, and I felt that way even before there were piles of injuries. It's kind of hard for me to judge things in shorter span because I'm a very patient person (in general), and I believe in weird solutions. For example?

If I was having that much trouble with people adjusting to me between halves, I'd take advantage of the dual coordinator structure (Mannion/Grizzard) and just come up with a 1st half and 2nd half gameplan every week. Hit the half, throw the first half one in the garbage, and make them guess all over again.

But I don't think this is the kind of thing NFL coaches do in general, so I can't really blame them for not doing that in a copycat league. I do think the point you mentioned about the coaches always thinking they're close affects things though. Sometimes you need outright failure to invoke making major changes, and this era simply hasn't experienced that yet. Most people forget, but in 2005, Andy Reid only won 6 games.

4 minutes ago, Lambo said:

I am reading the ESPN article about Nick ceding control of the offense to Kellen Moore and taking a CEO role. The issue with your post, is that article was Feb 6 2024, the day after Moore was hired, not during the season.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39467569/philadelphia-eagles-nick-sirianni-ceo-type-role

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41568261/philadelphia-eagles-bye-panic Oct of 24. I don't care if it's referencing Feb again.

5 minutes ago, devpool said:

The guy is completely broken, have you watched any game the last year and a half? He's going to be in a wheelchair in 3 years if he keeps playing. If he wants to be an idiot and ruin the rest of his life, so be it. The guy is already trying experimental treatments for a degenerative issue, he's done. Jurgens is in the same boat, his back is F'ed, at least he's wasting a roster spot on another team now

Dickerson is a dead man walking and he knows it. The contract restructure has him salty as well. It's obvious by his tone and facial expressions in these interviews. But really don't care if he's happy cuz he stinks right now. Been saying this for years now, with his bad knees, dude should get in shape and shed some weight instead of drinking beer on the sidelines. With the restructure tho, he got almost $16M this season to sit around. He should be thrilled.

8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

You didn't provide evidence.

Nick said he was taking a step back, giving Moore more control and being more of a CEO role back in (checks notes) July of 2024.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/eagles-nick-sirianni-explains-why-hes-taken-a-step-back-from-the-offense-with-the-arrival-of-oc-kellen-moore/

The Moore offense wasn't working the first 4 weeks. So they switched back to a run heavy offense like they did in 2021, again something Moore never did. After the team asked Sirianni to do it. And you think they got to the run heavy offense by having Nick be less involved?

I just shredding your argument. Come back with something better.

Here it is again

Then after the bye, Kellen was the one explaining the changes to the game plan and why they were using less motion to control the line of scrimmage. Nick himself praised Kellen's playcalling after the Browns game.

And look at what happened after the bye. They went 3 and 0, averaged 18+ rushing yards a game and were still at the top in passing. The offense got better when they adjusted the game plan and let Kellen run it.The O line going to Nick and asking to run the ball more doesn't disprove anything. He's the head coach. Players can give him input on the team's identity. They changed how they wanted to play, but Kellen was still calling the offense.

Mike McCarthy was asked by the DAL media why he made the decision to part ways with Kellen Moore as OC. His answer was that Kellen Moore was too pass-happy. It's gonna take a lot for me to believe Saquon Barkley ran for 2,000+ yards because of Kellen Moore's brilliance. I'm more inclined to believe that was Sirianni's doing.

Am I sure enough to bet my family's life on it? My parents have both passed on .... so .... what the hell

2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41568261/philadelphia-eagles-bye-panic Oct of 24. I don't care if it's referencing Feb again.

You don't care that the article you reference counters your argument.

He ceded offensive control to Moore this offseason and has assumed more of a CEO role, with one of the main priorities being to maintain the culture.

Hope Jalen gets better, but I’m a little excited about seeing the offense with McKee.

Keep Dalton away.

Tanner time!

WTF is the deal with this season…

2 minutes ago, Lambo said:

You don't care that the article you reference counters your argument.

He ceded offensive control to Moore this offseason and has assumed more of a CEO role, with one of the main priorities being to maintain the culture.

As part of a larger one no and it doesn't. Nick was supposed to but he didn't fully until after the BYE.

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

What the actual F

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Hope Jalen gets better, but I’m a little excited about seeing the offense with McKee.

Keep Dalton away.

Wouldn't mind seeing Cole getting a few game reps too

@HazletonEagle now we can see this offense with an actual qb

So they knew he had a clot before the game and let him play but now it's a problem because it moved? What....