8 hours ago, It Hurts said:

Hurts hurts me watching him. Turrible 

Yep, it's the Crimson Tide all over again, I couldn't watch them when he was the starter there.

Part of me wants a change so Smith and Watkins can get the ball more but I also want there to be no excuse when the change happens. I also think a change could ruin our draft pick(yes I'm thinking about that now)

How can we really tell whether the bigger problem here is Hurts or Sirianni?  Or really if it's both of them paired together.  There are so many maddening things going on...

1. The game plan is most evident at the beginning of games - through the first quarter or first half before true adjustments are made.  The O has looked terrible in this regard, as if they either didn't have a plan or the plan was just bad.

2. Hurts is inaccurate, period. He makes a couple really good throws here and there but has far more bad ones. He can't make routine throws that an NFL QB has to be able to make.

3. Hurts leaves the pocket way too soon.  He either can't see the field, can't make reads beyond a simple RPO read, or he just panics too soon.

4. Knowing Hurts' struggles, Sirianni just can't seem to come up with something...anything...that helps Hurts and the situation.  If Hurts has limitations, why aren't we running the ball more and see better designed screens to the RBs?  The offense is too predictable.

5. The offense, in general, just looks like sandlot football.

Sounds like you just answered your own question. 
 

its "both”. 

1 hour ago, Mike030270 said:

Part of me wants a change so Smith and Watkins can get the ball more but I also want there to be no excuse when the change happens. I also think a change could ruin our draft pick(yes I'm thinking about that now)

So you want to screw up the development of receivers so bozo can get better picks to screw up?

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But he did the same against the Bucs as he has in every game... His scheme hasn't adjusted or changed. If Hurts can't perform in the scheme then let that show. Right now all it looks like is that Sirianni is clueless.

Yes but he isn't making the throws that are there . Complain all you want about siri but,  there are guys running open almost every play and they are getting missed 

@Alphagrand you got some all 22 for us.  There was the throw that should have gone to Sanders that went to Reagor on 3rd down during the second possession.  There is also one, had two receivers on the left, both run about a 10 yard mesh route, one came wide open, but Hurts had already dumped off a short pass to the right side.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

@Alphagrand you got some all 22 for us.  There was the throw that should have gone to Sanders that went to Reagor on 3rd down during the second possession.  There is also one, had two receivers on the left, both run about a 10 yard mesh route, one came wide open, but Hurts had already dumped off a short pass to the right side.

Hate to disappoint you but I was working last night and only saw bits and pieces of the game live, much less the All-22.

I did happen to be viewing when Epps had the INT overturned; that was maddening.  The mandate is to go with the call on the field unless there is indisputable evidence.  When the officials don't even follow their own rules it's frustrating.  Not saying the Eagles would have won the game, but an INT near midfield in a 14-7 game sure would have helped. 

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Hate to disappoint you but I was working last night and only saw bits and pieces of the game live, much less the All-22.

I did happen to be viewing when Epps had the INT overturned; that was maddening.  The mandate is to go with the call on the field unless there is indisputable evidence.  When the officials don't even follow their own rules it's frustrating.  Not saying the Eagles would have won the game, but an INT near midfield in a 14-7 game sure would have helped. 

I thought you had access to and posted all 22 stuff last week ??  Do I have the wrong guy ??

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I thought you had access to and posted all 22 stuff last week ??  Do I have the wrong guy ??

Yup.  I know @justrelax was posting some end zone view All-22; not sure who else has it.  

I have the All-23.  I watch the 22 players on the field, then add in my own narrative to fit what I wish to see.

@justrelax you got some all 22 for us.  There was the throw that should have gone to Sanders that went to Reagor on 3rd down during the second possession.  There is also one, had two receivers on the left, both run about a 10 yard mesh route, one came wide open, but Hurts had already dumped off a short pass to the right side.

16 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Yup.  I know @justrelax was posting some end zone view All-22; not sure who else has it.  

I have the All-23.  I watch the 22 players on the field, then add in my own narrative to fit what I wish to see.

 

14 minutes ago, downundermike said:

@justrelax you got some all 22 for us.  There was the throw that should have gone to Sanders that went to Reagor on 3rd down during the second possession.  There is also one, had two receivers on the left, both run about a 10 yard mesh route, one came wide open, but Hurts had already dumped off a short pass to the right side.

Sorry. The All-22 (or 23) is not up yet on NFL Game Pass. 

Sucks.

2 hours ago, hoosierdaddy said:

I haven't read every recent post on this thread, so I'm sorry if I'm simply restating the obvious.

I have zero confidence that Hurts is a long-term solution at QB. Despite being a gamer, he's riddled with flaws and he feels like not much more than a premium version of Taysom Hill.

That being said, I'd like to see how he does with an offensive game plan that at least resembles an NFL game plan. I.e. see what running the ball a bit with our talented RB does for the team.

It'll put the ball in the hands of arguably our best skill position player in Sanders. It'll take some pressure off Hurts. It'll give our o-line a chance to be aggressive in run blocking instead of passive in pass blocking, which should in turn set a stronger tone for the team. And it'll give our defense some much-needed rest.

Hurts is bad, and it appears he's miscast as a franchise QB. But Siri is total amateur hour.

Siriani is not an NFL head coach, but there are basic throws that Hurts cannot make.

32 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Siriani is not an NFL head coach, but there are basic throws that Hurts cannot make.

yep, totally agree on both points

Mikey Miss just read the NFL.com scouting report, Jalen Hurts has shown no improvement in any of these areas.

Weaknesses

• Has issues sustaining rhythm as passer with so many off-schedule throws
• Inconsistent patience allowing routes to develop
• Slow recognition of early throw opportunities
• Leaves slants and crossers behind targets
• Misses checkdowns and opts for harder throws
• Deep arm dip into elongated release
• Forced speedsters at OU and Alabama to slow for deep throws
• Needs to get better at trusting his pocket
• Quick to drop his eyes when pressure mounts
• More likely to void pocket than climb, scan and throw from it

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Mikey Miss just read the NFL.com scouting report, Jalen Hurts has shown no improvement in any of these areas.

 

 

Freaking 2nd year rookies... 

Jalen Hurts sucks. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks 

What happened to @Cochis_Calhoun, did he bail when more and more people confirmed that Jalen Hurts sucks.  Where he at @Swoop

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

What happened to @Cochis_Calhoun, did he bail when more and more people confirmed that Jalen Hurts sucks.  Where he at @Swoop

Hiding? Some people struggle to face the music.

Look, Hurts sucks.  But I’m not going to make people who hitched their wagon to Hurts in error eat crow.  Well…GM maybe, but certainly not fans.  
 

We all wanted him to succeed.  Some of us just knew he wouldn’t.  No one needs to face the music.

 

Hurts was never going to be a Herbert or Watson level player, he doesn’t have the talent for that.

We just need him to be a bridge QB until we can get our franchise guy. 

13 hours ago, EaglesAddict said:

How can we really tell whether the bigger problem here is Hurts or Sirianni?  Or really if it's both of them paired together.  There are so many maddening things going on...

1. The game plan is most evident at the beginning of games - through the first quarter or first half before true adjustments are made.  The O has looked terrible in this regard, as if they either didn't have a plan or the plan was just bad.

2. Hurts is inaccurate, period. He makes a couple really good throws here and there but has far more bad ones. He can't make routine throws that an NFL QB has to be able to make.

3. Hurts leaves the pocket way too soon.  He either can't see the field, can't make reads beyond a simple RPO read, or he just panics too soon.

4. Knowing Hurts' struggles, Sirianni just can't seem to come up with something...anything...that helps Hurts and the situation.  If Hurts has limitations, why aren't we running the ball more and see better designed screens to the RBs?  The offense is too predictable.

5. The offense, in general, just looks like sandlot football.

3. Is really the odd one, he’s never under center  so he’s not taking a 3 or 5 step drop with his back turned to half of the field, there’s no excuse for him to not complete passes over the middle.   He doesn’t have pocket awareness because he had O lines in college that dominated and gave him time in the shotgun, but even the best lines in the NFL get pressured and pushed back.  
 Obviously there’s a reason the last two very good QB’s out of Alabama are Stabler and Namath. 

2.  Wrong order apologizes, he only really had two good throws on Thursday,  one was the  16yd pass to Ertz, of course on the right side of the field. It’ll take a minute to think of his other good one, out of 26, ugh.. 
 

 

I went though every play on the all 22 (international customers get it sooner for some reason) and here are some general thoughts on Hurts.

1. Hurts was bad. Obviously not breaking any new ground here, but a lot of issues. On the miss to Smith on the first drive and the underthrow to Reagor, he ended up looking like he was dancing a jig instead of throwing a pass, with one leg in the air. Just awful. There were several other times his footwork was bad, such as the INT and the pass to Watkins that was out of the back of the end zone. On that play he literally ran into pressure, and then threw up a jump ball off his back foot. Just really awkward. He was also bad footwork wise on the miss to Reagor early on that was such a bad pass I thought it had to be tipped.

2. A few times he missed open guys and threw to the wrong receiver. One play was the one that turned into the deep shot to Gainwell (which was a nice pass, FWIW. Nice footwork and threw a catchable ball to anyone but a 5'6" RB.) He had Ward open early but missed him. There were a few other bad decisions, but nothing too egregious. In all honesty, he rarely has to make a decision between the sceens and the RPOs we run almost every play. Someone mentioned he had Smith open on a third down that he threw to Reagor, but it was clear the play was a short pass to one side of the field, and Reagor was the best option on that side that I saw. The shallow drop meant there was no way he could get to the other side of the field in his progression. 

3. He panicked in the pocket several times. One was in the above play that turned into the deep shot to Gainwell and the other was the Watkins end zone play. There was a few others, although on one play Kelce fell down (his first down run on the first drive) so that was actually well done by him to turn a potential disaster into something positive.

4. Some positives. The second deep ball to Reagor that resulted in the PI was a dime. He set his feet and threw it from our 20 to their 20. He hit Reagor right in the hands (or hand, the other was being held.) There were also nice throws to Smith and Ertz, but obviously few and far between.

5. His legs are special. On one play, Dillard just blew the snap count and never made it out of his stance, but Reagor got past the DE and turned it into a 5 yard gain. The TD runs were exceptional.

6. Playcalling is terrible. It's a real issue. On the first play of the game we ran a read option into a seven man box with five blockers. We also tried to run a screen where all our blockers released to the other side of the field. We also (for the second week in a row) ran a max protect scheme that somehow managed to get both our qb running for his life and no one open, which seems hard to do.

7. One play in particular was the miss to Ertz on the sideline. Hurts had a DT pushed back into his face and he was trying to squeeze the ball into a tight window. If there's one play a QB like Brady can make but he can't, that was it.

8. On the first PI to Reagor, when Hurts lets the ball go, the CB has two steps on him, but when the ball arrives, he had two steps on the corner. That speed showed up on that play. How we don't take advantage of that more is beyond me.

9. On a related note, a shoutout to Watkins and Smith. Is there any doubt we have our outside WRs for the foreseeable future?

10. When we spread out the field late in the game, the running game opened up. Why not more of this? Too many times we let the other team stack the box against us. Our qb is essentially a RB. How about going empty once in a while and making them choose between keeping an extra defender inside or not?

Lastly, I get why people are down on Hurts. He is super frustrating. I counted four throws that were off the charts good. But that's obviously way too few, and there were too many misses due to bad decisions and footwork. At the same time, the playcalling is not doing him any favors. Roll him out more by design rather than due to a tackle missing the snap count. Put him in empty backfield situations. Stop running stupid max protect plays that don't max protect anything other than the other team's end zone.

I don't know if he will ever be good enough to play at an elite level, but I think the people who are saying there is no chance he can be elite are simply not paying attention.    

5 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Look, Hurts sucks.  But I’m not going to make people who hitched their wagon to Hurts in error eat crow.  Well…GM maybe, but certainly not fans.  
 

We all wanted him to succeed.  Some of us just knew he wouldn’t.  No one needs to face the music.

 

That's fine, I will 😂

"Despite his struggles, Hurts enjoyed a season-high 3.36 seconds to throw per pass, nearly half a second better than his 2.89 season average entering play."

NFL.com