29 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

Hurts was always viewed as a developmental QB. Even the positive scouting reports suggested he would need time. He was thrown in last year and although he struggled, the offense at least moved the ball when he was in there.

Look at the jump from one year to the next:

2020 - Hurts - 4 games - 7 turnovers, completion percentage - 52%. Sacked 13 times. PFF rating - 56. QB rating - 78.

2021 - Hurts - 9 games - 6 turnovers - completion percentage - 62% Sacked 15 times. PFF rating 82 (which compares favourably with a lot of "top" QBs) - QB rating 91

Isn't that a big improvement? Now I agree right now he is not consistent enough to be the QB of the future. He still needs to improve. But he isn't as far away as some people think. If he takes another step forward, he may be good enough. His running makes a heck of a difference. Not every QB can evade a free blitzer and pick up the first down on 3rd and long. Hurts can.

I like watching him play and he seems like a really good guy and teammate. He may not make it, but I'm rooting for him.

We have to look at context, though. His completion percentage is better because the vast majority of his passes are short and to the right. His charts show how abysmal he is when he has to throw to the rest of the field. He's taking less sacks, but this is in part because he runs to the right and leaves the pocket immediately. His QB rating is better because he in large, has put up points when the team is getting blown out. These are all legitimate criticisms. 

You need to look at the body of work and the play on the field and not simply use the raw numbers as the only measuring stick. 

As I've said: 

The team is actively taking the ball out of his hands. He has passed the ball 31 times over the past two games. I don't know, but I'd wager that's at or near the bottom of the league in pass attempts for all starters that have played the last two weeks entirely. This isn't because he's been playing well or improving.

Again, context.

54 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Welcome to TATE. The Veruca Salt of patience. 

Ok now this is hilarious 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

15 hours ago, ilikepargo said:

Early in the game yesterday, after Hurts badly missed a wide-open Goedert, the TV guy said something to the effect of, "Hitting wide-open receivers is something that Hurts needs to add into his game."  He sounded sincere when he said it.  It didn't seem as though he was joking at all.  What he appeared to mean was exactly what he said - that Hurts needs to build the ability to hit wide-open receivers into his game.

Think about that.

The golden boy Justin Herbert also missed a wide open receiver yesterday as do all QBs, did the announcer speak on Herbert's miss?

Don't get me wrong, Hurts' accuracy leaves a lot to be desired but what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

17 minutes ago, Swoop said:

We have to look at context, though. His completion percentage is better because the vast majority of his passes are short and to the right. His charts show how abysmal he is when he has to throw to the rest of the field. He's taking less sacks, but this is in part because he runs to the right and leaves the pocket immediately. His QB rating is better because he in large, has put up points when the team is getting blown out. These are all legitimate criticisms. 

You need to look at the body of work and the play on the field and not simply use the raw numbers as the only measuring stick. 

As I've said: 

The team is actively taking the ball out of his hands. He has passed the ball 31 times over the past two games. I don't know, but I'd wager that's at or near the bottom of the league in pass attempts for all starters that have played the last two weeks entirely. This isn't because he's been playing well or improving.

Again, context.

So they are getting him more in his comfort zone and playing to his strengths. But what about the Chargers game. Plenty of his completions were not short and to the right. 

I'm not buying the garbage time numbers either. He has brought the team back in a few games where they had a chance to win the game but the D blew it in the last 5 minutes.

As for them actively taking it out of his hands, they have gone from the extreme of basically having 85% of the Offense through him to going with a heavy running game. If you can run on teams you do. But against the Chargers, those last two scoring drives were about Hurts not the running game. They put it in his hands to bring them back and he did and then the D blew it.

Now I suspect over the next few games they are not going to be able to run the ball as much, but hopefully they still have a balance and we can see what he can do with a balanced game plan.

Don't get me wrong, he has plenty to improve on. Accuracy, reads, composure in the pocket. But he is showing some good things. He needs more time.

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

So they are getting him more in his comfort zone and playing to his strengths. But what about the Chargers game. Plenty of his completions were not short and to the right. 

I'm not buying the garbage time numbers either. He has brought the team back in a few games where they had a chance to win the game but the D blew it in the last 5 minutes.

As for them actively taking it out of his hands, they have gone from the extreme of basically having 85% of the Offense through him to going with a heavy running game. If you can run on teams you do. But against the Chargers, those last two scoring drives were about Hurts not the running game. They put it in his hands to bring them back and he did and then the D blew it.

Now I suspect over the next few games they are not going to be able to run the ball as much, but hopefully they still have a balance and we can see what he can do with a balanced game plan.

Don't get me wrong, he has plenty to improve on. Accuracy, reads, composure in the pocket. But he is showing some good things. He needs more time.

Good for Hurts. He managed to complete 6 passes that weren't to the right in his 13th start. What a gamer.

You aren't buying garbage time because it doesn't fit your narrative. They weren't "in" the games against SF, Tampa, Dallas, etc, regardless of what the final score indicated. Against SF they managed a whopping 3 points until the final drive when the game was all but over. Against Tampa they were down 3 scores and Tampa went to sleep. As soon as they needed to, they turned it back on. Dallas, self explanatory. Even KC while he did well for a while, eventually tacked on garbage yards/points when the game became out of hand.

4 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Good for Hurts. He managed to complete 6 passes that weren't to the right in his 13th start. What a gamer.

You aren't buying garbage time because it doesn't fit your narrative. They weren't "in" the games against SF, Tampa, Dallas, etc, regardless of what the final score indicated. Against SF they managed a whopping 3 points until the final drive when the game was all but over. Against Tampa they were down 3 scores and Tampa went to sleep. As soon as they needed to, they turned it back on. Dallas, self explanatory. Even KC while he did well for a while, eventually tacked on garbage yards/points when the game became out of hand.

And you are focusing on garbage time because it fits your narrative. Rubbish about Tampa. The Eagles rallied. All it would have taken was one mistake or penalty on that final drive and the Eagles would have had the ball back and a chance to win the game. The 49ers - he wasn't at his best, but Siri's playcalling on the goal line and Reagor stepping out of bounds on a perfectly thrown TD didn't help him. Plus the D puts him in a huge hole against any half decent QB. 

The O is putting up yards and points despite a D that lets any decent QB slowly march down the field with ease. 

And my narrative is simple. Let's give him more time and see what he can do. He may well not be good enough. We don't know yet. Your narrative is that you want to bench him for Minshew for very questionable reasons.

 

7 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

And you are focusing on garbage time because it fits your narrative. Rubbish about Tampa. The Eagles rallied. All it would have taken was one mistake or penalty on that final drive and the Eagles would have had the ball back and a chance to win the game. The 49ers - he wasn't at his best, but Siri's playcalling on the goal line and Reagor stepping out of bounds on a perfectly thrown TD didn't help him. Plus the D puts him in a huge hole against any half decent QB. 

The O is putting up yards and points despite a D that lets any decent QB slowly march down the field with ease. 

And my narrative is simple. Let's give him more time and see what he can do. He may well not be good enough. We don't know yet. Your narrative is that you want to bench him for Minshew for very questionable reasons.

 

We do know, but it's fine. He'll get the rest of the season and no improvements will be made. Eventually, everyone will be up to speed.

I'm glad they aren't in the shotgun every play now. I'm still concerned about his accuracy overall in the last several games. It's one thing to miss a throw here and there or to have an off game altogether, but at some point, you want to see the same player show signs of hope (in that same area). My other big concern is the lack of spreading the ball around. Under Doug, last season, I though Hurts did a nice job getting a lot of guys involved as receivers. I expected that to continue into this season and it hasn't. 

34 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I'm glad they aren't in the shotgun every play now. I'm still concerned about his accuracy overall in the last several games. It's one thing to miss a throw here and there or to have an off game altogether, but at some point, you want to see the same player show signs of hope (in that same area). My other big concern is the lack of spreading the ball around. Under Doug, last season, I though Hurts did a nice job getting a lot of guys involved as receivers. I expected that to continue into this season and it hasn't. 

Clearly accuracy is still an issue for Jalen Hurts, but since Ertz left it just seems like the Eagles only have two legit receiving weapons and that’s Smith and Goedert. The rest of these guys don’t stand out much. Maybe Quez could turn into something, but realistically he was drafted after Hightower so maybe it’s not a good idea to assume he’s going to be elite. Reagor has been a disappointment, meanwhile we have people out here expecting these weapons to rival the ones the Cardinals have. They aren’t that good. 

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Clearly accuracy is still an issue for Jalen Hurts, but since Ertz left it just seems like the Eagles only have two legit receiving weapons and that’s Smith and Goedert. The rest of these guys don’t stand out much. Maybe Quez could turn into something, but realistically he was drafted after Hightower so maybe it’s not a good idea to assume he’s going to be elite. Reagor has been a disappointment, meanwhile we have people out here expecting these weapons to rival the ones the Cardinals have. They aren’t that good. 

I'm not convinced. You won't know how good a player is or can become if you don't throw to him. There's plenty of film of Reagor and Watkins open this year. The QB has passes he likes to throw and clearly some he doesn't even attempt. I'm not going to blame these WRs for the poorly designed and executed screen passes that lose 4-6 yards. That's on the coaches and Hurts. How often does this team throw a simple slant? We have all that speed at WR and we don't even use the part of the field that most QBs earn their pay using. 

1 hour ago, Swoop said:

We do know, but it's fine. He'll get the rest of the season and no improvements will be made. Eventually, everyone will be up to speed.

With Hurts, the Eagles are #11 in points scored.

Good enough for me. 

Get the defense from #20 to #11, and see how that effects wins.

Last year the Eagles were #26 in points scored, now #11.   Big improvement, and Hurts doesn't cost 30 Million, only 1 Million.  

Keep that.  Don't care about the noises of dissatisfaction that people are making.  The offense is scoring more points, enough points.   That other QB might throw better, but Hurts runs a lot better, and great running is more important than some think.

35 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I'm not convinced. You won't know how good a player is or can become if you don't throw to him. There's plenty of film of Reagor and Watkins open this year. The QB has passes he likes to throw and clearly some he doesn't even attempt. I'm not going to blame these WRs for the poorly designed and executed screen passes that lose 4-6 yards. That's on the coaches and Hurts. How often does this team throw a simple slant? We have all that speed at WR and we don't even use the part of the field that most QBs earn their pay using. 

I’m not convinced Reagor is going to be a good wide receiver after working with two different quarterbacks and coaching staffs, anymore than I think JJAW will be a solid receiver either under the same conditions. It’s bigger than screens. He runs poor routes. You always blame only the quarterbacks it seems for these receivers not being good. You blamed Wentz for not throwing to JJAW too. Guys with lesser quarterback than Wentz and Hurts showed more than those two have. Oh and by the way the really crappy WR screen was made much worse by your boy Reagor trying to dance, run backwards acting like he’s in college and can just out run people. Same as when he does that stupid stuff on returns. But yeah it’s Hurts and the coaches fault for the dumb moves and decisions he makes when the ball is in his hands. 🙄

10 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’m not convinced Reagor is going to be a good wide receiver after working with two different quarterbacks and coaching staffs, anymore than I think JJAW will be a solid receiver either under the same conditions. It’s bigger than screens. He runs poor routes. You always blame only the quarterbacks it seems for these receivers not being good. You blamed Wentz for not throwing to JJAW too. Guys with lesser quarterback than Wentz and Hurts showed more than those two have. 

 Cue the highlights

41 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

With Hurts, the Eagles are #11 in points scored.

Good enough for me. 

Get the defense from #20 to #11, and see how that effects wins.

Last year the Eagles were #26 in points scored, now #11.   Big improvement, and Hurts doesn't cost 30 Million, only 1 Million.  

Keep that.  Don't care about the noises of dissatisfaction that people are making.  The offense is scoring more points, enough points.   That other QB might throw better, but Hurts runs a lot better, and great running is more important than some think.

Hurts has totaled 16 TDs, eight of which have come in the 4th quarter, the majority of which are in garbage time. Their scoring is misleading.

Oh and by the way, the Eagles are 11th in points scored. That's true. I'm sure you also knew that 13 of the teams behind the Eagles have played in fewer games, right?

23 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

 Cue the highlights

Can’t wait to see the route running no catches. 😂🤣😂

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’m not convinced Reagor is going to be a good wide receiver after working with two different quarterbacks and coaching staffs, anymore than I think JJAW will be a solid receiver either under the same conditions. It’s bigger than screens. He runs poor routes. You always blame only the quarterbacks it seems for these receivers not being good. You blamed Wentz for not throwing to JJAW too. Guys with lesser quarterback than Wentz and Hurts showed more than those two have. Oh and by the way the really crappy WR screen was made much worse by your boy Reagor trying to dance, run backwards acting like he’s in college and can just out run people. Same as when he does that stupid stuff on returns. But yeah it’s Hurts and the coaches fault for the dumb moves and decisions he makes when the ball is in his hands. 🙄

... Waiting for you to process your own thoughts ... Okay ... let me help. Maybe you can tell me which games in the last 3 seasons the QB play was stellar here ...

There's 42 games for you to choose from so far ...

 

Speaking of 42 (since you asked for highlights) ... This ball should never have been thrown to Reagor based on where #42 is:

After Hurts looked the defenders into Reagor, Scott  had 10 yards of room on the right side and was looking for the ball. Reagor made a 2 yard loss into a 6 yard loss, but Hurts made a minimum 15 yard (wide open Scott) gain into that decision. Yes, it falls on the QB there. 

I can't understand how people are happy with a QB who cannot throw the ball unless a team is playing prevent. But hey we probably lead the league in 4th quarter yards and points.

People keep saying "all QBs miss throws", but do they miss by stumbling backwards immediately after the snap under no pressure? Because that's what happened when he missed Smith wide open. Missing wide open guys is the only thing he can do consistently. I desperately wanted Hurts to be good because then we could use this draft to focus on the D, but he just isn't.

3 hours ago, devpool said:

I can't understand how people are happy with a QB who cannot throw the ball unless a team is playing prevent. But hey we probably lead the league in 4th quarter yards and points.

People keep saying "all QBs miss throws", but do they miss by stumbling backwards immediately after the snap under no pressure? Because that's what happened when he missed Smith wide open. Missing wide open guys is the only thing he can do consistently. I desperately wanted Hurts to be good because then we could use this draft to focus on the D, but he just isn't.

The irony is that "garbage time isn't real" and if you look at the numbers and actually watch the games it's pretty darn evident that it is.

I've said it a million times: They are actively taking the ball out of his hands. They don't want him throwing the ball, because he's genuinely terrible at it. The vast majority of times people run to his defense almost always need to include his personality, work ethic, running, etc as a means to defend him.

The irony is that these should all be major red flags, but people don't realize it.

9 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

With Hurts, the Eagles are #11 in points scored.

Good enough for me. 

Get the defense from #20 to #11, and see how that effects wins.

Last year the Eagles were #26 in points scored, now #11.   Big improvement, and Hurts doesn't cost 30 Million, only 1 Million.  

Keep that.  Don't care about the noises of dissatisfaction that people are making.  The offense is scoring more points, enough points.   That other QB might throw better, but Hurts runs a lot better, and great running is more important than some think.

 

8 hours ago, Swoop said:

Hurts has totaled 16 TDs, eight of which have come in the 4th quarter, the majority of which are in garbage time. Their scoring is misleading.

Oh and by the way, the Eagles are 11th in points scored. That's true. I'm sure you also knew that 13 of the teams behind the Eagles have played in fewer games, right?

And I’m sure you also know that points scored is based on points per game so the fact that the Eagles have played an extra game is irrelevant right?

19 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

And I’m sure you also know that points scored is based on points per game so the fact that the Eagles have played an extra game is irrelevant right?

Points scored is based on points scored. 

Based on your logic, say two teams averaged 24 ppg. One played 9 games, the other 8. Logically, the team that played the extra game would score more points, yes?

9 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Points scored is based on points scored. 

Based on your logic, say two teams averaged 24 ppg. One played 9 games, the other 8. Logically, the team that played the extra game would score more points, yes?

It’s based on points per game and the Eagles are 11th in points per game. Look it up. 

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

... Waiting for you to process your own thoughts ... Okay ... let me help. Maybe you can tell me which games in the last 3 seasons the QB play was stellar here ...

There's 42 games for you to choose from so far ...

 

Speaking of 42 (since you asked for highlights) ... This ball should never have been thrown to Reagor based on where #42 is:

After Hurts looked the defenders into Reagor, Scott  had 10 yards of room on the right side and was looking for the ball. Reagor made a 2 yard loss into a 6 yard loss, but Hurts made a minimum 15 yard (wide open Scott) gain into that decision. Yes, it falls on the QB there. 

It's an RPO screen he doesn't have time to go back to the right side. The defender is right in his face. He should of actually made the hand off. 

10 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

It’s based on points per game and the Eagles are 11th in points per game. Look it up. 

He said that the Eagles are 11th in points scored, not points per game.

Points scored are points scored and the Eagles are actually 10th, as of now. Again, ahead of 13 teams who have played fewer games than them.

Yes, they are 11th in PPG, which again can radically (or not) change depending on the additional games played by said 13 teams, but that wasn't what the original argument was.

You're arguing the wrong point, incorrectly.

Tell you what I'm really looking forward to?  When Howie blows his pick wad on Matt Corral in next years draft, Corral turns out not to remind anyone of Joe Montana when playing NFL football and all the Wentz butthurt from this year is transformed into hey lets give Matt a chance while all the Let's give Hurts a fair chance guys are all gloating in the game threads and claiming a TD scored when you're 2 scores down in the the mid third quarter is actually garbage time stat padding and it's time to give <insert backups name> a shot now. 

That'll be a whole bundle of fun.

3 minutes ago, Swoop said:

He said that the Eagles are 11th in points scored, not points per game.

Points scored are points scored and the Eagles are actually 10th, as of now. Again, ahead of 13 teams who have played fewer games than them.

Yes, they are 11th in PPG, which again can radically (or not) change depending on the additional games played by said 13 teams, but that wasn't what the original argument was.

You're arguing the wrong point, incorrectly.

Haha - honestly just admit that you are wrong. 

Offenses are ranked mainly by two criteria. Points and Yards. Both are calculated based on per game, because as you rightly say it would be imbalanced at this stage of the year because of bye weeks if you just take total yards or total points.

@Random Reglar was arguing that the Eagles had improved a lot since last year as they were now 11th in points. You countered this by saying that there were 13 teams behind the Eagles who had played fewer games. But as you say the Eagles are 11th based on points per game which takes that out of the equation. So it is accurate and your point is irrelevant.

Now if you want to be pedantic about how the poster labelled the points category, then that's fine, but in respect of his argument that the Eagles had got better in respect of points scored, he was absolutely right.