Time to put Howie back in the basement? - Discuss Howie Roseman here

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

6 hours ago, DKing said:

Looks like I’m in the minority, I’m not putting this on Howie. I think he assembled a roster capable of much greater things. But the coaches don’t or can’t get these guys to do fundamentals like assignments or tackling on even  remotely professional level, can’t put together a gamaplan to save their lives, can’t call plays etc. - I don’t think Howie is the issue here unless he forced these buffoons on Siri

I certainly wouldn't put it all on Howie.  On offense he assembled a juggernaut that was stifled by incompetent coaching.  But on defense, he let several key players walk and didn't replace them in the draft or free agency and it showed.  It's highly annoying that certain positions are completely neglected in the draft year in and year out, even if they are glaring needs. 

[Swimm]

7 hours ago, DKing said:

Looks like I’m in the minority, I’m not putting this on Howie. I think he assembled a roster capable of much greater things. But the coaches don’t or can’t get these guys to do fundamentals like assignments or tackling on even  remotely professional level, can’t put together a gamaplan to save their lives, can’t call plays etc. - I don’t think Howie is the issue here unless he forced these buffoons on Siri

 

Nah, He deserves alot of blame. He put the defense together this year and let too much talent go. Then he resigned Bradberry (who was already declining)

Then Instead of addressing a huge area  of need in the draft he takes a project pick in the 1st rd with Nolan Smith. Who's done nothing really but ride the bench all year and hasn't shown much so far to leave me optimistic. 

[NOTW]

6 hours ago, TEW said:

Howie literally drafted every single player you named and claim he didn’t draft.

Howie was GM from 2010-2014. Kelce was drafted in 2011, Johnson in 2013, Cox in 2012, and Graham 2010.

I know you want to create this narrative that Howie can’t draft, but stop lying and pretending that all the best players we’ve had over the last decade weren’t drafted by Howie when they absolutely were.

Howie was not in charge of the draft until after Reid left.  Reid was the VP of Personnel or whatever they called him.  Howie did not draft those guys.  Lane Johnson was the obvious choice, anyone could have made that.  Everyone knew they needed an OT and they would take whichever of "the big 3" of them that fell to them at #4. Chip of course wanted DE Dion Jordan, thankfully that didn't happen.

Howie has actually drafted well on offense (line, Smitty, Goedert, Hurts) but on defense the only thing he can draft is D line.  The defense is made up of 2 veteran Andy Reid picks, Jalen Carter who everyone in the nation knew was a great pick and easy one to make, free agents, undrafted free agents and scrubs.  

[TEW]

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

Howie was not in charge of the draft until after Reid left.  Reid was the VP of Personnel or whatever they called him.  Howie did not draft those guys.  Lane Johnson was the obvious choice, anyone could have made that.  Everyone knew they needed an OT and they would take whichever of "the big 3" of them that fell to them at #4. Chip of course wanted DE Dion Jordan, thankfully that didn't happen.

Howie has actually drafted well on offense (line, Smitty, Goedert, Hurts) but on defense the only thing he can draft is D line.  The defense is made up of 2 veteran Andy Reid picks, Jalen Carter who everyone in the nation knew was a great pick and easy one to make, free agents, undrafted free agents and scrubs.  

Howie Roseman was the GM. He led every draft effort as the GM. Reid had final call, but to act like Howie wasn’t instrumental in the scouting process when he was literally the general manager is insane. Bottom line is we never draft Brandon Graham or Fletcher Cox without Howie.

[NOTW]

19 minutes ago, TEW said:

Howie Roseman was the GM. He led every draft effort as the GM. Reid had final call, but to act like Howie wasn’t instrumental in the scouting process when he was literally the general manager is insane. Bottom line is we never draft Brandon Graham or Fletcher Cox without Howie.

That's BS.  Howie was the new Joe Banner as "General Manager" the guy who did contracts and salary cap.  Reid was Executive VP of Personnel.  Cox: DL Coach Washburn loved him and advocated for him, Reid drafted him.  Kelce: OL Coach Mudd loved him and advocated for him, Reid drafted him.  Howie didn't make draft decisions until after Reid left.

Even then, Chip had power at one point, then they brought in Joe Douglas to be over Personnel because Howie was terrible at drafting.  After failures like drafting 3 WRs in the same draft and trading for another and none of them working out yet missing out on Justin Jefferson, he finally started sticking to more no-brainer picks and drafting from schools that won championships or had pro ready programs.  He's been trying to figure out how to draft for 12 years. 

[TEW]

19 minutes ago, NOTW said:

That's BS.  Howie was the new Joe Banner as "General Manager" the guy who did contracts and salary cap.  Reid was Executive VP of Personnel.  Cox: DL Coach Washburn loved him and advocated for him, Reid drafted him.  Kelce: OL Coach Mudd loved him and advocated for him, Reid drafted him.  Howie didn't make draft decisions until after Reid left.

Even then, Chip had power at one point, then they brought in Joe Douglas to be over Personnel because Howie was terrible at drafting.  After failures like drafting 3 WRs in the same draft and trading for another and none of them working out yet missing out on Justin Jefferson, he finally started sticking to more no-brainer picks and drafting from schools that won championships or had pro ready programs.  He's been trying to figure out how to draft for 12 years. 

No, it’s not BS. You’re just wrong. You have verifiable facts wrong, like the fact that Banner was still with the Eagles at the time Howie became GM, and your narrative of Howie being relegated to cap management is just factually wrong.

In reality, Howie was literally in charge of crafting the Eagles big board starting in June 2009, before he was even officially the GM.

I don’t know why people feel the need to just make things up whole cloth when a 2 second google search would prove them wrong, but here we are.

So let’s stop the lies and false narratives, shall we?

Quote

Roseman will be close to Andy Reid because it was the general manager who supervised the compiling of the Eagles' draft board - their field guide through three days and hundreds of prospects - and for practical reasons. When a decision has to be made on the fly, Reid will need his right-hand man right by his side.

…

"It's an evolution from handling some of the most basic chores related to the draft to making the most important decisions in the draft," Banner said. "It's been a 10-year evolution that's been step-by-step."

…

The 34-year-old Roseman has been diligent in crafting the draft board, starting as far back as last June. There could be as many as 1,000 college players on the board at one point. But as the draft nears, it is narrowed down to a couple hundred prospects.

"Howie is in the main seat, as far as leading the preparation of the board for the draft," Banner said.

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/eagles/20100416_Roseman_s_role_shifts_for_Eagles__draft.html

[NOTW]

5 minutes ago, TEW said:

No, it’s not BS. You’re just wrong. You have verifiable facts wrong, like the fact that Banner was still with the Eagles at the time Howie became GM, and your narrative of Howie being relegated to cap management is just factually wrong.

In reality, Howie was literally in charge of crafting the Eagles big board starting in June 2009, before he was even officially the GM.

I don’t know why people feel the need to just make things up whole cloth when a 2 second google search would prove them wrong, but here we are.

So let’s stop the lies and false narratives, shall we?

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/eagles/20100416_Roseman_s_role_shifts_for_Eagles__draft.html

First, I didn't say Banner was there when Howie was GM.  I said Howie was the new Banner.

Second, Howie didn't make final decisions on draft picks yet.  What Lurie described back then was Howie put a "process" in place to compile the info from the scouts and coaches for the draft board.  Handling data and doing the computer work. Not making final say on players. Then in 2012 he started making changes then after that season Reid was fired.

Lurie's own quote, saying Howie wasn't in charge until 2012, the infamous "voluminous notes" quote:

https://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/08/31/rosemans-reflects-on-what-went-wrong-with-watkins/

Quote

"I keep voluminous notes on talent evaluation on not just who we draft, but who is valued in each draft by each person that is in the organization that’s working here,” Lurie said in January. "I came to the conclusion that the person that was providing by far the best talent evaluation in the building was Howie Roseman. I decided to streamline the whole decision-making process for the 2012 draft and offseason and that’s the first draft and offseason I hold Howie completely accountable for. The mistakes that were made in the 2011 draft have little or nothing to do with Howie’s evaluations and I think it was important for me to own up to the mistakes that were made and understand where they were coming from, and it was awfully clear.”

2011 of course was Danny Watkins.  That offseason was also "the dream team" that was an absolute failure.  People have debated over the years who really called the shots.  A lot of people thought Howie went and signed and traded for "the dream team" because Reid couldn't get over the hump and hadn't drafted well especially on defense.

Fletcher Cox is a guy the DL coach pushed for and Reid liked.  If everyone had him as their pick and Howie organized the spreadsheet that doesn't mean he made the final call. You really think Howie had power to veto Andy Reid?  

Quotes from Kelce and Cox saying Reid drafted them:

Quote

 

Kelce, the older brother of Chiefs star tight end Jason Kelce, said he has remained in touch with Reid.

"Andy was an incredible meaningful mentor, coach and person in my life when I first got to the NFL,” he said. "He’s been really meaningful to my brother. ... I consider it an honor to have been drafted by such a legendary coach. I guarantee Brandon and Fletcher feel the same way.”

Said Cox: "He gave me a chance. He drafted me and believed in me. I’m sure I’ll see him before and after the game, so that’s a relationship you’ll never lose.”

 

You look at 2013 and they make the obvious pick in Lane Johnson and then...a bunch of guys Chip Kelly wanted.  Obviously, a GM drafts players that fit what the coach wants.  Ertz was a Pac10 guy, Barkley a West Coast guy from USC and Oregon players.  2014 Howie still technically had control.  Chip wanted Jordan Matthews in the 1st, Howie said we can wait til the 2nd to get him (he was right about that) and Howie drafted Marcus Smith, a bust.  Then they took a bunch of players Chip wanted like more West coast guys from Oregon and Standord.

Howie had 1 year on his own after Chip and before Joe Douglas was brought in.  He made 2 trades to get Wentz.  Took Seumalo and Vaitai which were bread and butter O line picks (and Chip had ignored O line).

Howie's drafts on his own he was taking busts like Andre Dillard, JJAW, Reagor, drafting horribly for the back 7.  He has changed philosophy ever year or so, chasing trends like speed or hyperfocusing on positions like DT.  After he was embarrassed by taking Reagor over Jefferson and the national game broadcasts would roast his drafting in game, all of a sudden there was a change.  Then Howie starts drafting from pro ready schools and programs that won championships.  You get a lot of SEC players like DeVonta Smith and Dickerson from Alabama, Milton Williams from Louisiana Tech, all the Georgia picks.  Now that's his new trend and some criticize that he's fixated on that.  He's re-learning how to draft every couple years and learning from horrible draft mistakes, particularly on defense.  He's sticking to drafting linemen mostly high and not the back 7 on defense.  He relies heavily on free agent band aids and trades to cover up for bad drafting.

Name a defensive player in the back 7 he's drafted that's a great player.

[TEW]

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

First, I didn't say Banner was there when Howie was GM.  I said Howie was the new Banner.

Second, Howie didn't make final decisions on draft picks yet.  What Lurie described back then was Howie put a "process" in place to compile the info from the scouts and coaches for the draft board.  Handling data and doing the computer work. Not making final say on players. Then in 2012 he started making changes then after that season Reid was fired.

Lurie's own quote, saying Howie wasn't in charge until 2012, the infamous "voluminous notes" quote:

https://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/08/31/rosemans-reflects-on-what-went-wrong-with-watkins/

2011 of course was Danny Watkins.  That offseason was also "the dream team" that was an absolute failure.  People have debated over the years who really called the shots.  A lot of people thought Howie went and signed and traded for "the dream team" because Reid couldn't get over the hump and hadn't drafted well especially on defense.

Fletcher Cox is a guy the DL coach pushed for and Reid liked.  If everyone had him as their pick and Howie organized the spreadsheet that doesn't mean he made the final call. You really think Howie had power to veto Andy Reid?  

Quotes from Kelce and Cox saying Reid drafted them:

You look at 2013 and they make the obvious pick in Lane Johnson and then...a bunch of guys Chip Kelly wanted.  Obviously, a GM drafts players that fit what the coach wants.  Ertz was a Pac10 guy, Barkley a West Coast guy from USC and Oregon players.  2014 Howie still technically had control.  Chip wanted Jordan Matthews in the 1st, Howie said we can wait til the 2nd to get him (he was right about that) and Howie drafted Marcus Smith, a bust.  Then they took a bunch of players Chip wanted like more West coast guys from Oregon and Standord.

Howie had 1 year on his own after Chip and before Joe Douglas was brought in.  He made 2 trades to get Wentz.  Took Seumalo and Vaitai which were bread and butter O line picks (and Chip had ignored O line).

Howie's drafts on his own he was taking busts like Andre Dillard, JJAW, Reagor, drafting horribly for the back 7.  He has changed philosophy ever year or so, chasing trends like speed or hyperfocusing on positions like DT.  After he was embarrassed by taking Reagor over Jefferson and the national game broadcasts would roast his drafting in game, all of a sudden there was a change.  Then Howie starts drafting from pro ready schools and programs that won championships.  You get a lot of SEC players like DeVonta Smith and Dickerson from Alabama, Milton Williams from Louisiana Tech, all the Georgia picks.  Now that's his new trend and some criticize that he's fixated on that.  He's re-learning how to draft every couple years and learning from horrible draft mistakes, particularly on defense.  He's sticking to drafting linemen mostly high and not the back 7 on defense.  He relies heavily on free agent band aids and trades to cover up for bad drafting.

Name a defensive player in the back 7 he's drafted that's a great player.

Your own link has Lurie saying that Howie was in charge for 2012 my dude.  So can you admit that Fletcher Cox was Howie’s pick that he was "completely accountable” for, according to the actual owner of the team?

The fact is Howie was setting the draft board since the summer of 2009. He was the GM. Yes, there are of course other voices in the room — coaches, scouts, the owner, etc. — but he is the GM and as the president of the entire organization said, he set the draft board.

Your own link says Howie had the final say in 2012 when Howie drafted Fletcher Cox who has an outside shot at the hall of fame.

Why you need to contort yourself into a false reality to take away credit for great draft picks which were all done with Howie at the forefront is sad.

[NOTW]

18 minutes ago, TEW said:

Your own link has Lurie saying that Howie was in charge for 2012 my dude.  So can you admit that Fletcher Cox was Howie’s pick that he was "completely accountable” for, according to the actual owner of the team?

The fact is Howie was setting the draft board since the summer of 2009. He was the GM. Yes, there are of course other voices in the room — coaches, scouts, the owner, etc. — but he is the GM and as the president of the entire organization said, he set the draft board.

Your own link says Howie had the final say in 2012 when Howie drafted Fletcher Cox who has an outside shot at the hall of fame.

Why you need to contort yourself into a false reality to take away credit for great draft picks which were all done with Howie at the forefront is sad.

Yes, the link says Lurie held Howie accountable starting in 2012. I noted that.  Titles are one thing...you REALLY think they stripped Andy Reid of final say and gave it to Howie?  Cox was pushed for by Washburn, liked by Reid.  If he was top on their draft board and the coaches wanted him...and Howie had "the final say" on drafting him, with the football minds in the room telling the new guy who they want, yeah sure Howie nailed it all by himself.  

If you're saying he had say in 2011, that was one of the worst drafts in decades apart from stealing Kelce.  Danny Watkins, Jaquan Jarrett, etc.  All the bad drafts since, you are ignoring those examples.  Danny Watkins, Marcus Smith, Reagor, Dillard, on and on.  There's absolutely no way that only Howie Roseman gets credit for Cox with Andy Reid there.  There's no way Howie was going to veto or override Andy Reid while he was there.  

 

 

[EagleJoe8]

13 hours ago, TEW said:

Howie Roseman was the GM. He led every draft effort as the GM. Reid had final call, but to act like Howie wasn’t instrumental in the scouting process when he was literally the general manager is insane. Bottom line is we never draft Brandon Graham or Fletcher Cox without Howie.

Good point. It’s well known how much Reid hated linemen. 
 

 

 

[TEW]

47 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Good point. It’s well known how much Reid hated linemen. 
 

 

 

Howie set the draft board. If Howie took him off the draft board he literally would not be known to Reid.

[TEW]

9 hours ago, NOTW said:

Yes, the link says Lurie held Howie accountable starting in 2012. I noted that.  Titles are one thing...you REALLY think they stripped Andy Reid of final say and gave it to Howie?  Cox was pushed for by Washburn, liked by Reid.  If he was top on their draft board and the coaches wanted him...and Howie had "the final say" on drafting him, with the football minds in the room telling the new guy who they want, yeah sure Howie nailed it all by himself.  

If you're saying he had say in 2011, that was one of the worst drafts in decades apart from stealing Kelce.  Danny Watkins, Jaquan Jarrett, etc.  All the bad drafts since, you are ignoring those examples.  Danny Watkins, Marcus Smith, Reagor, Dillard, on and on.  There's absolutely no way that only Howie Roseman gets credit for Cox with Andy Reid there.  There's no way Howie was going to veto or override Andy Reid while he was there.  

 

 

Your own link says you’re wrong and that 2012 was the first draft for which Howie was"completely accountable.” You can’t be completely accountable if you don’t have final say. That’s just basic logic.

And those words came from Lurie. The owner of the damn team. Do you think Lurie was lying and throwing Howie Roseman — the guy he recently promoted — under the bus for Reid in order to take the blame of any potential bad draft picks? And he did this even though he fired Reid the next season?  

Or do you think MAYYYYBE Lurie was telling the truth, Reid was on the hot seat, responsibility was shifted in response to this from Reid to Roseman, and this was reflected by the fact that Reid got fired less than a year later?  

Use your head. Everyone isn’t lying. All the firings and coaching changed weren’t coincidences. Howie was in charge. It’s that simple. He made a lot of good picks that don’t fit the negative narrative. 

[EagleJoe8]

3 minutes ago, TEW said:

Howie set the draft board. If Howie took him off the draft board he literally would not be known to Reid.

Right, because as executive vice president of player personnel for many years, and just enjoying football in general, I’m sure Reid had no idea who any college players were. I wonder if Reid even knew college football existed??

[TEW]

6 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Right, because as executive vice president of player personnel for many years, and just enjoying football in general, I’m sure Reid had no idea who any college players were. I wonder if Reid even knew college football existed??

Literally yes, Reid was dependent on the scouting department.

You can even see how this played out with Mahomes — it was the GM who told Reid about him. Reid spends all year COACHING. He doesn’t have time to scout until the offseason, and at that point is handed the big board by the GM and scouting department.

Welcome to the concept of delegation of work load, where the boss doesn’t do all the work personally.

[Freshmilk]

I'm really looking forward to see how this offseason plays out.  Eagles obviously need back 7 players, but our depth at DE and even DT is poor.  And there is true need at RB, #2 TE, and #3 WR.  Obviously it won't all come from the draft.  It is going to be an active and fun, I hope, few months.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

5 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

I'm really looking forward to see how this offseason plays out.  Eagles obviously need back 7 players, but our depth at DE and even DT is poor.  And there is true need at RB, #2 TE, and #3 WR.  Obviously it won't all come from the draft.  It is going to be an active and fun, I hope, few months.

Look at the contract extensions that are due, I guarantee we will not be spending big in free agency, it'll be moneyball JAG's like this year.

They're already in the period where they need to decide on Devonta's 5th year option and negotiate a long term deal, Dickerson hits free agency after next year too and so do quite a few other pretty important pieces, Smith is not going to be cheap and he will have alternatives if we try and lowball, as will Dickerson. If there's one thing Howie has demonstrated repeatedly it's that he isn't replacing a WR of Smith's caliber and production with a draft pick in the 20's on the first day.

[EagleJoe8]

21 minutes ago, TEW said:

Literally yes, Reid was dependent on the scouting department.

You can even see how this played out with Mahomes — it was the GM who told Reid about him. Reid spends all year COACHING. He doesn’t have time to scout until the offseason, and at that point is handed the big board by the GM and scouting department.

Welcome to the concept of delegation of work load, where the boss doesn’t do all the work personally.

That…changes nothing. Obviously Reid had all that in place here before Howie got the GM in title name. The underlying point is who has/had final say on draft picks. I believe actions speak louder than words, so Lurie claiming Howie had final say, (I didn’t read the article so I’ll take your word that’s what it says) doesn’t convince me. The fact that we even have to go back to 2010 and 2012 to find a time when this team drafted high quality defensive linemen, (before Carter fell to them at 9) is a pretty damning statement. Since he hasn’t taken any before Carter tells me his acumen for identifying that type of talent isn’t what you think it is, and back in 2010 and even 2012, there was a good bit of hand holding behind the scenes…Reid in other words. 
 

Who are the notable linemen since? Barnett? Milton Williams? Josh Sweat? Tiosomething? Jordan Davis? I’m hopeful he turns into something, but overall, this is not great work, and not an indication he can find great talent. And this doesn’t say anything about the terrible job he’s done in the back 7. 

[Freshmilk]

55 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Look at the contract extensions that are due, I guarantee we will not be spending big in free agency, it'll be moneyball JAG's like this year.

They're already in the period where they need to decide on Devonta's 5th year option and negotiate a long term deal, Dickerson hits free agency after next year too and so do quite a few other pretty important pieces, Smith is not going to be cheap and he will have alternatives if we try and lowball, as will Dickerson. If there's one thing Howie has demonstrated repeatedly it's that he isn't replacing a WR of Smith's caliber and production with a draft pick in the 20's on the first day.

Signing Smith and Dickerson are the priorities and I have no doubt they get done.  Wouldn't at all be surprised to see Brown get traded for a back 7 starter and a pick.  Baltimore, Detroit, Minnesota,  Pittsburgh all come to mind as trade partners.  This is not me saying I want it, but would not be surprised at all if it goes down.  Potential is there for surprising moves.

[NOTW]

10 hours ago, TEW said:

Howie set the draft board. If Howie took him off the draft board he literally would not be known to Reid.

[NOTW]

10 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Right, because as executive vice president of player personnel for many years, and just enjoying football in general, I’m sure Reid had no idea who any college players were. I wonder if Reid even knew college football existed??

Come on now.  Reid didn't know anything about scouting or drafting.  He didn't talk to scouts or position coaches or coordinators about what players would be a good fit for his team.  He walked in on draft day and said, ok which players did Howie personally hand select for us to pick, can't wait to find out!  

[Thing3]

While we can all criticize Howie, hindsight is always 20/20. If Howie is such a terrible GM then why are teams always poaching his proteges? While giving coaches more control over draft picks and contracts may sound like a good idea on the surface, it's shortsighted. Coaches are mostly only thinking about the current season. They're not thinking in terms of 3, 4, and 5 year plans. They want that ring now and damn the future if that's what it takes. At least Howie brings some consistency and brings a longer term view to the table. Not to mention Lurie is not going anywhere. If you don't think he would have his thumb on any GM's scale, I have land to sell you. Complain all you want but things could be much worse or at best, the same. As I like to say, oftentimes the devil you know is better then the devil you don't know. So the only real question is how much influence Howie or others should have and that falls squarely on Lurie who, again, is not going anywhere.

[EagleVA]

On 1/17/2024 at 9:56 AM, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

I certainly wouldn't put it all on Howie.  On offense he assembled a juggernaut that was stifled by incompetent coaching.  

No, he doesn't understand the value of a strong running game, had he did they would have won the SB last year and they would be heading back this year. 

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

1 hour ago, EagleVA said:

No, he doesn't understand the value of a strong running game, had he did they would have won the SB last year and they would be heading back this year. 

I'm not sure where to start here.  I'm not a Howie fan or anything, but Nick and BJ are the ones that refused to run the ball all season, not him. 

The Eagles would have won the SB last year had they played on an actual football field, rather than a rigged slip and slide slopfest that completely nullified the strongest part of their team (D-line). 

[EagleVA]

2 hours ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

Nick and BJ are the ones that refused to run the ball all season, not him.

Maybe Nick and BJ were following the game plan designed by the analytics team.

I mean, you have heard about how things work at The Linc right?  Just in case you haven't, Sirianni is a puppet that does what he's told. the orders comes from Lurie, Howie, and the analytics team, coaches either go along or get fired.

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

2 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Maybe Nick and BJ were following the game plan designed by the analytics team.

I mean, you have heard about how things work at The Linc right?  Just in case you haven't, Sirianni is a puppet that does what he's told. the orders comes from Lurie, Howie, and the analytics team, coaches either go along or get fired.

Well I have heard that rumor and there may be some truth to it.  But if that is truly the case, this team is doomed unless Lurie sells the team or has some kind of an epiphany/change of heart.  If an owner hires puppet coaches and gives them orders to follow, and then fires them when HIS orders fail, that's an idiot and a terrible owner.  Akin to the likes of notorious meddling owners like Davis, Jones, Snyder.