Time to put Howie back in the basement? - Discuss Howie Roseman here

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, CaliEagle said:

I'm fine. I'm not near them. But, we are still getting the smoke.  The smoke was incredible state-wide.  Never seen smoke travel so far before.  The smoke is better now, but last week it was crazy. The sun was completely blocked out.

Last week the smoke from the west coast dimmed the sunset all the way over here. I can only imagine what you all are dealing with. 

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

Hurts will be worse. He comes in with red flags. F'ing stupid pick by Howie.

I can’t say that I have a lot of confidence he would be a good player knowing he’s a Howie pick. 

[NOTW]

2 hours ago, nipples said:

Or Hurts wasn’t drafted as a "gimmick qb” but as insurance against Wentz either getting injured again, or just failing to improve (which he is showing now). Nobody may want to acknowledge it, but I 100% believe that Howie and Doug are not sold on Wentz after seeing a lot of his struggles last season, so they took Hurts just in case. I also believe Carson’s leash isn’t nearly as long as some think. I believe if he has a few more duds early in the season, Doug will absolutely turn to Hurts and see what he can do in his offense. 

It's certainly interesting.  So they give him a contract extension at a time when most people said they should wait to see if he can actually play a full season and how he performs in 2019.  Their argument was that he would come cheaper at that time, and be more expensive if he had a great 2019 and other QBs were set to get paid this pas offseason. 

In reading between the lines a little bit the last couple weeks of Doug's interviews, I think he is frustrated with Wentz regressing.  He said it was a "good question" why he's regressed and other comments indicating you just have to keep working...but they traded up to #2 overall and then extended him, were excited based on his 2017 performance and hoped he'd get back there.

Doug won't throw a player under the bus, but he has to be really frustrated.  Last week the O line and run game were there so not excuses.  He has weapons in Ertz, Goedert, Sanders, Jackson and Reagor to throw to.  

[NOTW]

2 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

Hurts will be worse. He comes in with red flags. F'ing stupid pick by Howie.

Don, I don't follow college so I gauge what other fans think about picks who know the team and whose opinions I respect.  I tend to agree with a lot of your posts.  I think they reached for a QB thinking they wanted insurance but if he's just a gimmick or some type of project it was a waste.  

They should have done what most teams do with a young starting QB - sign a veteran backup as that insurance.  That is cheaper and you're not locked into a long term deal so then you have flexibility to make changes after a season or 2 if you need to.

Howie said Sudfeld wants to be a starter...in what league is anyone going to sign him to be a starter?  if they truly believe in him, you give him a pay bump.  He saw how 3 years in a row the backup had to take over for Wentz and had a chance to shine, so that should be good enough for Suds.  he hasn't proven anything to earn a shot at starting for another team so that's just Howie making stuff up.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

I think they reached for a QB thinking they wanted insurance but if he's just a gimmick or some type of project it was a waste.  

That's expensive insurance given 1) they seem completely set on Wentz given that contract and 2) given Hurts comes in with a lot of red flags. 

[NOTW]

55 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

That's expensive insurance given 1) they seem completely set on Wentz given that contract and 2) given Hurts comes in with a lot of red flags. 

Correct.  it's the kind of move an organization makes that doesn't know what they're doing.  Which is why I said you should sign a veteran backup in that situation.  Howie doesn't know what he's doing.  He bought the QB factory thing and he thinks he can get a team to give up draft or players like he got for Kolb and Bradford in the past.

[EagleVA]

4 hours ago, NOTW said:

 

Howie said Sudfeld wants to be a starter...in what league is anyone going to sign him to be a starter? 

I truly believe that Sudfeld is a starter in the NFL, I've always thought he was a much more accurate passer than Wentz, he seems to hit the receivers in stride more often than not.

With Wentz, often it seems like you have to be a member of  Cirque du Soleil with all the acrobatic twisting needed to come down with his passes.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, NOTW said:

Correct.  it's the kind of move an organization makes that doesn't know what they're doing.  Which is why I said you should sign a veteran backup in that situation.  Howie doesn't know what he's doing.  He bought the QB factory thing and he thinks he can get a team to give up draft or players like he got for Kolb and Bradford in the past.

Thing is... he wastes those draft picks anyway so not sure why he's trying to accumulate more. 

[PoconoDon]

12 hours ago, NOTW said:

Don, I don't follow college so I gauge what other fans think about picks who know the team and whose opinions I respect.  I tend to agree with a lot of your posts.  I think they reached for a QB thinking they wanted insurance but if he's just a gimmick or some type of project it was a waste.  

They should have done what most teams do with a young starting QB - sign a veteran backup as that insurance.  That is cheaper and you're not locked into a long term deal so then you have flexibility to make changes after a season or 2 if you need to.

Howie said Sudfeld wants to be a starter...in what league is anyone going to sign him to be a starter?  if they truly believe in him, you give him a pay bump.  He saw how 3 years in a row the backup had to take over for Wentz and had a chance to shine, so that should be good enough for Suds.  he hasn't proven anything to earn a shot at starting for another team so that's just Howie making stuff up.

His issues are:

1. Accuracy is just OK, not precise. Sails touch passes and has some trouble intermediate and deep.

2. Slow through progressions and holds the ball. Doesn't read well when traffic is in his view.

3. Will recklessly throw into coverage.

4. Was benched in Championship game for terrible play.

He has Carson's weaknesses but in greater abundance. His ceiling is 65% of Wentz IMO. To me, it was a stupid pick for a QB in any round but worse because another serious need could've been filled in the 2nd.

[Devaster]

23 hours ago, EagleVA said:

I truly believe that Sudfeld is a starter in the NFL, I've always thought he was a much more accurate passer than Wentz, he seems to hit the receivers in stride more often than not.

With Wentz, often it seems like you have to be a member of  Cirque du Soleil with all the acrobatic twisting needed to come down with his passes.

Sudfeld is just another Mike Glennon.

[Jeep_man]

Howie seems to have hit on Driscol & Herbig. Both played real well against quality opposition on their first starts, I am real excited about Herbig, pancake galore below:

 

 

https://twitter.com/thomasrp93/status/1308047220869136384?s=20

[NOTW]

I'm gonna put this out there:  I wonder if the good picks they make in later rounds are because Howie picks who the scouts and coaches want and they're not the higher profile picks like the first 3 rounds.  In the early rounds, they've got their board but perhaps that's when Howie thinks he wants to shine and make those picks that confuse us.

Thoughts?

[weko]

How often do we have a completion where the WR is wide open?  It seems hardly ever.  I think the scheme, the play/route designs are all flawed.  Of course it would help to have WRs that can run routes.  When you watch other games WRs are wide open so often and it seems hardly ever here.  Why is that?

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I'm gonna put this out there:  I wonder if the good picks they make in later rounds are because Howie picks who the scouts and coaches want and they're not the higher profile picks like the first 3 rounds.  In the early rounds, they've got their board but perhaps that's when Howie thinks he wants to shine and make those picks that confuse us.

Thoughts?

Exactly what good late round picks are you referring to?

[weko]

7 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I'm gonna put this out there:  I wonder if the good picks they make in later rounds are because Howie picks who the scouts and coaches want and they're not the higher profile picks like the first 3 rounds.  In the early rounds, they've got their board but perhaps that's when Howie thinks he wants to shine and make those picks that confuse us.

Thoughts?

One of the few picks I liked in terms of value was Pryor at the end of the 6th round.  4 year starter at TCU.  He bombed at LT in camp and they benched him, but he's a serviceable OG and that's a decent outcome where he was selected.  There were 12 picks issued to us by the league along with comp picks for those drafts.  This 7th rounder DE from Stanford has a chance to be another decent late pick maybe.  That's 1 -2 guys.  My favorite picks were the two 4th rounders this year.  The OT & S.  They both have a chance to make a long term contribution.  Sweat in the 4th if the only other 4th rounder to be any good.  That's it.  Our 4th round slot that same year is going to get abused all season outside where he doesn't belong.  

[NOTW]

15 minutes ago, weko said:

Exactly what good late round picks are you referring to?

Beau Allen, Vitai, Maddox, Pryor, Driscoll, Hightower, Watkins (everyone thought those WRs were good picks where they were taken we'll see if they work out or not).  Then you look at undrafted free agents as well.

Jeep Man was celebrating Howie's picks of Driscol (4th round) and Herbig (UDFA).  I doubt Howie is really choosing UDFA, the scouts and coaches give him a list and he goes and signs them.

[weko]

2 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Beau Allen, Vitai, Maddox, Pryor, Driscoll, Hightower, Watkins (everyone thought those WRs were good picks where they were taken we'll see if they work out or not).  Then you look at undrafted free agents as well.

Jeep Man was celebrating Howie's picks of Driscol (4th round) and Herbig (UDFA).  I doubt Howie is really choosing UDFA, the scouts and coaches give him a list and he goes and signs them.

Beau Allen was drafted in 2014.  That's 7 drafted ago.  If you're including 4th rounders we've been issued 28 picks in those rounds the last 7 drafts, not counting comp picks.  Wasn't Howie in the equipment room then for Beau and Vitai anyway?   Maddox might be a decent slot corner but he is going to abused all season on the outside.  Hightower has promise.  Maybe he'll learn to come back to the football so he won't be responsible for more picks like the last last one that was on him when he just stood there.  He might be decent.  We'll have to see.  I like the two 4th rounders this year.  Better than a back up QB in the 2nd and a developmental LB in the 3rd.  A LB/CB/S or Olineman/route running WR sure would have helped us more.

[NOTW]

3 minutes ago, weko said:

Beau Allen was drafted in 2014.  That's 7 drafted ago.  If you're including 4th rounders we've been issued 28 picks in those rounds the last 7 drafts, not counting comp picks.  Wasn't Howie in the equipment room then for Beau and Vitai anyway?   Maddox might be a decent slot corner but he is going to abused all season on the outside.  Hightower has promise.  Maybe he'll learn to come back to the football so he won't be responsible for more picks like the last last one that was on him when he just stood there.  He might be decent.  We'll have to see.  I like the two 4th rounders this year.  Better than a back up QB in the 2nd and a developmental LB in the 3rd.  A LB/CB/S or Olineman/route running WR sure would have helped us more.

My argument is that Howie has zero business being in charge of draft picks, he's not a talent evaluator and not a good GM when it comes to the draft.  You're right, there have been a lot of mid round picks and they should be doing better.  My point is that when we look at any good draft picks I don't think that's due to Howie doing a good job.  I argue that it's the scouts and coaches that are ranking players and liking them and telling Howie to draft them.  In the early rounds they often fail and when they don't I think it's guys that everyone knows are going to probably be good like Goedert or Sanders.  In the later rounds, I'm guessing Howie isn't as knowledgeable and is kind of going on what his scouts and coaches say is the best pick there.  Plus teams can just get lucky and hit sometimes on picks.

Bottom line: Howie isn't a good drafter and should be - as the topic states - "put back in the basement."

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

3 hours ago, Jeep_man said:

Howie seems to have hit on Driscol & Herbig. Both played real well against quality opposition on their first starts, I am real excited about Herbig, pancake galore below:

 

 

Herbig did decent against the Rams.  They both got abused against Washington Football Team.  Probably a little early to say Howie "hit" on them. 

[Jeep_man]

8 hours ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

Herbig did decent against the Rams.  They both got abused against Washington Football Team.  Probably a little early to say Howie "hit" on them. 

You sure Driscol got abused against Washington ? But yeah a little early to call em HITS, nevertheless still excited about these 2

 

 

 

 

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

2 hours ago, Jeep_man said:

You sure Driscol got abused against Washington ? But yeah a little early to call em HITS, nevertheless still excited about these 2

 

Interesting, I guess he didn't do as bad as it looked.    The line's job as a unit though was dreadful, with 8 sacks and 11 hits and I don't know how many hurries.  With those stats multiple linemen had to have had horrendous games. 

[Jeep_man]

44 minutes ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

Interesting, I guess he didn't do as bad as it looked.    The line's job as a unit though was dreadful, with 8 sacks and 11 hits and I don't know how many hurries.  With those stats multiple linemen had to have had horrendous games. 

Things went downhill when Driscol left with Cramps, till then they were holding Washington's Dline in check and Wentz was getting plenty of time in the pocket.

[EagleVA]

On 9/23/2020 at 4:27 AM, PoconoDon said:

His issues are:

1. Accuracy is just OK, not precise. Sails touch passes and has some trouble intermediate and deep.

2. Slow through progressions and holds the ball. Doesn't read well when traffic is in his view.

3. Will recklessly throw into coverage.

4. Was benched in Championship game for terrible play.

He has Carson's weaknesses but in greater abundance. His ceiling is 65% of Wentz IMO. To me, it was a stupid pick for a QB in any round but worse because another serious need could've been filled in the 2nd.

I didn't like how he played a 'BAMA but he played well for the SOONERS, but no doubt, he isn't a natural at passing but neither is Wentz.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

33 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

I didn't like how he played a 'BAMA but he played well for the SOONERS, but no doubt, he isn't a natural at passing but neither is Wentz.

But perhaps to some extent that's the way the league is going right now. QBs who can make plays in a variety of ways. Create time. Hurts doesn't have to be a natural passer if he's evading pressure and his WRs have more time to get open. 

[EagleVA]

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But perhaps to some extent that's the way the league is going right now. QBs who can make plays in a variety of ways. Create time. Hurts doesn't have to be a natural passer if he's evading pressure and his WRs have more time to get open. 

Bottom line, you want accurate passers, what sense does it make to buy time for the WRs to get open only to be overthrown?

[eagle45]

11 hours ago, Jeep_man said:

You sure Driscol got abused against Washington ? But yeah a little early to call em HITS, nevertheless still excited about these 2

 

 

 

 

Driscoll had at least one play, not a physical failure, but where he completely missed his assigned and blocked no one while the edge rusher blew pass his outside shoulder for an easy QB hit.  He had another play where Young drove him into Wentz.  Overall, physically, he matched up and held up better than expected.  The fact that Baldy glossed over those plays concerns me that Baldy, per usual, just cherry picked some highlights for a completely one-sided analysis.