EMB Blog: 2021 Offseason

[TorontoEagle]

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I would be good with a trade back to take Jaelen Phillips as well.  I mean trading back to 20 and picking up the Bears 1st round pick for 2022 would be a great trade.

I mean if you just ignore the success they have had in the NFL sure that's good analysis.  I mean Marlon Humphrey, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Landon Collins, Eddie Jackson, CJ Mosely, Donta Hightower, Marcel Dareus were the Alabama players drafted in the last 10 years that have made the pro-bowl on just the defensive side of the ball. 

Lol it's not like Alabama attracts the best high school recruits or anything either.....

[ManuManu]

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

If we have the choice of Horn and both 3rds or PS2.  I’ll take Horn and both 3rds.  

I’d take Paye and two 3s over trading up for a corner, and I like the corners a lot more than Paye. 

[austinfan]

26 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Thanks Nostradamus.   Nice of you to present your opinion as fact again.

 

Jefferson was a MUCH more polished WR than Reagor coming out, and still is.  We are hoping that Reagor can develop just a bit of the polish that Jefferson entered the league with.   So, if you want to present this as (once again) Howie is right and everyone else is wrong... go ahead.   But, you are in a very small group with that.  There's you, there's Jeff Lurie and then maybe Howie's mother.  That's about it.

Point was simply that Jefferson wouldn't have put up those Minnesota numbers here, Cousins had a lot of time to throw in a clean pocket, and Minnesota had multiple targets.

In Philly, with QBs under pressure and as the primary target with Ertz out, Jefferson would have received far more defensive attention with less time to get open.

[bpac55]

2 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Maybe it’s just me , but I am not a fan of drafting Bama defensive players , bunch of 5 stars playing together out there , against much lesser competition . Of course they will look good 

That's a good argument.  Some research to do.  Which Alabama defensive players have come in to the NFL and been dominant like they were at Bama?  What's even more crazy is on the list of defensive players in the NFL, Bama is so deep, there are guys who contribute in the NFL who were backups while at Bama.  I highlighted guys who I think have taken their play to the next level.

 

Jonathan Allen Washington Defensive Tackle

Ryan Anderson New York Giants Linebacker

Anthony Averett Baltimore Ravens Cornerback

Tony Brown Cincinnati Bengals Cornerback

Isaiah Buggs Pittsburgh Steelers Defensive End

Landon Collins Washington Safety

Raekwon Davis Miami Dolphins Defensive Tackle

Trevon Diggs Dallas Cowboys Cornerback

Johnny Dwight Houston Texans Defensive Tackle

Rashaan Evans Tennessee Titans Linebacker

Minkah Fitzpatrick Pittsburgh Steelers Safety

Shaun Dion Hamilton Detroit Lions Linebacker

Da'Shawn Hand Detroit Lions Defensive End

Ronnie Harrison Jr. Cleveland Browns Safety

Dont'a Hightower New England Patriots Linebacker

Marlon Humphrey Baltimore Ravens Cornerback

Kareem Jackson Denver Broncos Safety

Eddie Jackson Chicago Bears Safety

Anfernee  Jennings England Patriots Linebacker

Terrell Lewis Los Angeles Rams Linebacker

Jared Mayden San Francisco 49ers Safety

Xavier McKinney New York Giants Safety

Christian Miller Carolina Panthers Linebacker

C.J. Mosley New York Jets Linebacker

Daron Payne Washington Defensive Tackle

Reggie Ragland New York Giants Linebacker

Jarran Reed Kansas City Chiefs Defensive Tackle

A'Shawn Robinson Los Angeles Rams Defensive Tackle

Saivion Smith Dallas Cowboys Cornerback

Deionte Thompson Arizona Cardinals Safety

Dalvin Tomlinson Minnesota Vikings Defensive Tackle

Levi Wallace Buffalo Bills Cornerback

Quinnen Williams New York Jets Defensive Tackle

Mack Wilson Cleveland Browns Linebacker

[Iggles_Phan]

21 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

You have no idea if the Jefferson would have worked here at all yet you present your opinion as fact.

You do not know his personality. You do not know what the status of the locker room was and how he was going to mesh in there.

Jefferson went to Minnesota with a chip on his shoulder because he was passed by the Eagles and player his heart out because of it. Would that chip have been there with the Eagles? He also had one of the best WRs in the league playing along side of him, on a team with a top 5 RB, who made a concerted effort to run the ball which defenses focused on. What would have happened if Jefferson was the guy that everyone looked at because there was no Adam Theilen or Dalvin Cooks to take the pressure off? Where would his mind be when Wentz over threw him the ball or did not look his way because he was throwing to Ertz again? Could he handle the scrutiny that comes with playing football in Philadelphia and their media versus the 'gosh golly' media in Minnesota?

This is not a validation for Howie in any means. It is just an observation of how ludicrous this hatred of him has become. There is so many more factors that go into acquiring football players and assimilating them into a team then just their ability to play. They could be the best at their position, but unless they can meld into team and work cohesively with the rest of the team, then they are worthless.

Incorrect... I presented the Vikings' evaluation of preferring Jefferson to Reagor as fact... I specifically said "they (meaning the Vikings) were right" & "who knows what happens if he is drafted here instead of Reagor".  But, the Vikings were clearly pleased that the Eagles left Jefferson for them.

 

now, you are trying to read into Jefferson's motivation.   

 

The hatred of Howie is ludicrous because of Reagor versus Jefferson?  How about trading up for Pumphrey?  Drafting JJAW?  Going against the board and taking Hurts over Chinn to exercise his demons from the past (missing on Wilson)?    OK... let's ignore the draft.   

Free agent moves?  Big splashy, expensive aging players that contribute very little but lock in the team to them LONG after their impact on the team (if any) is long gone.

Cap management?   Second to worst cap situation in the NFL this year... not much better next year.  Lots of pushing bad contracts into the future to cover for his old mistakes.

Trades?  trade for a player, then pay him top dollar with a new deal?  That's paying twice.  Trading for players that the coaching can't or won't incorporate in to the offense/defense.

 

Simple question:  What has Howie done well in the last 3 seasons?

[bpac55]

11 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Shepherd isn't that good....he averages 63 catches, 700 yards and 4 TDs a year. He's an average WR. Nothing special. Slayton has showed flashes, but even still, he seems to top out at a 50 catch, 750 yard kinda guy. Again, average. Golloday can be a legit number one, but is very injury prone. Ross is a complete non factor, dude can't stay healthy, and it doesn't seem like he has any desire to play football. Engram is another average player. Saquon is elite, but coming off an ACL, is on his 5th year option which means they have to decide whether or not to give him a mega contract (let's hope they do, a la Zeke). They still have Daniel Jones slinging the rock. If they draft Smith or Waddle, cool. That effectively diminishes one of those other options you brought up. They've picked 2nd, 6th, and 4th in the last 3 drafts, and are now picking 10th this year. Much like Washington, you would certainly expect that picking so high every year would yield some good players. The Giants will likely have a better record than Philly this year. So likely will Dallas and Washington. It doesn't mean that those other three teams are anything to emulate at all. 

Both would be the leading WR on the Eagles. 

Saquon will be just fine coming off an ACL, the guy is a freak a la Adrian Peterson.  He's 24.  I'm against high contract RB but there are exceptions.  Barkley is one of them.  By all accounts, he's the anti Zeke.  Great dude, great teammate, workout warrior.  He's not turning in to Zeke.  And for all of those people happy that Dallas locked him up.  It has had no impact on Dallas being able to pay anyone else.  

Never said I wanted to emulate any of these teams.  Just saying it sucks seeing our rivals continue to add fire power and talent (if they do get Smith/Waddle).

[Iggles_Phan]

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Point was simply that Jefferson wouldn't have put up those Minnesota numbers here, Cousins had a lot of time to throw in a clean pocket, and Minnesota had multiple targets.

In Philly, with QBs under pressure and as the primary target with Ertz out, Jefferson would have received far more defensive attention with less time to get open.

Never claimed he would.  But he was clearly the better prospect going into the draft.  He clearly out performed everyone else.   The team was in trouble going into last year due to horrible management leading up to it, but it would feel better with Jefferson on the roster rather than Reagor.   With Reagor, we are hoping a new coach can find ways to take advantage of his athleticism, and teach him the fundamentals (but he's also a guy who has had some questions about concentration, work ethic, etc.).  We don't know that he has the drive to improve.  Jefferson has already answered those questions, going back to his days at LSU.

 

And it would have been nice to actually have a player that forces an opponent to adjust to us and focus on a weapon.  No one on this team qualifies like that right now.   You are focusing on the singluarity of the Reagor move versus Jefferson.  I don't have to defend my position based on a single move, but it stands as a highlight.  It highlights that this organization is alway adding the wrong guy when given the choice... and when you stack all those moves one on top of the other, it all collapses like a stack of cards.  You end up with no young talent, no cap space, no QB (because you alienated him), a new coaching staff... butthe same guy in charge who's job title says, "I'm responsible for all decisions related to the football team".

[austinfan]

17 minutes ago, John_C said:

What they have done since the super bowl -- decimating a championship team, destroying a salary cap, drafting worst in the league, alienating and then losing a franchise QB.... it's never happened before.  They are at the forefront of futility.  Another terrible draft and terrible season won't be easily explained away by owner/GM on his next Zoom call.

Decimating a championship team? Problem was they tried to hold on to a championship team. Extended Jeffrey, added Malik to replace Jerrigan, and so on. So at least blame them for the right mistake, don't invent one that doesn't exist.

Keeping the championship team together is what led to the salary cap machinations. So again, if you didn't want to rebuild, don't complain about the cap.

Drafting was average, draft value was worst in the league due to the Wentz deal, trades for Tate and Darby, and picking in the 20s. Wentz got them to the SB.

Wentz wasn't a franchise QB after he hurt his knee, and last year wasn't even a starting caliber QB. Getting a 3rd and potential 1st and clearing him off the books was making the best of a bad situation. He'll probably have a good run in Indy, but I'd be surprised if he's ever a top 5 QB again, the back end of the top ten is his upside, middle of the pack is the more likely outcome.

They're not going to have a terrible draft, Howie has already added value with the trade down, look for some more moves. In this draft, I'd be looking to stockpile 3rd day picks from teams that want to trade up for what they consider "sure things." If you can add picks cheaply you can take some gambles. They may not take fan favorites, but when the dust settles, look for them to add a lot of talent.

[Iggles_Phan]

19 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

This is not a validation for Howie in any means. It is just an observation of how ludicrous this hatred of him has become. There is so many more factors that go into acquiring football players and assimilating them into a team then just their ability to play. They could be the best at their position, but unless they can meld into team and work cohesively with the rest of the team, then they are worthless.

Yeah, like undermining your franchise QB by drafting his backup in Round 2 right before his new contract kicks in.  

[TorontoEagle]

8 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Both would be the leading WR on the Eagles. 

Saquon will be just fine coming off an ACL, the guy is a freak a la Adrian Peterson.  He's 24.  I'm against high contract RB but there are exceptions.  Barkley is one of them.  By all accounts, he's the anti Zeke.  Great dude, great teammate, workout warrior.  He's not turning in to Zeke.  And for all of those people happy that Dallas locked him up.  It has had no impact on Dallas being able to pay anyone else.  

Never said I wanted to emulate any of these teams.  Just saying it sucks seeing our rivals continue to add fire power and talent (if they do get Smith/Waddle).

Stop comparing them to the Eagles skill players. I think almost all of us agree our skill players aren't good enough, at all. Compared to the rest of the league, Dallas and the Giants are a laughing stock, because they can't build a complete team. How anybody could be envious of the roster construction of either of those teams is beyond me.

Washington has been a joke for a long time, but they do seem to have a very good defense built there. It wouldn't surprise me to see them pull a 2017 Jacksonville type season out, where their defense just takes over and carries them somewhat far. But then they drop off a cliff again when they have to pay all those defensive guys to stick around. 

Regardless, the NFC East teams further ignoring actual team building, and adding FIRE POWER does not concern me in the least, nor should it any fan of the Eagles. 

[ToastJenkins]

34 minutes ago, John_C said:

Losing both 3rd rounders would be tough.  I agree with those that say one of those picks plus maybe a later pick to move up to 9 is about the most they should give up, and would virtually guarantee they get one of the top players in the draft they so desperately need.

I think you have this correct.  I'd be happy with any of those top four.  The latter two or Paye will constitute a disappointment for me, as I think it will indicate they missed out on the big difference makers after trading down from 6.

If slater is your worst case scrnario its a total win

[Desertbirds]

3 hours ago, Peppersmacks said:

Which is why I don't understand people who lose their mind over draft picks they don't like.  We really have zero idea how these kids will turn out. 

Apparently, neither does the Eagles' FO.

[Alphagrand]

3 hours ago, Peppersmacks said:

How's that?  Like do you really think that you watching some highlight videos really qualifies you to offer a conclusive opinion on how prospects should be ranked?  Or is it because of what some amateur on a website says?  I mean I don't really want that to be the pick either but the idea that you have this certainty about who will turn out to be good or bad is just ludicrous.  

You’re kidding, right?  The highlight videos are the BEST you’re going to get out of a prospect; if his highlights aren’t any good, why would you think he’s magically going to step it up 3 notches in the NFL?

9 sacks in 27 games against weak competition.  You’re not drafting him for production, then it has to be for his physical measurable.  Like I said — go draft Jayson Oweh if it’s about that.

It’s a weak DL class.  You shouldn’t need me and countless draft evaluators to tell you that.  If you can’t see it, spend less time chirping at me and more time watching film

[Original Sin]

26 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I would be good with a trade back to take Jaelen Phillips as well.  I mean trading back to 20 and picking up the Bears 1st round pick for 2022 would be a great trade.

I mean if you just ignore the success they have had in the NFL sure that's good analysis.  I mean Marlon Humphrey, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Landon Collins, Eddie Jackson, CJ Mosely, Donta Hightower, Marcel Dareus were the Alabama players drafted in the last 10 years that have made the pro-bowl on just the defensive side of the ball. 

And how many players from Bama were drafted in the last 10 years ? As a whole they just don’t live up to their draft positions , pro bowl is a popularity contest .

[austinfan]

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The hatred of Howie is ludicrous because of Reagor versus Jefferson? 

How about trading up for Pumphrey?  You got to be kidding, 4th rd player doesn't work out - STOP THE PRESSES.

Drafting JJAW?  Everyone has bad days. See if Siri can resurrect his career, did any WR develop under Doug?

Going against the board and taking Hurts over Chinn to exercise his demons from the past (missing on Wilson)? It had nothing to do with Wilson, it had a lot to do with Wentz getting injured every season.  If Hurts is an average starting QB this year, it's a great pick. Because half of the QBs taken in the top ten don't reach that standard.  We'll see.

Free agent moves?  Big splashy, expensive aging players that contribute very little but lock in the team to them LONG after their impact on the team (if any) is long gone. DeSean is the only one. Malik was just bad luck (durable player gets injured). Who else? Hargrave has been a solid DT. Jenkins? Brooks?

Cap management?   Second to worst cap situation in the NFL this year... not much better next year.  Lots of pushing bad contracts into the future to cover for his old mistakes. It was either push money into the future or rebuild. When did you clamor to start the rebuild?

Trades?  trade for a player, then pay him top dollar with a new deal?  That's paying twice.  Trading for players that the coaching can't or won't incorporate in to the offense/defense. You think Howie traded for players without consulting with Doug and Schwartz? it's documented that Schwartz had a lot of influence over personnel decisions. Slay was a mistake that was a result of not starting the rebuild in 2020 (which meant firing Doug before last season).

Simple question:  What has Howie done well in the last 3 seasons? Accumulated a bunch of draft picks for the rebuild. Fired Doug.

 

[LeanMeanGM]

4 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Draft is today.

Source?

[John_C]

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Decimating a championship team? Problem was they tried to hold on to a championship team. Extended Jeffrey, added Malik to replace Jerrigan, and so on. So at least blame them for the right mistake, don't invent one that doesn't exist.

Keeping the championship team together is what led to the salary cap machinations. So again, if you didn't want to rebuild, don't complain about the cap.

Drafting was average, draft value was worst in the league due to the Wentz deal, trades for Tate and Darby, and picking in the 20s. Wentz got them to the SB.

Wentz wasn't a franchise QB after he hurt his knee, and last year wasn't even a starting caliber QB. Getting a 3rd and potential 1st and clearing him off the books was making the best of a bad situation. He'll probably have a good run in Indy, but I'd be surprised if he's ever a top 5 QB again, the back end of the top ten is his upside, middle of the pack is the more likely outcome.

They're not going to have a terrible draft, Howie has already added value with the trade down, look for some more moves. In this draft, I'd be looking to stockpile 3rd day picks from teams that want to trade up for what they consider "sure things." If you can add picks cheaply you can take some gambles. They may not take fan favorites, but when the dust settles, look for them to add a lot of talent.

They did indeed try to retain their best veteran players, but utterly failed to augment the roster by replenishing with young talent.

Drafting was not "average" - it has been the worst in the NFL since 2014.  That's a long time.  32nd in the league.  Not average.

Failure to add talent led to many sub-optimal decisions to retain certain players, trade scarce resources for veteran players or sign other veteran FAs.  We have learned that a big portion of the "root cause" has been the owner and his enabling lackey stepping up their own influence on decisions, and discarding the advice of the experts they pay to enable better decisions.

There is no justification for what they did with the quarterback.  None.  It's over, but any attempt at rationalizing falls on deaf ears.  It will be long studied and discussed in NFL circles as the most ridiculous serious of events ever observed, and will be a cautionary tale told in draft prep for many years to come when some idiot wants to draft a new QB high having just paid one.  Much like the initial DeSean Jackson outright cut (2013?), mid contract and after an amazing pro-bowl season, complete with accompanying (fake) leaked stories of gang ties, had never been done before nor will it ever be done again.  The Eagles are indeed "innovative" at doing really, really stupid things that have not been done before.  

I haven't seen the Eagles add "a lot of talent" in a draft since probably Andy Reid was still here.... so while I always appreciate the balance provided by your undying optimism.... this is not what I expect to happen.

[Desertbirds]

18 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Decimating a championship team? Problem was they tried to hold on to a championship team. Extended Jeffrey, added Malik to replace Jerrigan, and so on. So at least blame them for the right mistake, don't invent one that doesn't exist.

Keeping the championship team together is what led to the salary cap machinations. So again, if you didn't want to rebuild, don't complain about the cap.

Drafting was average, draft value was worst in the league due to the Wentz deal, trades for Tate and Darby, and picking in the 20s. Wentz got them to the SB.

Wentz wasn't a franchise QB after he hurt his knee, and last year wasn't even a starting caliber QB. Getting a 3rd and potential 1st and clearing him off the books was making the best of a bad situation. He'll probably have a good run in Indy, but I'd be surprised if he's ever a top 5 QB again, the back end of the top ten is his upside, middle of the pack is the more likely outcome.

They're not going to have a terrible draft, Howie has already added value with the trade down, look for some more moves. In this draft, I'd be looking to stockpile 3rd day picks from teams that want to trade up for what they consider "sure things." If you can add picks cheaply you can take some gambles. They may not take fan favorites, but when the dust settles, look for them to add a lot of talent.

No one forced them to trade for Tate, Darby, Avery, etc.

[Texas Eagle]

3 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

S should be higher on the list.  We have no one.  

We have McLeod, Harris, Adams, and Wallace. There are bodies there for a rebuilding year. Guess it could go between LB & DE.

[Alphagrand]

3 minutes ago, John_C said:

I haven't seen the Eagles add "a lot of talent" in a draft since probably Andy Reid was still here.... so while I always appreciate the balance provided by your undying optimism.... this is not what I expect to happen

Talent evaluation has been a huge problem under the Doug regime, both in terms of draft and who climbs the depth chart and plays on Sundays.

2nd and 3rd round picks like JJAW, Hurts, and Taylor — who shouldn’t even be on the radar yet when the Eagles pick them.  Drafting Hollins a full round too early, trading up to draft Pumphrey a full two rounds early.  These gaffes simply can’t continue.  Having guys like Gerry as a starting LB and playing virtually 100% of the snaps until he got injured, picking up the 5th year option on Agholor and paying him $9.4M was obscenely stupid.

We will soon find out how much of this shoddy talent evaluation was on Doug and his coaching staff, and how much is Howie and Weidl and the scouts. 

[bpac55]

Just now, eaglesflyers#1 said:

We have McLeod, Harris, Adams, and Wallace. There are bodies there for a rebuilding year. Guess it could go between LB & DE.

Bodies are one thing.  Guys that you can build with are another.  Wallace showed nothing.  McLeod is coming of an ACL and not going to be here after next year.  Adams is a depth/ST player.  Harris is the best of the bunch but he's going on 30.  He isn't a long term answer.

Very big need. 

[LeanMeanGM]

8 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

No one forced them to trade for Tate, Darby, Avery, etc.

Pederson and Shwartz did, duh

[Blazehound]

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Pederson and Shwartz did, duh

It’s all their fault!

[greend]

1 hour ago, pallidrone said:

Why would the Jets give up a 2022 and 2023 first rounder? That is way too much capital for only moving 11 picks. If the move it would be for the 23rd and probably the 34st but they would require a 5th or 6th back as well.

They really,really,really, really wanted he player?

[Peppersmacks]

My prediction is Carolina takes Horn at 8 and then the Eagles trade 12 and 84 for 9 and a 6th to grab Surtain.