Coaches not returning: Manuel, Fipp, Staley, Taylor, Scangarello, Mornhinweg, Flajole

[time2rock]

Dave Zangaro (@DZangaroNBCS) Tweeted:
That meeting between Jeff Lurie and Doug Pederson to determine the future of the Eagles is happening tomorrow in Florida, according to @JClarkNBCS 

https://t.co/JRRmc1N6px

 

[CaliEagle]

20 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Dave Zangaro (@DZangaroNBCS) Tweeted:
That meeting between Jeff Lurie and Doug Pederson to determine the future of the Eagles is happening tomorrow in Florida, according to @JClarkNBCS 

https://t.co/JRRmc1N6px

 

Probably on a golf course.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Agreed, again I don't play into the media BS and I don't care what they tell us in the media. That being said even without not listening to that stuff it still seems ridiculous

It really does. I mean this team has been in decline since the SB. This team has just had a 4 win season and pretty much everything was just plain bad. And yet it seems they are just going to run it back? Oh no maybe they won't. Maybe they'll fire the HC who between GM, QB and HC was probably the least to blame. The QB appears unhappy and won't speak to clarify his position. The players were apparently unhappy with Doug’s decision to tank that Washington game. I mean it's just all a mess. 

[Ray75]

5 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

It really does. I mean this team has been in decline since the SB. This team has just had a 4 win season and pretty much everything was just plain bad. And yet it seems they are just going to run it back? Oh no maybe they won't. Maybe they'll fire the HC who between GM, QB and HC was probably the least to blame. The QB appears unhappy and won't speak to clarify his position. The players were apparently unhappy with Doug’s decision to tank that Washington game. I mean it's just all a mess. 

Lurie should pull the plug entirely and start fresh. New GM, new HC, new coaching staff (hope they keep Duce and Jeff). No half measures!

This is such a messy situation. Can’t just fire one guy in the hope things will turn out right.

If the rumors are true Doug wants to promote Taylor to OC and possibly Burke to DC, nothing will change. It has become pretty obvious Lurie doesn’t agree with Doug’s plan and for good reason. When they hired Doug they wanted a "yes man” for Howie and even after winning a SB, Dougie P still is not allowed to pick his own assistants. Granted; keeping Groh last year or promomting Taylor this year, doesn’t feel like a smart decision and from that perspective I get it that Lurie interfered.

If he leaves Howie in charge of personel decisions (FA and Draft), nothing will change.

If the relationship between Doug and Wentz is indeed fractured beyond repair and Lurie wants to salvage his investment at all cost, keeping DP isn’t the answer.

What a mess!

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Lurie should pull the plug entirely and start fresh. New GM, new HC, new coaching staff (hope they keep Duce and Jeff). No half measures!

I agree with you. This whole thing is a mess. 

Howie, Doug and Carson all should take the greatest share of the blame and Lurie should move on from all 3 of them. To be honest it's disgraceful that as things stand all 3 are back. What exactly does Lurie think is going to chance?

[Ray75]

54 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I agree with you. This whole thing is a mess. 

Howie, Doug and Carson all should take the greatest share of the blame and Lurie should move on from all 3 of them. To be honest it's disgraceful that as things stand all 3 are back. What exactly does Lurie think is going to chance?

Well...we all know Howie’s going to be back and trading Wentz is going to be the last thing Lurie wants to see happening. 34 million in dead money is even for a billionair a tough pill to swallow.

So...here’s what I think happened; last tuesday Doug prestented his plan to salvage Wentz, the offense and basically the entire team to Lurie. Lurie was not pleased because the changes he presented weren’t impactful enough after a disasterous season. He told Doug to think about it and come up with another plan and they planned a new meeting which will take place sometime this week.

Doug probably thinks that a few small changes like promotong Taylor and Burke will be enough to get this team back on track. It also prevents him being forced to give up play calling because Taylor is basically his student. That doesn’t sit well with Lurie because play calling (especially in-game decisions) have been atrocious at times.

Lurie probably wants to force Doug to give up play calling entirely by bringing in a new OC to take over those responsabilities and that doesn’t sit well with Doug who believes after winning a SB he should have more say.

I believe it’d inevitable and their heading for a divorce and Doug will wind up as the next HC of the NY Jets.

The search for a new HC will be tough. Not only will they be looking for a "yes man” who can’t even pick his own staff, they’ll also force Carson on him whether he likes it or not. No up and coming HC will want that. So they’ll wind up with some kind of cast off because the top candidates will be given more powers elsewhere.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

21 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Doug probably thinks that a few small changes like promotong Taylor and Burke will be enough to get this team back on track. It also prevents him being forced to give up play calling because Taylor is basically his student. That doesn’t sit well with Lurie because play calling (especially in-game decisions) have been atrocious at times.

If Doug really thinks that's the answer then he's a complete and utter moron. I mean I just can't believe that Doug would honestly think that's enough?

[Ray75]

10 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

If Doug really thinks that's the answer then he's a complete and utter moron. I mean I just can't believe that Doug would honestly think that's enough?

If the rumors are true that Doug wants to promote Taylor... Enough said! 

I’m not saying I want Doug gone, nor am I saying he should stay. All I’m saying the organisation as it is, is disfunctional. GM and HC should be on the same page.

The HC should be able to form his own staff and tell the GM what kind of players he needs to succeed. The GM orders the head of player personel to find the type of players the HC desires, the scouts find them, they all evaluate those kids together and on draft day they’re all in agreement who should be the pick on their big board. Mutual respect and trust are key here.

I like Doug but if this was his plan all along, I’m very disappointed. He’s as stubborn as Wentz and Howie. No self reflection whatsoever. 

If Lurie wants to salvage Wentz, he should fire both Howie and Doug.

[JayEcho]

45 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

If Lurie wants to salvage Wentz, he should fire both Howie and Doug.

and make sure whoever is the next qb coach is NOT someone carson can consider a friend / buddy and does NOT do things carson's way.  wentz's mechanics are sh!t and he should have little say in what he thinks will help him improve.  apparently that sorta relationship like he had with taylor won't work.  make sure the next coaching staff hires a proper qb coach to fix wentz's issues and actually hold him accountable.  feel like wentz has been relying too much on his god given talent, not working on improving with a guy like taylor around, who's basically a carson "yes-man", and won't actually make him work to improve his mechanics.

when wentz was a rookie, he was very eager to impress the coaches and i believe he DID do everything and anything asked of the staff.  as her grew into a veteran role, got the captain role, and became the franchise quarterback...  he quit working as much as he was THE man.  you "don't question" your franchise qb.  well, with all the other issues this year, wentz being as lax as he is, it exacerbated his flawed mechanics.  he did not have an offensive line to buy him time, his receivers continue to NOT get separation because of poorly designed plays, and his head coach gives up on the run after a quarter and a half during most games.  it's the perfect storm for wentz to look like he did this year. 

[Ray75]

57 minutes ago, JayEcho said:

and make sure whoever is the next qb coach is NOT someone carson can consider a friend / buddy and does NOT do things carson's way.  wentz's mechanics are sh!t and he should have little say in what he thinks will help him improve.  apparently that sorta relationship like he had with taylor won't work.  make sure the next coaching staff hires a proper qb coach to fix wentz's issues and actually hold him accountable.  feel like wentz has been relying too much on his god given talent, not working on improving with a guy like taylor around, who's basically a carson "yes-man", and won't actually make him work to improve his mechanics.

when wentz was a rookie, he was very eager to impress the coaches and i believe he DID do everything and anything asked of the staff.  as her grew into a veteran role, got the captain role, and became the franchise quarterback...  he quit working as much as he was THE man.  you "don't question" your franchise qb.  well, with all the other issues this year, wentz being as lax as he is, it exacerbated his flawed mechanics.  he did not have an offensive line to buy him time, his receivers continue to NOT get separation because of poorly designed plays, and his head coach gives up on the run after a quarter and a half during most games.  it's the perfect storm for wentz to look like he did this year. 

You hit the nail right on the head here and if you look at it from a financial perspective it’s only logical that Lurie wants real change to salvage probably one of his biggest investments in Wentz.

Lurie is not stupid. He’s not gonna eat 34 million for nothing, he sure as hell didn’t like the plan Doug cooked up and I can’t fault him for that. If it were up to Doug, he’d have more power over the roster and staff, promote Taylor to OC to make Wentz happy and keeps being the main play caller. 

That would do nothing for Wentz,  his self reflection and accountability. We need a HC, OC and QB coach who can light a fire under his ass, not guys who will pat him on the back after a horrible decision. Force him to own it!

I’m fully expecting Doug to get fired. Although I really like him as a person, people manager if you will, what he’s trying to do here is simply not sustainable, it’s not what this organisation needs right now if they really want to do everything in their power to salvage Wentz.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, Ray75 said:

The search for a new HC will be tough. Not only will they be looking for a "yes man” who can’t even pick his own staff, they’ll also force Carson on him whether he likes it or not. No up and coming HC will want that. So they’ll wind up with some kind of cast off because the top candidates will be given more powers elsewhere.

The search for the right HC is always tough, but they won't get away with the "yes man" type again and you can bet that Wentz is a desirable QB for the replacement HC.  So much of the failure around here revolves around Doug and his offensive staff.

 

[Ray75]

4 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

The search for the right HC is always tough, but they won't get away with the "yes man" type again and you can bet that Wentz is a desirable QB for the replacement HC.  So much of the failure around here revolves around Doug and his staff.

Or the staff that was forced upon Doug but his own alternative by promoting Taylor leaves a lot to be desired. No wonder Doug is not allowed to put his own staff together if this would be his solution to the problem.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, Ray75 said:

I’m not saying I want Doug gone, nor am I saying he should stay. All I’m saying the organisation as it is, is disfunctional. GM and HC should be on the same page.

Like you I sit on the fence with Doug. I'm not on the train of saying fire Doug but I'm also not going to be too disappointed if he was. I think he's got good traits but there's absolutely issues that need to be addressed. 

[Ray75]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Like you I sit on the fence with Doug. I'm not on the train of saying fire Doug but I'm also not going to be too disappointed if he was. I think he's got good traits but there's absolutely issues that need to be addressed. 

Ask yourself the question; does Doug even want to be here if he has to give up play calling?!

[EagleJoe8]

2 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Ask yourself the question; does Doug even want to be here if he has to give up play calling?!

I really wouldn’t be surprised if having his staff dictated to him is enough to not want to be here. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

If Doug gets fired, there isn't a coach worth having that will see that and what happened to Chip Kelly after one bad year that will come to Philly to hitch their wagon to Carson Wentz, you can all kid yourself that he's an attraction but after this year he isn't, in 2018 and 19 he could beat up on the Giants and RacistNames and be halfway to.500 almost by default, this year he couldn't do that.

I'm not necessarily saying Doug deserves to keep his job, I think the offensive consultants had minimal effect on the offensive scheme this year, it looked the same old plodding Doug offense for the most part,  but dumping coaches every time you have a bad year is a bad look when you're searching for a new coach, and making Wentz' rehabilitation a precondition of getting the job as well after this season would be poisonous.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

4 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Or the staff that was forced upon Doug but his own alternative by promoting Taylor leaves a lot to be desired. No wonder Doug is not allowed to put his own staff together if this would be his solution to the problem.

Doug hasn't demonstrated alot during his tenure with staff.  After the initial staff started to disperse, the wheels started to come off.  Take the Press Taylor RUMOR off of the table and he still has failed miserably with his staff assignments from Groh through the committee mess this year. In the process, they broke the franchise QB and went from SB champion to 4 win garbage.  What has he done that makes anyone think that he is the guy to bring it back?

[Ray75]

1 minute ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

If Doug gets fired, there isn't a coach worth having that will see that and what happened to Chip Kelly after one bad year that will come to Philly to hitch their wagon to Carson Wentz, you can all kid yourself that he's an attraction but after this year he isn't, in 2018 and 19 he could beat up on the Giants and RacistNames and be halfway to.500 almost by default, this year he couldn't do that.

I'm not necessarily saying Doug deserves to keep his job, I think the offensive consultants had minimal effect on the offensive scheme this year, it looked the same old plodding Doug offense for the most part,  but dumping coaches every time you have a bad year is a bad look when you're searching for a new coach, and making Wentz' rehabilitation a precondition of getting the job as well after this season would be poisonous.

And that’s exactly why I think you should blow it all up. New HC who can pick his own staff and if you keep Howie around take some responsabilities away from him in order to get a healthier work relation between coaching staff and front office.

[Ray75]

2 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Doug hasn't demonstrated alot during his tenure with staff.  After the initial staff started to disperse, the wheels started to come off.  Take the Press Taylor RUMOR off of the table and he still has failed miserably with his staff assignments from Groh through the committee mess this year. In the process, they broke the franchise QB and went from SB champion to 4 win garbage.  What has he done that makes anyone think that he is the guy to bring it back?

I believe Lurie thinks the same...

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

I believe Lurie thinks the same...

I think Doug knows it, as well.  He is in over his head, is going to lose play calling, and has Howie choosing JJaw and Hurts over premium talent at areas of need.  This group of relationships has run it course.

And Howie can go, too.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

27 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Ask yourself the question; does Doug even want to be here if he has to give up play calling?!

To be honest no I don't think so. To me Lurie either needs do bring Doug back and give him the authority (rope) to make the changes he feels are necessary or he needs to pull the plug now. 

[time2rock]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

To be honest no I don't think so. To me Lurie either needs do bring Doug back and give him the authority (rope) to make the changes he feels are necessary or he needs to pull the plug now. 

Agreed.  I said the same in another thread.  Let Doug promote Taylor.  Then when the offense continues to stink in 2021 and Wentz continues to regress, it'll make the decision to fire him after the 2021 season that much easier since everything will have been a result of decisions made solely by Doug.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

46 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Agreed.  I said the same in another thread.  Let Doug promote Taylor.  Then when the offense continues to stink in 2021 and Wentz continues to regress, it'll make the decision to fire him after the 2021 season that much easier since everything will have been a result of decisions made solely by Doug.  

I heard Jimmy Kempski talk recently about a concept that Lurie may be using here... And in essence it was that Lurie may be bringing Howie and Doug back because:

a) he has little choice 

b) he's essentially using this next year to show Doug and Howie that this is a mess they've created. In essence he's doing what parents do to their kids when they catch them smoking and get them to smoke the whole pack. 

Now I know that may seem unlikely and it's rather extreme but if Lurie doesn't see much other choice then he may have to take that approach? I mean if he can't get a young GM and HC with fresh ideas to come in then he may have to accept another had year (with the small hope that they can turn things around).

[time2rock]

34 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I heard Jimmy Kempski talk recently about a concept that Lurie may be using here... And in essence it was that Lurie may be bringing Howie and Doug back because:

a) he has little choice 

b) he's essentially using this next year to show Doug and Howie that this is a mess they've created. In essence he's doing what parents do to their kids when they catch them smoking and get them to smoke the whole pack. 

Now I know that may seem unlikely and it's rather extreme but if Lurie doesn't see much other choice then he may have to take that approach? I mean if he can't get a young GM and HC with fresh ideas to come in then he may have to accept another had year (with the small hope that they can turn things around).

I have a gut feeling when all is said and done Lurie runs it back with both Howie and Doug.  He'll give them another chance together to right the ship.  If 2021 is a repeat of 2020, then perhaps we see larger changes (whether that involves both Howie and Doug or just the latter, time will tell).  I'm sure that weasel Howie is in Lurie's ear claiming he is giving Doug good players to work with, but Doug and his staff are failing to develop them properly (the latter part not completely untrue).  

[EagleJoe8]

36 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I have a gut feeling when all is said and done Lurie runs it back with both Howie and Doug.  He'll give them another chance together to right the ship.  If 2021 is a repeat of 2020, then perhaps we see larger changes (whether that involves both Howie and Doug or just the latter, time will tell).  I'm sure that weasel Howie is in Lurie's ear claiming he is giving Doug good players to work with, but Doug and his staff are failing to develop them properly (the latter part not completely untrue).  

It’s definitely some of both.