3 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

 

Show us the studies which demonstrate that Ivermectin as prescribed by a physician is harmful when used in dosages for treatment of Covid.

1 minute ago, Procus said:

Show us the studies which demonstrate that Ivermectin as prescribed by a physician is harmful when used in dosages for treatment of Covid.

"what's the harm?" is a very different stance from "we don't need to vaccinate everybody if Ivermectin is available to treat it"

1 minute ago, Kz! said:

 

Wow, with Alex Berenson banned from twitter you’ve resorted to posting Tim Pool tweets.

Sad!

44 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

It's being referred to as "horse dewormer" because that's the formulation that people can get over the counter and have been self treating with. It's like watching someone eat a tin of Fancy Feast then argue that it's just a meat and veggie medley in gravy. Nah, you ate cat food. 

Same way you can get amoxicillin referred to as Aquarium antibiotics. Fish don't take pills lol

2 minutes ago, Procus said:

Show us the studies which demonstrate that Ivermectin as prescribed by a physician is harmful when used in dosages for treatment of Covid.

Using essential oils and rubbing healing crystals on your face isn't harmful either, but that doesn't mean you should use them to ward off a covid infection.

5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

 

This mainly appears to affect Moderna, not Pfizer which appears to be on schedule. But even so, I'm starting to lose faith in these agency that don't appear to have any sense of urgency.

I understand that science is not some magically fast process, but we have other nations like Israel already well into rolling out boosters. We don't necessarily want to cut corners that shouldn't be cut, but we also don't want perfect to be the enemy of good. 

A balance like everything else about this situation.  Corners need to be cut when necessary and when the odds are in our favor.

Now a completely different angle.  I was speaking win a colleague (fellow American living here in Sweden).  She has decided to bypass the booster for now as she finds it morally irresponsible to take a 3rd shot when others around the world have still not been offered their 1st one.  A good bit to unpack there including the question of long term effects globally in winding this thing down.

 

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

A balance like everything else about this situation.  Corners need to be cut when necessary and when the odds are in our favor.

Now a completely different angle.  I was speaking win a colleague (fellow American living here in Sweden).  She has decided to bypass the booster for now as she finds it morally irresponsible to take a 3rd shot when others around the world have still not been offered their 1st one.  A good bit to unpack there including the question of long term effects globally in winding this thing down.

 

Each country has their own agreement with companies making the vaccines.  So turning down a booster shot with an expiration date doesn’t really help people in other countries.

22 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

 

So approve Pfizer boosters then. This is dumb, we've been far too reactive throughout this whole thing, time to act a bit more proactively.

6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

So approve Pfizer boosters then. This is dumb, we've been far too reactive throughout this whole thing, time to act a bit more proactively.

Yeah I think that's what is being implied. The headlines and even the articles seem sensationalized. Pfizer appears to be moving forward, the "scaling back" comment seems to just mean whatever plans might have been in place around having both would be punted.

So people who got Moderna and won't be able to get the Pfizer because studies in that area aren't even happening afaik let alone near completion, so they'll need to wait. Though it also seems Moderna is the better in terms of antibodies so it may be less critical than getting boosters for Pfizer vaccinated.

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Yeah I think that's what is being implied. The headlines and even the articles seem sensationalized. Pfizer appears to be moving forward, the "scaling back" comment seems to just mean whatever plans might have been in place around having both would be punted.

So people who got Moderna and won't be able to get the Pfizer because studies in that area aren't even happening afaik let alone near completion, so they'll need to wait. Though it also seems Moderna is the better in terms of antibodies so it may be less critical than getting boosters for Pfizer vaccinated.

There's also been a couple longstanding officials recently step down who were fairly high up at the FDA, supposedly related to some inner conflict regarding boosters. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes, but this is not the time for regulators drag their feet as we head into another long winter soon.

4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

There's also been a couple longstanding officials recently step down who were fairly high up at the FDA, supposedly related to some inner conflict regarding boosters. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes, but this is not the time for regulators drag their feet as we head into another long winter soon.

Biden has an opportunity here to do some good and gain some cred if he presses for some reform here. A Democrat leading the charge for regulatory reform within the CDC and FDA? I know, I must be crazy.

53 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Each country has their own agreement with companies making the vaccines.  So turning down a booster shot with an expiration date doesn’t really help people in other countries.

Of course and we discussed that but the point remains at some level and also the supply was certainly an issue at least in the 1st six months.

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

Of course and we discussed that but the point remains at some level and also the supply was certainly an issue at least in the 1st six months.

The problem in the U.S. of course is that people don’t want the shots.  They’re going to end up getting discarded.  Smh…

Yeah we're throwing out doses here left and right, it's a false dichotomy to frame it as a 1st world vs 3rd world decision at this point.  

13 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

The problem in the U.S. of course is that people don’t want the shots.  They’re going to end up getting discarded.  Smh…

That makes it worse at a macro level.

5 hours ago, Dave Moss said:

Has Carson tried the horse dewormer yet?

How odd that somebody would resort to slandering a medication that is for both veterinary and human purposes.  There are many others besides Ivermectin.

When Ivermectin is specially prescribed by a physician as an anti-viral for people who have contracted Covid, has anybody seen a study showing that it is harmful, or otherwise ineffective?  I haven't seen anything on this thread.  I did speak to somebody yesterday who told me he contracted Covid and was really starting to feel like crap and felt much better the very next day after he started taking Ivermectin.

How demented that some people are closed minded about a potential effective, cheap, readily available treatment.  For example, some bozos might think it's funny that somebody would want to take an anti-viral medication when they have a virus.

12 minutes ago, Procus said:

When Ivermectin is specially prescribed by a physician as an anti-viral for people who have contracted Covid, has anybody seen a study showing that it is harmful, or otherwise ineffective?

Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19

Quote

Here’s What You Need to Know about Ivermectin

• The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for use in preventing or treating COVID-19 in humans or animals. Ivermectin is approved for human use to treat infections caused by some parasitic worms and head lice and skin conditions like rosacea.
• Currently available data do not show ivermectin is effective against COVID-19. Clinical trials assessing ivermectin tablets for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in people are ongoing.
• Taking large doses of ivermectin is dangerous.
• If your health care provider writes you an ivermectin prescription, fill it through a legitimate source such as a pharmacy, and take it exactly as prescribed. 
• Never use medications intended for animals on yourself or other people. Animal ivermectin products are very different from those approved for humans. Use of animal ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans is dangerous. 

 

3 hours ago, Kz! said:

Virtually every news article about the subject and every ishlib on every single social media outlet is now exclusively referring to it as a horse de-wormer. Just check the last 20 pages or so of this thread. It's incredibly stupid and, honestly, it's why no one trusts media outlets anymore. When they'll lie about something so easy to look up just to dunk on a podcast host, you know they've lost credibility.  

They are saying not to use the over the counter one that is designed specifically for animals, which is a horse de-wormer. If Joe Rogan, whose only way of making money is to make sure that his name is in the news and people will listen to his broadcast, is going to the vet to get a drug to treat a virus, then he is a moron. I would probably bet that this guy never took that and is only saying it to rile up his fan base to make sure they continue to listen to him.

I swear you only hear what you want to hear.

3 hours ago, Kz! said:

Virtually every news article about the subject and every ishlib on every single social media outlet is now exclusively referring to it as a horse de-wormer. Just check the last 20 pages or so of this thread. 

I did. It's you and Procus claiming other people are calling it horse medicine.

4 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

They are saying not to use the over the counter one that is designed specifically for animals, which is a horse de-wormer. If Joe Rogan, whose only way of making money is to make sure that his name is in the news and people will listen to his broadcast, is going to the vet to get a drug to treat a virus, then he is a moron. I would probably bet that this guy never took that and is only saying it to rile up his fan base to make sure they continue to listen to him.

I swear you only hear what you want to hear.

You're probably right.  There are physicians I know who tout its use.  I also know somebody who was very ill with Covid at his wits end who was given Ivermectin and was fine a day or so later.

I wouldn't feel safe buying it OTC at some pet store.  But if I respected a physician, was sick with Covid and was given a script of Ivermectin for its anti-viral properties, damn right I'd take it.  I suspect many of those calling it a horse de-wormer would also do so under these set of circumstances if they felt like they were going to die.

14 minutes ago, Procus said:

You're probably right.  There are physicians I know who tout its use.  I also know somebody who was very ill with Covid at his wits end who was given Ivermectin and was fine a day or so later.

I wouldn't feel safe buying it OTC at some pet store.  But if I respected a physician, was sick with Covid and was given a script of Ivermectin for its anti-viral properties, damn right I'd take it.  I suspect many of those calling it a horse de-wormer would also do so under these set of circumstances if they felt like they were going to die.

If a doctor prescribed it to me and said it would work, I would take it as well. That is because I trust what my doctor says, a person who has dedicated his/her life to the medical field and helping people out.

The issue is and has been that people are going to their local vet or pet supply store, buying it up and taking it, which is stupid and dangerous. The problem is that you have too many people that think they know better then a medical doctor because some idiot on a pod cast or a random internet guy swears by it. They look at the outlier information instead of looking at the mean information and think that they know better then anyone else. 

I still do not get why people will not just take the vaccine. I get not wanting to take it when it first came out, but now it is just getting silly. People want things to go back to where it was before COVID, but refuse to take the steps necessary to get there.

You can't put toothpaste back into the container.

44 minutes ago, Procus said:

You're probably right.  There are physicians I know who tout its use.  I also know somebody who was very ill with Covid at his wits end who was given Ivermectin and was fine a day or so later.

I wouldn't feel safe buying it OTC at some pet store.  But if I respected a physician, was sick with Covid and was given a script of Ivermectin for its anti-viral properties, damn right I'd take it.  I suspect many of those calling it a horse de-wormer would also do so under these set of circumstances if they felt like they were going to die.

We're going to have to start keeping a running list of people you "know". So far we have:

-someone who recovered right after receiving ivermectin

-3 people who received MAbs

- 2 highly educated medical directors who claim COVID is overblown

-someone who died after receiving the vaccine

You seem really good at meeting people who are statistical minorities. Or you're FOS. 

3 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

So approve Pfizer boosters then. This is dumb, we've been far too reactive throughout this whole thing, time to act a bit more proactively.

I thought they did approve Pfizer boosters?  My mom got hers today but she’s immunocompromised.  So maybe just for some at risk?

also I’m actually fine if they want to pump the brakes on the boosters.  I think it makes sense to have more data to say whether it’s truly needed.  There’s no reason to rush the recommendation with boosters IMO.  The pressure should be on getting more people at least one if not two, then worry about boosters.