21 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

It's not,what is relevant is how this year projects out the next 4 years,because we have to make a QB decision

I see it as we always should be evaluating everybody. Made the decision to hand out our biggest contract ever. Decided to trade that guy the very next season…arguably before that even. That’s NFL life.

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I see it as we always should be evaluating everybody. Made the decision to hand out our biggest contract ever. Decided to trade that guy the very next season…arguably before that even. That’s NFL life.

QB is your biggest expenditure if he is worth keeping. Back to Wentz again? He is irrelevant. maybe Hurts is also,we will find out right now

13 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/nfl-rumors-five-free-agent-cornerbacks-eagles-sign-xavier-rhodes-james-bradberry-kyle-fuller/  

I hope we can snag one of them 

11 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right...so I'm not worried about Hurts winning games ...vs bad teams or by throwing the ball 20 times.   I need to see him score a lot of points because that is what it will take for us to beat good teams.   And he may have to play from behind and catch up...not just get garbage stats.   

Take away the QB...  look at our offense,  

Start with OL....how many teams have as good of an OL.   What..5 or 8 maybe?

Then look at those teams... look at WR, how many of those teams with the OLs that you would say compare to ours, have Brown and Smith?

Then look at those remaining teams that had BOTH the OLs and the WR tandem and how many have a TE as good as Goedert?

We have adequate RBs, some say Sanders is elite. 

So yes, you put a good NFL QB with this offense,  he should excel.   It's a top offensive roster compared to the rest of the league...when taking out the QB.  Absolutely without question.

You didn’t mention coach anywhere in there. Do believe that’s a huge factor. Think there are plenty of offensive minds that could achieve more than him with the same players. Don’t want to be all negative here. Think Siri book isn’t written yet. Inexperienced. He has shown plenty of positives. But wouldn’t rank him top ten offensive mind. Definitely not at this moment. Don’t think I’m going as far as you on this offensive personnel either. Don’t think we are the top offense. Think Hurts reeling in AJ was key. We self scouted….partly from Bowles exposing us. Need to beat press. He solves that key issue and weakness. Smitty I’m a fan of. Think he will learn to adjust and improve and solve that issue anyway. NFL is tough. The kid is as polished as any room coming in. Still got exposed a bit on his weakness. Everybody has to deal with that. Some it ends their career. Good players improve on their bad areas. Don’t have to make it a strength. Just do enough so it isn’t crippling your effectiveness.

3 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I will disagree a bit here. I have a certain amount(4k yards) that needs to be hit. Although we can win games with 2 yard dink passes at the GL,that does little to tell me what the future Hurts looks like. There is no more time for experiments. Either he is our QB going forward or he isn't, so I respectfully disagree on this point. You can view my personal criteria.I'm sure the FO has their own. he needs to check off all those boxes before I open the checkbook

So 3900 yards with a good eye test isn't good enough... that extra 100 yards is needed?   Idk,just give me consistency seeing the field and making big boy throws and that's good.  The rest of the offense will excel if they get that from their QB.

11 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

QB is your biggest expenditure if he is worth keeping. Back to Wentz again? He is irrelevant. maybe Hurts is also,we will find out right now

I hope we can snag one of them 

Wentz is only relevant because he’s the rival. Play him twice. I’d say pretty key games in our season actually. No Names we’re last year also.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You didn’t mention coach anywhere in there. Do believe that’s a huge factor. Think there are plenty of offensive minds that could achieve more than him with the same players. Don’t want to be all negative here. Think Siri book isn’t written yet. Inexperienced. He has shown plenty of positives. But wouldn’t rank him top ten offensive mind. Definitely not at this moment. Don’t think I’m going as far as you on this offensive personnel either. Don’t think we are the top offense. Think Hurts reeling in AJ was key. We self scouted….partly from Bowles exposing us. Need to beat press. He solves that key issue and weakness. Smitty I’m a fan of. Think he will learn to adjust and improve and solve that issue anyway. NFL is tough. The kid is as polished as any room coming in. Still got exposed a bit on his weakness. Everybody has to deal with that. Some it ends their career. Good players improve on their bad areas. Don’t have to make it a strength. Just do enough so it isn’t crippling your effectiveness.

So let me ask you.  Did Hurts take a 4 win team nobody thought would make the playoffs and win 9 games.... read off all those stats you like.    Hurts gets credit for that right?

But the coach gets nothing? 

After 2016 were you feeling the Eagles had top offensive minds running the show?  Or did all of a sudden things change when the players were there year 2?

My sense with you.....anything good = Hurts....anything bad = coach.   

You are entitled to that... but Lurie and Howie aren't going to see it that way. 

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

No you don’t. He’s under contract for two more seasons. He’s only played one. There is always the tag after that. As ARod would say…..R-E-L-A-X

Let it play out. See what happens. Don’t freak out and do knee jerk stuff

Yeah..... we could get Hurts at a discount if we sign him after this year.... but let's relax and wait a year.

Cousins and Dak... that's worked out well for those teams cap wise???    Dallas just gobbling up those free agents and never losing anyone ..because they did it smart with Dak...lol.

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I will make sure you read that I stated Hurts needs to improve his passing and reading defenses.

Yes....just seems like for you...a slight improvement is enough.... it's not.  

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

If he passes for four hundred yards in a game but we settle for field goals because he isn’t good in the Redzone, is that a good QB? Or how about playing a top pass defense we run on them. Is it ok not to force passing for your stat agenda? How about if he’s a good passer but fails on the final drive by choking…is that your guy? Passes for 350 yards but keeps holding the ball and taking sacks? What if AJ and Smitty get injured, stat goals stay the same for the QB?

Whoa.... so you are saying AJ and Smith getting injured can effect the offense?

Hmmm....so why does playing an opponent with 3rd string QBs not matter to you when it comes to the Eagles wins over the last 3 years ... oops I'm sorry... for you it only doesn't matter last year.

15 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

QB is your biggest expenditure if he is worth keeping. Back to Wentz again? He is irrelevant. maybe Hurts is also,we will find out right now

I hope we can snag one of them 

CB wise: I don’t want to sign those guys. Didn’t click on the link just read the names in the link. I want our young guys that have been mostly dead weight on the roster to get vetted. Like you talk about Hurts. I want these guys tested vs first and second team real players and competition. Even into the PS. One way or another figure out what we have. I think one needs to earn a starting role. Can’t be much worse than Nelson…but with upside. Then at least one more needs to contribute…on the defense. My early thoughts are Gowan Island starting outside with McPherson coming into different packages and backing up when needed. Josiah Scott also I feel can be a decent backup option in the slot. We rostered so many DBs that didn’t really play on defense. Added some good upside options after the draft. But you have to get them real tests. Third and fourth string reps aren’t the same. Bunch of guys. If nobody pans out then we have bigger issues….coaching GM personnel decision issues. Think that’s been the plan all along. Went the numbers with young potential guys knowing we wouldn’t target high in the draft or probably land a huge FA. Can one of them do S work? Feel like that is a part of the job for Gannon and Rosie…..include Dennard. All these guys in there second year in the system. A couple gotta pay off. I think Craig James the stud ST was a better option than Nelson. I’m leaning towards picking up a S right before the season. All those S in the draft. Some vet will be a cap casualty. Trade or pickup after release. Feel we need a S. Like Epps. He’s a legit starter. Proved it and earned it the hard way in my mind. Not a Pro Bowl level player though.

14 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So 3900 yards with a good eye test isn't good enough... that extra 100 yards is needed?   Idk,just give me consistency seeing the field and making big boy throws and that's good.  The rest of the offense will excel if they get that from their QB.

This we can agree. Stats in a vacuum just isn’t the story for me. Gotta consider all the factors. He has to read the field and defenses better and keep improving his accuracy. Receiving room was a weakness. It’s much improved with more experience and AJ. Thought it was a hinderance and excuse to limit our passing game last year. Don’t think Hurts can earn that big payday next season though. It would be simpler if he was too guy that you gotta sign to the top contract. Don’t see him as a fifty mil a year player. So negotiating this will be tough. Not just Rosie and Lurie here….it’s Hurts agent and NFLPA involved also. I think Hurts will continue to improve. But don’t see him as MVP level player. Honestly it also comes down to what gets become available. Who can we lure here. Rosie does pretty good of looking into everything and everybody all the time. Watson and Wilson they would have made the move. Murray is the obvious rumor guy next season. I believe in Hurts more. Think he’ll prove to be better. Brady and ARod are other options. Just can’t get behind a one year fix idea of an old player. Hard to actually come to that decision being those are arguably the two best players in the game right now. They keep going strong and proving me wrong. If Mahomes had a falling out….yeah make the move. Herbert and Allen. Lamar might actually be an option. I’d probably lean towards him. He’s a better player but you have to consider the compensation also.

48 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Welp we will always be paying someone who's not playing,all teams do,so that is a weak argument.I will mention Wentz only because we failed to give him what we have given Hurts.it's not even close. That being said,this is now all on Hurts. We've given him probably the best offense in recent times. Adding Strong who could arguably become a #1 QB(still hard to believe we got him for nothing) means hurts has to produce now. Not the RB's, not the O line. HURTS. The PASSING Hurts. I'm not saying to avoid running the ball. We are good at it,but now we need to couple that with a passing attack teams can't stop

Hurts does have to produce passing. I agree with that. But things on paper don’t always go that way during the season. Injuries would be a factor. Weather is a factor. Yes, the opponent is a factor. I think it’s great that Hurts can check so many boxes of a job that has so many qualifications….that we seem to have narrowed it down to just improving on one or I’d say two things.

42 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So 3900 yards with a good eye test isn't good enough... that extra 100 yards is needed?   Idk,just give me consistency seeing the field and making big boy throws and that's good.  The rest of the offense will excel if they get that from their QB.

No reason 4k can't be achieved with 17 games with Brown,Smith and Goedert,so to answer your question 3900 is short,but maybe he tosses 32 TD's instead of the 30 I ask for

27 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So let me ask you.  Did Hurts take a 4 win team nobody thought would make the playoffs and win 9 games.... read off all those stats you like.    Hurts gets credit for that right?

But the coach gets nothing? 

After 2016 were you feeling the Eagles had top offensive minds running the show?  Or did all of a sudden things change when the players were there year 2?

My sense with you.....anything good = Hurts....anything bad = coach.   

You are entitled to that... but Lurie and Howie aren't going to see it that way. 

Yeah I did think we had great offensive minds in 2016. I was one of the few I think. Three former QBs , Stout and Staley. Also thought we had the right guys to make the decision to trade up and get our franchise guy. Was my offseason plan immediately after 2016 season. Took a bunch to get all the way up there. Hard to say whether they and I were right on that one. We won the SB finally. So that’s the ultimate trump card. Totally agree on players also mattering immensely though after saying all that about the coaches. Think you need both. Are limited to what you have in both those key areas.

28 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

CB wise: I don’t want to sign those guys. Didn’t click on the link just read the names in the link. I want our young guys that have been mostly dead weight on the roster to get vetted. Like you talk about Hurts. I want these guys tested vs first and second team real players and competition. Even into the PS. One way or another figure out what we have. I think one needs to earn a starting role. Can’t be much worse than Nelson…but with upside. Then at least one more needs to contribute…on the defense. My early thoughts are Gowan Island starting outside with McPherson coming into different packages and backing up when needed. Josiah Scott also I feel can be a decent backup option in the slot. We rostered so many DBs that didn’t really play on defense. Added some good upside options after the draft. But you have to get them real tests. Third and fourth string reps aren’t the same. Bunch of guys. If nobody pans out then we have bigger issues….coaching GM personnel decision issues. Think that’s been the plan all along. Went the numbers with young potential guys knowing we wouldn’t target high in the draft or probably land a huge FA. Can one of them do S work? Feel like that is a part of the job for Gannon and Rosie…..include Dennard. All these guys in there second year in the system. A couple gotta pay off. I think Craig James the stud ST was a better option than Nelson. I’m leaning towards picking up a S right before the season. All those S in the draft. Some vet will be a cap casualty. Trade or pickup after release. Feel we need a S. Like Epps. He’s a legit starter. Proved it and earned it the hard way in my mind. Not a Pro Bowl level player though.

Right, we're going to get pro bowlers at both CB and S(3 of them) using UDFA's. If you can pull this off my hats off to you.But yeah let's vet them and keep waiting to see if they ever pan out. No need to select any high draft ones with talent. I enjoy having dead weight on the roster

27 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

If nobody pans out then we have bigger issues….coaching GM personnel decision issues

They are COACHES not MAGICIANS

That’s decently a fair assessment from you No Mas though on the Hurts and coach good bad stuff. Not the way i feel. Just feel I’m the only one questioning coaching here. Seems everybody puts everything on Hurts. I do acknowledge hurts making mistakes and needing to improve. And he’s just flat out limited on he doesn’t have a rocket arm and he isn’t the pro type tall QB to see over the Oline. He can’t fix his height. He can help his arm strength on certain throws with better mechanics…and maybe quicker reads. But it is what it is overall. Which I think is good enough. But yeah….I keep coming back to that Siri and our QB coach aren’t experienced at their jobs. So there is, what I would expect, a learning curve. Many thought Rosie was forcing us to pass pass pass and go against just trying to win to evaluate Hurts before the deadline…most considered Watson trade as the reason. Can’t say that’s out of the question. Rosie and Lurie meddle too much. Think the football guys need to be able to do their jobs. But part of the HC job is dealing with everything. He has to stand up and getting footing with those two to do his job. Why I agreed with Pedey. Lurie and Rosie screwed things up. Draft, FA, spending contracts….but focing the firing of Groh was a huge mistake. Forcing all these Senior Advisors for the offense muddled things. The results were catastrophic. I blame Rosie and Lurie more than anybody(yes including Wentz).

6 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Right, we're going to get pro bowlers at both CB and S(3 of them) using UDFA's. If you can pull this off my hats off to you.But yeah let's vet them and keep waiting to see if they ever pan out. No need to select any high draft ones with talent. I enjoy having dead weight on the roster

Wait a minute. We do have AN ALL Pro CB in Slay. Do have a top slot guy in Maddox. We don’t need a third pro bowl Corner. It would nice, no doubt. We just need a guy that’s legit and not a complete liability. With them being young the experience should come with growth towards upside. McPherson was drafted in the fourth, I think. Traded for Gowan. But I’m not giving jobs based on draft position. An undrafted guy shows up…He gets the job. Only way to find out what these guys can do is give them a shot however. And this is all before the season here. TC and Preseason games. That’s where we test them. Everybody turns out to be a bum….then we need to make a trade …pickup a cap casualty old vet. But if you pickup the old vet now…you don’t get to see what all these young guys can do. So I’m in favor of give them a chance…first. Then decide. I mean we wasted all these roster spots keeping them last season and coming in this year. Not like we’re talking just one guy even. Not everybody that plays has to be Slay. Want as many studs as possible…don’t get me wrong. But need plenty of others that are legit starters. Can do their job and not be a liability. I can work some guys like Edwards. But agree I need as many playmakers as possible around him. But only have so many draft picks. Only so much money for vets. Plus guys have to choose to go here. Great parity in this league. We need the Gainwell’s and Epps to contribute. Mostly need them just not to be a huge liability.

14 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

They are COACHES not MAGICIANS

They chose and rostered all of them. Several other guys come through and snipped. So yeah….I demand a couple young DBs show up. It is on the coaches. Might just find a Diamond in the Rough. These guys have talents. Gotta get it out of them and can’t ask them to accel in areas they are weak at. Got no patience for guys being on the active roster for years that suck. GM and coach gotta do their job.

11 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

They chose and rostered all of them. Several other guys come through and snipped. So yeah….I demand a couple young DBs show up. It is on the coaches. Might just find a Diamond in the Rough. These guys have talents. Gotta get it out of them and can’t ask them to accel in areas they are weak at. Got no patience for guys being on the active roster for years that suck. GM and coach gotta do their job.

Low bar,searching for DITRS. Nice though,not something I want to rely on

11 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

They chose and rostered all of them. Several other guys come through and snipped. So yeah….I demand a couple young DBs show up. It is on the coaches. Might just find a Diamond in the Rough. These guys have talents. Gotta get it out of them and can’t ask them to accel in areas they are weak at. Got no patience for guys being on the active roster for years that suck. GM and coach gotta do their job.

So they will make a UDFA into Sauce Gardner? Awesome. Oh well off to watch the USFL,at least it's football

6 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Low bar,searching for DITRS. Nice though,not something I want to rely on

So they will make a UDFA into Sauce Gardner? Awesome. Oh well off to watch the USFL,at least it's football

Every guy on your team isn’t going to be as talented as a top five pick. Seems obvious to me. Like I said not all these young guys we are rostering are undrafted. McPherson drafted the highest in the fourth. But that just matters for pay at this point. Wherever they came from they been chosen to be here. We have the perfect opportunity to practice and play these young’s guys against the real top competition. Can’t really find out what they got playing against other fourth stringers. But the other key here is….it’s freaking May. A old guy vet isn’t helping anything right now. These young guys can grow and hopefully things click and they prove you wrong. You talk draft and about undrafted guys all the time. Why can’t a fourth round pick, guy we traded for or undrafted guy prove everybody wrong and become a starter? You are afraid to give them a chance. If we didn’t trade away our third first rounder maybe we pick a DB. Seems that they didn’t think a corner worthy anyway. Think a S would have been the pick. But chill a tiny bit here. When’s the first game? Just need some answers before that day. Plenty will still happen. If you roster that many guys let’s give them a chance. They can play or can’t. You put them in the first and second string for practice and PS games at least you can decide. Much harder to decide to keep or cut guys off their bench skills. Can’t see how you only need a top five level pick guy everywhere. So unrealistic. 32 teams dude. Got a great corner. Got an above average slot corner. So we just need a guy that doesn’t suck. Think we can get that out of one of these young guys with big potential. Better path to me than paying Nelson for the same results. Gotta get a guy that can at least do what he did. With the upside potential being a possible payoff. Not getting Jalen Ramsey play from undrafted guys. But not getting Ramsey either. 53 guys. All won’t be top five pick talents. But gotta build a team regardless.

I mean you watched the draft. We couldn’t even get Sauce that way. So what do you want to do? Pout because other teams get good players too? No team is perfect. We won the SB with Mills and Darby for goodness sakes.

You trade back a first round pick for future draft capital you don’t get the payoff now. Think you liked that idea and move. But this is the downside. Hurts this year’s team. Losing that year of growth with the team and development. Got the upside of more future options. Heck maybe we can use that pick and trade for a DB this season if the opportunity arises. The big heavy lifting has been done for the season. Agree there. But not done yet. TC and PS will give us a better view on our whole situation. Heck seems like a big injury happens every year also. Rosie has to make a good decision on every opportunity. If nobody works at corner then he has to get more aggressive. But that costs. I’m fine with trading future draft picks to improve this team. Especially if it’s for a player to be here longer term. I think Cox will be traded. Reagor hopefully gets pawned off. I still expect moves. Things aren’t done yet. The question is what price you willing to pay to fix what specific issue. Pretty sure we could trade both first rounders next year for a really good DB. Is that what you think we should though? I’m not feeling wasting a bunch of money on an old vet though. I want to judge what we have on the roster first….unless a crazy good opportunity arises.

What I noticed was the top corners go super early in the last few drafts. Stingley and Sauce were the only guys worth a first round pick arguably. Had to sell the farm for them. So not realistic options. 

Seemed like you were very high on trading up for our first round pick FL. Wasn’t my guy. Think we got him to run Gannon’s D more than him being that level player. Going to move some of that huge Dline money out. So makes some sense. Don’t see Davis as some All Pro guy though. Don’t see Jergens that way either. Jergens has some medical concerns also. Worked out year one for Dickerson. Everybody loves the Dickerson pick now. But I still have that skeptical fear of his durability. Believed going into that draft he isn’t durable. Did everything to prove me wrong rookie season. But one healthy season isn’t enough. Love to be wrong when it’s great for our team though. Dickerson I believe a much bigger talent than Jergens however. And I too really want big time playmakers. Those two picks were drafted for need…I feel. Many are much higher on them than I fortunately. So hopefully I’m wrong. Loved the AJ signing. Think we got super lucky there. We wanted Kirk and Ridley and some others. But they wouldn’t have solved the Press D dilemma. We needed some vet in that room. Thought we whiffed on the Woods trade. They got him cheap. But ended up still benefiting us because that enabled them to trade AJ as their plan. Love Dean. Can’t know all the medicals. But do think he has Pro Bowl potential. Home run pick. Last year in the same round got Milton that I really loved that pick. Everybody knows I’m a day two of the draft guy. Milton and Dean could make the huge difference for us. Think Calcatarra ….the late round TE….is a good player. Medical concerns again. But good receiving TE. Seems that became our MO drafting. We taking high upside injury and durability concern guys. Really risky. The payoff can be huge at least. But a regular decent player on the field is better than an All Pro in the tub. Will it payoff or bite us? We mostly have bad luck through the years it feels to me. But have noticed Siri is all about cupcake mini camp and practicing through the season. He really doesn’t want guys getting injured. It’s a balance. Tough to say. Feel like a contending team it’s wise. Older players experienced guys a must. But feel we are a young growing developing team….or at least need to be. So think we need to sharpen iron on iron and really practice and work hard to get there. I’m old school. Believe in on the field practice and contact. Film study and discussion only gets you so far. Hitting and contact in practice, mini camps and PS keeps shrinking all the time. Think it’s actually dangerous. Think guys need that. Think if you don’t get prepared before you go all out in a game that jumps the likelihood of injury. But they now have 17 games. Feels foregone it will be 18 games before the decade is out. Don’t think 18 games is good for the game.