1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No one has said he can't throw a deep ball.  That's a straw man that keeps getting tossed out.   What he hasn't done is throw deep over the middle... or even intermediate over the middle.  That's where windows generally close faster than the outside where you can throw an arced ball.  

So, the question is why hasn't he thrown the ball over the middle, and that's where the conjecture comes in.  It's those over the middle throws that require more arm strength, because of the small windows and how fast they close.  Throwing a rainbow in there gets a receiver killed, the pass picked off, or leads to a lot of break ups.    I guess the question is: Why hasn't he thrown there?  

I think we know why. But I don’t want to be labeled a Hurts hater 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No one has said he can't throw a deep ball.  That's a straw man that keeps getting tossed out.   What he hasn't done is throw deep over the middle... or even intermediate over the middle.  That's where windows generally close faster than the outside where you can throw an arced ball.  

So, the question is why hasn't he thrown the ball over the middle, and that's where the conjecture comes in.  It's those over the middle throws that require more arm strength, because of the small windows and how fast they close.  Throwing a rainbow in there gets a receiver killed, the pass picked off, or leads to a lot of break ups.    I guess the question is: Why hasn't he thrown there?  

Looks like the title for an investigative podcast.

"Only Throws Down the Middle."

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No one has said he can't throw a deep ball.  That's a straw man that keeps getting tossed out.   What he hasn't done is throw deep over the middle... or even intermediate over the middle.  That's where windows generally close faster than the outside where you can throw an arced ball.  

So, the question is why hasn't he thrown the ball over the middle, and that's where the conjecture comes in.  It's those over the middle throws that require more arm strength, because of the small windows and how fast they close.  Throwing a rainbow in there gets a receiver killed, the pass picked off, or leads to a lot of break ups.    I guess the question is: Why hasn't he thrown there?  

Most reasonable posters have this position. There's a few (who Manu debated above) that were even complaining about the pass to Watkins not being good enough. 

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I think their LB's are better than their CB's.  I worry about tipped balls trying to force things over the middle.

Agree. I don't think this is the game we should try and force stuff up the middle. But at some point we're going to have to because teams will adjust to take away anything outside (and the bubble screens, which San Fran did a nice job of taking away). 

5 minutes ago, RLC said:

Dolphins 1st round pick watch

Tbh it might actually be an upgrade with brisset at this point in time 

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

You and Swoop were arguing with Manu that we shouldn't consider running numbers for a QB. So if that's your argument, then Lamar is very pedestrian, with a good TD/INT ratio. Because so far this year (Hurts 2nd also), Hurts has a better pass completion percentage, yards per game, and TD/INT ratio. 

Except Lamar's running made him MVP level. In no way am I saying Hurts will do the same. But you are cherry picking to fit your agenda, and as I said at the start, it's insufferable. 

I think you are missing the key element in that, while running for the most yards ever by a QB, he also led the league in TD passes, and TD;INT ratio.  Just the running, even though it was record setting was not enough.  His passing contributed significantly to his MVP case.

2 minutes ago, jwill2420 said:

I think we know why. But I don’t want to be labeled a Hurts hater 

Feel free to expand on why. The Hurts "haters" are the guys that just show up to bash him as soon as he's mentioned, regardless of the discussion. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Tbh it might actually be an upgrade with brisset at this point in time 

Sad….I remember when tank for Tua was a thing. 

3 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Looks like the title for an investigative podcast.

"Only Throws Down the Middle."

Probably should ask Keith Morrison to get on this with a new dateline. Can call the episode "stuck in the middle with you”

3 minutes ago, jwill2420 said:

I’ll settle for one throw over the middle. Look at his passing chart. He hasnt thrown over the middle yet. Everything is 15 yards and under and to the outside with a few bubble screens. 
 

I will give Hurts credit for better accuracy on the LOS throws.  None of the bubble screens in week 1 would have worked with the former guy.  

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Agree. I don't think this is the game we should try and force stuff up the middle. But at some point we're going to have to because teams will adjust to take away anything outside (and the bubble screens, which San Fran did a nice job of taking away). 

Dallas definitely has the speed on defense to take those bubble screens away also.

Just now, jwill2420 said:

Sad….I remember when tank for Tua was a thing. 

I never liked tua. I thought he was overrated ans then he had the hip injury i was completely out. 

Just now, downundermike said:

Dallas definitely has the speed on defense to take those bubble screens away also.

I think I saw somewhere that San Fran noticed whenever JJAW and somebody else was brought in, they knew immediately we were going to run a bubble screen. Time for Sirianni to break tendency methinks. A nice fake bubble to Quez to start the game and a deep shot to Smith/Reagor could be a great way to catch Dallas off guard. 

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

Feel free to expand on why. The Hurts "haters" are the guys that just show up to bash him as soon as he's mentioned, regardless of the discussion. 

I given my reasons for my doubts on Hurts. I really like the guy. I think he’s a great leader with awesome athleticism but I have serious questions about his throwing arm. 

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I think I saw somewhere that San Fran noticed whenever JJAW and somebody else was brought in, they knew immediately we were going to run a bubble screen. Time for Sirianni to break tendency methinks. A nice fake bubble to Quez to start the game and a deep shot to Smith/Reagor could be a great way to catch Dallas off guard. 

Yep.  He needs to adjust to that, or he is quickly going to become Doug.  In the NFL teams learn tendencies, and exploit them.

12 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Apples and oranges.

Wentz had already demonstrated success as a pocket passer.  He had made all the throws.  His issues were above the shoulders.  Hero ball, ball security, accountability, etc.

Hurts is almost the exact opposite.  Seems to have the intangibles.  But hasn't yet demonstrated the ability to play QB in the pocket. 

Until he hits a few seam routes, it's fair to doubt his ability to do so.

This is very reasonable.  Is that allowed?

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

I think I saw somewhere that San Fran noticed whenever JJAW and somebody else was brought in, they knew immediately we were going to run a bubble screen. Time for Sirianni to break tendency methinks. A nice fake bubble to Quez to start the game and a deep shot to Smith/Reagor could be a great way to catch Dallas off guard. 

That might have been Zach berman who said that with JJaw. I believe he either said it on his Monday interview on 975 or the after the game podcast. I remember hearing it when i was listening to the post game/next day interviews. 

4 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I will give Hurts credit for better accuracy on the LOS throws.  None of the bubble screens in week 1 would have worked with the former guy.  

Sure but that’s gotta be one of the easiest throws a QB has to make…Right?

7 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Most reasonable posters have this position. There's a few (who Manu debated above) that were even complaining about the pass to Watkins not being good enough. 

I'm just upset that Watkins couldn't hit 22 mph and score on that play.   He's slow.  We should cut him.  

 

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No one has said he can't throw a deep ball.  That's a straw man that keeps getting tossed out.   What he hasn't done is throw deep over the middle... or even intermediate over the middle.  That's where windows generally close faster than the outside where you can throw an arced ball.  

So, the question is why hasn't he thrown the ball over the middle, and that's where the conjecture comes in.  It's those over the middle throws that require more arm strength, because of the small windows and how fast they close.  Throwing a rainbow in there gets a receiver killed, the pass picked off, or leads to a lot of break ups.    I guess the question is: Why hasn't he thrown there?  

Actually I said it. And I will stand by it until I see/feel otherwise

So are people going to watch the regular broadcast or the Peyton/Eli broadcast?

I think I'm going to have to record the Manning one and re-watch it later. I'm interested to hear what they point out about this offense but I don't think watching live I can pay attention to everything. 

@justrelax

Have you had a chance to watch the All 22 yet? Any notes on Kelce? It seemed to be one of the worst games of his career to my glancing eye. Any thoughts on that?

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm just upset that Watkins couldn't hit 22 mph and score on that play.  

 

We also wouldn’t have witnessed that god awful attempt at the Philly special play. Yikes!!!!

26 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Who accused someone of being racist?

We had people saying Hurts can’t throw a deep ball after completing two Sunday. Then it was, well what about the misses? Yeah, he was too late on one throw, missed badly on one and then wasn’t able to step into another, leaving it short.

And then we had you nitpicking a 91-yard pass because Watkins slowed up for a quarter of a step on a throw 45 yards downfield. You then bizarrely went on about how you can throw the football 45 yards so it’s no big deal. It’s preposterous. 

Oh, so in a different thread that almost no one in here as read in all likelihood? Ok. 

@EazyEaglez accused multiple people for being racist. @downundermike can back me up on this. Not sure why it being in a different thread (on the same site mind you) suddenly makes it invalid, but whatever.

As for the arm strength debate, you're proving my point. People can praise his good throws as an example of why his arm strength isn't a problem. When people use examples as to why it is, you (and others) dismiss it and say we're being nitpicky. Why is it acceptable for one and not the other? You defended his arm saying he put it 45 yards in the air, as if it's some impressive distance. It isn't, but there's more to arm strength than how far you can throw a lob.

Watkins did slow up. I don't know why this bothers you so much. I never said the throw was bad. I never said it had bad touch. I never said it wasn't a great play. I said he slowed down. A stronger arm would prevent that. So would timing. 

Again, pointing a negative out doesn't mean we're dismissing the positive. 

5 minutes ago, greend said:

Actually I said it. And I will stand by it until I see/feel otherwise

But can he throw it in the first half before arm fatigue sets in and we have to go to the bullpen.