Kenny Pickett (Pittsburgh QB) -- DRAFTED BY PITTSBURGH #20

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

None of us know that.  All we can do is use our eyes and pretend that we know.  I won't be ecstatic or disappointed if he is drafted by the team.  I just believe that we need a QB to progress and waiting rarely pays off with QBs.  He is clearly one of the best 2 or 3 QB prospects available this year.

Oh no I know and that's why this is a really interesting and good debate.

[DeathByEagle]

On 1/10/2022 at 5:20 PM, birdman#12 said:

Drafting a 1st round QB just recreates the scenario of Wentz-Hurts......

They don't need a QB this year, and drafting a project is nothing more than a reach and a waste of a high draft pick....and for a team that has many defensive needs, it would again be another example of howie trying to show how smart he is.....no thanks.  

I'd like to get past the old cleveland browns ways of trying to find the "next big thing".  If the eagles can't develop QBs, why the hell would another project change anything?

 

It would not recreate any like the Wentz scenario. Wentz was given an extension, receiving franchise QB money just a year before. That type of commitment shows he is your guy. Drafting Hurts in the 2nd round might have been a move to get a solid backup. Yes it backfired as it messed with Wentz mind. Doug made it worse when he pulled Wentz for Hurts.

Unlike Wentz, Hurts is on a rookie contract and not promised a thing going forward. No commitment has been made for the future. So drafting a QB does nothing. Just puts him were he belongs, as a very good, solid backup QB option OR in a position to fight for a starting spot. Even if that means being traded to another team. 

[ManchesterEagle]

On 1/10/2022 at 7:03 PM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Because some of the fans have decided that Hurts is not the answer. That he can't continue to improve and in fact that he will not continue to improve. 

Maybe he can, maybe he can't. But to me the very fact we don't know the answer is why Hurts should get 2022.

 

On 1/10/2022 at 8:29 PM, nipples said:

Yeah… I think people forget (or willfully ignore) just how young the kid still is. Right now with 20 games of NFL experience he’s still the same age or younger than a lot of QBs that will be drafted this spring, including Pickett. 

 

15 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

If he's there at 15, I would take him, but that's it, not trading up to go get him.

 

14 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

He's projected to be first QB off the board, if he's still there at 15 I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole because that means teams like Detroit, Houston, WFT, Carolina, Denver and Chicago have all decided they're better off with a roster hole under center than investing a first rounder in this guy.

Problem is there are people on this board and on this thread who decided a long time ago that Hurts should not be our starting QB in either the short or long term and have been hoping he gets benched at every opportunity, whether for Flacco, Minshew or now Pickett.

Simple fact is that the Eagles took him in the second round because they thought he could be a good starting QB in this league and to be a plan B to Wentz. The backup QB thing makes no sense at all. You don't draft a developmental QB in the second round in the hope that perhaps he turns into a good backup in year 2 or 3 before he moves on after his rookie deal. It makes no sense.

Hurts has had a solid year. D-Shiz posted a really good link to a table which combined a lot of the advanced measuring tools for Quarterbacks and Hurts ranked 17th. He is 23 and younger than Pickett and was always viewed as a developmental QB who would need time to grow and be coached up.

Now the majority of the Hurts supporters are not saying he is the guy, or that we should be extending him (we can't anyway until next year and even then it may be worth waiting until 2024 to decide). But the potential is clear. Could he have reached his limit and get exposed next year? Absolutely. But we don't know that (even though some swear blind they do).

We have a more promising QB situation than a fair few teams in the NFL. We also have an absolute glaring need to add young talent on the D. By all means trade down and get an extra first or second for next year so we have options if Hurts doesn't develop. But it's crazy at this point to be looking to trade up to pick a QB in a really weak QB draft who may well be a one year wonder, when you have a younger QB who has already shown he can play well at NFL level and may develop into something more.

No to Pickett. 

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

No to Pickett. 

GM's do not go to a lot of games to scout, the scouts do that.  Howie went and watched Pickett play.

 

 

[kiwieagle]

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

GM's do not go to a lot of games to scout, the scouts do that.  Howie went and watched Pickett play.

 

 

The narrative on Hurts has probably changed a bit since Nov 11. We still don't know if he will develop into a reliable passer but unless they are absolutely in love with one of these guys, think the Eagles internally are a lot more comfortable now rolling with him for another year and giving him that chance than they were say 2 months ago.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Problem is there are people on this board and on this thread who decided a long time ago that Hurts should not be our starting QB in either the short or long term and have been hoping he gets benched at every opportunity, whether for Flacco, Minshew or now Pickett.

It is like all things these days you are either one way or another. Not you but people in general. You either have to be all in on one side or all in on the other. Very few are able to take a balanced view of things. 

That is especially true of the QB position. It was the same with Hurts, the same with Foles. Even Bradford had his defenders.

[Ray75]

8 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

 

Problem is there are people on this board and on this thread who decided a long time ago that Hurts should not be our starting QB in either the short or long term and have been hoping he gets benched at every opportunity, whether for Flacco, Minshew or now Pickett.

Simple fact is that the Eagles took him in the second round because they thought he could be a good starting QB in this league and to be a plan B to Wentz. The backup QB thing makes no sense at all. You don't draft a developmental QB in the second round in the hope that perhaps he turns into a good backup in year 2 or 3 before he moves on after his rookie deal. It makes no sense.

Hurts has had a solid year. D-Shiz posted a really good link to a table which combined a lot of the advanced measuring tools for Quarterbacks and Hurts ranked 17th. He is 23 and younger than Pickett and was always viewed as a developmental QB who would need time to grow and be coached up.

Now the majority of the Hurts supporters are not saying he is the guy, or that we should be extending him (we can't anyway until next year and even then it may be worth waiting until 2024 to decide). But the potential is clear. Could he have reached his limit and get exposed next year? Absolutely. But we don't know that (even though some swear blind they do).

We have a more promising QB situation than a fair few teams in the NFL. We also have an absolute glaring need to add young talent on the D. By all means trade down and get an extra first or second for next year so we have options if Hurts doesn't develop. But it's crazy at this point to be looking to trade up to pick a QB in a really weak QB draft who may well be a one year wonder, when you have a younger QB who has already shown he can play well at NFL level and may develop into something more.

No to Pickett. 

 

Agreed 100 %!

Don’t get me wrong. I like Pickett but this is not the offseason to think about taking a QB or trading for one to replace Hurts.

Eagles have a golden opportunity to draft a young nucleus for the future to replace the old guard in time.

Surround Hurts with more talent on both sides of the ball. A new CB to pair with Slay, a new DE to pair with Sweat and hopefully BG, possibly Kelce’s or Brooks heir, a stud LB to pair with Edwards and Taylor, a receiver to pair with Smith.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Surround Hurts with more talent on both sides of the ball. A new CB to pair with Slay, a new DE to pair with Sweat and hopefully BG, possibly Kelce’s or Brooks heir, a stud LB to pair with Edwards and Taylor, a receiver to pair with Smith.

If this team goes heavy defense in the off season and gets moves right that could be a game changer. We will never know what may have happened this year and its all speculation but with a better defense who knows? They couldn't get one stop vs the Chiefs but the offense had a good game. They struggled against the Chargers. With a better defense, with play makers they could have had 2-3 more wins and then suddenly you are potentially the #1 or #2 seed.

[birdman#12]

13 hours ago, DeathByEagle said:

It would not recreate any like the Wentz scenario. Wentz was given an extension, receiving franchise QB money just a year before. That type of commitment shows he is your guy. Drafting Hurts in the 2nd round might have been a move to get a solid backup. Yes it backfired as it messed with Wentz mind. Doug made it worse when he pulled Wentz for Hurts.

Unlike Wentz, Hurts is on a rookie contract and not promised a thing going forward. No commitment has been made for the future. So drafting a QB does nothing. Just puts him were he belongs, as a very good, solid backup QB option OR in a position to fight for a starting spot. Even if that means being traded to another team. 

Everybody wants to think that the Wentz-Hurst scenario was unique.  But QBs are more "sensitive" to what the team does when it comes to other QBs.

Rodgers was pissed when they drafted Jordan Love.  Brady wanted answers when the patriots drafted Garrapolo. Garrapolo didn't like the 49ers drafting Lance......and there are others.  You don't draft backup QBs in the first or 2nd rounds.....they're being drafted to compete and eventually take over the starting position.  

QBs confidence is paramount to getting better.  Any thought that the team is losing confidence in him can cause pressure to perform, which can lead to forcing a play.  Also when a team pulls a QB, that has a huge impact on his psyche.

This is not about contracts.  This is about giving your QB a vote of confidence. Telling a young QB that your going to give him the right amount of time to develop and create chemistry with the other skill players.  Hurts played better than Lawrence, Wilson, Lance and Fields.  Jones was better than all of them.  Do you think that the Jags, Jets, 49ers, or bears are going to draft a QB this year?

And don't talk to me about "upside".  Hurts has all the tools and have been improving as the year went on. He has the confidence of his offensive line and skill players.  He has a leader mentality......all he needs is time to keep developing.

[DeathByEagle]

7 hours ago, birdman#12 said:

Everybody wants to think that the Wentz-Hurst scenario was unique.  But QBs are more "sensitive" to what the team does when it comes to other QBs.

Rodgers was pissed when they drafted Jordan Love.  Brady wanted answers when the patriots drafted Garrapolo. Garrapolo didn't like the 49ers drafting Lance......and there are others.  You don't draft backup QBs in the first or 2nd rounds.....they're being drafted to compete and eventually take over the starting position.  

QBs confidence is paramount to getting better.  Any thought that the team is losing confidence in him can cause pressure to perform, which can lead to forcing a play.  Also when a team pulls a QB, that has a huge impact on his psyche.

This is not about contracts.  This is about giving your QB a vote of confidence. Telling a young QB that your going to give him the right amount of time to develop and create chemistry with the other skill players.  Hurts played better than Lawrence, Wilson, Lance and Fields.  Jones was better than all of them.  Do you think that the Jags, Jets, 49ers, or bears are going to draft a QB this year?

And don't talk to me about "upside".  Hurts has all the tools and have been improving as the year went on. He has the confidence of his offensive line and skill players.  He has a leader mentality......all he needs is time to keep developing.

Again your talking about vet franchise QBs who have proven themselves. Even Wentz when he received his contract proved himself in 2017.

Hurts is in his 2nd year. He has zero right to be a drama queen. He has proven nothing to this point. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, birdman#12 said:

Hurts played better than Lawrence, Wilson, Lance and Fields.  Jones was better than all of them. 

Why does 2nd year QB Jalen Hurts get compared to rookies.  His peers are Burrow, Herbert and Tua

And don't talk to me about "upside".  Hurts has all the tools and have been improving as the year went on. He has the confidence of his offensive line and skill players.  He has a leader mentality......all he needs is time to keep developing.

He did not improve as the year went on.  In week 8 the team went run heavy and took the ball out of his hands as a passer

See replies in bold

[birdman#12]

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

See replies in bold

Because Hurts only played 4 games last year in a different offense with a banged up line and a lack of skill players.  It's his first full year......lawrence and wilson played the most and they were not very good.  

Well, it's clear that if you didn't see improvement, you don't know what you're looking at...

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

Because Hurts only played 4 games last year in a different offense with a banged up line and a lack of skill players.  It's his first full year......lawrence and wilson played the most and they were not very good.  

Well, it's clear that if you didn't see improvement, you don't know what you're looking at...

The offense shifted to a run heavy approach week 8 in Detroit.  The 7 games before that, Hurts had 2 of his 5 lowest QBR games.  His other 3 lowest games QBR wise were weeks 15, 16 and 17.

He threw 6 TD's with 5 picks in the 7 games after Detroit.  He only threw for more than 200 yards twice after the Detroit game.  He threw 10 TD's with 4 picks in the 7 games before Detroit.

There was no improvement in Hurts after Detroit.  There was an improvement by the coaching staff taking the ball out of his hands and leaning on the running game.

[NJWolverEagle11]

Random fact: I saw Pickett today from a distance at the gym I work at. (They share a space w TEST Football Academy, which Pickett was there for, in NJ)

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, NJWolverEagle11 said:

Random fact: I saw Pickett today from a distance at the gym I work at. (They share a space w TEST Football Academy, which Pickett was there for, in NJ)

And………………

[NJWolverEagle11]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

And………………

I mean that's it lol.

[eglz1]

On 1/10/2022 at 3:29 PM, nipples said:

Yeah… I think people forget (or willfully ignore) just how young the kid still is. Right now with 20 games of NFL experience he’s still the same age or younger than a lot of QBs that will be drafted this spring, including Pickett. 

What does chronological age have to do with it? Football experience - number of games played, number of games started etc. sure. A year or two in age? I would think there are other factors more responsible for mental or emotional development than chronological age.

[eglz1]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:36 AM, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

None of us know that.  All we can do is use our eyes and pretend that we know.  I won't be ecstatic or disappointed if he is drafted by the team.  I just believe that we need a QB to progress and waiting rarely pays off with QBs.  He is clearly one of the best 2 or 3 QB prospects available this year.

But can he rush for 7 or 8 hundred yards/year. That's really important for a quarterback, ya know.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

19 hours ago, birdman#12 said:

Everybody wants to think that the Wentz-Hurst scenario was unique.  But QBs are more "sensitive" to what the team does when it comes to other QBs.

Rodgers was pissed when they drafted Jordan Love.  Brady wanted answers when the patriots drafted Garrapolo. Garrapolo didn't like the 49ers drafting Lance......and there are others.  You don't draft backup QBs in the first or 2nd rounds.....they're being drafted to compete and eventually take over the starting position

You are absolutely right... And yet what do most of those QBs have in common? They all came out, they all performed and they staved off the competition. Ok sure Jimmy G probably won't long term but going in to the play offs he's their starting QB. 

What did Wentz do? Well when the heat was on he crumbled.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

9 hours ago, eglz1 said:

But can he rush for 7 or 8 hundred yards/year. That's really important for a quarterback, ya know.

And, he can't deadlift 600 and doesn't have "swag for days."  Clearly, not good enough to start here.  

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

On 1/11/2022 at 6:25 PM, ManchesterEagle said:

Problem is there are people on this board and on this thread who decided a long time ago that Hurts should not be our starting QB in either the short or long term and have been hoping he gets benched at every opportunity, whether for Flacco, Minshew or now Pickett.

Simple fact is that the Eagles took him in the second round because they thought he could be a good starting QB in this league and to be a plan B to Wentz. The backup QB thing makes no sense at all. You don't draft a developmental QB in the second round in the hope that perhaps he turns into a good backup in year 2 or 3 before he moves on after his rookie deal. It makes no sense.

Hurts has had a solid year. D-Shiz posted a really good link to a table which combined a lot of the advanced measuring tools for Quarterbacks and Hurts ranked 17th. He is 23 and younger than Pickett and was always viewed as a developmental QB who would need time to grow and be coached up.

Now the majority of the Hurts supporters are not saying he is the guy, or that we should be extending him (we can't anyway until next year and even then it may be worth waiting until 2024 to decide). But the potential is clear. Could he have reached his limit and get exposed next year? Absolutely. But we don't know that (even though some swear blind they do).

We have a more promising QB situation than a fair few teams in the NFL. We also have an absolute glaring need to add young talent on the D. By all means trade down and get an extra first or second for next year so we have options if Hurts doesn't develop. But it's crazy at this point to be looking to trade up to pick a QB in a really weak QB draft who may well be a one year wonder, when you have a younger QB who has already shown he can play well at NFL level and may develop into something more.

No to Pickett. 

This is a little over the top, but I know it's cool to create a pro- and anti- [insert player here] type of discussion versus what it really is...a  "professional QB" topic.  The question really is "can the current QB get this team over the top playing the style that he does?" OR "can the current QB develop to a high level within his rookie deal?" OR "can the team stack up enough talent around the current QB to make up for his issues?"  Once you have those answers, you now know what to do.  I say "NO" to all of those, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

Now, I have drawn my theory on our current QB situation from watching ALOT of Hurts in real time at Alabama and OU.  Some of those games live and in person.  Alabama JH had the same bad tendencies and mechanics as Oklahoma JH as Philadelphia JH.  Why is his QB development so incremental and below standard?  Most QBs develop passing and offensive QBing skills through coaching and desire at a higher rate in college, but for some reason, he did not.  And don't say that OU and Alabama don't care about QB coaching....that's BS.  He seems to have won mostly because of systems and tons of 1st round talent around him not vice versa.

How does this relate to Pickett (this topic)?  Pickett has shown development over his college career.  Pickett has shown NFL quality skill sets behind center.  Pickett also has some of the same leadership intangibles that everyone loves about Hurts (and he's an Eagles fan. LOL.)  Pickett has prototype NFL measurables.  Pickett has QB mobility.  Pickett has better pocket presence.  Pickett worked in an NFL system successfully.  Pickett raised the (not premium) talent around him up to create success (not vice versa).  And lastly, Pickett will come in with an additional 2 years of rookie contract time (development time) that our current QB does not have.  

I'm won't be particularly happy or bummed if they don't take Pickett.  This team has plenty of issues.  I just feel that we need a future long term QB, not a major developmental project behind center.  That is why I continue to look closely at QBs and Pickett is one of the top ones in this class.  I like him above the rest, but there are others that I believe give us better long term value than our current situation.

[bitbased]

My assumption if Pickett falls to us then we're going to trade down. Howie is all about value and we're the most likely team to trade down having three 1sts so I could see a lot of offers coming in.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

38 minutes ago, bitbased said:

My assumption if Pickett falls to us then we're going to trade down. Howie is all about value and we're the most likely team to trade down having three 1sts so I could see a lot of offers coming in.

I'm actually starting to get there too. I'm not sure they are going to take a QB. I think they are going to give Hurts another year because he's shown enough. We know Howie wanted Wilson and wants to make up for that. Can you imagine if they take a QB and Hurts then continues to develop and becomes a really good NFL QB?

[birdman#12]

On 1/13/2022 at 3:46 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

You are absolutely right... And yet what do most of those QBs have in common? They all came out, they all performed and they staved off the competition. Ok sure Jimmy G probably won't long term but going in to the play offs he's their starting QB. 

What did Wentz do? Well when the heat was on he crumbled.

Well, I've maintained for a while that something else was wrong with Wentz that year......he was completely different than previous years.....like he completely forgot how to play the position.   I've never seen anything like that.....and I don't believe it was because of Hurts and feeling pressure.  Yeah, he could have handled that a lot better, but for a guy to fall off so much, so fast, I just can't believe something wasn't wrong with him.

[nipples]

On 1/12/2022 at 6:29 PM, downundermike said:

The offense shifted to a run heavy approach week 8 in Detroit.  The 7 games before that, Hurts had 2 of his 5 lowest QBR games.  His other 3 lowest games QBR wise were weeks 15, 16 and 17.

He threw 6 TD's with 5 picks in the 7 games after Detroit.  He only threw for more than 200 yards twice after the Detroit game.  He threw 10 TD's with 4 picks in the 7 games before Detroit.

There was no improvement in Hurts after Detroit.  There was an improvement by the coaching staff taking the ball out of his hands and leaning on the running game.

Cool story and all, but I actually watched the games. It was clear as day that he began throwing the ball more accurately and going through progressions more often as the season went on.