EMB Blog: 2022 Off-Season

[Guest]

@Texas Eagle who are we trading today to gain an extra pick or two ??  WR room pretty full, could probably get something for Agholor.

[BigEFly]

@austinfan   Howie learns from his mistakes?  I like his draft so far but I wouldn’t have liked Dean in the second as much as I like him in the third.  But let’s dissect what Howie said last night (as slanted as his post round presser answers are).  We are consistent, he said about always choosing OL and DL over other positions.  So his picks last night were saved not from learning from his mistakes but rather on a valuation that is sound.  Now, that said, his track record on Day 2.  His track record is he will take a chance on a player that dropped due to injury (check) and he will draft a unicorn (check).  Fortunately, he switched the injury and unicorn positioning last night.  Because he learned?  Nah, because the unicorn is an OL.  Now, what may be a positive is that I think Sirianni’s Five Things He Looks For in a Football Player did have an influence.  So instead of a green unicorn, he got an established player that loves ball in Jurgens.  But is that because Howie learned from his mistakes?  Nope.  In Dean, he got an LB that loves ball.  Health?  Maybe, we’ll see.  Learned from his mistakes?  Nope, still willing to take the risk with the injured player that dropped.

[ManuManu]

10 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Why is Linderbaum, born April 7 2000 a finished product, but Jurgens who is older than him, born August 21 1999 need more coaching ??

Jurgens also played in 31 games at Nebraska, Linderbaum only played in 22 games at Iowa.

So why is the younger guy who has played less games in college a finished product ????

 

Sometimes I really wonder if you actually believe the nonsense you post.

 

https://insidetheiggles.com/2022/04/22/nfl-draft-prospect-eagles-jason-kelce/

 

 

Linderbaum is far more polished. Jurgens was converted to C after being recruited to Nebraska to play tight end. 

[Texas Eagle]

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

@Texas Eagle who are we trading today to gain an extra pick or two ??  WR room pretty full, could probably get something for Agholor.

Really hoping to get something for Nate Gerry. We’re pretty set at LB finally.

[DEagle7]

Guys we've been over this.  Jurgen's nickname is "Beef Jurgy".  He is clearly the superior prospect. 

[Texas Eagle]

1 hour ago, GoEagles5921 said:

You disappointed??? I’m shocked 

Where in what I said did disappointment come off? I get you’re new here and apparently love the sound of your own voice but you have some work to do before you can start policing the sentiment of the blog.

[ManuManu]

 

[eagle45]

1 minute ago, BigEFly said:

@austinfan   Howie learns from his mistakes?  I like his draft so far but I wouldn’t have liked Dean in the second as much as I like him in the third.  But let’s dissect what Howie said last night (as slanted as his post round presser answers are).  We are consistent, he said about always choosing OL and DL over other positions.  So his picks last night were saved not from learning from his mistakes but rather on a valuation that is sound.  Now, that said, his track record on Day 2.  His track record is he will take a chance on a player that dropped due to injury (check) and he will draft a unicorn (check).  Fortunately, he switched the injury and unicorn positioning last night.  Because he learned?  Nah, because the unicorn is an OL.  Now, what may be a positive is that I think Sirianni’s Five Things He Looks For in a Football Player did have an influence.  So instead of a green unicorn, he got an established player that loves ball in Jurgens.  But is that because Howie learned from his mistakes?  Nope.  In Dean, he got an LB that loves ball.  Health?  Maybe, we’ll see.  Learned from his mistakes?  Nope, still willing to take the risk with the injured player that dropped.

I'm not Howie's biggest defender, but I don't think taking a risk on an injured player that dropped is inherently a mistake that needs to be eliminated from his draft habits (Sidney Jones vs. Dickerson).  I don't think taking a risk on a raw explosive athlete (Reagor) over safer, better players is something that he should never do again (missed on Metcalf).

JJAW over Metcalf and Reagor over Jefferson are the perfect example...unfortunately very painful for us.  JJAW was considered more polished and safer than the vastly more explosive Metcalf.  Same with Jefferson vs. Reagor.

I do generally resent the safer lower upside picks.  Over the history of this franchise, those safer picks tend to have a higher total bust rate than when we take chances.

 

[Wentz_Era]

4 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Really hoping to get something for Nate Gerry. We’re pretty set at LB finally.

I think the Jags and Doug might be interested in Klecko.

[austinfan]

8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Why is Linderbaum, born April 7 2000 a finished product, but Jurgens who is older than him, born August 21 1999 need more coaching ??

Jurgens also played in 31 games at Nebraska, Linderbaum only played in 22 games at Iowa.

So why is the younger guy who has played less games in college a finished product ????

Because some guys get it faster than others, Linderbaum is a great technician, but he's maxed out his potential, he's not going to get much bigger or stronger, nor will his arms get longer.

Iowa has a long history of sending polished OL to the NFL.

https://www.si.com/college/iowa/football/offensivelineu-hawkeyes-040520

Jergens is more likely to fill out a bit more (bigger frame), has "normal" arms and hands for an interior OL, 33", 10", but also makes more mistakes, mentally and physically, than Linderbaum.

Ravens are going to start Linderbaum as a rookie, so being NFL ready is a big plus for them, Eagles are going to sit Jergens behind Kelce, so upside has more value to them.

[Texas Eagle]

1 minute ago, Wentz_Era said:

I think the Jags and Doug might be interested in Klecko.

Who? lol

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Guys we've been over this.  Jurgen's nickname is "Beef Jurgy".  He is clearly the superior prospect. 

I am not declaring one guy better than the other, but the fact that the guy who played one less season in college being a finished product is absurd.

[CouchKing]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

I am not declaring one guy better than the other, but the fact that the guy who played one less season in college being a finished product is absurd.

I would only believe that if the scouting reports said it. Citations please. Show some proof.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Linderbaum is far more polished. Jergens was converted to C after being recruited to Nebraska to play tight end. 

Linderbaum’s career at Iowa

Having been recruited as a defensive tackle despite his ability to play both ways, Linderbaum saw limited opportunity as a true freshman in 2018. The Hawkeyes were stacked with talent on the defensive line. While the environment offered the young offensive lineman valuable opportunity to learn, he saw action in just two games — Northern Illinois and Illinois — before taking a redshirt.

During practices for the Outback Bowl that concluded Iowa’s 2018 season, Linderbaum took reps at center. Impressing the coaches with his insane athleticism and innate understanding of leverage gained during his high school wrestling career, Linderbaum earned the starting role for the 2019 season.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CouchKing said:

I would only believe that if the scouting reports said it. Citations please. Show some proof.

Proof of what ?? Juergens played 9 more games in college, and as you see above, Linderbaum was recruited to Iowa as a DT.

[BigEFly]

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I'm not Howie's biggest defender, but I don't think taking a risk on an injured player that dropped is inherently a mistake that needs to be eliminated from his draft habits (Sidney Jones vs. Dickerson).  I don't think taking a risk on a raw explosive athlete (Reagor) over safer, better players is something that he should never do again (missed on Metcalf).

JJAW over Metcalf and Reagor over Jefferson are the perfect example...unfortunately very painful for us.  JJAW was considered more polished and safer than the vastly more explosive Metcalf.  Same with Jefferson vs. Reagor.

I do generally resent the safer lower upside picks.  Over the history of this franchise, those safer picks tend to have a higher total bust rate than when we take chances.

 

JJAW may be the Joe Douglas performance over athleticism concept (led FBS in contested catches). I do think that left with Joe (and Doug).   I am hoping the unicorn has to meet Sirianni’s five points or you will continue to get Reagors over Jeffersons.  Jury is still out on Taylor, for example.  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Because some guys get it faster than others, Linderbaum is a great technician, but he's maxed out his potential, he's not going to get much bigger or stronger, nor will his arms get longer.

Iowa has a long history of sending polished OL to the NFL.

https://www.si.com/college/iowa/football/offensivelineu-hawkeyes-040520

Jergens is more likely to fill out a bit more (bigger frame), has "normal" arms and hands for an interior OL, 33", 10", but also makes more mistakes, mentally and physically, than Linderbaum.

Ravens are going to start Linderbaum as a rookie, so being NFL ready is a big plus for them, Eagles are going to sit Jergens behind Kelce, so upside has more value to them.

Tony Pauline’s scouting report on Tyler Linderbaum

Positives: Exciting young center prospect with a large upside. Fundamentally sound, bends his knees, and consistently gets leverage on opponents. Exceptionally quick off the snap, stays square, and uses his hands very effectively. Keeps his head on a swivel, stays patient in pass protection, and works well with teammates.

Keeps his feet moving, works to block as many defenders as possible on a single snap, and shows outstanding vision. Fires out to the second level, moves well on his feet, and shows the ability to hit a moving target. Slides in space, blocks with balance, and keeps his feet moving.

Negatives: Overextends into run blocks on occasion. Does a lot of clutching and grabbing against bigger opponents. Gets run over at times. Struggles finishing blocks.

Analysis: While Linderbaum is the apple of many in the draft world’s eye, he’s an incomplete center who must get stronger and finish his game. His explosion and quickness off the snap give him a decided advantage, but Linderbaum struggles handling big, mauling opponents.

He’s a zone-blocking lineman who should only improve as he physically matures and adds bulk to his frame. In my opinion, Linderbaum is not worth an early first-round selection.

[austinfan]

10 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

@austinfan   Howie learns from his mistakes?  I like his draft so far but I wouldn’t have liked Dean in the second as much as I like him in the third.  But let’s dissect what Howie said last night (as slanted as his post round presser answers are).  We are consistent, he said about always choosing OL and DL over other positions.  So his picks last night were saved not from learning from his mistakes but rather on a valuation that is sound.  Now, that said, his track record on Day 2.  His track record is he will take a chance on a player that dropped due to injury (check) and he will draft a unicorn (check).  Fortunately, he switched the injury and unicorn positioning last night.  Because he learned?  Nah, because the unicorn is an OL.  Now, what may be a positive is that I think Sirianni’s Five Things He Looks For in a Football Player did have an influence.  So instead of a green unicorn, he got an established player that loves ball in Jurgens.  But is that because Howie learned from his mistakes?  Nope.  In Dean, he got an LB that loves ball.  Health?  Maybe, we’ll see.  Learned from his mistakes?  Nope, still willing to take the risk with the injured player that dropped.

I think Sirianni and Gannon are more comfortable with going with the scouts/the board, and that frees Howie to focus on value and trades and not have to mediate between coaches and scouts. There's that twitter about Sirianni telling Gannon to let Howie do his stuff. They both got nice toys for an early Christmas.

I'm convinced Jergens is Stoutland, the upside play, because Stoutland is confident he can coach up any OL with the "right stuff," work ethic, snarl and sufficient athleticism. Howie has always deferred to Stoutland's opinion for good reason - even Dillard wasn't a mistake so much as bad luck and Mialata (if he doesn't tear his bicep he's probably set as our LT).

Dean was luck, but Howie was smart enough to pounce on luck, supposedly Gannon was lobbying hard for Dean - but with Kelce, Seumalo, Herbig and Dillard gone in 2023 (if not today), keeping the OL intact was a higher priority. So it made sense to go Jergens over Dean at #51.

[BigEFly]

7 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Because some guys get it faster than others, Linderbaum is a great technician, but he's maxed out his potential, he's not going to get much bigger or stronger, nor will his arms get longer.

Iowa has a long history of sending polished OL to the NFL.

https://www.si.com/college/iowa/football/offensivelineu-hawkeyes-040520

Jergens is more likely to fill out a bit more (bigger frame), has "normal" arms and hands for an interior OL, 33", 10", but also makes more mistakes, mentally and physically, than Linderbaum.

Ravens are going to start Linderbaum as a rookie, so being NFL ready is a big plus for them, Eagles are going to sit Jergens behind Kelce, so upside has more value to them.

Jurgens reaches and leans more than Linderbaum. But that can be taught and Stout is a great teacher on those things. But Iowa isn’t a more polished football factory than Nebraska.  After all, it is the Rimington Trophy.

[eagle45]

Long term needs, IMO (looking beyond 2022):

1. QB

2. Speed at WR.  You all make fun of me, but it's something that will be lacking and will be exposed eventually until they are forced to re-invest in it.

3. RT.

4. Entire secondary.

5. Edge rusher.

[austinfan]

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

 

Problem is Linderbaum doesn't have a big frame, 6'2, 31" arms - you can only bulk up a "move" lineman so far. And Iowa linemen tend to enter the NFL as finished products.

Nebraska used to produce top run first OL, but that was a couple decades ago, now they're just another second tier program.

 

[CouchKing]

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Proof of what ?? Juergens played 9 more games in college, and as you see above, Linderbaum was recruited to Iowa as a DT.

From the Tony Paulin'es scouting report you quoted:

While Linderbaum is the apple of many in the draft world’s eye, he’s an incomplete center

I wanted to see proof that scouts said Linderbaum is more polished and ready. 

You provided the proof to the opposite.

Looks like you have proved your point.

[Wentz_Era]

I'm off the ledge a bit.  I still think Brown was a misallocation of resources given the current state of the team.  He a fantastic addition, but unless there is a meteoric rise this year from Hurts that firepower is wasted.  I love the Jurgens pick and I'm hoping Dean is healthy.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Problem is Linderbaum doesn't have a big frame, 6'2, 31" arms - you can only bulk up a "move" lineman so far. And Iowa linemen tend to enter the NFL as finished products.

Nebraska used to produce top run first OL, but that was a couple decades ago, now they're just another second tier program.

 

Jurgens draft profile, saying exactly what you are saying about Linderbaum.

 

Weaknesses

• Size and overall mass fall below the mark.
• Can be too hurried and impatient getting into his block.
• Will over-step or land at unfavorable angles.
• Climbs to second level require choppier steps for balance.
• Oversetting opens his back-side edge to rushers.
• Short arms diminish his block redirection in recovery mode.

[austinfan]

Just now, eagle45 said:

Long term needs, IMO (looking beyond 2022):

1. QB

2. Speed at WR.  You all make fun of me, but it's something that will be lacking and will be exposed eventually until they are forced to re-invest in it.

3. RT.

4. Entire secondary.

5. Edge rusher.

Lane is 32 this season, and if healthy, still the best RT in the NFL. Health is the only question, otherwise he should be a top RT until 35 or so. Driscoll has shown he's an adequate RT if needed.

Smith and Watkins have speed, not elite speed, but that's overrated, unless you have a DeSean who combines speed and the ability to track balls deep, a rare combination - just look at Hightower. This is a luxury, not a priority.

We'll see how the young DBs perform this year, somehow I don't get the feeling that Gannon was desperate, supposedly he was lobbying for Dean, not a DB.

Edge rusher is a need, with Graham and Barnett gone after this season.