The official Hurts/Minshew/Stinnett/Strong/EJ Perry containment thread

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

If he and AJ Brown both stay healthy, yes I do.

I find it hard to see how he can't really. With Smith, AJ Brown and Goedert I mean that should be at least 2500 just between those 3 right? If Hurts doesn't pass 4000 yards this year then he's not the answer and it means the team have had to rely on the run again. 

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

If he and AJ Brown both stay healthy, yes I do.

So you expect him to throw enough attempts to get to 4000 without any negative returns? When I think of Jalen, I think 25 or less attempts for success 

[brkmsn]

9 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

And what top ten QB can he be better than,?

Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow,  Rodger, Allen, Stafford, Jackson, Brady, Murray, Prescott, Carr, Cousins, Rodgers. So far Mac Jones looks way better as a QB.  At best he can make it to 13th and that's completely ignoring Lawrence, Fields and Lance from last year taking an actual year two leap and then the insane class next year that could have up to 7 first round QBs. The mountain Hurts would have to climb to be a top ten QB with his traits and skills is about damn near impossible. I say in two years he will be closer to out of the top 20 instead of entering the top 10

Does saying top ten just sound right coming out of your mouth so you just say it without thinking? It's a tremendous benchmark, but there is so much more to it than working hard. It's where the HoFers hang out 

 

I love how sure you are of yourself. Whether you like it or not, Hurts was a Pro Bowl alternate last season --- which means players and coaches think more highly of him than you do. PFF had him as the 11th ranked QB on their list, ahead of some of those guys you listed. So according to some out there, he's already close. We all want to see if he gets better. At this time, 2022 is an unknown. It's weird how you automatically expect everybody that is not Jalen Hurts to improve next season, but can't bring yourself to accept that he might. As bad as Hurts played in the playoff game last year, I don't think you can find 1 person that thinks Murray played better in his playoff game. So if you're asking me the question, I can definitely see guys like Murray, Carr, Prescott, Cousins, Jackson falling out of the top 10 if another QB has a better season. I think you listed Rodgers twice and some of those other guys may have made the top 10 last year, but they need to prove they can do the same thing again. Wentz looked the part in 2017, and then faltered trying to reach that level again.

Hurts could end up failing or succeeding. I'm just not so consumed with a prediction that I'm going to dedicate 95% of my posts to one. But you keep on being you.

 

 

[Shalodeep]

23 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I love how sure you are of yourself. Whether you like it or not, Hurts was a Pro Bowl alternate last season --- which means players and coaches think more highly of him than you do. PFF had him as the 11th ranked QB on their list, ahead of some of those guys you listed. So according to some out there, he's already close. We all want to see if he gets better. At this time, 2022 is an unknown. It's weird how you automatically expect everybody that is not Jalen Hurts to improve next season, but can't bring yourself to accept that he might. As bad as Hurts played in the playoff game last year, I don't think you can find 1 person that thinks Murray played better in his playoff game. So if you're asking me the question, I can definitely see guys like Murray, Carr, Prescott, Cousins, Jackson falling out of the top 10 if another QB has a better season. I think you listed Rodgers twice and some of those other guys may have made the top 10 last year, but they need to prove they can do the same thing again. Wentz looked the part in 2017, and then faltered trying to reach that level again.

Hurts could end up failing or succeeding. I'm just not so consumed with a prediction that I'm going to dedicate 95% of my posts to one. But you keep on being you.

 

 

Full of my self or full of facts. PFF had him 11th, but has him as the worst deep ball QB in the league and he wasn't top 20 in completion percentage, touchdowns, or yards. These are facts and their ranking was an opinion that was head scratching for many with all the other facts out there. Murray, Jackson, and Allen are the much better versions of Hurts. Hurts is the dollar store version at this point of his career. Your looking for a growth spurt that doesn't match the trait set. Allen turning it around was a surprise in one aspect, but his production since it really shocked nobody because it matches his traits. Jackson may be the best comparison of how to turn around from being inaccurate because he came back and threw for 36 touchdowns and a completion percentage of 66.1%  and still used his legs, but zero of you ever bring him up as an example....wanna know why? The style of his play scares the crap out of you and it's not what you are looking for. So why do you want a QB with a weaker skill set but very similar games than the guy you don't want... Like it makes no sense whatsoever. Hurts isn't efficient enough passer in any point of his career to play with anyone above him. And bringing up pro bowl alternate is hilarious. That makes you the scab of the great players. He wasn't a pro bowler, he was the after thought. 

[brkmsn]

58 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Full of my self or full of facts.  

Read that again. I said "sure" of yourself. 

[Shalodeep]

16 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Read that again. I said "sure" of yourself. 

Oh. I'm sure in the facts and comparisons I have posted. Thank you for pointing that out. Now if you don't mind, go back and read what I put again and see if anything sets in or come up with a better set of facts and comparisons so we can continue this. I enjoy seeing how far you guys will reach to defend this guy 

[brkmsn]

39 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Oh. I'm sure in the facts and comparisons I have posted. Thank you for pointing that out. Now if you don't mind, go back and read what I put again and see if anything sets in or come up with a better set of facts and comparisons so we can continue this. I enjoy seeing how far you guys will reach to defend this guy 

It's not some kind of competition. I just like to argue with people that pretend to know the future. 

[Shalodeep]

36 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

It's not some kind of competition. I just like to argue with people that pretend to know the future. 

Do I know he will fail? No. Do I find it improbable he will be the one guy to overcome his inadequacy in the passing game enough to remain a viable starter due to everything he has shown since his days in Alabama? Yes.  Weirder things have happened in the NFL. But probability a QB works out is rare with elite ability.... now imagine that probability with a guy with average skills...people are relying on him being a try hard and being likeable to overcome below average passing abilities. Glad he has his friend and all, but I still don't trust him against a team who can score because he hasn't shown the ability to throw his way back into a game. it would be awesome for the organization for me to be wrong. Hell I would welcome it, but I won't lie to myself about what's on tape. He isn't very good at what makes a QB good. He had 8 first round picks during his college career catch for him and he may have to adjust to dudes not being so wide open so often again...or maybe that's all he has. Who knows....but I know if I had to put money down, I'd say he hits the bench for a few games this year due to injury or performance, and chances are it will take time for him to get the job back 

And it's not arguing. This is a discussion board. It's for fans to talk about the future and thoughts of how this all plays out. If you think this is arguing then this is far more important to you than me lol

[ManchesterEagle]

22 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

So you expect him to throw enough attempts to get to 4000 without any negative returns? When I think of Jalen, I think 25 or less attempts for success 

The Eagles are going to throw more with a much better and more experienced WR group. That coupled with Jalen having another year in the system should mean he should have some success throwing around 30 times. If he can’t do that he’s not the guy.

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

The Eagles are going to throw more with a much better and more experienced WR group. That coupled with Jalen having another year in the system should mean he should have some success throwing around 30 times. If he can’t do that he’s not the guy.

We will definitely see. Plenty of talent to get there. I don't think it was as bad as many people say last year with Smith, Ertz/Goedert, Watkins, and Gainwell. That's not all world, but I feel most QBs ranked above Hurts would of been able to get more out of them with that line. We will see. I think he starts hot and falls off a cliff going into the bye. Maybe he keeps it up and make life easier for us all ... Just would be the biggest turn around I've seen in my life with these level of traits.

[ManchesterEagle]

50 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

We will definitely see. Plenty of talent to get there. I don't think it was as bad as many people say last year with Smith, Ertz/Goedert, Watkins, and Gainwell. That's not all world, but I feel most QBs ranked above Hurts would of been able to get more out of them with that line. We will see. I think he starts hot and falls off a cliff going into the bye. Maybe he keeps it up and make life easier for us all ... Just would be the biggest turn around I've seen in my life with these level of traits.

No - the pass catching group wasn’t awful, far from it. But there was a lot of pressure on Smith. Not every first round receiver does well, far from it. Jefferson and Chase both had strong support in their rookie years. Reagor was also a major part of offense.

The O-Line was really good, but they did struggle with blitz readings at times. Hurts also helps as rushers have to be disciplined.

Don’t get me wrong - Hurts needs to get better. But the Eagles didn’t bring in Brown just to block. They are going to increase the passing. Let’s see how he handles it.

[opa-opa]

Whether Hurts will get to 4000 yards or not will also depend on Siriani. If Hurts gets into a losing streak, he might decide to go back to running the ball 30 times again. And then we will end back here exactly where we started.

[Shalodeep]

12 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

No - the pass catching group wasn’t awful, far from it. But there was a lot of pressure on Smith. Not every first round receiver does well, far from it. Jefferson and Chase both had strong support in their rookie years. Reagor was also a major part of offense.

The O-Line was really good, but they did struggle with blitz readings at times. Hurts also helps as rushers have to be disciplined.

Don’t get me wrong - Hurts needs to get better. But the Eagles didn’t bring in Brown just to block. They are going to increase the passing. Let’s see how he handles it.

I'm more curious if the leagues just copies the Bucs and forces Jalen completely out of the comfort zone he has had since college. If he is able to take advantage of the 1v1s, he may break 4k...or a leg. 

[CouchKing]

56 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I'm more curious if the leagues just copies the Bucs and forces Jalen completely out of the comfort zone he has had since college. If he is able to take advantage of the 1v1s, he may break 4k...or a leg. 

Why would any team not copy that defensive scheme / game plan against Hurts? 

Hurts needs to prove he can beat it / take what the defense is giving him.

And, beating that defensive scheme is also on the OC.

[Shalodeep]

10 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

Why would any team not copy that defensive scheme / game plan against Hurts? 

Hurts needs to prove he can beat it / take what the defense is giving him.

And, beating that defensive scheme is also on the OC.

Because you need to have the talent and the discipline to do so aka playoff level defense. Not every team can copy and paste that level of discipline. If Jalen has grown to an actual QB, those wide open throws he never even attempted will be hit and knock teams out of the scheme. I don't see it happening because he really never was that guy, but September isn't far off now and we will figure this out this year....I feel like we said the same thing last year /sigh

[ManchesterEagle]

7 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

I'm more curious if the leagues just copies the Bucs and forces Jalen completely out of the comfort zone he has had since college. If he is able to take advantage of the 1v1s, he may break 4k...or a leg. 

 

6 hours ago, CouchKing said:

Why would any team not copy that defensive scheme / game plan against Hurts? 

Hurts needs to prove he can beat it / take what the defense is giving him.

And, beating that defensive scheme is also on the OC.

Hurts sucked against the Bucs. But I'm not buying they found a magic way to beat him. Hurts last year at times looked good passing the football, even though the majority of this board think he is Tebow. He also mostly moved the ball well, particularly on 3rd downs. But he needs to improve. Another year in the same system and a really good set of weapons gives him the opportunity. I'm just open to the idea that he could take a big enough step up to be in the future QB discussions.

[Shalodeep]

7 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Because you need to have the talent and the discipline to do so aka playoff level defense. Not every team can copy and paste that level of discipline. If Jalen has grown to an actual QB, those wide open throws he never even attempted will be hit and knock teams out of the scheme. I don't see it happening because he really never was that guy, but September isn't far off now and we will figure this out this year....I feel like we said the same thing last year /sigh

 

38 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Hurts sucked against the Bucs. But I'm not buying they found a magic way to beat him. Hurts last year at times looked good passing the football, even though the majority of this board think he is Tebow. He also mostly moved the ball well, particularly on 3rd downs. But he needs to improve. Another year in the same system and a really good set of weapons gives him the opportunity. I'm just open to the idea that he could take a big enough step up to be in the future QB discussions.

 

[ManchesterEagle]

6 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

 

 

Watch his highlights v the Broncos. They are a legit D. 

[Shalodeep]

4 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Watch his highlights v the Broncos. They are a legit D. 

178 yards 2tds, 1nt 69% completion. ... It's a good at best performance. It's not a game I would point at and say that's the reason he needs a chance. Davis Mills had far better QB game against the chargers in week 16 254 2/0 77.7% but nobody thinks he is the second coming ....

[ManchesterEagle]

5 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

178 yards 2tds, 1nt 69% completion. ... It's a good at best performance. It's not a game I would point at and say that's the reason he needs a chance. Davis Mills had far better QB game against the chargers in week 16 254 2/0 77.7% but nobody thinks he is the second coming ....

Watch it - don't reel off the stats. Hurts tore them apart in the first half. Watkins dropped a beautifully thrown 30 yard dime in the endzone just before half time. Then they stopped throwing as the game was out of hand. 

Hurts needs to get better at reads and anticipation and his deep ball was horrible last year. But his arm is actually pretty good, as is his short to intermediate accuracy. If he can make strides on his weaknesses we may have a shot. Let's hope he does.

[Shalodeep]

6 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Watch it - don't reel off the stats. Hurts tore them apart in the first half. Watkins dropped a beautifully thrown 30 yard dime in the endzone just before half time. Then they stopped throwing as the game was out of hand. 

Hurts needs to get better at reads and anticipation and his deep ball was horrible last year. But his arm is actually pretty good, as is his short to intermediate accuracy. If he can make strides on his weaknesses we may have a shot. Let's hope he does.

I actually hope he does because overhauling this team would be a lot easier if we weren't sending 2-3 high drafts picks to start over. His deep ball is the worst and his ability to go through his reads is extremely limited. He was so damn inconsistent that I trust him very little to become anything more than marginally better. 

[Mike030270]

11 hours ago, opa-opa said:

Whether Hurts will get to 4000 yards or not will also depend on Siriani. If Hurts gets into a losing streak, he might decide to go back to running the ball 30 times again. And then we will end back here exactly where we started.

Nick isn't calling the plays anymore

[Bwestbrook36]

12 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Nick isn't calling the plays anymore

So the guy that called the second half of last year is.... Starting the year calling plays, so that would imply they plan on running more in the first half? I'm just asking a genuine question because I don't know what they are going to do now. 

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

So the guy that called the second half of last year is.... Starting the year calling plays, so that would imply they plan on running more in the first half? I'm just asking a genuine question because I don't know what they are going to do now. 

It would definitely imply that he is willing to bail on the air game if necessary. 

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

So the guy that called the second half of last year is.... Starting the year calling plays, so that would imply they plan on running more in the first half? I'm just asking a genuine question because I don't know what they are going to do now. 

I think they are going to see where they are offensively and and do whatever this team is capable of doing well. That's what we did last year and what we will continue to do.