The official Hurts/Minshew/Stinnett/Strong/EJ Perry containment thread

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

I think they are going to see where they are offensively and and do whatever this team is capable of doing well. That's what we did last year and what we will continue to do. 

We WILL do or should do? I thought you didn't like people who act like they know the future? What should be done is act like an NFL team and if the QB can't do it, replace him. Too much talent around him to fail if he is any good 

[brkmsn]

8 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

We WILL do or should do? I thought you didn't like people who act like they know the future? What should be done is act like an NFL team and if the QB can't do it, replace him. Too much talent around him to fail if he is any good 

It's pretty routine English I'm using. I said, "I think..." and I backed up my "thought" with evidence based on the philosophy of this team (under this coaching staff) which is to take advantage of the team's strengths. I'm not sure if I hurt your feelings before or something, but you seem to be trying awful hard to put me in my place. I never stated, " I didn't like people who act like they know the future." I said I don't pretend to know the future --- usually in rebuttal to arguments that claim a certain player or player type will never accomplish a certain thing. The thing I see the most when discussing things with you is that you have made certain claims and predictions and most of your discussion is focused around doubling down on those predictions. Whatever floats your boat ... 

When the season begins, I'll be rooting for the team to win like always. I don't fear the unknown nor do I fear slippery slopes. I don't have to expect and predict bad things to happen just so I can feel joy by either being right (and saying, "I told you so" ) or being wrong (and pleasantly surprised). Studies have proven that optimists live longer (on average) than pessimists. I figure the reason is so the pessimist can say, "I told you so" in an epic fashion. Have fun with it!

[Mike030270]

11 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

It would definitely imply that he is willing to bail on the air game if necessary. 

Lurie wants a passing offense though

[PhillyMG]

2 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Lurie wants a passing offense though

It is a passing league so of course an owner wants a passing offense.  But to implement a passing offense you need, you know, someone who can effectively pass the ball...which the Eagles don't have or should I say, aren't starting.

[Bwestbrook36]

3 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Lurie wants a passing offense though

He makes some moves that are head scratchers knowing this.... 

[Shalodeep]

11 hours ago, brkmsn said:

It's pretty routine English I'm using. I said, "I think..." and I backed up my "thought" with evidence based on the philosophy of this team (under this coaching staff) which is to take advantage of the team's strengths. I'm not sure if I hurt your feelings before or something, but you seem to be trying awful hard to put me in my place. I never stated, " I didn't like people who act like they know the future." I said I don't pretend to know the future --- usually in rebuttal to arguments that claim a certain player or player type will never accomplish a certain thing. The thing I see the most when discussing things with you is that you have made certain claims and predictions and most of your discussion is focused around doubling down on those predictions. Whatever floats your boat ... 

When the season begins, I'll be rooting for the team to win like always. I don't fear the unknown nor do I fear slippery slopes. I don't have to expect and predict bad things to happen just so I can feel joy by either being right (and saying, "I told you so" ) or being wrong (and pleasantly surprised). Studies have proven that optimists live longer (on average) than pessimists. I figure the reason is so the pessimist can say, "I told you so" in an epic fashion. Have fun with it!

You have been quoting me often for the whole offseason and counter arguing my post lol definitely not hurt feelings. This is called discussion on a discussion board. If you quote anyone over and over and ignore pretty much every stat and example they post only to respond with snarky gotcha college like responses and almost no actual football backing in your responses, eventually you will get those responses back. I have been able to show up to this point he has been a very ineffective thrower of the football and that there is a rare history of QBs with non elite traits and bad accuracy turning it all around and becoming a top end QB. I have shown and explained how using Wilson and Allen as comparison don't really work due to ones elite traits being off the charts and the other having to have his own scheme to succeed, tremendous deep ball accuracy, and only real success was with an all time defense ..and all you have returned with is "I can compare who I want" and then giving weak ass reasons they are alike at best. You aren't actually good at debating, but I keep answering because maybe there is an actual good reason in there other than he's cheap and you're an optimistic person. I am now accepting that you don't have anything other than that and will drop it. The day you have a better example than the Denver game, I'll chat. Until then remember mid to late 20 rankings in yards, touchdowns, and completion percentage doesn't equal 11th best QB. Oh and QBs who try to be power backs don't have long careers. Ask Wentz what powering through tackles does to ones knee.

[Shalodeep]

10 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Lurie wants a passing offense though

And their response was to get the QBs best friend and hope for the best. Brown is pretty damn good, but will be playing with a much less effective passer of the football and will be sharing the field with a few pretty good young pass catchers themselves. I don't think this one signing will compensate for the QBs inability to QB 

[CouchKing]

They better get Hurts some live reps in spring training. He needs practice making reads and spreading the ball around.

No need for Hurts to tuck and run for preseason 1st downs. He’s gotta throw the ball  to a receiver or throw it away.

I don’t expect a competition. It almost doesn’t matter what the other guys do.

Minshew and Strong could put on a clinic, but there’s about a 1000% probability that Hurts starts no matter what.

[Shalodeep]

3 hours ago, CouchKing said:

They better get Hurts some live reps in spring training. He needs practice making reads and spreading the ball around.

No need for Hurts to tuck and run for preseason 1st downs. He’s gotta throw the ball  to a receiver or throw it away.

I don’t expect a competition. It almost doesn’t matter what the other guys do.

Minshew and Strong could put on a clinic, but there’s about a 1000% probability that Hurts starts no matter what.

They handed him the job last year and never planned on anyone else getting a shot at it. If in an open competition, he would probably end up second in the depth chart until next season, and would end up third if just measured by passing ability 

[eglz1]

On 6/24/2022 at 5:47 AM, Bwestbrook36 said:

So the guy that called the second half of last year is.... Starting the year calling plays, so that would imply they plan on running more in the first half? I'm just asking a genuine question because I don't know what they are going to do now. 

Their passing game the first half of the year was pretty sorry. It looks like Steichen recognized that and tried something else. At least they recognized that what they were doing wasn't working and tried something else. That hasn't always been the case.

[brkmsn]

8 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

... almost no actual football backing in your responses, eventually you will get those responses back. I have been able to show up to this point he has been a very ineffective thrower of the football and that there is a rare history of QBs with non elite traits and bad accuracy turning it all around and becoming a top end QB.

I have repeatedly offered football backing, but you disqualify everything. You bring up "history," but if ( so much as use history as an example, your "team" will fire back with, "you can't compare QBs from two different eras." I wholeheartedly disagree with that notion. When McNabb was a young starter, regardless of what was happening around the league, you still had a young, dual-threat QB that was fed a condensed play book. Andy Reid kept McNabb in a car seat for almost 4 years. When Cunningham was a young, dual-threat QB, Buddy told him to bail on the play and use his feet. Regardless of the eras they played in, both those examples were players expected to do limited things while they gained experience. The experience helped them become better players in time. 

Now, even if you acknowledge that similarities can still exist regardless of era, you're next counter will be that Cunningham and McNabb had elite arm talent and Hurts has none --- so they still can't be compared. First,  I disagree with the claim that Hurts lacks arm talent. I feel he has shown arm talent, but not consistency. It is my belief that he will get more consistent with more time. But when you look at Cunningham and McNabb, neither guy was known for tremendous accuracy, but both did improve over their early starts. And if you want "history" as proof, that's a trend with virtually every QB that carved out a career as a starter. 

When you talk about "elite traits," It doesn't appear that every trait matters to you. The most important "elite trait" in my opinion is the desire to keep getting better. That's why guys like Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Tom Brady had the success they did and why Vick never fully lived up to his potential and why JaMarcus  Russell was a major bust. 

 

8 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

 I have shown and explained how using Wilson and Allen as comparison don't really work due to ones elite traits being off the charts and the other having to have his own scheme to succeed, tremendous deep ball accuracy, and only real success was with an all time defense 

Of course what you have offered is just your opinion. A comparison is a comparison. We can't compare Allen's 3rd season to Hurts' 3rd season until Hurts has a 3rd season. Even in your own words, I don't see why we can't compare Hurts to Wilson if you're reason against it is because Wilson needs his own system and a good defense to succeed. That's more than likely something we may see from the Eagles. Our offensive system last year was in large part due to Hurts and where he was as a player. But it was just as much a product of trying to mask our defensive deficiencies. It was a ball control offense that gave this whole team it's best chance to win last year. It's fair when comparing players to also compare differences. I don't know if Hurts will ever become as good a deep passer as Wilson, but I do believe he can improve to become an adequate deep passer. If you look at Wilson's deep passes in air yards and Hurts' as well, their distance is pretty equal. Wilson, though, makes that decision to pass the ball sooner which doesn't allow defenders time to recover. 

 

9 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

 You aren't actually good at debating, but I keep answering because maybe there is an actual good reason in there other than he's cheap and you're an optimistic person. I am now accepting that you don't have anything other than that and will drop it.

... It's not the first time you claimed you were "done" with me.

 

9 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Oh and QBs who try to be power backs don't have long careers. Ask Wentz what powering through tackles does to ones knee.

That must be how Tom Brady tore his knee up. And Cunningham. And McNabb. Don't forget what happened to Theismann and Alex Smith ... 

 

[CouchKing]

If Hurts doesn't play in the preseason, he will miss out on valuable game reps with his receivers. Bad decision. Hurts needs to play more. Not less.

Minshew and Strong will look awesome in the preseason, reading defenses, spreading the ball around.

When Hurts plays, the receivers won't get as many touches and his runningbacks don't get to score any touchdowns. Hurts hogs the ball in the red zone.

Won't be long before Hurts' teammates look forward to the day he is gone.

[brkmsn]

11 hours ago, CouchKing said:

If Hurts doesn't play in the preseason, he will miss out on valuable game reps with his receivers. Bad decision. Hurts needs to play more. Not less.

Minshew and Strong will look awesome in the preseason, reading defenses, spreading the ball around.

When Hurts plays, the receivers won't get as many touches and his runningbacks don't get to score any touchdowns. Hurts hogs the ball in the red zone.

Won't be long before Hurts' teammates look forward to the day he is gone.

We should always treat the preseason as an opportunity to get our starters ready for the season with some game snaps (as opposed to practice or joint practice snaps where the contact is limited). But it should be like most teams --- Give them about a quarter in the 1st game, a half in the second and no more than a couple series in the final preseason game. 

We have no idea how the backup QBs will look. If Hurts isn't playing, that means we'll probably be resting the starting O-line and WRs too. 

If Hurts does play in the preseason, it will be a vanilla passing offense, not representative of what our game plan will actually be in a real game. 

If the team is winning games, most players will be happy. The chemistry on this team isn't dysfunctional.

 

[CouchKing]

16 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

We should always treat the preseason as an opportunity to get our starters ready for the season with some game snaps (as opposed to practice or joint practice snaps where the contact is limited). But it should be like most teams --- Give them about a quarter in the 1st game, a half in the second and no more than a couple series in the final preseason game. 

We have no idea how the backup QBs will look. If Hurts isn't playing, that means we'll probably be resting the starting O-line and WRs too. 

If Hurts does play in the preseason, it will be a vanilla passing offense, not representative of what our game plan will actually be in a real game. 

If the team is winning games, most players will be happy. The chemistry on this team isn't dysfunctional.

 

Marquise "Hollywood" Brown wanted out of Baltimore because he didn't like playing in the system with Lamar Jackson.

Same thing is gonna happen here.

[brkmsn]

44 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

Marquise "Hollywood" Brown wanted out of Baltimore because he didn't like playing in the system with Lamar Jackson.

Same thing is gonna happen here.

Are we planning to bring in Marquise Brown?

 

[CouchKing]

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Receivers wanna make the ESPN highlights. They want the spotlight. And, they wanna win big in the playoffs.

Underachieving, run first QBs that can't get them the ball are not the answer.

Lamar Jackson doesn't win in the playoffs and neither does Hurts. 

[eglz1]

On 6/24/2022 at 9:21 PM, PhillyMG said:

It is a passing league so of course an owner wants a passing offense.  But to implement a passing offense you need, you know, someone who can effectively pass the ball...which the Eagles don't have or should I say, aren't starting.

They tried featuring the passing game last year. After 7 games it wasn't working so they switched gears and that worked better. I expect they'll try the same thing again this year. If the passing game doesn't work for a second year in a row having acquired A J. Brown and Smith's second year, we'll see what they do.

[KDUB1510]

3 hours ago, eglz1 said:

They tried featuring the passing game last year. After 7 games it wasn't working so they switched gears and that worked better. I expect they'll try the same thing again this year. If the passing game doesn't work for a second year in a row having acquired A J. Brown and Smith's second year, we'll see what they do.

Hopefully they stick with it and allow Hurts to throw us to a top 12 pick. I dont want to sneak into the playoffs just to get annihilated again. Rather be put in better position to get our next QB if Hurts cant cut it as a passer.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, KDUB1510 said:

Hopefully they stick with it and allow Hurts to throw us to a top 12 pick. I dont want to sneak into the playoffs just to get annihilated again. Rather be put in better position to get our next QB if Hurts cant cut it as a passer.

I will guarantee the Saints pick will be lower than the Eagles.  I think they can win 10-11 games, and have the Eagles winning 9.

[KDUB1510]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

I will guarantee the Saints pick will be lower than the Eagles.  I think they can win 10-11 games, and have the Eagles winning 9.

I think so too. Saints own tampa and will probably sweep CAR & ATL. Their schedule is tough but they still have an excellent defense and i think Ingram can hold down the fort until Kamara returns. Michael Thomas and Winston are the x factors for me. If they're both healthy i could definitely see the saints winning double digit games.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, KDUB1510 said:

I think so too. Saints own tampa and will probably sweep CAR & ATL. Their schedule is tough but they still have an excellent defense and i think Ingram can hold down the fort until Kamara returns. Michael Thomas and Winston are the x factors for me. If they're both healthy i could definitely see the saints winning double digit games.

Winston has weapons with Thoms, Landry and Olave

[KDUB1510]

15 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Winston has weapons with Thoms, Landry and Olave

yep. I've seen quite a few people rank him below Jalen and i dont get it. He was playing really well before he got injured last year. Yeah he threw 30 INT's that one year but he also threw 33 TD's with over 5100 yards which is two things i dont ever see Hurts accomplishing. Saints still have a solid Oline as well. If they're healthy when we play them, i think they get their first win against Hurts. 

[eglz1]

18 minutes ago, KDUB1510 said:

Hopefully they stick with it and allow Hurts to throw us to a top 12 pick. I dont want to sneak into the playoffs just to get annihilated again. Rather be put in better position to get our next QB if Hurts cant cut it as a passer.

It might be worse to win a playoff game by the hair of our chinny-chin-chin only to get annihilated in the next playoff game. But but but we won a playoff game!!!! My hero rushed for a 181 yards a la Kaep at Green Bay!!!  Super Bowlzzz next year!!!! And don't even make the playoffs next year.

[KDUB1510]

4 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

It might be worse to win a playoff game by the hair of our chinny-chin-chin only to get annihilated in the next playoff game. But but but we won a playoff game!!!! My hero rushed for a 181 yards a la Kaep at Green Bay!!!  Super Bowlzzz next year!!!! And don't even make the playoffs next year.

Honestly If there's a chance we might win a playoff game then ill take it over not making the playoffs. I just dont want to get destroyed in the first round and look like we dont belong like last year. That bucs defense was not that great. Hurts made them look that way because he "cant read". Quez should've had a monster game and DeVonta should've had atleast 1 TD. Stafford lit those dudes up the very next week en route to a victory. 

[CouchKing]

For all you Carson Strong haters.

Joe Willie Namath injured his knee in the 4th game of his senior year at Alabama.

Limped through the Orange Bowl and to a National Title.

Drafted 12th overall by St Louis of the NFL. And 1st overall by the NY Jets of the AFL.

Started his career in 1965 with Jets.

Had knee surgery in 1966.

Played 13 years.

Had 4 knee surgeries throughout his career.

Won SuperBowl III.

So, don't write off Carson Strong just yet.