2 hours ago, vsptroops said:

All the "good ones" are in the lower levels. Honestly, if someone is willing to bite on either Painter or Miller, I would dump them. One guy is 6'6 but pitches like he's 5'10 and the other one has a chronic, balky back. Would a GM take a chance on either one? I guess but you would have to hope there is a GM dumber than Dumbrowski out there. Guy has been here 6 seasons now and 6 seasons later, they don't have anyone in their Triple AAA to help with the big-league club. The Braves and Dodgers lose a guy, and they bring up someone from their farm and don't miss a beat. Freakin pathetic.

Someone would take a chance at miller considering he’s still considered a top 25 prospect in baseball by most scouting resources and yet to play this year. So team likely missing the playoffs and in a rebuild would take that chance on him. Add on his "surgery” to fix the issue is non-invasive. My dad had this he was back after 6 weeks feeling great and hasn’t had an issue with his back in 10 years. Issue is they should’ve done this knowing it was likely instead of rehab like they did with painter a couple seasons back.

That said doubt the Phillies deal him as you are likely not getting a RH bat you need. Everyone mentions Buxton but it’s been leaked he really doesn’t want to leave Minnesota even with all their turmoil and issues. Add on he’s 32 going on 33 and injury prone. So a chance you get him and he’s hurt. Trout isn’t realistic as they aren’t taking on that money unless angels eat a significant amount which would cost a high level prospect which doubt the Phillies do that either.

The two things I’ve mentioned before, the right handed bat everybody wants doesn’t actually exist on the market right now. there’s too many teams involved in the wildcard and across baseball there’s a lack of right handed hitters to be made available (particularly outfield) that are above average that can really change the lineup the Phillies have. Best option might be Christian Walker who plays 1B/Dh which means moving Harper back to RF. He’s also 35 and is owed for 2027. Having a platoon of Garcia/Crawford in LF with marsh in CF. Phillies been reluctant to move Harper back to OF. IMO Phillies need 2 bats. OF and either 3B upgrade with someone like arenado or moving Marte to 3B. but the dbacks are still currently in the WC expecting Burnes back late August so if they are in it at the deadline they are dealing them even if Marte is pissing them off by taking days off without informing them until day of game.

Really the lack of farm options at double and triple A goes to the point I made that Dombrowski wasted so much money on bad contracts or bad addition. some of these prospects that would be in AA and AAA that you could call up and/or potentially help in another deal are gone to make up for mistakes and fix holes that Dave did poorly the last 3 years. I’d add the Phillies don’t exactly have great developing/coaching at those 2 levels. In the last 3 years Sánchez hit but really he was all over the place in triple A and wasn’t until cotham got working with him that his command got better. As for hitters Crawford, Clemens, Marchan and Rojas are about the only two that stuck for prolong periods of time on the Phillies. 2 of those guys can’t hit at all

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Someone would take a chance at miller considering he’s still considered a top 25 prospect in baseball by most scouting resources and yet to play this year. So team likely missing the playoffs and in a rebuild would take that chance on him. Add on his "surgery” to fix the issue is non-invasive. My dad had this he was back after 6 weeks feeling great and hasn’t had an issue with his back in 10 years. Issue is they should’ve done this knowing it was likely instead of rehab like they did with painter a couple seasons back.

That said doubt the Phillies deal him as you are likely not getting a RH bat you need. Everyone mentions Buxton but it’s been leaked he really doesn’t want to leave Minnesota even with all their turmoil and issues. Add on he’s 32 going on 33 and injury prone. So a chance you get him and he’s hurt. Trout isn’t realistic as they aren’t taking on that money unless angels eat a significant amount which would cost a high level prospect which doubt the Phillies do that either.

The two things I’ve mentioned before, the right handed bat everybody wants doesn’t actually exist on the market right now. there’s too many teams involved in the wildcard and across baseball there’s a lack of right handed hitters to be made available (particularly outfield) that are above average that can really change the lineup the Phillies have. Best option might be Christian Walker who plays 1B/Dh which means moving Harper back to RF. He’s also 35 and is owed for 2027. Having a platoon of Garcia/Crawford in LF with marsh in CF. Phillies been reluctant to move Harper back to OF. IMO Phillies need 2 bats. OF and either 3B upgrade with someone like arenado or moving Marte to 3B. but the dbacks are still currently in the WC expecting Burnes back late August so if they are in it at the deadline they are dealing them even if Marte is pissing them off by taking days off without informing them until day of game.

Really the lack of farm options at double and triple A goes to the point I made that Dombrowski wasted so much money on bad contracts or bad addition. some of these prospects that would be in AA and AAA that you could call up and/or potentially help in another deal are gone to make up for mistakes and fix holes that Dave did poorly the last 3 years.

I respect your opinion and baseball knowledge but disagree with you so heavily about the youth of this franchise. The best young player/prospect in the entire franchise right now is a negative WAR center fielder. It is impossible to say enough bad things about their MLB youth, farm system, how they’ve handled their farm system, the players currently in it, or the misplaced hype of recent and current prospects.

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I respect your opinion and baseball knowledge but disagree with you so heavily about the youth of this franchise. The best young player/prospect in the entire franchise right now is a negative WAR center fielder. It is impossible to say enough bad things about their MLB youth, farm system, how they’ve handled their farm system, the players currently in it, or the misplaced hype of recent and current prospects.

When did I say they had a good farm system of young player or great at developing their players? The fact that all of baseball has Aiden Miller still as a top 25 prospect tells you how MLB scouts/people who get paid to scout all 30 teams prospects feel about him. That’s not just the Phillies. you keep making this how I feel or the Phillies feel this way and viewed him in a light. no guys who scout the entire MLB on multiple platforms that has him ranked that high. This is not just the Phillies organization. The Phillies say crap like he’s Mike Schmidt prospect which is dumb to begin with cause Mike Schmidt is a unicorn. That said the scouting on Miller isn’t just the Phillies. the majority of people who scout prospect, watched 30 franchises scouts and baseball believe in him that way. this is not just what the Phillies believe internally. this is what majority of guys covering and scouting MLB is telling what they saw and future projections.

So you should be upset at more than Phillies, as the MLB guys who scout for the entire 30 teams are telling you this. So you should be questioning baseball scouts and mlb Scouting of Aiden Miller because it’s not just the Phillies. He doesn’t get ranked in the top 100 prospects for MLB just because of what the Phillies are putting out there. These are guys that scout all 30 franchises and farm teams based of what they’ve seen throughout baseball with prospects.

we can say they were wrong on painter, feels kind of early to just make that definitive statement because it’s been 12 starts but currently doesn’t look good. But they also made that projection of what he was prior to his TJ so unfortunately we will never know what he would’ve been what he wouldn’t have been based off that. Even so painter still had good value after he had TJ prior to returning. It is why teams kept asking for him in bigger deals. So I have to believe Aidan Miller (who doesn’t have nearly as bad of a surgery) probably still has good value around the league as they are consistently still ranking him high (like painter) and likely going to be asked for in a bigger deal.

I would add this cause I didn’t respond you to the other night about graduating from double/triple A. Cole Hamels had 3 starts in AA and 3 starts in AAA before he got called up here. He was terrible his first 12 mlb starts. He also had a back issue in the minors. Without him we don’t win the 08 WS but based on what’s on here he should’ve been gone long before getting to 08 after 12 starts along with having a back issues in the minors. Nola only had 6 starts in AAA before he got called up. Had a 9.82 era his last 8 starts his rookie year. Ya he was real bad at the end of his first year. Sanchez got called up twice by the Phillies when he wasn’t very good in triple A those years. In 2021 he had a 4.68 ERA with 48 walks in 73 innings. (Was good in 2022 triple A (3.14) but lousy up in the majors (5.63 ERA)). In 2023 he had a 4.35 era with 29 walks in 49 innings. He had a big control issue. Second time (not great in triple A but 3rd call up to Phillies) he actually hit cause Cotham worked with his command when he got called up and the made tweaks to his stuff and added to his repertoire. I’d also point out Chase Utley in his first 70 games as a Phillie was not Chase utley we all knew. He had flashes but his slashes were .233/.294/.400/.694. His SLG was about the only thing that was considered above avg. His AVG and OBP were slightly better than Crawford ( 59 games for Crawford .230/.291… Crawford is never going to hit for power so his SLG is always going to hurt him).

I point out. This isn’t just the Phillies either. Nolan McLean who was the Mets best pitching prospect just had a 7 game stretch with an ERA of 5.73 era and back to back games giving up 7 and 6 ERs. It’s because he has up til then around 19 starts. There’s a selected few mlb rookies that just are great and never look back when they get called up. Unfortunately most don’t.

This is not telling you that these guys are going to be good prospects. They could just be bust or with time they could develop into being better prospects. unlike the NFL rookies (except for your Paul skenes, Andruw Jones, pujols types (a very selected few who hit the ground running and don’t have ups and downs)) don’t generally make the type of impact guys like a Dejean or Q make as a rookie where can change the entire outcome of the teams. It’s because most aren’t ready when they get called up and you are living with inconsistencies until they get more time and experience. Which goes back to if Dave spent the money better (we are wasting about 70-80 mil), you wouldn’t have to hope rookies play like a Q or dejean which id argue more rare at the mlb level.

48 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

When did I say they had a good farm system of young player or great at developing their players? The fact that all of baseball has Aiden Miller still as a top 25 prospect tells you how MLB scouts/people who get paid to scout all 30 teams prospects feel about him. That’s not just the Phillies. you keep making this how I feel or the Phillies feel this way and viewed him in a light. no guys who scout the entire MLB on multiple platforms that has him ranked that high. This is not just the Phillies organization. The Phillies say crap like he’s Mike Schmidt prospect which is dumb to begin with cause Mike Schmidt is a unicorn. That said the scouting on Miller isn’t just the Phillies. the majority of people who scout prospect, watched 30 franchises scouts and baseball believe in him that way. this is not just what the Phillies believe internally. this is what majority of guys covering and scouting MLB is telling what they saw and future projections.

So you should be upset at more than Phillies, as the MLB guys who scout for the entire 30 teams are telling you this. So you should be questioning baseball scouts and mlb Scouting of Aiden Miller because it’s not just the Phillies. He doesn’t get ranked in the top 100 prospects for MLB just because of what the Phillies are putting out there. These are guys that scout all 30 franchises and farm teams based of what they’ve seen throughout baseball with prospects.

we can say they were wrong on painter, feels kind of early to just make that definitive statement because it’s been 12 starts but currently doesn’t look good. But they also made that projection of what he was prior to his TJ so unfortunately we will never know what he would’ve been what he wouldn’t have been based off that. Even so painter still had good value after he had TJ prior to returning. It is why teams kept asking for him in bigger deals. So I have to believe Aidan Miller (who doesn’t have nearly as bad of a surgery) probably still has good value around the league as they are consistently still ranking him high (like painter) and likely going to be asked for in a bigger deal.

I would add this cause I didn’t respond you to the other night about graduating from double/triple A. Cole Hamels had 3 starts in AA and 3 starts in AAA before he got called up here. He was terrible his first 12 mlb starts. He also had a back issue in the minors. Without him we don’t win the 08 WS but based on what’s on here he should’ve been gone long before getting to 08 after 12 starts along with having a back issues in the minors. Nola only had 6 starts in AAA before he got called up. Had a 9.82 era his last 8 starts his rookie year. Ya he was real bad at the end of his first year. Sanchez got called up twice by the Phillies when he wasn’t very good in triple A those years. In 2021 he had a 4.68 ERA with 48 walks in 73 innings. (Was good in 2022 triple A (3.14) but lousy up in the majors (5.63 ERA)). In 2023 he had a 4.35 era with 29 walks in 49 innings. He had a big control issue. Second time he actually hit cause Cotham worked with his command when he got called up and the made tweaks to his stuff and added to his repertoire. Let me also point out Chase Utley in his first 70 games as a Phillie was not Chase utley we all knew. He had flashes but his slashes were .233/.294/.400/.694. His SLG was about the only thing that was considered above avg. His AVG and OBP is slightly better than Crawford ( 59 games for Crawford… Crawford is never going to hit for power so his SLG is always going to hurt him).

I point out. This isn’t just the Phillies either. Nolan McLean who was the Mets best pitching prospect just had a 7 game stretch with an ERA of 5.73 era and back to back games giving up 7 and 6 ERs. It’s because he has up til then around 19 starts. There’s a selected few mlb rookies that just are great and never look back when they get called up. Unfortunately most don’t.

This is not telling you that these guys are going to be good prospects. They could just be bust or with time they could develop into being better prospects. unlike the NFL rookies (except for your Paul skenes, Andruw Jones, pujols types (a very selected few who hit the ground running and don’t have ups and downs)) don’t generally make the type of impact guys like a Dejean or Q make as a rookie where can change the entire outcome of the teams. It’s because most aren’t ready when they get called up and you are living with inconsistencies until they get more time and experience. Which goes back to if Dave spent the money better (we are wasting about 70-80 mil), you wouldn’t have to hope rookies play like a Q or dejean which id argue more rare at the mlb level.

The Phillies have a massive track record of failure with prospects. I’ll believe it when I see one actually not suck in the majors.

Just now, eagle45 said:

The Phillies have a massive track record of failure with prospects. I’ll believe it when I see one actually not suck in the majors.

So they don’t get any points for Ranger Suarez, Sanchez who Tampa Bay gave up on and really they fixed him to get him here and Nola (prior to his extension (dumb to give it to him with that many innings on his arm) was a solid 2-3 starter). I’d bet if we went and looked Ranger and Sanchez is likely better duo than a lot of mlb teams over the last decade in developing. We can try to say they didn’t do Sanchez, but the rays were giving up on him because they believed mead was a better long term prospect. (Didn’t put wheeler in here as he wasn’t a prospect but he went from an Nola type starter in the rotation (early career Nola) to cy young working with our coaches and adding to his foundation)

If you wanna make the argument that their hitting prospects have not panned out the way that they should have, I’m not gonna disagree with you. It has been a problem since ed Wade left. Frankly goes on poor teaching of fundamental, poor scouting of hitters and I’d argue poor hitting coaches when called up (Kevin long falls into this as well as some other hitting coaches). However, they developed 3 guys who in their primes were top of the rotation starters over the last decade (even nola prior to his decline after his extension was a 2-3 starter in mlb). I haven’t mentioned some bullpen guys who have stuck in baseball and have solid careers

Even the dodgers who consistently have a good farm system for years struggle to get anywhere close to type of SP development of Ranger, Nola and Sanchez. From kershaw til today their best developed pitching prospects at mlb level were Julio Urias, Dustin May, Jensen, Walker buehler, billingsley, eovaldi, tony gonsolin and broxton. None of those guys besides Urias (who is an idiot and got himself out of baseball) and eovaldi were close to front end guys with any consistency over 3 years. evoladi had had a good career but he’s been in and out of top end and back end of the rotation for most of his career. The dodgers are fortunate their starting pitching prospects weren’t needed as they got snell, Ohtani, and bought Yamamoto from a Japanese league (even maeda was better than Most of their prospects)as those have been their best pitchers over a 20 year period of time (excluding kershaw)

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

So they don’t get any points for Ranger Suarez, Sanchez who Tampa Bay gave up on and really they fixed him to get him here and Nola (prior to his extension (dumb to give it to him with that many innings on his arm) was a solid 2-3 starter). I’d bet if we went and looked Ranger and Sanchez is likely better duo than a lot of mlb teams over the last decade in developing. We can try to say they didn’t do Sanchez, but the rays were giving up on him because they believed mead was a better long term prospect. (Didn’t put wheeler in here as he wasn’t a prospect but he went from an Nola type starter in the rotation (early career Nola) to cy young working with our coaches and adding to his foundation)

If you wanna make the argument that their hitting prospects have not panned out the way that they should have, I’m not gonna disagree with you. It has been a problem since ed Wade left. Frankly goes on poor teaching of fundamental, poor scouting of hitters and I’d argue poor hitting coaches when called up (Kevin long falls into this as well as some other hitting coaches). However, they developed 3 guys who in their primes were top of the rotation starters over the last decade (even nola prior to his decline after his extension was a 2-3 starter in mlb). I haven’t mentioned some bullpen guys who have stuck in baseball and have solid careers

Even the dodgers who consistently have a good farm system for years struggle to get anywhere close to type of SP development of Ranger, Nola and Sanchez. From kershaw til today their best developed pitching prospects at mlb level were Julio Urias, Dustin May, Jensen, Walker buehler, billingsley, eovaldi, tony gonsolin and broxton. None of those guys besides Urias (who is an idiot and got himself out of baseball) and eovaldi were close to front end guys with any consistency over 3 years. evoladi had had a good career but he’s been in and out of top end and back end of the rotation for most of his career. The dodgers are fortunate their starting pitching prospects weren’t needed as they got snell, Ohtani, and bought Yamamoto from a Japanese league (even maeda was better than Most of their prospects)as those have been their best pitchers over a 20 year period of time (excluding kershaw)

Sanchez absolutely doesn’t count. Great move and a success story for their MLB pitching coach? Sure. He was placed on the MLB roster almost immediately when they traded for him. That’s not a system win; it’s a home run grand slam trade.

Ranger and Nola are absolutely system success stories. 2 system success stories in…20 years?

21 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Sanchez absolutely doesn’t count. Great move and a success story for their MLB pitching coach? Sure. He was placed on the MLB roster almost immediately when they traded for him. That’s not a system win; it’s a home run grand slam trade.

Ranger and Nola are absolutely system success stories. 2 system success stories in…20 years?

How does Sanchez not count? They had to fix his control issue problems. The rays who are one of the best developing teams in terms of prospects couldn’t fix that problem. They also added pitches and changed his arm slot to some of his pitches for his repertoire since he got to the Phillies organization. If those aren’t two things in terms developing players, I don’t know what is. You don’t wanna admit it that’s on you. The rays sure as hell didn’t maximize Sanchez and it wasn’t until Phillies added to his repertoire and make some change in his arm slot/control that got him to be this good. That’s the Phillies recognized an issue and helped develop the arm talent he had.

This would be like the Phillies didn’t do anything to help werth and victorino become the players they did. Meanwhile the orioles, blue jays and dodgers all had werth. none could maximize his talent, fix the holes in his swing or keep him healthy. Padres and dodgers didn’t think victorino could be a MLB OF. Heck the dodgers failed to even take him back when he was offered back after not making opening day roster in 2005. Phillies worked with those guys to help them achieve their success cause when they got to the Phillies weren’t remotely close to what they achieved. Acting like the Phillies didn’t contribute (and big as their career trajectories weren’t great prior to coming here) to their and Sanchez developmental success would be simply foolish.

If Tampa Bay knew how to fix sanchez’s issues or thought they could develop him more like the Phillies did, he wouldn’t have been traded to the Phillies. So the Phillies had to recognize a player they thought could possibly have upside. Then they had to add to his arsenal and help him with his control issue. So the Phillies contributed multiple different way along with some luck to help Sanchez become a MLB player.

Again, in the last 20 years the Dodgers have Kershaw, eovaldi (who didn’t become what he had until years down the road) and a guy who beat women and is out of baseball over the last 20 years in starters. last 10 years they have consistently have had one of the top tier farm systems. Heck last 10 years of SP, Nola and ranger would be the two best pitchers the dodgers would have developed (unless we consider Yamamoto as dodgers development even though he was far far far more developed (arguably best asian pitcher since Ohtani) than Sanchez, werth or victorino ever were when they got to the Phillies).

Corbin Blows

21 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Corbin Blows

Give Garcia some credit he’s actually Hit for power lately. He finally has the 4th most HRs on the team now

Someone tell these geniuses it has been 33 years not 43 years since the world series

1 minute ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Someone tell these geniuses it has been 33 years not 43 years since the world series

It may have aged kruk 10 years living it. 

Corbin is A pile of crap

JFC Bohm is slow

Good win. Hopefully the offense can get 4+ tomorrow. Felt like there was a drop the last 6 innings.

Jays suck this year

19 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Jays suck this year

Your avatar cursed them

4 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

How does Sanchez not count? They had to fix his control issue problems. The rays who are one of the best developing teams in terms of prospects couldn’t fix that problem. They also added pitches and changed his arm slot to some of his pitches for his repertoire since he got to the Phillies organization. If those aren’t two things in terms developing players, I don’t know what is. You don’t wanna admit it that’s on you. The rays sure as hell didn’t maximize Sanchez and it wasn’t until Phillies added to his repertoire and make some change in his arm slot/control that got him to be this good. That’s the Phillies recognized an issue and helped develop the arm talent he had.

This would be like the Phillies didn’t do anything to help werth and victorino become the players they did. Meanwhile the orioles, blue jays and dodgers all had werth. none could maximize his talent, fix the holes in his swing or keep him healthy. Padres and dodgers didn’t think victorino could be a MLB OF. Heck the dodgers failed to even take him back when he was offered back after not making opening day roster in 2005. Phillies worked with those guys to help them achieve their success cause when they got to the Phillies weren’t remotely close to what they achieved. Acting like the Phillies didn’t contribute (and big as their career trajectories weren’t great prior to coming here) to their and Sanchez developmental success would be simply foolish.

If Tampa Bay knew how to fix sanchez’s issues or thought they could develop him more like the Phillies did, he wouldn’t have been traded to the Phillies. So the Phillies had to recognize a player they thought could possibly have upside. Then they had to add to his arsenal and help him with his control issue. So the Phillies contributed multiple different way along with some luck to help Sanchez become a MLB player.

Again, in the last 20 years the Dodgers have Kershaw, eovaldi (who didn’t become what he had until years down the road) and a guy who beat women and is out of baseball over the last 20 years in starters. last 10 years they have consistently have had one of the top tier farm systems. Heck last 10 years of SP, Nola and ranger would be the two best pitchers the dodgers would have developed (unless we consider Yamamoto as dodgers development even though he was far far far more developed (arguably best asian pitcher since Ohtani) than Sanchez, werth or victorino ever were when they got to the Phillies).

Sanchez went straight to AAA when they got him at 24, got MLB innings shortly thereafter, and then spent 2 years oscillating between Lehigh Valley and the Phillies until the light went on. I view that as a fundamentally different situation than signing a 17 year old in the Dominican Republic or drafting an 18-21 year old and successfully shepherding them through the full developmental circuit culminating in major league productivity.

It was a brilliant trade and a great job at the end of the line unlocking something the Rays could not. But it’s not a win for the talent pipeline.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Sanchez went straight to AAA when they got him at 24, got MLB innings shortly thereafter, and then spent 2 years oscillating between Lehigh Valley and the Phillies until the light went on. I view that as a fundamentally different situation than signing a 17 year old in the Dominican Republic or drafting an 18-21 year old and successfully shepherding them through the full developmental circuit culminating in major league productivity.

It was a brilliant trade and a great job at the end of the line unlocking something the Rays could not. But it’s not a win for the talent pipeline.

spent 3 years jumping back and forth from triple A and the Phillies. 2021, 2022 and then finally 2023 he stuck after starting the year in triple A.

the Phillies scouts and as an organization had to identify him as a potential lotto ticket in a trade. Like they did with werth and victorino. Imo that’s part of your scouting to identify talent on other teams where they failed or never lived up to expectations. then you have to actually be able to develop the talent to be able to maximize it. The Phillies had multiple guys who helped win a World Series that way.

every single professional league has scouting of players in other organizations and around the league. where they identify a guy that didn’t make it somewhere else or trade for a guy who hasn’t lived up to their potential. but teams take a chance with their scouting department/coaches thinking with with their coaching and development they could get more out of them. Eagles did it with Baun and Becton. Ask the Spurs doing it with chanpagnie. I actually think it’s a massively underrated aspect of player development in championship building.

Furthermore, the Tampa Bay rays are one of the best organizations at developing prospects. He was basically a single A pitcher his entire time in that organization. moved him up to triple A in 2019 and in his one performance got rocked. There was a very realistic chance if the Phillies didn’t fix some of his command issues and change his arm Slot on some of his pitches he doesn’t get to this point. The Rays tried to develop him from 2014 all the way until he got traded in 2020 offseason. So did he just figure it out himself after 6 years of single A ball (one good season in single A ball I’d add)? I highly doubt that. the Phillies particularly cotham (wheeler has even discussed about how much cotham has contributed to him making his jump with the Phillies and Sanchez has as well) helped with his command which was always an issue as well as add pitches/change arm slot angles as to help him in his development to make the jump he did.

Furthermore the Phillies still had to solve his command problems and add to his repertoire, as he wasn’t remotely close to finish product when they got him. He was on the verge of becoming a kid with talent that may have just been only that . it took 3 years of Phillies working with him on his command, adding to his arsenal and arm angles from time of the trade til 2023 call up to get him to be a consistent major league player. I’m not saying it’s the same as drafting a kid and developing over the ages 18-21. But trying to argue like the Phillies did nothing in contributing to his development is frankly BS. his career may have gone very differently if he didn’t get to the Phillies and the Phillies didn’t work on those things with him. he had 2014-2020 with the rays organization to become this type of player with their development and the furtherest they really got was 1 good year of an A ball pitcher. They traded him as their belief was mead they could develop into a better player than Sanchez

25 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Opening his eyes when he swings?

5 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

He had that 10 game hitting streak which got it all started. Now Garcia seems to be turning things around a bit. Honestly, the batting wouldn''t really have to be that great if we could just find a 4th starter. Isn't there someone out there we could get ahead of the trade deadline? We just need enough to get the WC and then the top 3 would be a tough out for anyone come October.

6 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

He had that 10 game hitting streak which got it all started. Now Garcia seems to be turning things around a bit. Honestly, the batting wouldn''t really have to be that great if we could just find a 4th starter. Isn't there someone out there we could get ahead of the trade deadline? We just need enough to get the WC and then the top 3 would be a tough out for anyone come October.

Tim Kelly had a good article on options. He forgot to include Sonny gray. Gray makes sense as they had interest in him in the past and Boston is going to be a seller and he’ll be traded. Plus he had a mutual option so Phillies could move on at year’s end or keep him if they wanted. Robbie Ray isn’t bad. He’s not what he was in his heyday but he’s a good 4th option and the giants would deal him. Hes also a UFA at year’s end

They don't need to find another Cliff Lee. Just get a dependable guy who can 6 innings and have the team still in the game.

Thought about this the other day, Phillies might be better off going after a 1B at the deadline. Move Harper back to RF and have Garcia/crawford platoon. Garcia is slashing .253/.343/.525/.869 against LHP. Meaning if Crawford is solid vs. RHP you improve the outfield platooning them and then get a power hitter at 1b. Options at 1b: Christian Walker, Nathaniel Lowe, Wilson Contreras and Jake burger. All having good years

19 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

They don't need to find another Cliff Lee. Just get a dependable guy who can 6 innings and have the team still in the game.

They can get a back end if the rotation guy. Probably want someone closer to being a no. 3 since the wild card round they’ll have to likely start luzardo for game 1 of the nlds (assuming they win) and game two might not have enough rest for Sanchez and wheeler. I kind of think Robbie Ray, Sonny grey and Michael wacka make sense. I think Logan Webb is interesting as giants are out of it and he’s coming off an injury. He’s owed $23 mil next couple years but he’s in his prime. He’s likely be your wheeler replacement when wheeler retires after 2027 if acquired. He’s 29. He’s not wheeler but he’s a good no. 2 and with Cotham he might get him to go to another level. So you’d have sanchez, Webb, luzardo, painter/wood