2 hours ago, vsptroops said:

All the "good ones" are in the lower levels. Honestly, if someone is willing to bite on either Painter or Miller, I would dump them. One guy is 6'6 but pitches like he's 5'10 and the other one has a chronic, balky back. Would a GM take a chance on either one? I guess but you would have to hope there is a GM dumber than Dumbrowski out there. Guy has been here 6 seasons now and 6 seasons later, they don't have anyone in their Triple AAA to help with the big-league club. The Braves and Dodgers lose a guy, and they bring up someone from their farm and don't miss a beat. Freakin pathetic.

Someone would take a chance at miller considering he’s still considered a top 25 prospect in baseball by most scouting resources and yet to play this year. So team likely missing the playoffs and in a rebuild would take that chance on him. Add on his "surgery” to fix the issue is non-invasive. My dad had this he was back after 6 weeks feeling great and hasn’t had an issue with his back in 10 years. Issue is they should’ve done this knowing it was likely instead of rehab like they did with painter a couple seasons back.

That said doubt the Phillies deal him as you are likely not getting a RH bat you need. Everyone mentions Buxton but it’s been leaked he really doesn’t want to leave Minnesota even with all their turmoil and issues. Add on he’s 32 going on 33 and injury prone. So a chance you get him and he’s hurt. Trout isn’t realistic as they aren’t taking on that money unless angels eat a significant amount which would cost a high level prospect which doubt the Phillies do that either.

The two things I’ve mentioned before, the right handed bat everybody wants doesn’t actually exist on the market right now. there’s too many teams involved in the wildcard and across baseball there’s a lack of right handed hitters to be made available (particularly outfield) that are above average that can really change the lineup the Phillies have. Best option might be Christian Walker who plays 1B/Dh which means moving Harper back to RF. He’s also 35 and is owed for 2027. Having a platoon of Garcia/Crawford in LF with marsh in CF. Phillies been reluctant to move Harper back to OF. IMO Phillies need 2 bats. OF and either 3B upgrade with someone like arenado or moving Marte to 3B. but the dbacks are still currently in the WC expecting Burnes back late August so if they are in it at the deadline they are dealing them even if Marte is pissing them off by taking days off without informing them until day of game.

Really the lack of farm options at double and triple A goes to the point I made that Dombrowski wasted so much money on bad contracts or bad addition. some of these prospects that would be in AA and AAA that you could call up and/or potentially help in another deal are gone to make up for mistakes and fix holes that Dave did poorly the last 3 years. I’d add the Phillies don’t exactly have great developing/coaching at those 2 levels. In the last 3 years Sánchez hit but really he was all over the place in triple A and wasn’t until cotham got working with him that his command got better. As for hitters Crawford, Clemens, Marchan and Rojas are about the only two that stuck for prolong periods of time on the Phillies. 2 of those guys can’t hit at all

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Someone would take a chance at miller considering he’s still considered a top 25 prospect in baseball by most scouting resources and yet to play this year. So team likely missing the playoffs and in a rebuild would take that chance on him. Add on his "surgery” to fix the issue is non-invasive. My dad had this he was back after 6 weeks feeling great and hasn’t had an issue with his back in 10 years. Issue is they should’ve done this knowing it was likely instead of rehab like they did with painter a couple seasons back.

That said doubt the Phillies deal him as you are likely not getting a RH bat you need. Everyone mentions Buxton but it’s been leaked he really doesn’t want to leave Minnesota even with all their turmoil and issues. Add on he’s 32 going on 33 and injury prone. So a chance you get him and he’s hurt. Trout isn’t realistic as they aren’t taking on that money unless angels eat a significant amount which would cost a high level prospect which doubt the Phillies do that either.

The two things I’ve mentioned before, the right handed bat everybody wants doesn’t actually exist on the market right now. there’s too many teams involved in the wildcard and across baseball there’s a lack of right handed hitters to be made available (particularly outfield) that are above average that can really change the lineup the Phillies have. Best option might be Christian Walker who plays 1B/Dh which means moving Harper back to RF. He’s also 35 and is owed for 2027. Having a platoon of Garcia/Crawford in LF with marsh in CF. Phillies been reluctant to move Harper back to OF. IMO Phillies need 2 bats. OF and either 3B upgrade with someone like arenado or moving Marte to 3B. but the dbacks are still currently in the WC expecting Burnes back late August so if they are in it at the deadline they are dealing them even if Marte is pissing them off by taking days off without informing them until day of game.

Really the lack of farm options at double and triple A goes to the point I made that Dombrowski wasted so much money on bad contracts or bad addition. some of these prospects that would be in AA and AAA that you could call up and/or potentially help in another deal are gone to make up for mistakes and fix holes that Dave did poorly the last 3 years.

I respect your opinion and baseball knowledge but disagree with you so heavily about the youth of this franchise. The best young player/prospect in the entire franchise right now is a negative WAR center fielder. It is impossible to say enough bad things about their MLB youth, farm system, how they’ve handled their farm system, the players currently in it, or the misplaced hype of recent and current prospects.

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I respect your opinion and baseball knowledge but disagree with you so heavily about the youth of this franchise. The best young player/prospect in the entire franchise right now is a negative WAR center fielder. It is impossible to say enough bad things about their MLB youth, farm system, how they’ve handled their farm system, the players currently in it, or the misplaced hype of recent and current prospects.

When did I say they had a good farm system of young player or great at developing their players? The fact that all of baseball has Aiden Miller still as a top 25 prospect tells you how MLB scouts/people who get paid to scout all 30 teams prospects feel about him. That’s not just the Phillies. you keep making this how I feel or the Phillies feel this way and viewed him in a light. no guys who scout the entire MLB on multiple platforms that has him ranked that high. This is not just the Phillies organization. The Phillies say crap like he’s Mike Schmidt prospect which is dumb to begin with cause Mike Schmidt is a unicorn. That said the scouting on Miller isn’t just the Phillies. the majority of people who scout prospect, watched 30 franchises scouts and baseball believe in him that way. this is not just what the Phillies believe internally. this is what majority of guys covering and scouting MLB is telling what they saw and future projections.

So you should be upset at more than Phillies, as the MLB guys who scout for the entire 30 teams are telling you this. So you should be questioning baseball scouts and mlb Scouting of Aiden Miller because it’s not just the Phillies. He doesn’t get ranked in the top 100 prospects for MLB just because of what the Phillies are putting out there. These are guys that scout all 30 franchises and farm teams based of what they’ve seen throughout baseball with prospects.

we can say they were wrong on painter, feels kind of early to just make that definitive statement because it’s been 12 starts but currently doesn’t look good. But they also made that projection of what he was prior to his TJ so unfortunately we will never know what he would’ve been what he wouldn’t have been based off that. Even so painter still had good value after he had TJ prior to returning. It is why teams kept asking for him in bigger deals. So I have to believe Aidan Miller (who doesn’t have nearly as bad of a surgery) probably still has good value around the league as they are consistently still ranking him high (like painter) and likely going to be asked for in a bigger deal.

I would add this cause I didn’t respond you to the other night about graduating from double/triple A. Cole Hamels had 3 starts in AA and 3 starts in AAA before he got called up here. He was terrible his first 12 mlb starts. He also had a back issue in the minors. Without him we don’t win the 08 WS but based on what’s on here he should’ve been gone long before getting to 08 after 12 starts along with having a back issues in the minors. Nola only had 6 starts in AAA before he got called up. Had a 9.82 era his last 8 starts his rookie year. Ya he was real bad at the end of his first year. Sanchez got called up twice by the Phillies when he wasn’t very good in triple A those years. In 2021 he had a 4.68 ERA with 48 walks in 73 innings. (Was good in 2022 triple A (3.14) but lousy up in the majors (5.63 ERA)). In 2023 he had a 4.35 era with 29 walks in 49 innings. He had a big control issue. Second time (not great in triple A but 3rd call up to Phillies) he actually hit cause Cotham worked with his command when he got called up and the made tweaks to his stuff and added to his repertoire. I’d also point out Chase Utley in his first 70 games as a Phillie was not Chase utley we all knew. He had flashes but his slashes were .233/.294/.400/.694. His SLG was about the only thing that was considered above avg. His AVG and OBP were slightly better than Crawford ( 59 games for Crawford .230/.291… Crawford is never going to hit for power so his SLG is always going to hurt him).

I point out. This isn’t just the Phillies either. Nolan McLean who was the Mets best pitching prospect just had a 7 game stretch with an ERA of 5.73 era and back to back games giving up 7 and 6 ERs. It’s because he has up til then around 19 starts. There’s a selected few mlb rookies that just are great and never look back when they get called up. Unfortunately most don’t.

This is not telling you that these guys are going to be good prospects. They could just be bust or with time they could develop into being better prospects. unlike the NFL rookies (except for your Paul skenes, Andruw Jones, pujols types (a very selected few who hit the ground running and don’t have ups and downs)) don’t generally make the type of impact guys like a Dejean or Q make as a rookie where can change the entire outcome of the teams. It’s because most aren’t ready when they get called up and you are living with inconsistencies until they get more time and experience. Which goes back to if Dave spent the money better (we are wasting about 70-80 mil), you wouldn’t have to hope rookies play like a Q or dejean which id argue more rare at the mlb level.

48 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

When did I say they had a good farm system of young player or great at developing their players? The fact that all of baseball has Aiden Miller still as a top 25 prospect tells you how MLB scouts/people who get paid to scout all 30 teams prospects feel about him. That’s not just the Phillies. you keep making this how I feel or the Phillies feel this way and viewed him in a light. no guys who scout the entire MLB on multiple platforms that has him ranked that high. This is not just the Phillies organization. The Phillies say crap like he’s Mike Schmidt prospect which is dumb to begin with cause Mike Schmidt is a unicorn. That said the scouting on Miller isn’t just the Phillies. the majority of people who scout prospect, watched 30 franchises scouts and baseball believe in him that way. this is not just what the Phillies believe internally. this is what majority of guys covering and scouting MLB is telling what they saw and future projections.

So you should be upset at more than Phillies, as the MLB guys who scout for the entire 30 teams are telling you this. So you should be questioning baseball scouts and mlb Scouting of Aiden Miller because it’s not just the Phillies. He doesn’t get ranked in the top 100 prospects for MLB just because of what the Phillies are putting out there. These are guys that scout all 30 franchises and farm teams based of what they’ve seen throughout baseball with prospects.

we can say they were wrong on painter, feels kind of early to just make that definitive statement because it’s been 12 starts but currently doesn’t look good. But they also made that projection of what he was prior to his TJ so unfortunately we will never know what he would’ve been what he wouldn’t have been based off that. Even so painter still had good value after he had TJ prior to returning. It is why teams kept asking for him in bigger deals. So I have to believe Aidan Miller (who doesn’t have nearly as bad of a surgery) probably still has good value around the league as they are consistently still ranking him high (like painter) and likely going to be asked for in a bigger deal.

I would add this cause I didn’t respond you to the other night about graduating from double/triple A. Cole Hamels had 3 starts in AA and 3 starts in AAA before he got called up here. He was terrible his first 12 mlb starts. He also had a back issue in the minors. Without him we don’t win the 08 WS but based on what’s on here he should’ve been gone long before getting to 08 after 12 starts along with having a back issues in the minors. Nola only had 6 starts in AAA before he got called up. Had a 9.82 era his last 8 starts his rookie year. Ya he was real bad at the end of his first year. Sanchez got called up twice by the Phillies when he wasn’t very good in triple A those years. In 2021 he had a 4.68 ERA with 48 walks in 73 innings. (Was good in 2022 triple A (3.14) but lousy up in the majors (5.63 ERA)). In 2023 he had a 4.35 era with 29 walks in 49 innings. He had a big control issue. Second time he actually hit cause Cotham worked with his command when he got called up and the made tweaks to his stuff and added to his repertoire. Let me also point out Chase Utley in his first 70 games as a Phillie was not Chase utley we all knew. He had flashes but his slashes were .233/.294/.400/.694. His SLG was about the only thing that was considered above avg. His AVG and OBP is slightly better than Crawford ( 59 games for Crawford… Crawford is never going to hit for power so his SLG is always going to hurt him).

I point out. This isn’t just the Phillies either. Nolan McLean who was the Mets best pitching prospect just had a 7 game stretch with an ERA of 5.73 era and back to back games giving up 7 and 6 ERs. It’s because he has up til then around 19 starts. There’s a selected few mlb rookies that just are great and never look back when they get called up. Unfortunately most don’t.

This is not telling you that these guys are going to be good prospects. They could just be bust or with time they could develop into being better prospects. unlike the NFL rookies (except for your Paul skenes, Andruw Jones, pujols types (a very selected few who hit the ground running and don’t have ups and downs)) don’t generally make the type of impact guys like a Dejean or Q make as a rookie where can change the entire outcome of the teams. It’s because most aren’t ready when they get called up and you are living with inconsistencies until they get more time and experience. Which goes back to if Dave spent the money better (we are wasting about 70-80 mil), you wouldn’t have to hope rookies play like a Q or dejean which id argue more rare at the mlb level.

The Phillies have a massive track record of failure with prospects. I’ll believe it when I see one actually not suck in the majors.

Just now, eagle45 said:

The Phillies have a massive track record of failure with prospects. I’ll believe it when I see one actually not suck in the majors.

So they don’t get any points for Ranger Suarez, Sanchez who Tampa Bay gave up on and really they fixed him to get him here and Nola (prior to his extension (dumb to give it to him with that many innings on his arm) was a solid 2-3 starter). I’d bet if we went and looked Ranger and Sanchez is likely better duo than a lot of mlb teams over the last decade.

If you wanna make the argument that their hitting prospects have not panned out the way that they should have, I’m not gonna disagree with you. However, they developed 3 guys who in their primes were top of the rotation starters over the last decade (even nola prior to his decline after his extension was a 2-3 starter in mlb). I haven’t mentioned some bullpen guys who have stuck in baseball and he solid careers