16 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Because, as Howie Roseman does, they would spread out any signing bonus to lower this years cap hit.

So using @Aerolithe_Lion contract suggestion, here is the existing deal, the new deal, and the impact total.

So here are the options.

Graham currently has a 9.6 million cap hit for 2023.  This contract can not stay in place, as there is large guarantees that kick in the second day of the 2023 league year for 2024 and 2025.

Option 1 - release Graham before the second day of the league year - cap hit goes from 9.663 million to 19.811 million

Option 2 - release Graham with a post June 1 designation, cap hit goes from 9.663 million to 9.905 million in 2023 and 2024

Option 3 - sign Graham to the new deal @Aerolithe_Lion suggested, cap hit goes from 9.663 million to 13.413 million, and then you can post June 1 release him in 2024, leaving cap hits of 5.449 million in 2024 and 2025.

 

I understand all of those numbers, and have no problem with any of them.  And in addition they clearly show that the current void year numbers in 2024, 2025, and 2026 are unchanged.  So I am still unclear how you can say, as you did in your original comment, that "adds additional void money beyond 2023.”  In your example 2 year extension above it actually reduces the void money from $18,311,000 to $4,985,000. 

4 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

1.  For a full voided deal and release of BG, You’re adding his base salary in 2023 to the voided number. It’s not 19.8 in accelerated prorations but closer to 18 as we’d be voiding the guarantee of that base salary. Add up the individual prorations left and it’s around 18.1.

2.  In option 2, how would it be possible to post him as a June 1st cut? There is an NFL allowances where some players can sign immediately in FA when a team designates then as a June 1st cut, but for the team cutting them, they remain on the books until then. In this scenario, how can he be June 1st cut if his contract is set to automatically void if not reworked?

3.  Option 3 is not him going from 9 to 13, because 9 was never a possible outcome of his 2023 cap number. It is a fake number due to the voids, he is either an 18m cap casualty or something lower on a reworked deal. 

 

1. Correct and fixed.

2.  https://overthecap.com/player/brandon-graham/725

Quote

3.  9 is his current cap number.  If he plays under his current contract, that is the cap hit, and then massive guarantees that kick in for 2024 and 2025.  I am using what is there as the starting point and what we can do from that number.  That option is unlikely, but it is the cap number we currently have to start with to work scenarios.

2 minutes ago, mattwill said:

 In your example 2 year extension above it actually reduces the void money from $18,311,000 to $4,985,000. 

The existing money does not go away with a new deal.  This is signing bonus money that has already been paid to Brandon Graham.  Signing a new deal does not make it go away.

18 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

Jimmy needless to say has no love for Jerry.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/2/9/23592671/jeff-stoutland-philadelphia-eagles-offensive-line-coach

Fantastic article on Stout - Sunday can't come soon enough

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

The existing money does not go away with a new deal.  This is signing bonus money that has already been paid to Brandon Graham.  Signing a new deal does not make it go away.

But it no longer is void money in two of the years, because there is no possibility of a voided contract in 2023 or 2024.  The void money is restricted to 2024 and 2025 in your example.  Signing bonus goes up and void money goes down.  The respective bucket amounts change, but the net effect on the Cap is zero.

16 minutes ago, downundermike said:

1. Correct and fixed.

2.  https://overthecap.com/player/brandon-graham/725

3.  9 is his current cap number.  If he plays under his current contract, that is the cap hit, and then massive guarantees that kick in for 2024 and 2025.  I am using what is there as the starting point and what we can do from that number.  That option is unlikely, but it is the cap number we currently have to start with to work scenarios.

With that then what are the options?

1. eat all 18m this year, sign a replacement. Roster spot costs… 21-25m$. Least likely option

2. June1st, Eat 8m this year and 10m next year, sign a replacement. Roster spot of both combined costs… 10-13m$ this year, then 10.m$ of at least just BG in 2024

3. Adjust his 2023 numbers, remove futures guarantees, give him whatever 5-7m$ cap hit 2023 salary. Don’t sign replacement, roster spot cost is ~13-15m$ this year with a dead cap number 10m$ in 2024 with additional benefit he could return again and lower that. Or additionally, Howie can play the June 1st game next year, then I believe remaining dead money is split fairly evenly between 2024 and 2025, something like 5.5 and 4.5.

In scenarios 1 and 2, the possibility of the cheap FA DE being close to as good as 2022 BG is minimal. I think unless there’s a ridiculous Dan Snyder type deal floating around his agent’s head, option 3 seems the slam dunk route

14 minutes ago, mattwill said:

But it no longer is void money in two of the years, because there is no possibility of a voided contract in 2023 or 2024.  The void money is restricted to 2024 and 2025 in your example.  Signing bonus goes up and void money goes down.  The respective bucket amounts change, but the net effect on the Cap is zero.

The void money is the signing bonus from his previous contract(s) that has already been paid.

It has to be accounted for against the cap, and does not go away with a new deal.

Here is an example that makes it easier to understand.

Bradberry got a 6.215 million dollar signing bonus when he signed with the Eagles.

Howie spread that signing bonus out over 5 years ( 6.215/5 = 1.243 ) to lower his 2022 cap hit.  If he did not do this, his cap hit this year would have been 7.25 million before incentives, instead of 2.278 million.

If the Eagles do not re sign Bradberry, the 4 remaining 1.243 million cap hits accelerate to 2023, totaling 4.972 on the right side dead money.

 

3 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

With that then what are the options?

1. eat all 18m this year, sign a replacement. Roster spot costs… 21-25m$. Least likely option

2. June1st, Eat 8m this year and 10m next year, sign a replacement. Roster spot of both combined costs… 11-15m$ this year, then 10.m$ of at least just BG in 2024

3. Adjust his 2023 numbers, remove futures guarantees, give him whatever 5-7m$ cap hit 2023 salary. Don’t sign replacement, roster spot cost is ~13-15m$ this year with a dead cap number 10m$ in 2024 with additional benefit he could return again and lower that. Or additionally, Howie can play the June 1st game next year, then I believe remaining dead money is split fairly evenly between 2024 and 2025, something like 5.5 and 4.5.

In scenarios 1 and 2, the possibility of the cheap FA DE being close to as good as 2022 BG is minimal. I think unless there’s a ridiculous Dan Snyder type deal floating around his agent’s head, option 3 seems the slam dunk route

That is what I posted.

2 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

My file crashed but I'm pretty good at saving it. I went back the past day and didn't see any missing but if I am, let me know

Im gonna try and game it this time, as the only likely way I’d win is if I pick a score no one thought of.

Eagles 15 - Chiefs 8

Defensive struggle, Jake Elliot hits multiple 55+ yarders and is named MVP

23 minutes ago, downundermike said:

The void money is the signing bonus from his previous contract(s) that has already been paid.

It has to be accounted for against the cap, and does not go away with a new deal.

Here is an example that makes it easier to understand.

Bradberry got a 6.215 million dollar signing bonus when he signed with the Eagles.

Howie spread that signing bonus out over 5 years ( 6.215/5 = 1.243 ) to lower his 2022 cap hit.  If he did not do this, his cap hit this year would have been 7.25 million before incentives, instead of 2.278 million.

If the Eagles do not re sign Bradberry, the 4 remaining 1.243 million cap hits accelerate to 2023, totaling 4.972 on the right side dead money.

 

You simply are defining (granularity) what void money is.  But void money only exists if there are void years in a contract.  If there are no void years the same money goes into the Signing Bonus buckets of the actual active contract years.  For example, if a two year contract is signed with a $2 million Signing Bonus the cap hit for Signing Bonus is $1 million in each of the two years of the contract.  However if one of the two years is a void year, then the $2 million is put into two different buckets $1 million in Signing Bonus in the first year and $1 million in the Void Money bucket in the second year.  The total is the same, but the bucket amounts are different.  In that example, if the void year is never voided, then the second $1 million moves out of the Void Money bucket and into the Signing Bonus bucket.

Note: Signing Bonus money has always already been paid, no matter what bucket that money is put into for Cap purposes.

1 hour ago, Utebird said:

Yup Reid loves to throw to his RBs and McKinnon I think had over 50 catches this year so he's a threat in the passing game.Pacheco guaranteed is going to get  some of those Andy Reid screens.

Graham and Cox have been good at sniffing out screens, tough to fool those old dogs but shouldn't keep Andy from trying.

This KC offense reminds me alot of pre TO eagles offenses in that there aren't any top wide receivers that one is going to force the ball too and the passing game runs through the TE and RBs.

Mahommes had a game this year where he hit 10 different receivers in the first half  so Gannon and the D are going to have to account for a lot of dudes.

On the flip side the eagles passing game runs through 3 guys, AJ devonte and goedert and those 3 will be tough for KC to handle as KC has 2 rookie corners and their LBs will have their hands full with goedert.

 

Those guys in the broken plays can be a real handful.  I can see us getting a ton of pressure on Mahomes, especially in the 2nd half, and those outlets are dangerous when he starts running around.  I don't think it's enough to carry them to a win, but just enough to cause some heartburn.

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

PHI - 27

KC - 23

Bonus: Epps INT 

If Epps gets an INT will be his first of the season.

Good timing on him...

One more reason to beat the Chiefs: their annoying-arse PBP guy and his fake gurgling voice.  Corny as hell

@LeanMeanGM

Eagles - 34

Chiefs - 17

Eagles D gets 5+ sacks and we pull away in the 2nd half.

2 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Those guys in the broken plays can be a real handful.  I can see us getting a ton of pressure on Mahomes, especially in the 2nd half, and those outlets are dangerous when he starts running around.  I don't think it's enough to carry them to a win, but just enough to cause some heartburn.

Yup McKinnon is a real threat after the catch in those little outlet dunks and then one has to worry about Kelce as well as mahomes always seems to get him the ball when the play breaks down.

I could see Gannon giving mahomes those dink and dunk throws all game which would make for a long game.

If that's the case eagles only chance will be to outscore the chiefs 

I wish the game was in Philly. I want to see the warm greetings Brittany and Jackson Mahomes would get. 

2 minutes ago, mattwill said:

You simply are defining (granularity) what void money is.  But void money only exists if there are void years in a contract.  If there are no void years the same money goes into the Signing Bonus buckets of the actual active contract years.  For example, if a two year contract is signed with a $2 million Signing Bonus the cap hit for Signing Bonus is $1 million in each of the two years of the contract.  However if one of the two years is a void year, then the $2 million is put into two different buckets $1 million in Signing Bonus in the first year and $1 million in the Void Money bucket in the second year.  The total is the same, but the bucket amounts are different.  In that example, if the void year is never voided, then the second $1 million moves out of the Void Money bucket and into the Signing Bonus bucket.

Nope.  Last time I will try and explain it to you, after this I give up as you clearly do not understand what void means.  It means there is no actual contract in place, and these are dummy years to spread out the signing bonus.

Lets use a contract that is completed, Steven Nelson.

Steven Nelson signed a 1 year deal with the Eagles, and was given a 1.51 million dollar signing bonus.

Howie spread that signing bonus over 5 years, 1.51 / 5 = 302 k.

Once Nelson's contract expired, the 4 remaining cap hits of 302 k accelerated to 2023, totaling 1.208 million, and some type of bonus was earned that also applied to the 2023 cap of 375 K.  That is where the 1.583 of dead cap for 2023 came from.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Utebird said:

If Epps gets an INT will be his first of the season.

Good timing on him...

i'll be glad if he gets his tackling under control

9 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Nope.  Last time I will try and explain it to you, after this I give up as you clearly do not understand what void means.  It means there is no actual contract in place, and these are dummy years to spread out the signing bonus.

Lets use a contract that is completed, Steven Nelson.

Steven Nelson signed a 1 year deal with the Eagles, and was given a 1.51 million dollar signing bonus.

Howie spread that signing bonus over 5 years, 1.51 / 5 = 302 k.

Once Nelson's contract expired, the 4 remaining cap hits of 302 k accelerated to 2023, totaling 1.208 million, and some type of bonus was earned that also applied to the 2023 cap of 375 K.  That is where the 1.583 of dead cap for 2023 came from.

 

 

I understand it perfectly.  And your description of the Nelson situation is spot on.  When the contract was actually voided, the money from the four Void Money buckets moved into the Dead Cap bucket.  The overall Void Money for the team (in accounting that would be called an accrued liability) was reduced by $1,208,000 and the Dead Cap (in accounting that would be called a current liability) was increased by $1,208,000.  
 

Note:  the prorated signing bonus amounts in the future non-void years of a contract are also an accrued liability.  During the current contract season the prorated Signing bonus amount for that year moves from the accrued liability bucket into the current liability bucket.

11 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I wish the game was in Philly. I want to see the warm greetings Brittany and Jackson Mahomes would get. 

they might still get one LOL

2 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I understand it perfectly.  And your description of the Nelson situation is spot on.  When the contract was actually voided, the money from the four Void Money buckets moved into the Dead Cap bucket.  The overall Void Money for the team (in accounting that would be called an accrued liability) was reduced by $1,208,000 and the Dead Cap (in accounting that would be called a current liability) was increased by $1,208,000.  

It is not void money.  It is money already paid to the player, and the cap implications of that are spread out to lower the cap hit in year 1.

Void does not mean the money is void, void means there is no contract in place for the player to be on the roster that year.

6 minutes ago, vaeagle2 said:

i'll be glad if he gets his tackling under control

Yup, he looked miffed when McCaffrey hurdled him, not sure why epps was trying to ankle bite McCaffrey anyway, it's not like he's Christian Okoye...

16 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup McKinnon is a real threat after the catch in those little outlet dunks and then one has to worry about Kelce as well as mahomes always seems to get him the ball when the play breaks down.

I could see Gannon giving mahomes those dink and dunk throws all game which would make for a long game.

If that's the case eagles only chance will be to outscore the chiefs 

How about we just beat the snot out of em from the jump?

How's that fit in your scenario?

You're playing 5 card stud with 4 cards, man.

We didn't get here by accident. Our Eagles are kickin down the door.

9 minutes ago, vaeagle2 said:

they might still get one LOL

Do we know of any updates as to how the ticket sale split is going?