Jalen Hurts discussion (Part 2) - see new topic for contract extension

[EazyEaglez]

15 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I'll participate in this discussion without your approval. You sure seem defensive. I didn't say that you made that quote. I was explaining how some people view some of the responses here. But you're welcome to put me on ignore.

Funny I never wrote he said that either. I wasn’t even referring to him, because I have him blocked, but he injected himself into my comment and assumed I was talking about him. Bottom line is people around here have stated they wanted Hurts to take a home team discount and many of us have discussed Jalen’s contract but that doesn’t mean any of those people are anti Hurts. Just feels like that guys is grasping at straws at this point. Arguing for the sake of being argumentative. 

[EazyEaglez]

Our guy is putting in the work. 

[RememberTheKoy]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Our guy is putting in the work. 

 

He's got that Brady drive and desire to be great.

[EagleJoe8]

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He's got that Brady drive and desire to be great.

If he can win us 7 Super Bowls, maybe then I’ll start to accept him. 

[LacesOut]

I have no doubt that he will work his tail off.

We just need him to lead the Team to a SB win! OR two. Please. That's all I ask for.

[EazyEaglez]

33 minutes ago, LacesOut said:

I have no doubt that he will work his tail off.

We just need him to lead the Team to a SB win! OR two. Please. That's all I ask for.

Give him some time. He’s only one of four to go to the Super Bowl for the Eagles so far and is the youngest to get there. Only one has accomplished the feat of winning. This guys is in the building grinding and still wanting to get better while  some of the other guys we had were pouting or hunting. We tried it the other way with all of those former quarterbacks with lots of talent and fragile egos. Let’s see what a guy can do that has talent, but his drive to be better greatly exceeds his talent. 

[LacesOut]

Oh I'll give him time, for sure.

Last season was just set up so perfectly, and man what a disappointing result. I'm still salty about it. 

I thought for sure the Fox Announcer would say at the end of the game: And the Philadelphia Eagles have just won their 2nd Super Bowl as a Franchise and the 2nd in five years!!!

 

[Rey]

The difference in his game from 2021 to 2022 was insane. That did not happen by mistake ... I have no doubt he'll be that much better in 2023 and we're going to need it because our D is going to likely have a bumpy Rd unless we absolutely kill it in the draft. Some June 1st cut vets or moves wouldn't hurt either.

[NOTW]

Hurts made the playoffs in his 2nd year (1st year as starter), and made it all the way to the SB in his 3rd year and had they won, would have been the easy MVP of the SB.

A few years ago I went back through prior Super Bowl winning QBs of the past and a lot of them had not won a playoff game until their 3rd or 4th year, many hadn't won a SB until then either.  There is this expectation these days that young QBs need to win early and that's not reality.  Some situations work out like Mahomes and Big Ben stepped into playoff ready teams.  Mahomes won his first playoff game year 2, won SB year 3.  Russell Wilson won a playoff game year 1 and SB year 2.

• Peyton Manning didn't win a playoff game until year 5, didn't win the SB until year 9.  Do you think Eagles fans would be patient with any QB waiting 5 years to win a playoff game and 9 years to win a Super Bowl?  Manning was the #1 pick overall.  The fans would have wanted him run out of town after 2 years.
• Aaron Rodgers obviously sat behind Favre for 3 years so that's a factor.  He won his 1st playoff game and the SB in his 3rd year as starter (6th year in the league)
• Stafford just won in his 13th year in the league.  He only made 3 playoff games in his 12 year career in Detroit and lost all of them.
• Eli Manning made the playoffs his 2nd and 3rd years and lost both games.  He did not win a playoff game until his 4th year when they also won the SB.

Going further back guys would also take years to win like Brees, Aikman, etc.

Hurts should be back and will have strong opportunities to win it all.

[EazyEaglez]

On 3/30/2023 at 6:28 PM, NOTW said:

Hurts made the playoffs in his 2nd year (1st year as starter), and made it all the way to the SB in his 3rd year and had they won, would have been the easy MVP of the SB.

A few years ago I went back through prior Super Bowl winning QBs of the past and a lot of them had not won a playoff game until their 3rd or 4th year, many hadn't won a SB until then either.  There is this expectation these days that young QBs need to win early and that's not reality.  Some situations work out like Mahomes and Big Ben stepped into playoff ready teams.  Mahomes won his first playoff game year 2, won SB year 3.  Russell Wilson won a playoff game year 1 and SB year 2.

• Peyton Manning didn't win a playoff game until year 5, didn't win the SB until year 9.  Do you think Eagles fans would be patient with any QB waiting 5 years to win a playoff game and 9 years to win a Super Bowl?  Manning was the #1 pick overall.  The fans would have wanted him run out of town after 2 years.
• Aaron Rodgers obviously sat behind Favre for 3 years so that's a factor.  He won his 1st playoff game and the SB in his 3rd year as starter (6th year in the league)
• Stafford just won in his 13th year in the league.  He only made 3 playoff games in his 12 year career in Detroit and lost all of them.
• Eli Manning made the playoffs his 2nd and 3rd years and lost both games.  He did not win a playoff game until his 4th year when they also won the SB.

Going further back guys would also take years to win like Brees, Aikman, etc.

Hurts should be back and will have strong opportunities to win it all.

Eagles fans were pretty patient with McNabb. Yeah he had his detractors, but he wasn’t run out of town. Frankly if Wentz didn’t want out he’s probably an Eagle for at least one more year that would give him six. Cunningham also had a long career here. Bottom line is I believe the fans will be patient, but if they aren’t it doesn’t matter, because Hurts needs to continue to play at a high level. Overall I do think Jalen is going to need to somewhat reinvent himself though. He can’t keep going season after season taking this many hits. Jalen isn’t even 25 yet. They say most players do not reach their prime until 26 which seems close to around the moment many of these quarterbacks start seeing some real success. In Jalen’s first full season as the starter, he took his team to the playoffs. Hungry for more he took his team to the SB in his second  season and he still isn’t at his full potential yet. Provided Jalen stays healthy he could be leading the Eagles to a lot of late playoff runs that hopefully end with few serious playof successes. 

[Thrive]

8 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Eagles fans were pretty patient with McNabb. Yeah he had his detractors, but he wasn’t run out of town. Frankly if Wentz didn’t want out he’s probably an Eagle for at least one more year that would give him six. Cunningham also had a long career here. Bottom line is I believe the fans will be patient, but if they aren’t it doesn’t matter, because Hurts needs to continue to play at a high level. Overall I do think Jalen is going to need to somewhat reinvent himself though. He can’t keep going season after season taking this many hits. Jalen isn’t even 25 yet. They say most players do not reach their prime until 26 which seems close to around the moment many of these quarterbacks start seeing some real success. In Jalen’s first full season as the starter, he took his team to the playoffs. Hungry for more he took his team to the SB in his second  season and he still isn’t at his full potential yet. Provided Jalen stays healthy he could be leading the Eagles to a lot of late playoff runs that hopefully end with few serious playof successes. 

If Jalen wants to have a career like Cam Newton (he can), then he’s already at his prime. I don’t see how he holds up for more than 3-4 years at that pace but we’ll likely win a lot of games if he’s healthy.

If he wants to have a career like Steve Young (he can), then he won’t be in his prime for another 5-6 years and we’ll likely win a lot of games if he’s healthy.

I guess that’s not too bad.

[EazyEaglez]

7 minutes ago, Thrive said:

If Jalen wants to have a career like Cam Newton (he can), then he’s already at his prime. I don’t see how he holds up for more than 3-4 years at that pace but we’ll likely win a lot of games if he’s healthy.

If he wants to have a career like Steve Young (he can), then he won’t be in his prime for another 5-6 years and we’ll likely win a lot of games if he’s healthy.

I guess that’s not too bad.

Steve Young is a bit of an oddity. He spent years behind Montana and didn’t really get a chance to play until he was 30 and he played about 7 years of starting football. 8 seasons if you count that dreadful year in Tampa Bay. Cam Newton played about 8 years of starting football. One of Steve Young’s biggest issues in his career were concussions. Young never really had the long career of starting football as some think. Also he won just one Super Bowl. Ultimately I hope he can achieve beyond both players. In any case that can’t happen if he continues to get hit as often as he does. 

[Thrive]

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Steve Young is a bit of an oddity. He spent years behind Montana and didn’t really get a chance to play until he was 30 and he played about 7 years of starting football. 8 seasons if you count that dreadful year in Tampa Bay. Cam Newton played about 8 years of starting football. One of Steve Young’s biggest issues in his career were concussions. Young never really had the long career of starting football as some think. Also he won just one Super Bowl. Ultimately I hope he can achieve beyond both players. In any case that can’t happen if he continues to get hit as often as he does. 

I was really thinking more about skillsets and how they translate to longevity in the modern style of football but point taken.

[brkmsn]

8 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Steve Young is a bit of an oddity. He spent years behind Montana and didn’t really get a chance to play until he was 30 and he played about 7 years of starting football. 8 seasons if you count that dreadful year in Tampa Bay. Cam Newton played about 8 years of starting football. One of Steve Young’s biggest issues in his career were concussions. Young never really had the long career of starting football as some think. Also he won just one Super Bowl. Ultimately I hope he can achieve beyond both players. In any case that can’t happen if he continues to get hit as often as he does. 

Steve Young also played 2 seasons in the USFL. 

[SkippyX]

Steve Young was a runner.

• He ran 269 time in college in 34 games
• He ran 135 times in the USFL in 25 games.
• He ran 111 times in 19 games in Tampa.
• He ran 196 times as a backup in SF over 10 starts and some mop up.
• He ran 502 times in the regular season as the 49ers starter in his 30s.
• He ran another 96 times in the playoffs as a 49er.

That's 1,309 carries as a QB.

His career ended in the pocket when he was annihilated by a pass rusher.

 

Cunningham had 824 carries as a pro and 305 in college for a total of 1129 carries  (180 less than Young)

Vick had 910 as a pro and 235 in college for 1145 (164 less than Young)

McNair ran 724 times as a pro and 384 carries in college for 1108  (201 less than Young)

FWIW Elway was 868 and 259 for 1127

People claiming Young did not run a bunch are stubbornly oblivious. They know that he was a runner.

Young was MVP in 1992 at age 31 throwing for 3465 yards and running for 537 yards.

[SkippyX]

Jalen Hurts while learning to play NFL QB has put up the following numbers through 34 starts:

7764 passing yards with 8 games of 300+ yards passing.

He even reworked his throwing mechanics in the middle of that.

 

Recent 2x MVP Aaron Rodgers threw for 8050 yards and 4 games of 300+ yards passing in his last 34 starts.

Goff 8263 and 5

Jimmy G 8076 and 6

I don't think we will ever have a problem with Hurts being Lamar or early Vick or Cam Newton.

• Lamar's first 34 was 6459 and 1
• Lamar's last 35 is 7112 and 3  (I included and extra game since he was hurt early 2x in that 34)

 

FWIW Josh Allen had 7077 and 4 in his first 34 and 8914 and 11 in his last 34.  I'm pretty sure he did not stop running.

[EazyEaglez]

13 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Jalen Hurts while learning to play NFL QB has put up the following numbers through 34 starts:

7764 passing yards with 8 games of 300+ yards passing.

He even reworked his throwing mechanics in the middle of that.

 

Recent 2x MVP Aaron Rodgers threw for 8050 yards and 4 games of 300+ yards passing in his last 34 starts.

Goff 8263 and 5

Jimmy G 8076 and 6

I don't think we will ever have a problem with Hurts being Lamar or early Vick or Cam Newton.

• Lamar's first 34 was 6459 and 1
• Lamar's last 35 is 7112 and 3  (I included and extra game since he was hurt early 2x in that 34)

 

FWIW Josh Allen had 7077 and 4 in his first 34 and 8914 and 11 in his last 34.  I'm pretty sure he did not stop running.

I remember just bringing up Josh Allen in comparison would make some people go insane around here. 😂 (cue someone on this board asking me to prove that…. Go look it up yourself. 🙄) Speaking of Allen though his coach recently stated that he wanted Josh to stop running as much in order to preserve his body. He’s bigger than Jalen so that is a concern. Jalen probably needs to find a way to cut down as many runs as he has. The Eagles overall need to find ways to lower his rush attempts. I think the move would be to get an elite level running back. Someone they can count on to get yards on the ground so Jalen doesn’t always have to. 

[EagleJoe8]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I remember just bringing up Josh Allen in comparison would make some people go insane around here. 😂 (cue someone on this board asking me to prove that…. Go look it up yourself. 🙄) Speaking of Allen though his coach recently stated that he wanted Josh to stop running as much in order to preserve his body. He’s bigger than Jalen so that is a concern. Jalen probably needs to find a way to cut down as many runs as he has. The Eagles overall need to find ways to lower his rush attempts. I think the move would be to get an elite level running back. Someone they can count on to get yards on the ground so Jalen doesn’t always have to. 

Hell, I’m not even against him running. It’s an asset that’s valuable. What I don’t want, are the games he played in Chicago. We don’t need the 2-3 yard runs into the teeth of the defense. They gain so little, and those are the ones that give the defense a chance to take shots on him. Use the RBs for those. 
 

The wide open runs, sure, take them all day if the defense gives him the space. 

[brkmsn]

7 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Hell, I’m not even against him running. It’s an asset that’s valuable. What I don’t want, are the games he played in Chicago. We don’t need the 2-3 yard runs into the teeth of the defense. They gain so little, and those are the ones that give the defense a chance to take shots on him. Use the RBs for those. 
 

The wide open runs, sure, take them all day if the defense gives him the space. 

You can't always pick and choose whether a run will be wide open or not. Right now, the read option is a part of our game and a strength with how proficient Hurts is with the reads. It's still possible for a defense to play it well and there not be much or anything there from time to time. You basically either use that strength as a part of your offense or you take it out. I strongly believe that giving defenses more things to worry about gives our offense as a whole an advantage. 

[EagleJoe8]

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

You can't always pick and choose whether a run will be wide open or not. Right now, the read option is a part of our game and a strength with how proficient Hurts is with the reads. It's still possible for a defense to play it well and there not be much or anything there from time to time. You basically either use that strength as a part of your offense or you take it out. I strongly believe that giving defenses more things to worry about gives our offense as a whole an advantage. 

I’m talking wide open in the sense that the field opens up while moving around looking to pass. That what he did most of the year. I said then and I maintain the position now, he played a stupid game in Chicago. I hope Parsons’ comments didn’t get in his head, but the optics didn’t look good. He didn’t play smart with his body in that game. 

[Thrive]

Looks like the young man is back at 3DQB. Good news to me. Hopefully he can find additional ways to take his passing game to another level.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

12 hours ago, Thrive said:

Looks like the young man is back at 3DQB. Good news to me. Hopefully he can find additional ways to take his passing game to another level.

We know he’ll put everything he can in to being better that’s for sure.

[brkmsn]

13 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I’m talking wide open in the sense that the field opens up while moving around looking to pass. That what he did most of the year. I said then and I maintain the position now, he played a stupid game in Chicago. I hope Parsons’ comments didn’t get in his head, but the optics didn’t look good. He didn’t play smart with his body in that game. 

My point is that if you want to take away those "other" runs then you need to take the read option out of our offense, unless you like the Minshew version where the QB was no threat to keep the ball and the defense knew it. 

Personally, I'm against making things easier for opposing defenses. Injuries are a part of football and I'm not going to obsess about "what could happen." Last year we saw a few QBs get hurt and/or miss games because their hand/arm was hit while throwing a pass. No matter how many rules you make to protect QBs, no matter how careful you are in OTAs, TC, and practice, no matter how little you play them in preseason, anything can happen at any point on any type of play. It all comes down to durability and luck. So far, Hurts has proven quite durable throughout his entire football journey --- quite the polar opposite of his former Alabama counterpart. 

[EagleJoe8]

44 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

My point is that if you want to take away those "other" runs then you need to take the read option out of our offense, unless you like the Minshew version where the QB was no threat to keep the ball and the defense knew it. 

Personally, I'm against making things easier for opposing defenses. Injuries are a part of football and I'm not going to obsess about "what could happen." Last year we saw a few QBs get hurt and/or miss games because their hand/arm was hit while throwing a pass. No matter how many rules you make to protect QBs, no matter how careful you are in OTAs, TC, and practice, no matter how little you play them in preseason, anything can happen at any point on any type of play. It all comes down to durability and luck. So far, Hurts has proven quite durable throughout his entire football journey --- quite the polar opposite of his former Alabama counterpart. 

You seem oblivious to the concept of risk mitigation. Since you acknowledge a player can be hurt at any given time, answer a simple question. Since Hurts is much more dynamic with the ball in his hands than Covey ever will be, why not have Hurts return punts? We can get better returns, and use that roster spot elsewhere.

 

Sound like a good idea? If not, why? If so, why does no team with a dynamic running QB do that?

[Aerolithe_Lion]

2 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

You seem oblivious to the concept of risk mitigation. Since you acknowledge a player can be hurt at any given time, answer a simple question. Since Hurts is much more dynamic with the ball in his hands than Covey ever will be, why not have Hurts return punts? We can get better returns, and use that roster spot elsewhere.

 

Sound like a good idea? If not, why? If so, why does no team with a dynamic running QB do that?

That’s sophistry