Jalen Hurts discussion (Part 2) - see new topic for contract extension

[MidMoFo]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Saw 4 for 160. Jalen should be more, but fairly close to that. 

Do you honestly think Daniel Jones and Jalen Hurts are comparable as players?

I know who I would rather have, and it’s not Daniel Jones.

[SkippyX]

4 for 120 with 75 in incentives would have been fair for Jones IMO but the market is not about fair.

No one really cares about him making the 195 over 4. If he plays like Hurts / Josh Allen and they win some playoff games then he deserves it.

That 40 a year could be a really bad floor though.

[MidMoFo]

26 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

4 for 120 with 75 in incentives would have been fair for Jones IMO but the market is not about fair.

No one really cares about him making the 195 over 4. If he plays like Hurts / Josh Allen and they win some playoff games then he deserves it.

That 40 a year could be a really bad floor though.

I wouldn’t have signed Jones for $195 mil over four. I wouldn’t have signed him for anywhere close to that… but the Giants did. So that’s the market price for a mediocre qb that showed improvement and won 1 playoff game.

So… what do you think Hurts agent is going to expect?

[SkippyX]

26 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

I wouldn’t have signed Jones for $195 mil over four. I wouldn’t have signed him for anywhere close to that… but the Giants did. So that’s the market price for a mediocre qb that showed improvement and won 1 playoff game.

So… what do you think Hurts agent is going to expect?

Hurts agent can expect anything they want. Hurts has to make the deal he wants.

42-48 a year in a 4 or 5 year deal is a fair range.  50+ is greed. If he wants money as respect then he's not the guy we thought he was.

Money for respect is for guys like Jalen Ramsey, not Jalen Hurts.

5 years 230 with 20 in incentives would be a good deal for both sides.

 

If its an 8-10 year deal then the average goes up because the cap will continue to go up in years 6+

 

There is propaganda going around that all QBs set the bar when its their turn. The truth is that Rodgers x2, Mahomes, and Wilson are the last 4 guys to set the bar over the last 5 years or so. Its not too far back to Brees and Eli setting the bar.

 

[MidMoFo]

37 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Hurts agent can expect anything they want. Hurts has to make the deal he wants.

42-48 a year in a 4 or 5 year deal is a fair range.  50+ is greed. If he wants money as respect then he's not the guy we thought he was.

Money for respect is for guys like Jalen Ramsey, not Jalen Hurts.

5 years 230 with 20 in incentives would be a good deal for both sides.

 

If its an 8-10 year deal then the average goes up because the cap will continue to go up in years 6+

 

There is propaganda going around that all QBs set the bar when its their turn. The truth is that Rodgers x2, Mahomes, and Wilson are the last 4 guys to set the bar over the last 5 years or so. Its not too far back to Brees and Eli setting the bar.

 

So you think Jalen Hurts is worth the same as Daniel Jones? That’s all he’s worth to you?

[VaBeach_Eagle]

How's this thread doing, is it loading slowly or is it ok?

[Traveler Vic]

10 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

How's this thread doing, is it loading slowly or is it ok?

I wrote you a message. Loading fine... But in my opinion performance and chemistry with other players, health, contract, etc might as well be different threads.

[Swoop]

7 hours ago, CheesesteakNBeer said:

I'd like to think the front office has learned a lesson from the Wentz debacle. This deal is going to have the future in mind.

I agree. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't an "out" in there somewhere. @ManchesterEagleand I have talked about this quite a bit in the past.

6 hours ago, MidMoFo said:

Has Daniel Jones even had one year? Cuz he just got almost $49mil/year… that’s not all guaranteed, but I think a lot of posters around here need to start preparing themselves for a larger number than is being talked about for Hurts.

What’s our next option? See if Richardson or Levis fall to #10, pick them and let Hurts walk after next season?

The way the qb market is going, that may have to be done to keep an overall solid roster and not dumping 1/4 of the salary cap into one player. I’m a Hurts supporter, but the qb contracts are getting a little out of balance in my opinion.

Just because the Giants are stupid doesn't mean the Eagles need to match that idiocy and pay Hurts north of 60 million a year. He'll get paid (deservedly) and it'll probably be a lot, but that number is way, way too unrealistic at this point in time.

Before you know it, though. It's coming.

[ManchesterEagle]

6 hours ago, Swoop said:

I agree. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't an "out" in there somewhere. @ManchesterEagleand I have talked about this quite a bit in the past.

Just because the Giants are stupid doesn't mean the Eagles need to match that idiocy and pay Hurts north of 60 million a year. He'll get paid (deservedly) and it'll probably be a lot, but that number is way, way too unrealistic at this point in time.

Before you know it, though. It's coming.

Yes an out makes every sense after 4/5 years. I suspect the Eagles will still take a cap hit even with the out, but not a crippling one. 

I do think some people overplay the Wentz deal as a reason not to commit to Hurts long term. Wentz was a fairly unique set of circumstances. But definitely worth us having an out.

I’m not really worried about the Jones deal. It is really high, but ultimately it’s only 82 million guaranteed and not a long term commitment. Hurts will get at least double that guaranteed. So I would think that they don’t use Jones’s contract as a basis for negotiating.
 

[Dweedlebug]

12 hours ago, MidMoFo said:

Do you honestly think Daniel Jones and Jalen Hurts are comparable as players?

I know who I would rather have, and it’s not Daniel Jones.

No, but I do think the Giants massively over paid Jones.  So, it comes down to do you actually use that number as a reference point or throw it out as an outlier?  I Think I'd be good with Hurts getting in the 45 million range per year, depending on length of contract, guaranteed money, and incentives.  If he had multiple seasons at this level of performance I'd be comfortable with the 50 million a year range.  Guess I'm still a bit gun shy after giving Carson all that money after one good year and then him totally shitting the bed.

[NOTW]

I would expect Howie to work out a deal that takes care of Hurts but also gives them certain flexibility or protection.  In recent years more and more QBs move around to different teams, even big names, even championship winning QBs.  That was more rare in the past.  I think both players and teams realize anything can happen.  You don't necessarily get the stability you used to.  Now there is so much movement. 

[TorontoEagle]

On 3/7/2023 at 10:04 AM, Boogyman said:

Nahhh, it's more likely that question will also confuse him.

Nah just your ongoing stupidity is confusing 

[TorontoEagle]

On 3/6/2023 at 8:19 PM, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

TorontoEagle is the only one who can answer this dilemma 

Why would I want him traded?

[Vee]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:25 AM, Dweedlebug said:

No, but I do think the Giants massively over paid Jones.  So, it comes down to do you actually use that number as a reference point or throw it out as an outlier?  I Think I'd be good with Hurts getting in the 45 million range per year, depending on length of contract, guaranteed money, and incentives.  If he had multiple seasons at this level of performance I'd be comfortable with the 50 million a year range.  Guess I'm still a bit gun shy after giving Carson all that money after one good year and then him totally shitting the bed.

Yeah, unfortunately you don't get that option.  If you wanna be gun shy, then you start all over and hope the next QB you draft can stay healthy and play at a high level.  After a swing and a miss, you might be gun shy there too.... the odds would be stacked against you.

Here, you just hope the Eagles cut the best deal possible and know that the market is the market.

[Dweedlebug]

2 hours ago, Vee said:

Yeah, unfortunately you don't get that option.  If you wanna be gun shy, then you start all over and hope the next QB you draft can stay healthy and play at a high level.  After a swing and a miss, you might be gun shy there too.... the odds would be stacked against you.

Here, you just hope the Eagles cut the best deal possible and know that the market is the market.

You absolutely get that option.  It's even called a 5th year OPTION.  You don't have to give an extension after the 4th year.  Now, of course, that can come back and bite you. If the QB has another great year you're going to end up paying even more, but you 100% have that option.

[NOTW]

20 minutes ago, time2rock said:

 

[Vee]

10 hours ago, Dweedlebug said:

You absolutely get that option.  It's even called a 5th year OPTION.  You don't have to give an extension after the 4th year.  Now, of course, that can come back and bite you. If the QB has another great year you're going to end up paying even more, but you 100% have that option.

Ahh yes.  You are correct had Hurts been drafted in the First Round.  

Of course Jalen Hurts was not drafted in the First Round, so would that apply?  No.

[Mat]

He is worth more than Kyler. He will get 48-50 million a year. He is worth more than Jones at 40 million a year. 

The worry is you're banking on a QB that has only had one elite season and paying him elite money. It was a disaster with Wentz but it is the risk you have to take when you find your franchise guy 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

2 hours ago, Mat said:

He is worth more than Kyler. He will get 48-50 million a year. He is worth more than Jones at 40 million a year. 

The worry is you're banking on a QB that has only had one elite season and paying him elite money. It was a disaster with Wentz but it is the risk you have to take when you find your franchise guy 

The AAV between 45-55m$ isn’t hugely important. It seems like a major discrepancy but the total guarantees and how the guarantees are distributed will have a much bigger impact.

Pat Mahomes’ 10 year, 500m$ (50m$ AAV) contract is way better and more manageable than Deshaun Watson’s’ 5 year 230m$ (46m$ AAV) contract due to how the guarantees are structured.

[D-Shiznit]

Joe Banner is saying that Howie wants a longer term contract, but Hurts' people could rather have a 3 year deal.

[Swoop]

1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said:

Joe Banner is saying that Howie wants a longer term contract, but Hurts' people could rather have a 3 year deal.

Works for me

[Dweedlebug]

20 hours ago, Vee said:

Ahh yes.  You are correct had Hurts been drafted in the First Round.  

Of course Jalen Hurts was not drafted in the First Round, so would that apply?  No.

He's under contract for the entire 2023 season, so they have the OPTION of not giving him an extension right now and letting him play his contract, do they not?  So once again, eevn without the 5th year option, they still 100% have the OPTION of waiting.

[Nivraga]

On 3/7/2023 at 10:26 PM, MidMoFo said:

So you think Jalen Hurts is worth the same as Daniel Jones? That’s all he’s worth to you?

Of course Jalen Hurts is worth more but just because the Giants over paid Jones doesn't mean that sets the standard. The Eagles will negotiate in good faith and expect Hurts agent to do the same. Hurts will get what he is worth but no other GM is going to use the Giants stupidity to set the market. Of course agents will try to but it's their job to get the best deal for their client and use any leverage they can. But anytime any agent brings up the Jones deal it will be met with "The Giants overpaid and we can't use that as a model". 

[Nivraga]

23 hours ago, Swoop said:

Works for me

a 3 year deal is bad for the Eagles cap situation. But Hurts agent wants to revisit the market while Hurts is still ascending or at least at his peak.

[EazyEaglez]

On 3/7/2023 at 8:26 PM, MidMoFo said:

Do you honestly think Daniel Jones and Jalen Hurts are comparable as players?

I know who I would rather have, and it’s not Daniel Jones.

Who can you really compare Jalen to? Just stating that all of this talk about home discounts and taking less money is nonsense. He’s at least getting what Jones got or more.