Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

They had Fangio lined up to be hired. Not Siri choosing him. Then got their second choice of HC in 2021 Moore hired as OC to run the O.

I just can’t understand seeing it playing out much any other way. 

I don’t even think Moore and Siri got along very well. 

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I don’t even think Moore and Siri got along very well. 

Listen to Siri demand Moore” just call it” on the playaction Smitty pass in the SB. Just pay attention to how Moore completely started off. Siri shoving his way in on Moore every step further and further. Week two Siri already was butting in.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I don’t even think Moore and Siri got along very well. 

I mean Moore jumped on taking the worst HC job out there to get away from Siri. This is a real quality OC job for 2025…if you don’t consider Siri as a factor. Easily a job you don’t jump ship for just to get any old HC gig. Come back for a second season and easily getting other HC interviews next season. Most whole O returning. 

List off the worse HC situations than the Saints in 2025? I mean you’ve literally been discussing it being fascinated with exactly how much of a train wreck it is. It’s not even like just light on talent level bad. It’s a freakin nightmare job. Moore jumped ship for that. 

Saints job is worse than the Browns…the Jags…it’s completely screwed. You’ve mentioned it plenty of times specifically because it’s just so terrible bad. That’s a job you only take…because you gotta leave. Moore was either leaving to be OC elsewhere…or taking the worst HC job…not just this year in the NFL…it’s worse than just that…it’s bordering on one of the all time worst HC gigs.

27 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You think that everything came from the meetings after last season where after some days Rosie and Lurie even talked to Bellicheat?  Decided they’d have to change absolutely everything if they fired Siri to hire Bellicheat. Coaching candidates were absolutely bleak last offseason. Or they would have hired a new HC. So after they chose to not completely rip up the whole organization …probably even down to scouting departments for Bellicheat. They made a decision to bring back Siri. But only if he stayed on after being demoted. Fangio completely in charge of the D. Hiring the best OC they could…taking control of the O. Siri was out. CEO HC. 

Yes, Again because I don't think Howie and Belicheck would ever work, and I think Howie/ Lurie have always known that, I believe it was a fact finding type thing, similar to Howie's year off.  Lurie is a big fan of picking championship people's brains.  I don't ever think it was going to lead to a job offer.  Not for one second.  

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Yes, Again because I don't think Howie and Belicheck would ever work, and I think Howie/ Lurie have always known that, I believe it was a fact finding type thing, similar to Howie's year off.  Lurie is a big fan of picking championship people's brains.  I don't ever think it was going to lead to a job offer.  Not for one second.  

It was the only option…in a really bad hiring cycle. Things were at that point.

Just now, joemas6 said:

Yes, Again because I don't think Howie and Belicheck would ever work, and I think Howie/ Lurie have always known that, I believe it was a fact finding type thing, similar to Howie's year off.  Lurie is a big fan of picking championship people's brains.  I don't ever think it was going to lead to a job offer.  Not for one second.  

And I believe talking with Belicheck helped them get to the point of fixing some things.  

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

It was the only option…in a really bad hiring cycle. Things were at that point.

I don't think firing Siri was ever on the table

Just now, joemas6 said:

I don't think firing Siri was ever on the table

That’s your denial speaking

Just now, joemas6 said:

I don't think firing Siri was ever on the table

Because the first things Siri would point out were the holes on the roster and the fact he didn't pick the 2023 coordinators.  They were never going to fire Siri without hearing his story.  And no way Siri wouldn't make his case with these two points.  From there it was always going to be " how can we fix it" 

  But I totally believe in the always going to pick everybodies brains. Not just champion winning like Bellicheat. I believe every decent football guy would love to pick any and everybodies brains to get different views and ideas. 
  separate this part for clarity: think that’s what they were doing some here before hiring the Bowling Green State coach as QB coach. Think they talked football with a few coaches to pick some brains about the state of things.

Just now, joemas6 said:

Because the first things Siri would point out were the holes on the roster and the fact he didn't pick the 2023 coordinators.  They were never going to fire Siri without hearing his story.  And no way Siri wouldn't make his case with these two points.  From there it was always going to be " how can we fix it" 

Also Lurie will always lean towards not firing coaches and keeping continuity.... WE both should agree Doug was fired because he was too loyal to coaches that Lurie had zero confidence in... Siri was the opposite.   

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Because the first things Siri would point out were the holes on the roster and the fact he didn't pick the 2023 coordinators.  They were never going to fire Siri without hearing his story.  And no way Siri wouldn't make his case with these two points.  From there it was always going to be " how can we fix it" 

And they were going to tell Siri how it was going to play out. You can stay on but are demoted. We’re hiring Fangio and Moore to be in charge of their respective sides of the ball.

Just now, joemas6 said:

Also Lurie will always lean towards not firing coaches and keeping continuity.... WE both should agree Doug was fired because he was too loyal to coaches that Lurie had zero confidence in... Siri was the opposite.   

It was a power struggle…Rosie didn’t want to give Pedey the power to hire his guys. Rosie was going to force the choices on Pedey. Even after being a SB winning HC. Rosie didn’t fire Pedey…he quit. Technically couldn’t play out that way…but the reality is that.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

  But I totally believe in the always going to pick everybodies brains. Not just champion winning like Bellicheat. I believe every decent football guy would love to pick any and everybodies brains to get different views and ideas. 
  separate this part for clarity: think that’s what they were doing some here before hiring the Bowling Green State coach as QB coach. Think they talked football with a few coaches to pick some brains about the state of things.

Do you believe Johnson and Desai were Siri choices?

Do you believe they would have been hired without the new rule of getting a comp pick if your minority coordinator gets hired as a coach

Do you believe Howie and Lurie were a little cocky thinking that they could have success with any coordinator so there was a great chance they would get those comp picks

Me... I believe all 3 of these things.    And that's why I believe it was easy for Lurie to not fire Siri knowing these things were the reason for 2023 failure... and not what Siri envisioned for 2023.  

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Also Lurie will always lean towards not firing coaches and keeping continuity.... WE both should agree Doug was fired because he was too loyal to coaches that Lurie had zero confidence in... Siri was the opposite.   

But do agree on Lurie isn’t a knee jerk acting owner. Exactly why he wasn’t going to hire a one year band aid HC in a bad hiring cycle last offseason. Not unless Siri stood up and demanded his way like Pedey did. Siri took the demotion. Was given his coaches…exactly what Pedey wasn’t taking.

Just now, joemas6 said:

Do you believe Johnson and Desai were Siri choices?

Do you believe they would have been hired without the new rule of getting a comp pick if your minority coordinator gets hired as a coach

Do you believe Howie and Lurie were a little cocky thinking that they could have success with any coordinator so there was a great chance they would get those comp picks

Me... I believe all 3 of these things.    And that's why I believe it was easy for Lurie to not fire Siri knowing these things were the reason for 2023 failure... and not what Siri envisioned for 2023.  

Johnson and Desai…add in Patricia was Rosie

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Johnson and Desai…add in Patricia was Rosie

What about the reasons why they were hired... and where its obvious Lurie couldn't blame Siri for those awful picks

I don’t think it was all about the gaining a pick monkey reasoning like you. Johnson was family friend of Hurts and very hot name they suspected they’d lose if not promoted to OC. Desai they waited..and waited..and waited…because never believed he was even a good DC hire. Very little chance the guy nobody wanted even as a DC was fast tracking to HC like you’re trying to suggest. Desai was hired for the reason of being closest option to place hold for Fangio. Closest one year hire to not rip everything up until Fangio came here knowingly in 2024. So far from being a draft pick generating fast tracking HC hire …they undercut with a deliberate plan to fire him sonewhere midseason with Patricia. I totally saw them replacing Desai with Patricia coming all season long. Not even subtle at all.

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Do you believe Johnson and Desai were Siri choices?

Do you believe they would have been hired without the new rule of getting a comp pick if your minority coordinator gets hired as a coach

Do you believe Howie and Lurie were a little cocky thinking that they could have success with any coordinator so there was a great chance they would get those comp picks

Me... I believe all 3 of these things.    And that's why I believe it was easy for Lurie to not fire Siri knowing these things were the reason for 2023 failure... and not what Siri envisioned for 2023.  

Nope don’t think they were cocky in hiring anybody thoughts. Actually hired Patricia knowing Desai wasn’t a good hire to roster him midseason…all along. But Desai got the DC job because he ran a sort of closest to Fangio sort of scheme. Main reason they hired Desai…not for cocky draft pick believing he was so good…because they knew Fangio was coming here in 2024 all along. So obvious

8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Do you believe Johnson and Desai were Siri choices?

Do you believe they would have been hired without the new rule of getting a comp pick if your minority coordinator gets hired as a coach

Do you believe Howie and Lurie were a little cocky thinking that they could have success with any coordinator so there was a great chance they would get those comp picks

Me... I believe all 3 of these things.    And that's why I believe it was easy for Lurie to not fire Siri knowing these things were the reason for 2023 failure... and not what Siri envisioned for 2023.  

So we only agree on the first part paragraph. As much as I bagged on many issues I wasn’t high on Siri about…never bagged on him for Rosie’s terrible plan with Desai and Patricia.

What’s your view on they hired Patricia for then? Totally got me curious there. It was obvious to me Tpsoe was knowing Desai wasn’t a good DC hire and he was the midseason replacement. About as far off as fast track for Desai to HC as possible to be hired as a DC.

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Johnson and Desai…add in Patricia was Rosie

See you don't like Siri...some of it is what want what you think is a football genius...and some is you will never like his personality.  That's fine.   But you should acknowledge that Lurie likes Siri .. both as a coach (that's why he hired him) because Lurie likes the CEO coach, not the genius O mind... his success prior was Andy and Doug, better with people... Chip was the " O mind hire" that completely backfired as was the low point for Lurie as the only time he fired a coach before the end of the season.    So that should be obvious that Lurie doesn't want the " great O mind"  especially when he has said that multiple times.     

I believe he will be happy with Howie and Siri ...and very easily will replace coordinators if needed. He likes both guys personally, he thinks both are good at their jobs, both are young and only can get better.  Both do what he wants.  

It was obvious Howie didn't give Siri the roster nor the coordinators in 2023.  So other than your reasons of just not liking him personally or wanting " the great O mind" it never made sense to fire Siri.