Time to put Howie back in the basement? - Discuss Howie Roseman here

[Infam]

4 hours ago, NOTW said:

The rest of his drafting has not netted big time star players.  His drafting is mediocre at best. 

Drafting stars with picks that are mediocre at best is difficult.

Way I see it, we will see Hurts, Smith, Goedert and Mailata make that jump. Maybe even Dickerson.

So yeah, that’s all offense. But we drafted way more offense, defense gets mostly FAs..

[Infam]

About time someone said it.

[eglz1]

On 11/14/2021 at 11:30 AM, Vee said:

That's a bit harsh.  See Detroit Lions, NY Jets, Washington WTF, Jacksonville Jaguars for dumpster fires.  (It can get worse)

This upcoming draft will set the trajectory for this franchise for the next decade.  Either they hit and Eagles are back on the rise, or its back to the 1970s for this team.

I hear what you're saying about eating Wentz contract and all.  This team has failed at the draft time and time again.  I really hope they fix it this season.  Like I've mentioned before Reagor over Jefferson....I'm not over that one.

The Accountant at least got this team from out of the awful Chip Kelly deals somehow.  If you can't credit him for that accomplishment, then I don't believe you can have a fair discussion.

Howie is excellent at that sort of thing. If we had Ozzie Newsome's smarter brother doing the drafting and Howie doing trades and contracts, we'd be knee deep in clover. I'm not a fan of Howie's kicking the can down the road with cap space but we'll see how that all ends I guess.

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, eglz1 said:

Howie is excellent at that sort of thing. If we had Ozzie Newsome's smarter brother doing the drafting and Howie doing trades and contracts, we'd be knee deep in clover. I'm not a fan of Howie's kicking the can down the road with cap space but we'll see how that all ends I guess.

Howie can actually be excused out of the "kicking the can down the road” idea too, because the reason why he got power was due to Banner letting Brian Dawkins go and Chip Kelly basically dumping core young players. Lurie vowed to take control of his football team after Chip and basically fired Banner after letting Dawkins walk out the door for being cheap. This whole philosophy of keeping these guys could come from Lurie himself. Heck we all know that they kept Peters way too long, but I don’t know if people realize that Peters and Lurie are very close. This stuff might not even be Howie’s call and ultimately that’s why Lurie defends Howie so vehemently, because Howie is the buffer for Jeff’s choices. 

[Procus]

Here's a clip from Good Morning Football.  Garafolo makes out a good point for Howie keeping the team competitive while locking up young talent and stockpiling picks.

 

[Procus]

So as the season progresses, it's looking more and more as though the Eagles OL - assembled by Howie - is looking to be the best in the league. 

People like to paint things black or white, but the truth is, it's not so clear or easy.  Howie sucks at drafting receivers (although D. Smith looks like a keeper).  But he doesn't get enough credit for drafting Mailata, or Johnson, or Dickerson, or Kelce, or a slew of very capable backups, or signing Brandon Brooks whose a monster when he's healthy and who could make some noise during the playoffs.

[NOTW]

5 hours ago, Procus said:

So as the season progresses, it's looking more and more as though the Eagles OL - assembled by Howie - is looking to be the best in the league. 

People like to paint things black or white, but the truth is, it's not so clear or easy.  Howie sucks at drafting receivers (although D. Smith looks like a keeper).  But he doesn't get enough credit for drafting Mailata, or Johnson, or Dickerson, or Kelce, or a slew of very capable backups, or signing Brandon Brooks whose a monster when he's healthy and who could make some noise during the playoffs.

He didn't draft Kelce, Reid & the O line coach at the time Howard Mudd wanted him...Mudd compared him to Jeff Saturday whom he coached with the Colts.

Lane was an easy pick at #4, everyone knew the top 4 would be the 3 OTs and Dion Jordan. He does pick better with a high pick where it's harder to screw up.

It's also easier to sign a free agent with proven NFL performance in Brooks, but yes he does get credit for signing him.

They've done well drafting O line and getting depth. I think some of that is Stoutland's influence. 

He's drafted terribly on defense, more busts than not at WR, made bad picks taking a JAG and missing out on better players over and over again, kept some older players too long with bad deals who get injured, stressed the cap by giving bad contracts. 

[Procus]

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

He didn't draft Kelce, Reid & the O line coach at the time Howard Mudd wanted him...Mudd compared him to Jeff Saturday whom he coached with the Colts.

Lane was an easy pick at #4, everyone knew the top 4 would be the 3 OTs and Dion Jordan. He does pick better with a high pick where it's harder to screw up.

It's also easier to sign a free agent with proven NFL performance in Brooks, but yes he does get credit for signing him.

So was Reagor Roseman's pick or Lurie's pick?

And with regard to Lane Johnson, two lineman were drafted ahead of him - Luke Joeckel and Eric Fisher - so yes, it's easier to hit on picks when you draft early, but as you see, it's easy to screw them up to.

I agree Roseman should be held accountable for sub-par and boneheaded picks and drafts, but as I said, he also should be credited for some excellent personnel moves vis a vis the offensive line.

[NOTW]

2 hours ago, Procus said:

So was Reagor Roseman's pick or Lurie's pick?

 

As the GM Roseman needs to be responsible. If rumors are true that Lurie meddles then they have an even bigger problem. Supposedly he wanted JJAW. Howie's been here a long time & if he has an issue with Lurie deciding draft picks he can have an assertive conversation about it. If there's dysfunction at the top then that's a real issue and they won't be very successful. 

[Procus]

All I know is that many of the pundits and naysayers have painted the Eagles F.O. to be a dysfunctional mess pretty much since Lurie bought the team.  Everybody was saying that Lurie whiffed when he settled for Rhodes instead of Vermeil.  Remember the bruhaha when the Eagles didn't pull the trigger on a Mark Brunell trade back when Rhodes was the head coach.  The Eagles were painted as one of the worst teams in the league with a bleak future.  Then Andy was hired.  McNabb was drafted and ultimately, his career eclipsed that of Brunell.  And then after the long Reid era, the team was "brilliant" for snagging Chip Kelly, only to have Kelly blow up the team, and they were idiots again.  Nobody wanted to be a head coach for the Eagles, so they had to "settle" for Doug Pederson.  We saw how that turned out.  Then, the Eagles are idiots again at the end of Dougie's reign.  The whole Wentz thing blew up in their faces, and the team hand to "settle" for Siri.  If we look at the Eagles history, this hire will probably turn out well.

What I'm saying is that there are ups and downs here - ebbs and flows.  Good decisions and bad decisions have been made.  But history had demonstrated that the good moves ultimately will outweigh the bad.  You won't be able to discern that from reading what the pundits say - and ultimately, time and time again, it's been shown that the pundits don't know sheet. 

[time2rock]

IMHO as GM Howie fails simply due to his horrendous track record of drafting.  It is hard to know what rumors/reports we've read are true (Lurie meddling in the draft process, Howie not following advice from scouting department and going rogue when making picks, etc.) ... one thing is for sure, the responsibility of talent acquisition falls on him. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

10 hours ago, time2rock said:

IMHO as GM Howie fails simply due to his horrendous track record of drafting.  It is hard to know what rumors/reports we've read are true (Lurie meddling in the draft process, Howie not following advice from scouting department and going rogue when making picks, etc.) ... one thing is for sure, the responsibility of talent acquisition falls on him. 

Howie fails because he picked Reagor over Jefferson. That's enough. 

[time2rock]

17 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Howie fails because he picked Reagor over Jefferson. That's enough. 

That was one of the rumored reports of the board set up by the scouts telling him to take Jefferson and he went against their advice and took Reagor.  There have been too many reports of this same nonsense over the years and for the life of me I cannot remember one of the players he went with his gut over the advice of the scouts working out.  

[EazyEaglez]

Does Howie get credit from Lurie when guys he draft go someplace else and perform well? 

[Eaglesfandan]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Does Howie get credit from Lurie when guys he draft go someplace else and perform well? 

It pisses me off watching Douglass play great in the GB secondary.

[Philthy Jawn]

On 12/25/2021 at 6:36 PM, time2rock said:

There have been too many reports of this same nonsense over the years and for the life of me I cannot remember one of the players he went with his gut over the advice of the scouts working out.  

Milton Williams?

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Philthy Jawn said:

Milton Williams?

I think Williams has had a pretty decent year though? He's a rotational guy and he's made some plays. 

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, Eaglesfandan said:

It pisses me off watching Douglass play great in the GB secondary.

Unfortunately that could be spun as Schwartz making that mistake and not Howie. 

[Dwide Schrude]

3 hours ago, Eaglesfandan said:

It pisses me off watching Douglass play great in the GB secondary.

 

57 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Unfortunately that could be spun as Schwartz making that mistake and not Howie. 

seems pretty fair to say that he was more of a result from lack of coaching/development rather than just a player not being worth developing or unskilled/talented. Douglas was definitely flawed, mainly his speed, but he had some traits that you saw in games where if used right he could be an asset to the defense.  I don’t judge Howie for the Douglas pick. 

[time2rock]

6 hours ago, Philthy Jawn said:

Milton Williams?

Williams wasn't a case of Howie taking a different player because he instead chose one based on his board and not the one set by the scouts).  He "settled" for Williams because he got cute and rather than picking the player they were intending to take (McNeill), Howie traded down a couple of slots ... Detroit ended up taking McNeill with the pick directly before ours.  

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

This topic is funny to read.  With what this team is achieving, Howie's position is getting stronger (not weaker).  10 win potential with this roster, an unknown staff, a limited QB, and a clearly progressing cap and draft situation, Howie will be locked in.  

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

8 hours ago, Eaglesfandan said:

It pisses me off watching Douglass play great in the GB secondary.

Rasul is a bull headed Jim Schwartz issue.  He was a rangy, zone CB coming out that they tried to force into a man corner with no help system.  It's amazing what happens when talent is used to its strengths.

[EazyEaglez]

4 hours ago, Dwide Schrude said:

 

seems pretty fair to say that he was more of a result from lack of coaching/development rather than just a player not being worth developing or unskilled/talented. Douglas was definitely flawed, mainly his speed, but he had some traits that you saw in games where if used right he could be an asset to the defense.  I don’t judge Howie for the Douglas pick. 

People here thought he was a safety. Douglas always had good skills locating the football. His problem was Schwartz would put him in man coverage with no safety help. Douglas probably fits better in Gannon’s scheme than he did with Schwartz. 

[NOTW]

 

 

[NOTW]

On 12/27/2021 at 12:04 AM, Eaglesfandan said:

It pisses me off watching Douglass play great in the GB secondary.

He's been on several teams & finally doing something, he's also on one of the best teams in the league now.