Time to put Howie back in the basement? - Discuss Howie Roseman here

[kiwieagle]

I’m not the biggest Howie fan as he’s blown multiple drafts and the needless extensions / cap mismanagement but this recent class looks to be a good one.

Devonte is a stud, even if lacking in size. He got a lot of heat for the Dickerson pick but early signs are very good. Williams had been OK as a rotational piece and looks like tools are there to develop. Gainwell will have a role in the NFL. Jackson and Johnson making the field and getting snaps as rookies is a good sign but who knows with such late picks.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, kiwieagle said:

I’m not the biggest Howie fan as he’s blown multiple drafts and the needless extensions / cap mismanagement but this recent class looks to be a good one. Devonte is a stud, even if lacking in size. 

He got a lot of heat for the Dickerson pick but early signs are very good. Williams had been OK as a rotational piece and looks like tools are there to develop. Gainwell will have a role in the NFL. Jackson and Johnson making the field and getting snaps as rookies is a good sign but who knows with such late picks.

I agree. Howie needs to be fired (even though he won't be) but credit where credit is due.

Smith is a stud and he gained an extra first in the process. Dickerson has so far, touch wood, managed to stay healthy and has been fantastic at LG. Williams has played well in a rotational role and so has Jackson. And Gainwell looks like a good RB for the future. 

That said, his FA signings were pretty bad. 

[kiwieagle]

3 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

That said, his FA signings were pretty bad. 

We didn’t really have the cap room to make drastic changes. I don’t think Nelson or Harris have been great or anything but they have stabilised the secondary, and Nelson allowed Maddox to move back to his best spot inside. 
 

Kerrigan and Wilson in particular were very bad / disasters

[Philthy Jawn]

9 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I agree. Howie needs to be fired (even though he won't be) but credit where credit is due.

Smith is a stud and he gained an extra first in the process. Dickerson has so far, touch wood, managed to stay healthy and has been fantastic at LG. Williams has played well in a rotational role and so has Jackson. And Gainwell looks like a good RB for the future. 

That said, his FA signings were pretty bad. 

I would say that the 2021 draft class was his best one since 2013 in terms of number of starters, production, and consistency.  So yes, credit where credit is due.

And considering our cap situation (Howie's own doing), it was a miracle that we could sign anyone.

[NOTW]

9 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

We didn’t really have the cap room to make drastic changes. I don’t think Nelson or Harris have been great or anything but they have stabilised the secondary, and Nelson allowed Maddox to move back to his best spot inside. 
 

Kerrigan and Wilson in particular were very bad / disasters

Because they tied up money in long term contracts to guys like Graham, Brooks, Cox, Johnson instead of not restructuring or doing shorter term deals.

[NOTW]

10 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

I’m not the biggest Howie fan as he’s blown multiple drafts and the needless extensions / cap mismanagement but this recent class looks to be a good one.

Devonte is a stud, even if lacking in size. He got a lot of heat for the Dickerson pick but early signs are very good. Williams had been OK as a rotational piece and looks like tools are there to develop. Gainwell will have a role in the NFL. Jackson and Johnson making the field and getting snaps as rookies is a good sign but who knows with such late picks.

I've argued for awhile now that Howie needs the higher picks to make less head-scratching picks.  He also tends to draft better the first year of a new head coach.  Just my opinion but I think he's trying to go with more consensus when there's a new coach to get players they're looking for.  

Chip's first year and with high picks he gets Johnson (a no brainer, everyone knew it would be one of the 3 OTs or Dion Jordan), and Ertz in the 2nd.  Doug's first year traded up a couple times for Wentz, and addressed the O line that Chip ignored by getting Seumalo and Big V.  And Jalen Mills produced a lot for a 7th round pick.  

What will really prove if Howie has improved or not are the future drafts.  He tends to flex his muscles more and override the scouts and coaches after their initial year.  

The 2021 class:

They say to judge a draft about 3 years in.  It's clear DeVonta Smith is a great pick, and again with a higher pick it's easier.  Howie picking in the 20s usually sucks.  With Dickerson, pretty much everyone was fine with him talent wise but his injury history was a concern, especially since the O line has suffered so much injury for several years and they already had a failed 2nd round injury project in Sydney Jones.  If Dickerson can stay healthy, solid pick.  Williams and Gainwell seem like good picks for depth, but you have to judge in a few more years.  Do these guys get 2nd contracts and become starters or key contributors long term?  We've seen players fizzle out.  At one point fans thought Kendricks was a great player, then the next season all of a sudden everyone hated him and wanted him off the team.  Remember Travis Fulgham?  Players don't always last.  I think in paper though, these were good picks.  I didn't have problems with his selections this year other than I would have use the 2nd round pick on the defensive side since talent is lacking there, but I get the upside of taking Dickerson.

Now we'll see what he does with these 3 picks in the 1st and the entire draft class.  And what he does at the QB position.  Let's see how we feel in 2 years after more time observing the 2021 class, the 2022 class and how the team is set up going forward.  

[EazyEaglez]

For as much as we kill Howie (and I’m one of those people too) it should be noted that since Reid left in 2012 Howie has been to the playoffs 5 times now and won a Super Bowl. His drafted players and free agents have now done this with three different coaches. Basically 5 playoff appearances in 8 years. 

[Bwestbrook36]

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

For as much as we kill Howie (and I’m one of those people too) it should be noted that since Reid left in 2012 Howie has been to the playoffs 5 times now and won a Super Bowl. His drafted players and free agents have now done this with three different coaches. Basically 5 playoff appearances in 8 years. 

Like I said in the other thread he is signing his contract extension as we speak lol. He does some how manage to get a quick turn around from what seems like it's going to be a decade of misery. That is now three times under 3 coaches the eagles have had a Quick turn around. 

[EazyEaglez]

5 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Like I said in the other thread he is signing his contract extension as we speak lol. He does some how manage to get a quick turn around from what seems like it's going to be a decade of misery. That is now three times under 3 coaches the eagles have had a Quick turn around. 

This is with players we call trash, and coaches we call idiots. It’s crazy how this engine just keeps going. 

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

This is with players we call trash, and coaches we call idiots. It’s crazy of this engine just keeps going. 

It is, it's freaking weird. I don't recall any team ever being run like this 

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

It is, it's freaking weird. I don't recall any team ever being run like this 

And it’s not something that happens for every team either. How many years have the Giants been bad now? The Lions have been awful for years now too. Somehow everything changes but Howie, yet they quickly find themselves back in the mix. 

[D-Shiznit]

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

And it’s not something that happens for every team either. How many years have the Giants been bad now? The Lions have been awful for years now too. Somehow everything changes but Howie, yet they quickly find themselves back in the mix. 

Because Howie gets one thing right: The trenches.

We consistently have a great O-Line and D-Line.

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Because Howie gets one thing right: The trenches.

We consistently have a great O-Line and D-Line.

People killed him for Dillard though. Also this current defensive line doesn’t get as much push as it has in the past. Then Barnett….. 

[D-Shiznit]

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

People killed him for Dillard though. Also this current defensive line doesn’t get as much push as it has in the past. Then Barnett….. 

Can't get it right 100% of the time, just need to get it right more than the rest, more often.

And he does that in this department.

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Can't get it right 100% of the time, just need to get it right more than the rest, more often.

And he does that in this department.

In any case the harsh truth is he is connected to more winning than people want to accept/admit. 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

9 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Because Howie gets one thing right: The trenches.

We consistently have a great O-Line and D-Line.

I’d say his overcommitment to the QB position is also a boon, even if we don’t always agree with the choices. Despite the hair-pulling at the time, revisionist history says Howie Roseman drafted a playoff QB in the 2nd round last year. He now got a 1 and 3 for Carson when people assured us we couldn’t get a 1 for a broken QB, and our fallback plan is still Minshewmania he got for a 6.

Drafting Carson while Bradford was holding out after just signing a new contract and Chase Daniel feeling cheated somehow worked out fairly well for us. 
 

That one was after he drafted Nick Foles in the third to supplant Vick a year after signing his deal. 
 

They say if you have 2 QBs, then you really have 0. But for Howie he does always seem to actually have 2 QBs.

[Aerolithe_Lion]

9 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

People killed him for Dillard though. Also this current defensive line doesn’t get as much push as it has in the past. Then Barnett….. 

The Dillard one I’m not as mad about. Dillard may be a starter for us right now if it wasn’t for a steal where Howie should also be commended.

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

The Dillard one I’m not as mad about. Dillard may be a starter for us right now if it wasn’t for a steal where Howie should also be commended.

Everyone has killed Howie for a lot of things over the years (including myself), but truthfully he’s been one of the most successful GMs since he took over fully once Andy left. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Everyone has killed Howie for a lot of things over the years (including myself), but truthfully he’s been one of the most successful GMs since he took over fully once Andy left. 

ESP makes this point... Their record with him as GM is like top 10 in the league or something like that. They make the play offs more often than they don't. I mean I don't like him and I don't rate him but that is hard to argue against. 

[D-Shiznit]

Howie's standing and reputation with the fans would be night and day different, if he had just drafted Jefferson over Reagor.

That pick was so all-time bad and obvious to anyone watching. It's hard to get past that.

[EazyEaglez]

5 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Howie's standing and reputation with the fans would be night and day different, if he had just drafted Jefferson over Reagor.

That pick was so all-time bad and obvious to anyone watching. It's hard to get past that.

I feel like Howie’s rep was tarnished even before that point. Heck most people supported Chip taking over. That Marcus Smith pick might have been far more inexcusable. 

[NOTW]

 

 

 

 

[ManchesterEagle]

On 12/29/2021 at 6:03 PM, NOTW said:

I've argued for awhile now that Howie needs the higher picks to make less head-scratching picks.  He also tends to draft better the first year of a new head coach.  Just my opinion but I think he's trying to go with more consensus when there's a new coach to get players they're looking for.  

Chip's first year and with high picks he gets Johnson (a no brainer, everyone knew it would be one of the 3 OTs or Dion Jordan), and Ertz in the 2nd.  Doug's first year traded up a couple times for Wentz, and addressed the O line that Chip ignored by getting Seumalo and Big V.  And Jalen Mills produced a lot for a 7th round pick.  

What will really prove if Howie has improved or not are the future drafts.  He tends to flex his muscles more and override the scouts and coaches after their initial year.  

The 2021 class:

They say to judge a draft about 3 years in.  It's clear DeVonta Smith is a great pick, and again with a higher pick it's easier.  Howie picking in the 20s usually sucks.  With Dickerson, pretty much everyone was fine with him talent wise but his injury history was a concern, especially since the O line has suffered so much injury for several years and they already had a failed 2nd round injury project in Sydney Jones.  If Dickerson can stay healthy, solid pick.  Williams and Gainwell seem like good picks for depth, but you have to judge in a few more years.  Do these guys get 2nd contracts and become starters or key contributors long term?  We've seen players fizzle out.  At one point fans thought Kendricks was a great player, then the next season all of a sudden everyone hated him and wanted him off the team.  Remember Travis Fulgham?  Players don't always last.  I think in paper though, these were good picks.  I didn't have problems with his selections this year other than I would have use the 2nd round pick on the defensive side since talent is lacking there, but I get the upside of taking Dickerson.

Now we'll see what he does with these 3 picks in the 1st and the entire draft class.  And what he does at the QB position.  Let's see how we feel in 2 years after more time observing the 2021 class, the 2022 class and how the team is set up going forward.  

 

On 1/3/2022 at 1:44 PM, Aerolithe_Lion said:

The Dillard one I’m not as mad about. Dillard may be a starter for us right now if it wasn’t for a steal where Howie should also be commended.

 

On 1/3/2022 at 4:08 PM, EazyEaglez said:

Everyone has killed Howie for a lot of things over the years (including myself), but truthfully he’s been one of the most successful GMs since he took over fully once Andy left. 

I've been pretty neutral on Howie for the last 2-3 years. I agree with most of NOTW's well thought out analysis.

I was of the view that he should be judged this year on Hurts and so far he gets a tentative tick for that. It's not easy to find a QB in the second round who develops into a decent starter in his second year. Let's see if he can continue to grow.

2018 was a fantastic draft, even though he only took 5 players. 2019 looks awful. I think Howie benefits from a fantastic OL coach in Stoutland. However I also think he is hurt by bad WR coaching (yes talent is an issue, but we really don't seem to be able to develop young WRs. Smith was pretty polished when he arrived).

He is good with the cap, although some of his contracts to ageing players look like bad decisions now.

He has a number of faults, but he's not the disaster some make him out to be.

All in and whether we like it or not he will get another year at least, particularly with Hurts and the 2021 class looking promising. He needs to nail these three first rounders though (and hopefully turns one into a 2023 first or second).

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

I've been pretty neutral on Howie for the last 2-3 years. I agree with most of NOTW's well thought out analysis.

I was of the view that he should be judged this year on Hurts and so far he gets a tentative tick for that. It's not easy to find a QB in the second round who develops into a decent starter in his second year. Let's see if he can continue to grow.

2018 was a fantastic draft, even though he only took 5 players. 2019 looks awful. I think Howie benefits from a fantastic OL coach in Stoutland. However I also think he is hurt by bad WR coaching (yes talent is an issue, but we really don't seem to be able to develop young WRs. Smith was pretty polished when he arrived).

He is good with the cap, although some of his contracts to ageing players look like bad decisions now.

He has a number of faults, but he's not the disaster some make him out to be.

All in and whether we like it or not he will get another year at least, particularly with Hurts and the 2021 class looking promising. He needs to nail these three first rounders though (and hopefully turns one into a 2023 first or second).

Every GM has ups and downs. Every GM makes mistakes. Despite all of the turnover around the Eagles they always seem to bounce back quickly. He’s been one of the constants. So far he hasn’t drafted a lot of all pro level talent, but he has produced playoff teams and a SB team. Meanwhile the Giants have double digit loss teams for like 8 consecutive years now. Is he the best? No, but he’s not the dumpster fire we all like to make him out to be either. 

[Infam]

On 1/4/2022 at 7:02 PM, NOTW said:

 

 

As usual a super **** take from BLG.

He was first in line to celebrate the Wentz extension, now he acts like it was a stupid decision and he knew better. He‘s full of ish and almost anyone here is too when it comes to these calls. 

Noone gets all of them right, and I bet you would all be poor GMs. It‘s almost comical how I read ‚have to give him credit for this, have to give him credit for that, BUT‘. 

To me it‘s obvious he is doing a really good job. And the main thing people miss about it is: It‘s not just athletics and stats. A player may run fast and catch balls and be successful one day and then storm off half naked at half time. That‘s the reason Dallas always Fs up too.

You need to build a team. You have to find guys with the right character. All say that, but not many teams really do put their money where their mouth is.

And I would argue our players are for the absolute most part high character guys. Which is why we won a superbowl. Which is why we always fight. Which is why we usually ‚overachieve‘.

It matters.