Time to put Howie back in the basement? - Discuss Howie Roseman here

[CouchKing]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:23 PM, EazyEaglez said:

For as much as we kill Howie (and I’m one of those people too) it should be noted that since Reid left in 2012 Howie has been to the playoffs 5 times now and won a Super Bowl. His drafted players and free agents have now done this with three different coaches. Basically 5 playoff appearances in 8 years. 

Did we have a good draft last year? Maybe.

[Procus]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:23 PM, EazyEaglez said:

For as much as we kill Howie (and I’m one of those people too) it should be noted that since Reid left in 2012 Howie has been to the playoffs 5 times now and won a Super Bowl. His drafted players and free agents have now done this with three different coaches. Basically 5 playoff appearances in 8 years. 

He also hired the head coach, got a nice return for Wentz, made a nice trade down with Miami, drafted Mailata in the 7th round, had some good contract extensions among other things.  Yes, he made a terrible move passing on Jefferson and drafting Reagor - but who is in the playoffs right now and who is on the outside looking in?

[Procus]

On 12/29/2021 at 2:54 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I agree. Howie needs to be fired (even though he won't be) but credit where credit is due.

Smith is a stud and he gained an extra first in the process. Dickerson has so far, touch wood, managed to stay healthy and has been fantastic at LG. Williams has played well in a rotational role and so has Jackson. And Gainwell looks like a good RB for the future. 

That said, his FA signings were pretty bad. 

How was his hiring of the head coach?  What about the Darius Slay trade? 

Birds were cap strapped if you recall and couldn't sign any premier FA's last year.

[Procus]

On 12/29/2021 at 3:02 AM, kiwieagle said:

Kerrigan and Wilson in particular were very bad / disasters

A disaster is when you blow a lot of money on a FA and he doesn't pan out.  When you don't spend a lot on a player and he doesn't pan out, it's not that big of a deal.  The Birds did not sign Kerrigan or Wilson to big contracts.

[kiwieagle]

39 minutes ago, Procus said:

A disaster is when you blow a lot of money on a FA and he doesn't pan out.  When you don't spend a lot on a player and he doesn't pan out, it's not that big of a deal.  The Birds did not sign Kerrigan or Wilson to big contracts.

Fair enough. They were low risk from a monetary compensation perspective but just didn’t address the need they were brought in for. Wilson was terrible when on the field but luckily TJ Edwards and Davison pre-injury stepped up to make it moot. Lack of depth at DE is a bit of an issue for this team as we head into the playoffs. That’s where Kerrigan hurts - opportunity cost of signing over someone else who would give us better play. 

[Philthy Jawn]

48 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

Fair enough. They were low risk from a monetary compensation perspective but just didn’t address the need they were brought in for. Wilson was terrible when on the field but luckily TJ Edwards and Davison pre-injury stepped up to make it moot. Lack of depth at DE is a bit of an issue for this team as we head into the playoffs. That’s where Kerrigan hurts - opportunity cost of signing over someone else who would give us better play. 

Folks praised the Kerrigan signing at the time, not sure anyone could have predicted that he would have fallen off a cliff so fast.  And really, not sure we had enough cap space to sign better players (were they available?).   I'm happy what money there was Howie used to extend players already on the roster, like Goedert and Maddox. 

[kiwieagle]

38 minutes ago, Philthy Jawn said:

Folks praised the Kerrigan signing at the time, not sure anyone could have predicted that he would have fallen off a cliff so fast.  And really, not sure we had enough cap space to sign better players (were they available?).   I'm happy what money there was Howie used to extend players already on the roster, like Goedert and Maddox. 

Agreed. Goedert is coming into his own and Maddox back inside are solid young talents. Good they will be around for a while. 

[Bwestbrook36]

1 hour ago, Philthy Jawn said:

Folks praised the Kerrigan signing at the time, not sure anyone could have predicted that he would have fallen off a cliff so fast.  And really, not sure we had enough cap space to sign better players (were they available?).   I'm happy what money there was Howie used to extend players already on the roster, like Goedert and Maddox. 

I think Kerrigan already fell off a cliff.... He had 5.5 sacks last year and 3.5 of them were against us lol. Considering how bad our line was last year the Redskins probably figured he was washed being that the majority of his sacks came against us. 

[Infam]

5 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I think Kerrigan already fell off a cliff.... He had 5.5 sacks last year and 3.5 of them were against us lol. Considering how bad our line was last year the Redskins probably figured he was washed being that the majority of his sacks came against us. 

The most important cliffs were Wentz and Covid. And only an idiot would blame Roseman for not seeing these coming.

I think he made the best of a bad situation there.

[Mike030270]

Fire Howie

[EazyEaglez]

14 hours ago, CouchKing said:

Did we have a good draft last year? Maybe.

Some of his last year picks have contributed to this playoff team, and the Hargrave signing looks much better now than it did last season. 

[Infam]

13 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Some of his last year picks have contributed to this playoff team, and the Hargrave signing looks much better now than it did last season. 

I know people here really don‘t like him, but I think the Nelson signing was pretty good for us too.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, Infam said:

I know people here really don‘t like him, but I think the Nelson signing was pretty good for us too.

No doubt about it. I think he's been a good #2. He's not set the world alight but he has done fine. He's not been a major issue and in fact in most games I don't recall him being an issue at all. 

[EazyEaglez]

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

No doubt about it. I think he's been a good #2. He's not set the world alight but he has done fine. He's not been a major issue and in fact in most games I don't recall him being an issue at all. 

I don’t think he gets a lot of turnovers and I do think he gets called for a lot of PIs. Just to put it into perspective Nelso has stated all 16 games for the Eagles and has one pick with 7 passes defended. Rasul Douglas for the Packers has played in only 11 games for the Packers (started in 8 games) has 13 passes defended, 5 interceptions, a forced fumble, and 2 touchdowns. Nelson when you really think about it is just a more expensive Jalen Mills. 

[nipples]

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t think he gets a lot of turnovers and I do think he gets called for a lot of PIs. Just to put it into perspective Nelso has stated all 16 games for the Eagles and has one pick with 7 passes defended. Rasul Douglas for the Packers has played in only 11 games for the Packers (started in 8 games) has 13 passes defended, 5 interceptions, a forced fumble, and 2 touchdowns. Nelson when you really think about it is just a more expensive Jalen Mills. 

Schwartz and that coaching staff really dropped the ball with Rasul. The fact that he recently came out and said he never learned how to watch film until he got to Green Bay says a lot about how the DBs were coached. My biggest gripe with Schwartz was how EVERYONE they tried in the secondary played like crap… that isn’t just bad luck. 

[nipples]

6 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Anyone thinks that Howie has turned the corner because we beat crappy teams the second half of the season is delusional.  Who’s the last pro bowl player the Eagles drafted, that’s on the team.  I’ll answer.  Lane Johnson. 

There’s more to being a GM than drafting. Even if we’re talking draft, I think pro bowls is kind of a weak criteria to assess success.
 

I’m not a Howie fanboy by any means, but he has to be given some credit at some point. They’ve made the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 years, and have won a Super Bowl during that time.  If he was the complete disaster that some believe, that wouldn’t have happened. 

If we’re talking draft and pro bowls though, I have zero doubt that Smith will be a pro bowler soon. Dickerson is also looking like a stud for the long-term, and could very well make some pro bowls. 

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Hurts has made some strides this year. He’s an alternate for the pro bowl, which means he was just short of making it, in his first year as a starter. 

[nipples]

41 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

If you don’t care about Pro Bowls then let’s talk about good players under 25.  Smith.  Dickerson. And Mailata?   That’s it.  Defense?  I wouldn’t consider even Sweat as a good young player.  Decent.  Sure.  But nothing any other teams would be envious of.  
 

Speaking of weak criteria.  Making the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. Super Bowl was glorious, no doubt, but the other years? One was with 10 wins with an old team on its last legs.  Another by winning a terrible division with 9 wins.  And this year because there’s 7 playoff teams now and they played a jokingly easy schedule the last half of the season.  
 

Everyone knew Dickerson was a stud.  That shouldn’t have surprised anyone.  The knock on him is his health.  So far so good.  But never use "long term” when talking about Dickerson.  He hasn’t finished 4 of his last 5 full seasons because of injuries.  So he’s always a risk.  
 

Hurts an alternate?  Give me a break.  It’s certainly not because of his passing.  He is not a good passing QB. When the offense turned the corner is when they started to limit his drop backs.  That’s all we should need to know. Do I need to remind any Philly fan about the danger of getting excited about a running QB?  I’d hope not.  

Hey you’re the one that started bringing up pro bowls as criteria for a good draft pick, but now that I bring it up with Hurts there’s an excuse as to why it doesn’t matter.

All arguments aside, the fact is there are few "great” GMs in the league. Show me more than a small handful of teams that are consistently good because of how they are built. The list is small.
 

KC? Baltimore? Pittsburgh…maybe? New England? That’s about all I can come up with. Now how many teams have been far, far less successful than the Eagles over the past decade or so? That list is much longer. 
 

Bottom line is there are few GMs in the league who are consistently good. All you can really base it on is the success of the team. Whether you want to admit or not, Howie is easily in the top half of the league, probably top 10 based on the level of success the teams he’s put together have had.  
 

 

[PoconoDon]

At the end of the day players defeat players to win a game. Greater talent usually defeats lesser talent during that victory. JOB #1 for a GM is talent acquisition so his team has the greater talent. The best (by far) way of acquiring greater talent is in the draft. It's the first test that must be passed in order to remain the GM. Howie has failed that test far too often to remain the GM in my opinion.

Job #2 for a GM is salary cap management. Howie has kicked the can down the road so much that they are often up against the cap with a lot of dead money, and without the Wentz hit. If he was totally out of the talent evaluation/acquisition process, maybe he'd be better at constructing contracts and managing the cap, which would help the team get even more great talent through FA rather than using FA to plug holes from failed drafts.

To me, if one was starting or buying a professional football team, the most important hire and the first hire is the GM. A truly great GM is hard to find, so dump the resources necessary into that search and go get one no matter the cost. A great GM builds a great player personnel department on both the college and pro sides and thereby identifies and acquires top shelf talent regularly. Nobody is perfect, but a great GM usually builds and maintains a great team over time. Howie is not a great GM.

[EazyEaglez]

I believe the "kick the can down the road” mentality is not Howie. It’s the owner. The Eagles in the past never would do it. The always sent guys packing before the got the second big contract. In fact one of the few guys back in the day who got the second big contract was McNabb. Most of the time the team dumped players like Trotter, Douglas, Taylor, and Vincent. I think it all hit the fan with Dawkins. When Banner lowballed Dawkins and he left the Eagles it created a rift between him and Lurie which ultimately pushed him out the door. Enter Howie and since that time there have been a lot more kick the can down the road situations especially after 2017 trying to keep the SB magic. Jason Peters was absolutely Lurie guy so what is Howie supposed to do there? He can’t dump Lurie’s best friend without the owner’s approval. Now we are hearing more and more about Lurie’s involvement in the drafts as well. When Chip left the Eagles told us they were moving more towards a "collaborative effort” and the Owner himself told us this. Howie isn’t operating on his own. Frankly I don’t know how many GMs would be willing to operate under the Eagles work style. Frankly I don’t know any coach with any real kind of pedigree would want to work under the Eagles FO style at all. 

[eglz1]

On 4/24/2020 at 12:07 AM, PhillyFan4Life9 said:

The ability to run 4.3 yet jump at 42 inches is rare

Impressive -- in track and field. We're talking about football. You know, being able to run routes, catch the ball, that sort of thing.

[Arsenal79]

My man Howie has been redeemed.

Out of the closet and back to the corner office!

[EazyEaglez]

The best movie Howie can make would be to separate himself from the two mistakes of JJAW and Reagor as soon as possible and bring in someone who can help us quickly forget they were ever here. 

[Mike030270]

Howie needs to admit his failure and cut JJAW

 

Also Fire Howie

[UK_EaglesFan89]

17 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Howie needs to admit his failure and cut JJAW

 

Also Fire Howie

And cut Reagor. 

[Traveler Vic]

In light of Wentz chocking..many Philadelphia newspapers point out how smart was Howie, in Getting rid of Wentz. I am not going to argue the obvious that Wentz had to go...but I do not think that smart had anything to do with it. Wentz departure was precipitated by an NFL Record worst offensive line, and bad coaching. Wentz certainly played a large part in his downfall. Howie only did the obvious and recouped some of the lost capital. The 3rd was traded to move up for Smith in this 2021 years draft, and that certainly worked out. Howie does get points for that. Next year we will have probably an 18th pick from the Colts as well. For next year...I do not hold my breath in thinking that all of the sudden Howie became prophet draft guru. I fully expect him to screw up in the next year's draft, because at the end of the day he is an average GM with some wins and some misses. But like the ending of "Ratatouille", a kid inside of me is waiting for the next year's draft, and says: "Surprise me!"