EMB Blog: 2021 Offseason

[HazletonEagle]

40 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I am serious, the dude pee in your Cheerios or something???

What have Howard kerryon Killian's holyfield shown that would make one " want" those guys to make the team more than Huntley???

I don't really care who makes the team, I want the best guy for whatever role.

The 4th back is going to need to playy teams, I think Huntley is a better fit for that role than howard and Kerryon

cant tell if serious again 

[RememberTheKoy]

15 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Don’t be dense. I won’t apologize for having higher standards than you. 

 

I don't think you have higher standards.  I think you have terrible standards.  You'd rather a Sheldon Gibson or Hightower as a depth WR than someone who is extremely dependable and can actually come in and be counted on to help in important situations if need be.  

[eagle45]

6 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I don't think you have higher standards.  I think you have terrible standards.  You'd rather a Sheldon Gibson or Hightower as a depth WR than someone who is extremely dependable and can actually come in and be counted on to help in important situations if need be.  

What on Earth is Ward going to help with?

6 yard receptions on 3rd and 10?

[Iggles_Phan]

12 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Actually, we were talking depth WRs so I wasn’t including them in the top three, including Ward but unfortunately one will have to be #3. I suspect and kind of hope that #3 is a platoon of Ward (slot and maybe some X where he does okay on the Greg Lewis route), Fulgham, (x and maybe some slot - he has good agility so he should be able to play some slot) and Watkins (z and maybe some X) with both Smith and Reagor playing all 3 of the x,y and z positions).   Hightower if not Watkins (but limited in his z routes because of ball tracking and maybe some slot but he isn’t overly agile).  Thing with Hightower and Watkins is they are both body catchers although Hightower does use his hands at times but both have drop issues. (Hope Smith and Ward rub off on them for their hands).  JJAW?  (Fool’s gold at this point to me.)

JJAW isn't fool's gold.    This is JJAW...

[ManuManu]

 

[RememberTheKoy]

18 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

What on Earth is Ward going to help with?

6 yard receptions on 3rd and 10?

 

He was huge on 3rd down receptions for 1st downs in 2019.  He was big in 2020 on TDs on 3rd and 4th down.  But hey, keep being ignorant.  I see value of a great locker room guy who rarely ever drops a ball no matter the size of the moment whereas you see value of guys who can't catch but can make a flashy play. 

 

 

 

[Utebird]

29 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

cant tell if serious again 

😄

Seriously though, I loved Kerryon Johnson coming out of college and his injuries have left him a shell of himself , I think theres a fair amount of taters who think kerryon is an automatic to make the roster because he's a recognizable name who was drafted early and had early success but that guy is long gone and what's left isn't much.

As much as I like Howard he's a relic of the past, he's a volume RB and as the 4th back getting a carry or two here or there doesn't seem like worth keeping him around if he doesn't play teams.

Killian's and holyfield who knows but I think Huntley would have a leg up on both.

We'll see how it goes and who ends up on the roster.

 

[ManuManu]

26 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I don't think you have higher standards.  I think you have terrible standards.  You'd rather a Sheldon Gibson or Hightower as a depth WR than someone who is extremely dependable and can actually come in and be counted on to help in important situations if need be.  

A backup slot-only receiver who doesn’t play special teamers (please don’t mention him as a PR) has very little utility on a team that wants their WRs to be interchangeable. And, no, being able to line up on the outside is not the same thing as being interchangeable. 

Am I happy with how underwhelming our receivers have been? Of course not. Am I happy with how Ward played in the 70 percent of our offensive snaps? Of course not. These aren’t mutually exclusive things. 

[Iggles_Phan]

41 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

Alright... I like this... 

[RememberTheKoy]

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

A backup slot-only receiver who doesn’t play special teamers (please don’t mention him as a PR) has very little utility on a team that wants their WRs to be interchangeable. And, no, being able to line up on the outside is not the same thing as being interchangeable. 

Am I happy with how I hired and underwhelming our receivers have been? Of course not. Am I happy with how Ward played in the 70 percent of our offensive snaps? Of course not. These aren’t mutually exclusive things. 

 

But he can play special teams.  And he is interchangeable, he played all over on the offense at the end of 2019.  You're a foolish fan that expects someone to be a star at every spot of the 53 man roster but is unable to appreciate a guy who is just flat out extremely dependable and able to play his role.  

[ManuManu]

11 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He was huge on 3rd down receptions for 1st downs in 2019.  He was big in 2020 on TDs on 3rd and 4th down.  But hey, keep being ignorant.  I see value of a great locker room guy who rarely ever drops a ball no matter the size of the moment whereas you see value of guys who can't catch but can make a flashy play. 

 

 

 

That top video was one of the sorriest highlight videos I’ve ever seen. Slant flat combo. Beating LBs. Zero YAC. Made maybe one guy miss the whole time. His best play downfield was in the second quarter of a preseason game. 

[ManuManu]

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

But he can play special teams.  And he is interchangeable, he played all over on the offense at the end of 2019.  You're a foolish fan that expects someone to be a star at every spot of the 53 man roster but is unable to appreciate a guy who is just flat out extremely dependable and able to play his role.  

Again, lining up on the outside is not the same as being able to play passably on the outside. And what proof do you have that he can play special teams once he’s replaced as PR?

 

[RememberTheKoy]

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

That top video was one of the sorriest highlight videos I’ve ever seen. Slant flat combo. Beating LBs. Zero YAC. Made maybe one guy miss the whole time. His best play downfield was in the second quarter of a preseason game. 

 

Again, you only see value in someone who is capable of being a star.  What I saw was a guy consistently catching the ball and getting first downs.  He's possession WR.  

[Iggles_Phan]

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

But he can play special teams.  And he is interchangeable, he played all over on the offense at the end of 2019.  You're a foolish fan that expects someone to be a star at every spot of the 53 man roster but is unable to appreciate a guy who is just flat out extremely dependable and able to play his role.  

No, he can't.  He plays poorly at punt returner.   Ward is not dependable as a returner, nor is he capable in that role.  

[Utebird]

14 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

But he can play special teams.  And he is interchangeable, he played all over on the offense at the end of 2019.  You're a foolish fan that expects someone to be a star at every spot of the 53 man roster but is unable to appreciate a guy who is just flat out extremely dependable and able to play his role.  

Question, how did you feel about Reno Mahe???

Ward is a slightly better Reno Mahe.

Mahe stuck in the roster because he could could do a lot of things just well enough if the team needed him in a pinch.

He could return kicks and punts, actually led the league in PR ave one year, people would say yeah but he fair caught everything, true he had a lot of fair catches but he was smart and didn't muff them or let them bounce and get 20 more yards behind him like ward.

Mahe could play RB and slot WR in a pinch and he was on coverage teams.

Ward is similar except he really sucks at PR whereas Mahe was serviceable 

Ward obviously offers more as a WR but not much, he was used In the offense as basically an outlet receiver much like a team would use a RB coming out of the backfield, the few down the field catches he had were broken coverages.

I like ward I think he's a great teammate  works hard and is somewhat a leader in the WR room and if ward is the leading receiver on ones team something has gone horribly wrong 

Hes a 4th 5th receiver at best.

[RememberTheKoy]

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Again, lining up on the outside is not the same as being able to play passably on the outside. And what proof do you have that he can play special teams once he’s replaced as PR?

 

 

But he was able to play passably on the outside.  He was a very key part of the Eagles getting into the playoffs at the end of 2019.  

What proof do you have that he can't play special teams once he is replaced as PR?  Is there something about him that leads you to believe he wouldn't do what he is asked to do?  That he wouldn't put in effort on special teams in another role?  Because that is all special teams is, guys who are asked to do the grunt work and put all their effort into it and guys who don't make it on special teams are guys with egos that feel like they are only going to play their position on offense or defense.  

[ManuManu]

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Again, you only see value in someone who is capable of being a star.  What I saw was a guy consistently catching the ball and getting first downs.  He's possession WR.  

I’m aware of what he is. Thanks for clarifying that he’s a possession receiver. I couldn’t get that from his low yards per catch and minimal YAC ability. 

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, Utebird said:

Question, how did you feel about Reno Mahe???

Ward is a slightly better Reno Mahe.

Mahe stuck in the roster because he could could do a lot of things just well enough if th team needed him to in a pinch.

He could return kicks and punts, actually led the league in PR ave on year, people would say yeah but he fair caught everything, true he had a lot of fair catches but he was smart and didn't muff them or let them bounce and get 20 more yards behind him like ward.

Mahe could play RB and slot WR in a lunch and he was on coverage teams.

Ward is similar except he really sucks at PR whereas Mahe was serviceable 

Ward obviously offers more as a WR but not much, he was used In the offense as basically an outlet receiver much like a team would use a RB coming out of the backfield, the few down the field catches he had were broken coverages.

I like ward I think he's a great teammate  works hard and is somewhat a leader in the WR room and if ward is the leading receiver on ones team something has gone horribly wrong 

Hes a 4th 5th receiver at best.

Mahe was a better PR than Ward, because he fair caught so much.  Ward lets the ball bounce way too much.

[ManuManu]

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

But he was able to play passably on the outside.  He was a very key part of the Eagles getting into the playoffs at the end of 2019.  

What proof do you have that he can't play special teams once he is replaced as PR?  Is there something about him that leads you to believe he wouldn't do what he is asked to do?  That he wouldn't put in effort on special teams in another role?  Because that is all special teams is, guys who are asked to do the grunt work and put all their effort into it and guys who don't make it on special teams are guys with egos that feel like they are only going to play their position on offense or defense.  

Theoretically anyone can play special teams based on your definition. That doesn’t mean he’s a good enough at it to play it. Obviously Fipp didn’t see him that way. 

If he can develop into a good special teamer, great. That would certainly make him more useful as a WR4. 

[RememberTheKoy]

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I’m aware of what he is. Thanks for clarifying that he’s a possession receiver. I couldn’t get that from his low yards per catch and minimal YAC ability. 

 

He's a possession WR that rarely drops the ball.  No other WR on this team that we have seen play can say that.  It's so sad that you don't see the value in a WR that you can actually depend on to catch the ball when thrown to them.  

[RememberTheKoy]

Just now, ManuManu said:

Theoretically anyone can play special teams based on your definition. That doesn’t mean he’s a good enough at it to play it. Obviously Fipp didn’t see him that way. 

If he can develop into a good special teamer, great. That would certainly make him more useful as a WR4. 

 

Yes, anyone can play special teams but not everyone has that mentality to be willing to do whatever is asked to of them to the best of their ability to actually play specials teams.  Obviously Fipp did see it that way seeing as Greg Ward was playing special teams as a PR for us the past two seasons.  

[ManuManu]

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He's a possession WR that rarely drops the ball.  No other WR on this team that we have seen play can say that.  It's so sad that you don't see the value in a WR that you can actually depend on to catch the ball when thrown to them.  

It’s sad that our WRs have been so bad that you see a player like Ward as valuable. 

It’s like Stockholm syndrome or something. 

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Yes, anyone can play special teams but not everyone has that mentality to be willing to do whatever is asked to of them to the best of their ability to actually play specials teams.  Obviously Fipp did see it that way seeing as Greg Ward was playing special teams as a PR for us the past two seasons.  

No S. He’s a bad PR though. You know it. I know it. And he didn’t play anywhere else on ST. 

[Utebird]

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Mahe was a better PR than Ward, because he fair caught so much.  Ward lets the ball bounce way too much.

Yup I remember yelling at the tv more than a few times as ward would let the ball bounce and it would go 20-30 more yards 😡

Mahe wasn't flashy but he was smart and sure handed.

[ManuManu]

Yup. Carroll is an incredibly overrated coach. 

[BigEFly]

6 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

I don't have any dislike for Ward or Scott; I just see them as limited players who currently hold bottom of the roster spots for a 4-win team.  By definition, for a team to improve from 4 wins to a playoff team, those players need to be improved upon for the team to get where it needs to go.

Both Hightower and Watkins are late-round picks.  I don't expect them to be better than Ward but it would be nice if the Eagles hit on one of them.  They have a similar pedigree to Boston Scott, who was a #201 overall pick.  These guys don't usually stick in the NFL for any length of time (I know, Brady -- before a certain poster chimes in).  We'll see what Gainwell has to offer -- I believe as a receiving back he has better hands and fluidity than either Scott or Sanders, for that matter.  Hopefully he can become the #2 RB and Scott can be a #3, which is where he really should be.

 

For Gainwell to have better hands than Scott would be impressive.  Scott had no drops last year.  If Sanders can recover from last year and either Johnson can get healthy and recover his form or Howard can, a four back rotation that includes Gainwell and Scott would be fun.   I could see two back formations with Sanders and both Scott and Gainwell and maybe even some two back formations with Scott and Gainwell.  Send one of them in motion and get the other team really guessing on third and 3/4.  You have screens, draws, slants, hitches, and even outside runs available depending on the safety/OLB or Nickel adjustments.  My only concern is how Hurts throws the short over the middle pass to shorter targets.  Not sure we have #2, #3, #4 RBs as much as pieces on a chessboard.  Scott will be so much better with good G play.  I was surprised when I was checking snap counts that after Kelce, Herbig had the second most OL snaps.  With a healthy Brooks, Seumalo and when Dickerson gets healthy even a svelte faster Herbig (assuming the rumors are true) is #4 on the IOL depth chart.  Imagine Scott, with his 4.0 speed and ability to get yards after contact hiding on Dickerson’s hip as he throws players out of the way and Scott burst free.  We saw some of that on his long runs.