Anyone got a bad feeling the Eagles will draft a QB in the first round?

[Random Reglar]

13 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

That’s a story that has been denied by Wilson’s teammates and coaches.  
 So the bigger question is which slimy, weaselly, slimy, NFL GM would put a story out there to hurt Wilson’s draft stock so he falls a bit in the draft?  Hmmm. 
 Josh Allen’s tweets come back,  Larry Tunsil gas mask, again which NFL GM would pull this stuff off, or have it done for them, Belichick, cough, Roseman, cough, any of them really. 

BYU has the first team PFF All American Tackle.  How can you possibly do bad against teams like North Alabama,  Troy and Texas State?

This guy had a losing record and a 130.8 passer rating the year before.  But they did play a handful of games against teams you know the names of.  The North Alabama whats?  BYU did play USC, Tennessee, Utah and Washington.      The other 2 QBs that year,  2019, Baylor Romney and Jaren Hall had higher passer ratings than Wilson.  Wilson did have a great game against UMass, with 4 TDs and 0 INTs and a 274.1 passer rating.  That excellent game against the Massachusetts Minutemen,  brought his passer rating up to 130.8.   He had difficulty with Hawaii and San Diego State. Lost 13-3 against San Diego State,  0 TDs 2 Ints,  and threw the ball 53 times.  Seems like he was hot garbage just last year against San Diego State.  But San Diego State wasn't a bad team in 2019,  going 9-3.  Wilson is good enough to beat teams like North Alabama, and UMass, but gets stomped by San Diego State.  Wilson also had 0 TDs 2 Ints against Hawaii, but they did score 34 points in a loss.  Cole McDonald had 4 tds and 0 ints in that game.  If McDonald has a relative who owned an airline,  we could've been saying that McDonald was excellent at things tha can't be qualified.

If a team drafts Wilson, do they get a free 747 as part of the deal?  Or is it just pay to praise? 

[Random Reglar]

22 minutes ago, Jeep_man said:

Kyle Pitts might be the next OJ Howard, definitely not worth Pick no.6..

Smith and Chase might be the next Corey Coleman, or any of a list of top 1st WRs who really weren't any good at all.  Kevin White?  John Ross? 

OJ Howard has a pretty nice yards per target over his career.  10.1 is pretty good, career.  and he's put up a decent number of catches.

If OJ Howard is your worst case scenario,  that's not bad.  There are a lot of worse choices, pointed out above,  of WR failures.   Just last year,  Ruggs and Reagor haven't exactly been tearing it up, but they've been better than those other 3.

Finding a 6'6 TE or WR who is also fast is pretty rare, and it seems like something you want.  You'd want one who is a bit of a better jumper than OJ Howard 30.5 vert.

Finding a 6'0 200 pound WR is not rare.  That's a very unexceptional height and weight for a WR.  You will probably be able to find a 6'0 200 pound WR  (or abouts) who runs better than 4.5 in every round of the draft.    Some will be better than others, but often, the first round ones are not the best ones. 

Also, if you split out a 6'6 239 pound TE/WR like Pitts,  I'm thinking that you're going to get much better run blocking out of him over a 6'0 200 pound guy.    Things like that matter when you have a running QB like Hurts.  If I'm Hurts,  if I'm building an offense around Hurts, in general, a run first offense with running QBs (Toney was a running QB in high school, and he's thrown passes at Florida and took snaps and ran the ball at Florida,  very much capable of the "running QB gets the ball, running right then runs or throws" play. 

 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

13 hours ago, macgregor said:

You can judge them from last season if you want. I refuse to do that. We had a QB mutinee, and a head coach that had no answer but to run a predictable offense that was destined to fail. That's how I see it. I see our entire receiver corps and tight ends as victims. I will withhold from judging them for last season.

Regardless of the QB situation, Goedert and Rodgers were both better than Ertz, even though Ertz was clear number one in targets and snaps. Rodgers beat Ertz in yardage and touchdowns in less than half his snaps.

You can maybe use the QB situation for Goedert and Rodgers but Ertz was not a good tight end last year.

[T-1000]

6 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Kyle Pitts IS a TE.

1st team All American Tight End.  PFF has an All American list,  he's first team AA there, too.

Someone could read 500 words from 10 different places,  but he's still a TE.    He could be the best TE of all time at defeating press man coverages split wide like a WR,  but he plays the Tight End position.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't be the pick.  It seems to me that Pitts will be catching passes in the NFL more than he's blocking inline.   And, like so many TEs these days, he can line up in a number of places.   If Pitts is really fast,  I think it would be quite good for a QB, espcially in the red zone, to have a very fast 6'6 target.

If you're going to compare pass catchers, I would think there would be more uncertainty about the 2 WRs than Pitts.   The argument about Pitts is that TEs just aren't worth as much as WRs.  

I would think that if the Eagles aren't trading down, best case scenario is that Pitts crushed it at pro day, great 40 time and all the rest, and the Eagles take Pitts.  Oh, he's a top 1% sparq beast who is really a 6'6 WR,  a bigger and more polished and more versatile and overall better version of Darren Waller (who was an X, Split End in college).  

The Eagles with Jalen Hurts at QB could look a lot like the Ravens with Lamar Jackson.  And in the playoffs, it was clear that the Ravens would've benefitted by having another big red zone threat.    Generally speaking you assume the running QB to be very good at running and maybe not as good at passing.  So,  when passing,  it might be better to have big targets who are easy to hit. 

If you have an experienced pocket QB who loves to throw passes before the WR makes his cut, you'd probably want the most polished route runner.  maybe that's Smith? 

Was watching Chase.    Has everyone forgotten that it was Joe Burrow throwing all those passes to Chase?   

I read somewhere in an analysis of Kyle Trask that, sure, he had 43 TDs,  but he was throwing to Pitts and Toney, so he really isn't that good.  But both Burrow and Chase are both super great?  Alabama will have had, after this draft,  2 QBs - Tua and Mac Jones,  and 4 WRs - Jeudy, Ruggs, Waddle and Smith -  all drafted in the first round in the last 2 years.  But they're all super great.   Hurts at least duplicated his high output with 2 different teams with great receivers,  Alabama, with those 4 mentioned, and Oklahoma with Lamb.

These top QBs in college are throwing to better receivers than the average NFL team has.  I wasn't that impressed by Chase.  Part of it is Burrow,  he being the clearly best QB last year as everyone said,  the other had to do with little things in the highlight reel  like Chase stepping out of bounds for no apparent reason.    It seems to me that Chase to the Bengals with the overall 5 pick is what really should happen.  Burrow to Chase was good in college.  Do that again.    Just watched highlights of Chase vs Toney.  LSU had Burrow, Justin Jefferson and Chase.   I'm really not all that impressed with Chase.  Toney - Florida Gators, Brian Johnson - really can do a lot of stuff that you don't see Chase or Smith do.  Toney is by far the more electric runner,  he's not only incredibly elusive, but he breaks tackles.   Completes a 50 yard pass which looked like it went 60 air yards.  Was a HS QB,  Toney - at Florida - made a lot of big runs from the QB spot,  also jet motion and other motions from the slot. 

Chase is good at getting behind the defense and catching long TD passes.  He had the 2nd most catches on the LSU team in his great year.  He's also quite good at contested catches, but,  if I'm going to be throwing the ball 40, 50 yards downfield, and there might be a contested catch,  do I really want to be throwing it to a 6'0 208 receiver?  Or would I rather throw it to a 6'6 239 pound type like Pitts,  if I'm throwing a long pass that might be a contested catch?  Or maybe a fast 6'4 guy?   Perhaps Chase is an amazing route runner which allows him to get wide open a lot?   Chase is said to be some sort of great open field runner.  I don't see it.  Toney comes across as 5 times better as runner.  And we're comparing a top 1st guy with a 2nd or 3rd guy.  We know that Toney isn't yet a polished route runner, but he did get 70 catches last year.  And there were 4 years of solid highlight plays from him,  often running or throwing.  Not just 1 great year and another year with 23 catches as with Chase.  Chase and Smith do look like professional receivers, but,  in each case there were 1st round QBs throwing to them, and other 1st round WRs on the field at the same time.  So, maybe that's a factor?

Pro day numbers should be important here.  How fast and the rest of the sparq numbers are Pitts, Toney, Chase and Smith?  If Smith or Chase are in the 4.2 or 4.3,  and Toney is 4.5 and Pitts is 4.6, then I might think differently.     Pitts is tall, that's something we already know, and we can see him producing well as a pass catcher in the end zone on short TD catches.  Running QBs like Hurts tend to have a fairly easy time moving the ball between the 20s because them running,  but sometimes it becomes a little more difficult in the red zone.  Having an extra big target, especially a fast one, seems like it could be quite useful to a running QB.    Lamar threw most passes to Mark Andrews and Hollywood Brown.  With Hurts, it could be Pitts and Toney.   

Not everything is black and white in life. There is a whole lot of nuance and grey involved in the vast majority of things. I'm aware that Kyle Pitts is listed as a TE and that is his primary position. However, calling him a TE is extremely misleading. Anyone who has watched him play knows this. I'm also not referring to the fact that he can line up in the slot sometimes. He can play in line, slot, out wide, etc and be effective in these roles in a way that very few TE's in league history have been able to do. Hence, saying things like ''The Eagles don't need a TE'' or ''Teams shouldn't draft a TE as early as 6'' doesn't apply to Pitts and makes people look uneducated.

[Random Reglar]

9 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Not everything is black and white in life. There is a whole lot of nuance and grey involved in the vast majority of things. I'm aware that Kyle Pitts is listed as a TE and that is his primary position. However, calling him a TE is extremely misleading. Anyone who has watched him play knows this. I'm also not referring to the fact that he can line up in the slot sometimes. He can play in line, slot, out wide, etc and be effective in these roles in a way that very few TE's in league history have been able to do. Hence, saying things like ''The Eagles don't need a TE'' or ''Teams shouldn't draft a TE as early as 6'' doesn't apply to Pitts and makes people look uneducated.

 

What has happened with the TE position over time is that teams take big wide receivers and call them TEs.   

They rarely stand inline and block and if they do they don't really do it well.  But they're called TEs.  Darren Waller was a Split End / X for Georgia Tech in the triple option offense ran by Justin Thomas,  and Brian Johnson was Dak Prescott's qb coach when Georgia Tech played Mississippi State in the Orange Bowl  a few years back.  I'm not exactly sure what Darren Waller is doing today differently than he was doing 5 or so years ago with Georgia Tech,  but he was called a WR then and a TE now.  But, really, he's an End.  He lines up on the End of the line of scrimmage.  If he's standing real close to the Tackle,   he's said to be a "Tight" End,   but if he's standing a couple yards or more from the Tackle,  he's said to be a Split End, or an X.
I would guess that Darren Waller is lined up as a split end a high percentage of the time and I would guess that Pitts is split at least a few yards wide pretty often.  

I believe pretty strongly in having a big extra blocker out there,  a real TE,  or a blocking TE, who could just be the biggest guy on the team, setting the edge on run plays,  that's not Pitts. 

All that said, they do call him a TE.  There was fight a few years back about what Jimmy Graham was.   For some reason,  perhaps the value of a franchise tag, they tried to determine whether Graham was a TE or a WR by looking at exactly where Graham was lining up.    You can probably find the NFL legal definition of TE or WR in the rule book somewhere and look at every one of Pitts snaps to determine whether he's actually a TE or is actually a WR.  I don't know.

I think that we're in general agreement here.

After spending a few hours looking at youtube,   Pitts looks better to me,  Chase looks worse,  and Smith maybe about the same.    It just seems to me that the smart way to go for all the teams concerned is to make the thing that they have work.

Tua was drafted with the #5 pick.  He went 6-3,  that's good for a rookie, that was better than Burrow,  better than Herbert.  But people are somehow saying that they should replace him.  Why?   It was noted that the Dolphins had a few injuries or covids involving the WRs and it was a group that was said to be weak and the Dolphins fans were saying that they need WRs.   They brought in Lynn Bowden and Malcolm Perry and both of those guys did ok,  not amazing,  but Bowden had some solid games there at the end,  with Tua as QB, and Perry had some good moments.  They're running QBs who I like, but Perry was a 7th rounder, and the Raiders traded Bowden because the QB/WR was not a polished pass protector after the Raiders switched him to RB.  Anyway,  either Bowden or Perry was the slot receiver in a lot of the games in the last half of the season.      So, you spend a top 10 pick on a QB who you liked based on his work as QB of Alabama.  And a big part of his good work was QB of Alabama was throwing to Smith.  2019,   206,9 passer rating.  A new record.  And  Tua had a lot of good wrs to throw to.   Jeudy, Riggs, Smith and Waddle.  Smith was a younger one.  When Tua had all of those options,  it looks like Smith was the favorite target, or best receiver.     Most Touchdowns,    Smith,  14.  2nd most Jeudy, 10.  Most Receiving Yards, Smith,  1256,   2nd, Jeudy, 1163.    Most catches, Jeudy, 77,  2nd, Smith, 68.  Highest yards per catch, Ruggs, 18.7, 2nd, Smith,  18.5.  To me that says Smith is the best.   So,  you have the opportunity to re-pair the top passer rating QB with the Heisman winner, and you're lacking WRs already?  You put those guys together again and you hope it works as well as it was proven to  work.    You don't go,  well you gotta keep the QB upright so, Sewell, and you definitely don't say Chase. 

Same thing with Burrow and Chase at 5.  Proven to work.  You hired Burrow because he was great one year.  And he had 2 great WRs that year and Chase was one of them. 

You spend huge resources on a QB and it doesn't occur to everybody, every single mock drafter,  all teams,  that you put the parts together that made it work so well.     You spent a 1/1 on Burrow,  you want to make that work, right?  It worked best with Chase,  not Smith.   And Tua worked best with Smith, not Chase.  And you want that to work.  Hurts worked well with both the great Alabama WRs and the great Oklahoma WRs,  indicating a lack of necessity to get a specific receiver.    However,  Hurts might benefit from Smith or Waddle,  

[Infam]

3 hours ago, T-1000 said:

Not everything is black and white in life. There is a whole lot of nuance and grey involved in the vast majority of things. I'm aware that Kyle Pitts is listed as a TE and that is his primary position. However, calling him a TE is extremely misleading. Anyone who has watched him play knows this. I'm also not referring to the fact that he can line up in the slot sometimes. He can play in line, slot, out wide, etc and be effective in these roles in a way that very few TE's in league history have been able to do. Hence, saying things like ''The Eagles don't need a TE'' or ''Teams shouldn't draft a TE as early as 6'' doesn't apply to Pitts and makes people look uneducated.

That's true. But do you really want a player that plays the TE position that is a weapon and not much else? Or do you prefer a TE that can block and catch, even though he maybe is less of a versatile weapon?

The answer can be different depending on the coach you ask I'd say.

[flyerdog]

14 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

There is no Combine this year. Only Pro days at their schools.

...did not know that....so that definitely complicates things even more....

[SPIDER-MAN]

On 2/23/2021 at 6:51 PM, CheesesteakNBeer said:

I might get alot of hate here on this but if for some how some way Howie can get into #1 without giving Jacksonville more than 2 1sts and draft Lawrence than I wouldn't be mad, very highly unlikely that would happen...anyone else i don't think would make us any better than Hurts.

The Redskins gave up 3 first rounders and a second to move from 1.6 to 1.2 to get RG3. Jacksonville will want four first round picks. Not worth it.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

3 hours ago, flyerdog said:

...did not know that....so that definitely complicates things even more....

Considering Howie's record with a combine, this could be a good thing. Maybe, he won't overthink it.

[eggs]

It’s a good draft for interior OLs and there are some #1 receivers in the first round and starting CBs. We need all of these more than a QB. 

[eggs]

On 2/24/2021 at 7:30 AM, nipples said:

I’m not sold that he will be the guy yet, but I’m not counting him out after four games as a rookie. I want to see him at least be given this season as the starter to get a better idea of what he can be. If it isn’t good enough, they’ll be picking high enough next year to get a QB then. They’ll likely even have an extra first next year if they need to trade up a few spots to get their guy. 

I agree - plus you have that conditional first for Wentz next year to give you firepower to move up. 

[EagleVA]

On 2/23/2021 at 7:46 PM, Random Reglar said:

The media is doing their thing,  pushing very hard, to get the Eagles to spend their #6 pick on a QB.

I see them pushing very hard for them to spend #6 on Chase which I don't like at all, if they make that move you'll continue to hear "the WRs can't get any separation".

[EagleVA]

9 minutes ago, eggs said:

I agree - plus you have that conditional first for Wentz next year to give you firepower to move up. 

You guys need to stop with giving up a 1st to move up, two firsts are better than one, I don't care who the player is.

[flyerdog]

1 hour ago, eggs said:

I agree - plus you have that conditional first for Wentz next year to give you firepower to move up. 

and I think this is exactly the plan...If Hurts lights it up..they are set (assuming he is not Bobby Hoying) and can concentrate on other positions....however if Hurts proves to be an a$$ goblin...then they draft a QB in 2022

[CheesesteakNBeer]

4 hours ago, SPIDER-MAN said:

The Redskins gave up 3 first rounders and a second to move from 1.6 to 1.2 to get RG3. Jacksonville will want four first round picks. Not worth it.

This years 1st, both of next years and Dillard..I can dream can't I? Lol.

[EagleVA]

14 minutes ago, CheesesteakNBeer said:

This years 1st, both of next years and Dillard..I can dream can't I? Lol.

You don't give up high draft choices for unknowns, I say unknown because you never know what you have in a player until he experiences NFL hits, especially at the QB position 

[Bwestbrook36]

3 hours ago, CheesesteakNBeer said:

This years 1st, both of next years and Dillard..I can dream can't I? Lol.

I am not looking at Lawrence's tranny looking face the next 5-10 yrs I don't care how good he is. 

[The Blackfish]

10 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I am not looking at Lawrence's tranny, bird looking face the next 5-10 yrs I don't care how good he is. 

FYP

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

I don't think the Eagles take a QB, BUT....the main reason to do so would be that it is believed that Hurts is unable to get the team beyond 8 or 9 wins and that W/L position dooms the Eagles to mid-round selections out of prime QB territory in the future.  Hurts is likely that guy.  He wins a little, looks exciting, but never gets the team over the top.

[Jeep_man]

A few reports surfacing Eagles looking at QB, I feel its all smoke screen, they want their WR.

[time2rock]

2 hours ago, Jeep_man said:

A few reports surfacing Eagles looking at QB, I feel its all smoke screen, they want their WR.

Hard to really have a feel for what they want considering #1 it is a whole new coaching staff (assuming they will have some input into draft plans ... hopefully that is the case at least), #2 they did spend 1st rd pick on a WR in last year's draft, and #3 well, it IS Howie (he may have a 3rd round rated DL in mind that he thinks he is the only one who sees as a cornerstone piece and takes him).  

[eglz1]

7 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't think the Eagles take a QB, BUT....the main reason to do so would be that it is believed that Hurts is unable to get the team beyond 8 or 9 wins and that W/L position dooms the Eagles to mid-round selections out of prime QB territory in the future.  Hurts is likely that guy.  He wins a little, looks exciting, but never gets the team over the top.

That's my concern but I imagine we'll get to find out. He might have 1000 yards rushing though, which would make him a pseudo MVP in some peoples' opinions.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, eglz1 said:

That's my concern but I imagine we'll get to find out. He might have 1000 yards rushing though, which would make him a pseudo MVP in some peoples' opinions.

Yes, around here, a few will be claiming that would be MVP worthy.  However, our QB running like that will result in a mid pack season and a mid pack pick next year.  That isn't long term winning football.  If we believe that is what is really coming, Howie should draft a QB with #6.  

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Yes, around here, a few will be claiming that would be MVP worthy.  However, our QB running like that will result in a mid pack season and a mid pack pick next year.  That isn't long term winning football.  If we believe that is what is really coming, Howie should draft a QB with #6.  

No faith in Jaylen Russell Hurts Wilson I see

[SBorBust]

If you think a franchise QB is available at #6, then you definitely draft him.