Anyone got a bad feeling the Eagles will draft a QB in the first round?

[The Norseman]

3 hours ago, flyerdog said:

more and more..it sounds like Pitts has the potential to be a nightmare for defenses...and we know that Sirianni likes to use TEs a lot...so If they took Pitts at 6 and maybe grab a WR in the second, CB in the 3rd (fairly deep draft at CB)...imo this would be a great start to this draft

And he's a Philly kid.  Sadly, we really don't need a Tight End. 

[Bwestbrook36]

17 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

And he's a Philly kid.  Sadly, we really don't need a Tight End. 

Don't worry if they get Pitts play him at tight end and still suck at WR everyone will piss and moan they should of taken a WR  and Tight end was a luxury pick. Just like they did with Goedert. 

[The Norseman]

8 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Don't worry if they get Pitts play him at tight end and still suck at WR everyone will piss and moan they should of taken a WR  and Tight end was a luxury pick. Just like they did with Goedert. 

if we continue to suck after drafting him and still don't use two tight end sets I will be one of them

[flyerdog]

57 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Don't worry if they get Pitts play him at tight end and still suck at WR everyone will piss and moan they should of taken a WR  and Tight end was a luxury pick. Just like they did with Goedert. 

everything is interconnected though...if Pitts is all that and starts to draw special attention from Defenses...then the WRs should benefit from less attention...but then you still need WRs that aren't plucked from the bargain bin...

[Bwestbrook36]

1 hour ago, flyerdog said:

everything is interconnected though...if Pitts is all that and starts to draw special attention from Defenses...then the WRs should benefit from less attention...but then you still need WRs that aren't plucked from the bargain bin...

Exactly

[philafan4o8]

I have more of a bad feeling the eagles will draft a TE at #6...

[ManchesterEagle]

On 3/5/2021 at 5:27 PM, The Norseman said:

And he's a Philly kid.  Sadly, we really don't need a Tight End. 

 

On 3/5/2021 at 6:46 PM, flyerdog said:

everything is interconnected though...if Pitts is all that and starts to draw special attention from Defenses...then the WRs should benefit from less attention...but then you still need WRs that aren't plucked from the bargain bin...

 

19 minutes ago, philafan4o8 said:

I have more of a bad feeling the eagles will draft a TE at #6...

Pitts is more a WR than a TE. Now they need to be willing to use both Goedert and Pitts most of the time, but I think he would be a good pick. He's a matchup nightmare.

[Bwestbrook36]

7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

Pitts is more a WR than a TE. Now they need to be willing to use both Goedert and Pitts most of the time, but I think he would be a good pick. He's a matchup nightmare.

Meh we will see. Most of these so called match up nightmares never play up to their full potential. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

10 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Pitts is more a WR than a TE. Now they need to be willing to use both Goedert and Pitts most of the time, but I think he would be a good pick. He's a matchup nightmare.

I agree with this after watching some of his videos.  Who does he compare to best?  He's very close in size to Plaxico Burress.

[Bwestbrook36]

46 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I agree with this after watching some of his videos.  Who does he compare to best?  He's very close in size to Plaxico Burress.

Mike evans. There is quite a few guys that were similar builds. 

[CheesesteakNBeer]

On 2/23/2021 at 6:01 PM, opa-opa said:

Doesn't matter who they draft, he will be sacked 50 times and have no weapons to throw to and people will be asking for Hurts to replace him by the 5th game and then we get rid of him and then draft another QB in 2022 etc etc etc

 

Sorry guys if I'm sounding cynical but I just have zero faith in this org right now.

 

Anyone got a bad feeling the Eagles will draft?

I fixed it for ya.

[Outlaw]

Anyone who thinks Kyle Pitts would be a bad choice...fight me. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Mike evans. There is quite a few guys that were similar builds. 

True.  He just looks alot more like a WR than TE.  

[Damanick10]

I could see Howie pulling some BS and drafting a project DE like Jaelan Phillips out of nowhere at 6.

[VeeMak]

16 hours ago, philafan4o8 said:

I have more of a bad feeling the eagles will draft a TE at #6...

Pitts doesn’t have the ceiling of a Kelce or Waller.  Don’t buy into the hype. 6 is a premium spot in the draft, probably too premium for a TE.  If we view him as a large possession WR, then wait until 2nd round to draft Terrace Marshall, Jr.  I think it’s Sewell or Chase at 6, or you have to trade down and pick up some draft picks.  This is a deep draft, just not overstocked with super stars.

[Random Reglar]

On 3/5/2021 at 12:48 PM, Bwestbrook36 said:

Don't worry if they get Pitts play him at tight end and still suck at WR everyone will piss and moan they should of taken a WR  and Tight end was a luxury pick. Just like they did with Goedert. 

Wouldn't  the Eagles typically put Pitts at Left End?   Put Goedert at Right End?  And Goedert would play inline a lot more often than Pitts does?

TEs these days are often basically WRs.  Teams take WRs and call them TEs, even though there is no way they can do the traditional blocking of a TE. 

It seems like Pitts would be a very good pass catching target for Hurts.   But Smith would also be a very good pass catching target for Hurts.

[Random Reglar]

6 hours ago, VeeMak said:

Pitts doesn’t have the ceiling of a Kelce or Waller.  Don’t buy into the hype. 6 is a premium spot in the draft, probably too premium for a TE.  If we view him as a large possession WR, then wait until 2nd round to draft Terrace Marshall, Jr.  I think it’s Sewell or Chase at 6, or you have to trade down and pick up some draft picks.  This is a deep draft, just not overstocked with super stars.

Pitts doesn't have the ceiling of WALLER?

Waller has been in the NFL since 2015, and his first great year was 2019.  He had 18 total catches in the NFL in his first 4 years.

He was on practice squads for a couple of years.  He was a WR in college.  He did have a great 40 time for his height and weight, generally a good overall sparq. 

But describing Pitts as a polished, pro ready version of Waller might turn out to be right.    Waller didn't catch too many passes in college,  he did a lot of blocking from the SE/X spot with Georgia Tech, which ran maybe 85% of the time. 

Waller is a good physical comparison to Pitts, and those who want to discourage the Eagles from taking Pitts would compare Pitts numbers to Wallers numbers.

Basically,   if Pitts ends up with numbers better than Waller,  he's got better pro day numbers and better production in college.    Pitts won't be getting picked at 6 if he doesn't have excellent pro day numbers.

If I wanted to talk against getting Pitts,  I'd argue that the Eagles have Tyree Jackson,  who is similar to Pitts and Waller.  Tall, fast and a bit on the light side for the height.

Darren Waller - 6061   238   4.46
Tyree Jackson - 6070  249  4.59

Kyle Pitts - we don't know yet, but the Eagles should be looking closely a those 2 sets of numbers as well as Kyle Pitts sets of numbers. 

[Saltpeter]

I've gone back and forth on it. My first instinct was they go QB because it's a great QB draft, they're picking 6th, and Howie is Howie. But I've moved off that sliiightly. Anointing another rookie QB seems so ill-advised right now that's it almost palpable.

[VeeMak]

8 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

Pitts doesn't have the ceiling of WALLER?

Waller has been in the NFL since 2015, and his first great year was 2019.  He had 18 total catches in the NFL in his first 4 years.

He was on practice squads for a couple of years.  He was a WR in college.  He did have a great 40 time for his height and weight, generally a good overall sparq. 

But describing Pitts as a polished, pro ready version of Waller might turn out to be right.    Waller didn't catch too many passes in college,  he did a lot of blocking from the SE/X spot with Georgia Tech, which ran maybe 85% of the time. 

Waller is a good physical comparison to Pitts, and those who want to discourage the Eagles from taking Pitts would compare Pitts numbers to Wallers numbers.

Basically,   if Pitts ends up with numbers better than Waller,  he's got better pro day numbers and better production in college.    Pitts won't be getting picked at 6 if he doesn't have excellent pro day numbers.

If I wanted to talk against getting Pitts,  I'd argue that the Eagles have Tyree Jackson,  who is similar to Pitts and Waller.  Tall, fast and a bit on the light side for the height.

Darren Waller - 6061   238   4.46
Tyree Jackson - 6070  249  4.59

Kyle Pitts - we don't know yet, but the Eagles should be looking closely a those 2 sets of numbers as well as Kyle Pitts sets of numbers. 

You do realize Waller was battling depression and drug addiction his first 3 seasons in the NFL.  Ended up suspended for a season.  Waller certainly had a different route to become an NFL TE, but I stand by my opinion as to which of the two has the higher ceiling. But I am a bit confused, are you hopeful we draft Pitts at 6 or are you convinced Jackson would be the better option since he is on the roster and has comparable height and speed?

[Random Reglar]

34 minutes ago, VeeMak said:

You do realize Waller was battling depression and drug addiction his first 3 seasons in the NFL.  Ended up suspended for a season.  Waller certainly had a different route to become an NFL TE, but I stand by my opinion as to which of the two has the higher ceiling. But I am a bit confused, are you hopeful we draft Pitts at 6 or are you convinced Jackson would be the better option since he is on the roster and has comparable height and speed?

Well,  we have 3 different players.  

Waller was a WR in college who did mostly blocking and then had 4 catches in 18 years.  You're right about the drugs, but he was still a raw project, more or less,  but one that I sized up as a player to get,  because height, weight, 40.  Despite 6'6 238 and 4.46,  he lasted to the 5th rounds.

Tyree Jackson has been a QB all along,  the Eagles recognize that he has the height, weight, 40 time and the rest of the numbers of a tall and thinish and fast TE, and it's not exactly clear what's going to happen with him this year.   Perhaps he has become a great TE in the last 2 months.  Perhaps he and Khalil Tate are working out together every day, throwing to each other, and now they're both great at QB and either WR or TE, and both great at running.  Perhaps not.  Terrelle Pryor became a WR for the first time in summer 2015, and he was playing in the NFL at WR later that year.   That's probably on the fast side for adding a new position.  Anyway,  about Tyree Jackson,  who knows,  he could be great at TE or not.   To me, "throw the ball at the big and fast guy" seems like the kind of thing you'd want to do in a game, especially if the QB is a running QB.  I'd want potent weapons out there,  and 6'7 249 4.59  TE/QB seems like potent weapon to me.

Kyle Pitts, coming out of college is a much more polished TE than either Waller or Tyree Jackson.  Neither one of Waller or Jackson was a great player on the field the year after they were drafted.  Neither was a TE in college.  It's almost certain that Pitts will do better in the NFL his first year after the draft.    He has a higher floor as a TE than Waller and Jackson had when they came out of college.   Pitts might have a higher ceiling than either Waller or Jackson.  That's where the pro day numbers get looked at and compared to Waller and Jackson. 

You asked a question about Pitts and Jackson specifically.   I wouldn't put it in those terms.  I'd want to see Tyree Jackson make the 53.  Kyle Pitts really should be a more polished TE in week 1.  I don't think it's either or. 

I was talking about arguments that people could make.  If someone wanted to argue against Pitts,  they could use the argument that Tyree Jackson is already on the roster, and he's taller, heavier (if he is) and only a little bit slower (if he is).  It's the "we already have that" argument.  I'm not making that argument. 

It seems to me that  Brian Johnson has a great deal of information about how good Kyle Pitts actually is.  And he's a coach for the Eagles.  If Brian Johnson thinks he's really really good and a good choice for the Eagles,  those are points in Pitts column.  I'd also say that Hurts has that information about Smith.   Same deal.   Burrow has that information about Chase.  Tua has that information about Smith. 

 

[Random Reglar]

Darren Waller

Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6061
Weight: 238

Zybek PD3X AKA "Official"
40 Yard Dash (ET): 4.46
40 Yard Dash (HH): 4.43
20 Yard (ET): 2.62
20 Yard (HH): 2.52
10 Yard (ET): 1.57
10 Yard (HH): 1.52     
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 12
Vertical Jump: 37
Broad Jump: 10'05"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.25
3-Cone Drill: 7.07

Tyree Jackson

Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6070
Weight: 249

Zybek PD3X AKA "Official"
40 Yard Dash (ET): 4.59
40 Yard Dash (HH): 4.56
20 Yard (ET): 2.67
20 Yard (HH): 2.57
10 Yard (ET): 1.59
10 Yard (HH): 1.56     
225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump: 34 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.28
3-Cone Drill: 7.09

Darren Waller and Tyree Jackson are extremely similar.   All the way up and down the line with these combine numbers,  Tyree Jackson has the numbers of the same guy who is 7/8th of an inch taller and 11 pounds heavier.  There is no variation.  His numbers are a little bit worse,  as you would expect an 11 pound heavier guy to be.  

That tells me that Tyree Jackson has a ceiling like Darren Waller and Tyree Jackson should be watching Raider games and copying Darren Waller.

This set of numbers,  with Waller and Jackson,  are an easy point of comparison to Kyle Pitts.

We can say,  based on Kyle Pitts numbers,  and how they look compared to Waller and Jackson,  where we think Pitts ceiling might be.  Pitts floor is high, being AA TE,  but I'd compare Pitts to the other 2, with the idea that if Pitts has better numbers than Waller/Jackson,  he's going to have a higher ceiling.  Either way,  if he's with the Eagles next year, his offensive coordinator from Florida is there with the Eagles,  so you would think that he would be used appropriately, and would hit the ground running.  And, really, for ceiling, you're looking at something pretty close to Darren Waller.  

I've been watching the Ravens pretty close since Lamar became the starter, and what the Eagles should do is something close to what the Ravens do with Lamar.  The Ravens use a 300 pound Fullback, Ricard, pretty often,  max of 68% of the snaps, and use a heavy blocking most TE, Nick Boyle, a lot, max of 78% of the snaps.   The Ravens are a run first team with a running QB,  the Eagles have a running QB,  they were 3rd in the NFL last year,  yards per carry.    But I don't see Pitts as that big blocker guy,  the way the Ravens have both Ricard and Boyle.   I don't think that Goedert really is that guy either.  He's "balanced".   I would think the Eagles should add or repurpose,  to have big blocker the way the Ravens have.  I like Mailata for that.  I would like to see everything he could do.   That rugby stuff could really be helpful,  running, catching.    Mailata could be something similar to former (and still) DT Patrick Ricard.     If Pitts is going to be good blocking, it would be as a Split End,  where I think he should be better than a 6'0 200 guy, but not as an inline TE in the run game.

I like to think things like "well Kwity Paye was a running back in high school,  so I'm going to assume he has the skills of a running back, and if he's 6026 272 and had a 4.59 40,  I would want him on the offense as a fullback.  Those numbers are running back numbers, but 40-50 pounds heavier."   And I like to think things like "Zaven Collins was the best player on defense, winning a bunch of awards.   He's 6032 260,   don't know about speed, but in high school he was a running QB who led his team to the state championship who almost never threw and ran a lot.  I'd want him on the offense as a fullback."    I do think that the Eagles should have players like that,  not necessarily top out at 250 on the size of the skill position players,  put some physically dominant bigger guys in there for the run game.

Within this context,  it appears that the Eagles do already have a lot of wide receivers.   The Ravens throw most of their passes to WR Hollywood Browns and TE Mark Andrews.  There are other WRs who don't get as many targets.  Some Ravens fans believed that those players (like Boykin) should be upgraded,  but the Ravens have gone 30-7 in the regular season with Lamar,  so it's hard to argue that.  They seem  to be lacking an additional  big red zone threat for when you want to throw a short TD pass in the playoffs and 3 are covering Mark Andrews.

 

[VeeMak]

@Random Reglar you’ve put a lot of thought into Pitts, but I have to say that I think 6 is too high to draft him.  Eagles aren’t sitting this high in the draft often (hopefully not again for a while) and this particular draft doesn’t have a bunch of generational types at the premium positions (LT, CB, DE, QB) so I just don’t see the value in Pitts at 6 when that pick may be worth a 2 (maybe a 3 on top) and a swap of 1’s to a team looking for one of the QB’s in this draft.  We have pressing need at WR, CB, S, and LB.  Not far behind is O line and TE.  And now we need a punter lol!

[Random Reglar]

21 minutes ago, VeeMak said:

@Random Reglar you’ve put a lot of thought into Pitts, but I have to say that I think 6 is too high to draft him.  Eagles aren’t sitting this high in the draft often (hopefully not again for a while) and this particular draft doesn’t have a bunch of generational types at the premium positions (LT, CB, DE, QB) so I just don’t see the value in Pitts at 6 when that pick may be worth a 2 (maybe a 3 on top) and a swap of 1’s to a team looking for one of the QB’s in this draft.  We have pressing need at WR, CB, S, and LB.  Not far behind is O line and TE.  And now we need a punter lol!

I haven't been following the Eagles for a long time, not with a lot of detail.

Just been looking at the salary cap to get an idea where the Eagles have been spending their money, with the thinking that if they're spending money there, that's a stronger position group.

What it seems like the Eagles have a lot of money spent on is the oline and dline.    I'd say they're pretty set there.

I don't think there is a pressing need at WR or at TE, really.   

Like I was saying, the Ravens, who the Eagles should be looking closely at, have their running QB throwing mostly to one WR and 1 TE.    The Eagles have 1 WR that should be considered good - Reagor.  He was a first round pick, so just call him good.  Hurts should be throwing a lot of passes to Reagor.   And the TE,  the Eagles version of Mark Andrews,  is Goedert.  The Eagles also have a bunch of other WRs.   Like the Ravens do.   Reagor = Hollywood Brown.  Goedert = Mark Andrews.  JJAW = Boykin.  Greg Ward = Willie Snead.  And the the Eagles have more WRs than that.  The Eagles might have an equivalent of Duvernay, of Proche.  It not all all clear that the Eagles need more WRs.  It definitely could be argued that it would be good to give Hurts Smith, a new favorite target who will lead the Eagles in catches.  But it could be argued that if Ertz leaves,  saving a lot of cap room, he would have to be replaced.    And one could argue that Tyree Jackson, similar physical type to Pitts, could replace him,  and counter argued that that isn't proven. 

I'm personally good with a lineup that contains Hurts,  Tyree Jackson,  Greg Ward Jr,  Khalil Tate,  and blockers like Mailata, and a big running back,  and the Eagles have so many other WRs and RBs already to fill in there.  My vision of things is that WR and TE are generally fine if these running QBs can suddenly become sufficient WRs or TEs.   Again, not proven.

What it really does look like though is that the back 7 is in need of some help.   The lines are good, the skill position players contain a few players who I think have high ceilings and positional versatility,  but the back 7 looks like it's pretty weak.    Maybe, at 6, there is the best defender in the back 7 who blows us all away with pro day numbers.   The Eagles could also trade down, and pick up more picks they could use on back 7.     Georgia CB Eric Stokes ran a electronic/laser timed 40 of 4.246.   That's close to the all time fastest 40, or something, it's really fast.    This Stokes guy was also a running back,  kick and punt returner in high school.   The Eagles could use his speed on offense.    Chazz Surratt, LB, North Carolina,  was the starting QB for North Carolina for a few games one year.  Positional versatility there. 

Perhaps it's better to give Hurts his favorite target, Smith, or a big and fast proven TE target in Pitts.     I think that the offense could use big back and blockers, more Ravens like, more than it could just use WR or TE (but Ertz would have to be replaced).   And it seems like back 7 defense should be the focus. 

I would not argue against trading down.  Not saying "don't trade down because Pitts"   I might have a different opinion if his pro day numbers are really awesome.  Not saying he should be the pick,  Smith is the other choice. of the WR/TE group.   Chase should go to the Bengals, I'd think. 

[Outlaw]

On 3/7/2021 at 11:37 AM, VeeMak said:

Pitts doesn’t have the ceiling of a Kelce or Waller.  Don’t buy into the hype. 6 is a premium spot in the draft, probably too premium for a TE.  If we view him as a large possession WR, then wait until 2nd round to draft Terrace Marshall, Jr.  I think it’s Sewell or Chase at 6, or you have to trade down and pick up some draft picks.  This is a deep draft, just not overstocked with super stars.

Pitts absolutely has that type of potential. Clearly you don’t watch a lot of Florida. 

[NOTW]

Well, not after Lurie (according to ESPN's Mort) instructed the team to make Hurts the starter and build around him, and not bring in any QB competition.