On 3/28/2021 at 8:42 PM, Traveler Vic said:

My Money is on the CB, DE, or OT before WR in the first. But Waddle is a special player who can stretch the defense. I would love to see him in the Eagles uniform. If he is there at 12...I would seriously consider selecting him...I would not move up to get him...because there will be some solid picks there at positions of need. 

Exactly my thinking.  WR is the #1 bust position in the 1st round.  You can get them thru the 4th round.  Kids that used to play RB all now want to play WR as RB doesn't get the big money in the NFL.  There will be many quality WRs in every draft going forward.  But...this Waddle may be worth it.  We'll see.  Route running/separation is the #1 trait needed to make it in the NFL.

12 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

We spent 3 draft picks on WR last year.  We need to develop the lines and secondary.  Both much more integral in building a long term winner than WR.  Elite WR don’t win Super Bowls.  Elite lines and Secondary do.  

Bingo

9 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I still don't see Lance going in the top 10. 

I hope he does just to avoid Howie being tempted to take him at 12.  

If he is still there maybe a team like NE will feel desperate enough to want to trade up offering us their 2022 2nd (since they don't have a 3rd this year).  I'd do that deal to move down 3 spots.  

1 hour ago, Thrive said:

 

I don’t see how 5 QBs don’t go in the top 10. 

6 of the top 10 teams don't even need QBs you can make a case for maybe 5 out if the 10. So that gives you the 5 QB needy teams but doesn't mean all 5 even like any of those QBs or the one they do like won't be there. 

12 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Eagles need to build the Lines and Secondary before throwing more assets at skill positions.  Phrase it anyway you want.  That’s how it’s done.  That and a good-great QB.  

that's the thing besides the redskins, no one values the lines more than the eagles, which is why alot of good players like this fall to us. it's not even about drafting perfect, it's about philosophy.

On 3/30/2021 at 3:53 AM, Outlaw said:

For the WRs I don’t see a need for two. I think the coaching scheme and QB in conjunction with Covid protocols potentially played a large part in our offense’s floundering last year. I agree we need 1 X WR, 1-2 starting outside CBs (I think we have the slot covered), an Edge rusher, 1-2 off ball LBers (I like Singleton), a really good S prospect and a developmental QB. I do not agree that we need backup OL everywhere. At T you have Mailata, Dillard, Lane and Driscoll. Herbig is a decent backup. I would like to see a Kelce replacement to groom. 

OL - we are in pretty good shape with starters and depth.

Tackles set as you say. IS, Kelce and Brooks at guard with Herbig as a strong backup. Draft somebody in the 3rd/4th as Kelce’s heir apparent and a late rounder or two to compete with Opeta and Juriga for the 10th spot and we are good.

3 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

OL - we are in pretty good shape with starters and depth.

Tackles set as you say. IS, Kelce and Brooks at guard with Herbig as a strong backup. Draft somebody in the 3rd/4th as Kelce’s heir apparent and a late rounder or two to compete with Opeta and Juriga for the 10th spot and we are good.

I agree.  Kraemer from Notre Dame is a good day 3 target at guard.  I'd like to see the 6th and 7th round on OL depth and flyers.  Here's my current mock I'm working off of:

 

R1P12- Jaycee Horn, CB South Carolina: Horn to me is an athletic freak with just enough swag at outside corner.  Will start in 2021 opposite Slay and become the CB1 after Slay moves on.

R2P37- Terrace Marshall, WR LSU: the "other guy" who became "the guy" for a shortened 2020 season, he has the prototypical build to be a featured X WR. Also very young at only 20yo.

R3P70- Joe Tryon, EDGE Washington: explosive athlete with great size. Can rush the passer and can also set the edge against the run. Can play hand in dirt or standing, great versatility.

R3P84- Ifeatu Melifonwu, CB Syracuse: amazing athleticism for his size at 6'3", 212. Can play zone or man-press and very disruptive at the catch point.

R4P123- Trey Sermon, RB OSU: a solid supplement to Miles Sanders. He is used to RBBC, and has a lot of tread on the tires due to it. Sanders/Sermon/Scott is a nice trio with varying skillsets.

R5P150- Tariq Thompson, S San Diego State: versatility to line up in the slot or at S. Nice box player or has deep skills to play center field. One of my favorite small school prospects.

R6P189- Tommy Kraemer, OG Notre Dame: depth Oline piece, will work well with an athletic C and solid RT. Good power at point of attack. 

R6P224- Michael Menet, C PSU: our eventual Kelce replacement, Menet will thrive in a zone-blocking scheme. Great pad level, hand punch and gets to the second level quickly.

R6P225- Tony Fields II, OLB WVU: great athlete and great instincts, projects well at the WILL. Little on the smaller side but makes up for it with athleticism, a very willing tackler and solid coverage. Will need to bulk up just a little.

R7P234- Quintin Morris, TE Bowling Green: Move TE prospect with athleticism. He will need to improve his blocking technique, and I think we have the coaches to do that.

R7P240- "Whop" Philyor, WR Indiana: Whop will be a slot guy at the pro level, but I think his true value comes as a returner prospect which the Birds desperately need.

Notable UDFA's: Feleipe Franks, QB Arkansas; Oscar Bradburn, P VA Tech; William Bradley-King, EDGE Baylor

1 hour ago, Outlaw said:

I agree.  Kraemer from Notre Dame is a good day 3 target at guard.  I'd like to see the 6th and 7th round on OL depth and flyers.  Here's my current mock I'm working off of:

 

R1P12- Jaycee Horn, CB South Carolina: Horn to me is an athletic freak with just enough swag at outside corner.  Will start in 2021 opposite Slay and become the CB1 after Slay moves on.

R2P37- Terrace Marshall, WR LSU: the "other guy" who became "the guy" for a shortened 2020 season, he has the prototypical build to be a featured X WR. Also very young at only 20yo.

R3P70- Joe Tryon, EDGE Washington: explosive athlete with great size. Can rush the passer and can also set the edge against the run. Can play hand in dirt or standing, great versatility.

R3P84- Ifeatu Melifonwu, CB Syracuse: amazing athleticism for his size at 6'3", 212. Can play zone or man-press and very disruptive at the catch point.

R4P123- Trey Sermon, RB OSU: a solid supplement to Miles Sanders. He is used to RBBC, and has a lot of tread on the tires due to it. Sanders/Sermon/Scott is a nice trio with varying skillsets.

R5P150- Tariq Thompson, S San Diego State: versatility to line up in the slot or at S. Nice box player or has deep skills to play center field. One of my favorite small school prospects.

R6P189- Tommy Kraemer, OG Notre Dame: depth Oline piece, will work well with an athletic C and solid RT. Good power at point of attack. 

R6P224- Michael Menet, C PSU: our eventual Kelce replacement, Menet will thrive in a zone-blocking scheme. Great pad level, hand punch and gets to the second level quickly.

R6P225- Tony Fields II, OLB WVU: great athlete and great instincts, projects well at the WILL. Little on the smaller side but makes up for it with athleticism, a very willing tackler and solid coverage. Will need to bulk up just a little.

R7P234- Quintin Morris, TE Bowling Green: Move TE prospect with athleticism. He will need to improve his blocking technique, and I think we have the coaches to do that.

R7P240- "Whop" Philyor, WR Indiana: Whop will be a slot guy at the pro level, but I think his true value comes as a returner prospect which the Birds desperately need.

Notable UDFA's: Feleipe Franks, QB Arkansas; Oscar Bradburn, P VA Tech; William Bradley-King, EDGE Baylor

That’s a pretty darn good mock.  One of the best I’ve seen so far.  

3 hours ago, time2rock said:

I hope he does just to avoid Howie being tempted to take him at 12.  

If he is still there maybe a team like NE will feel desperate enough to want to trade up offering us their 2022 2nd (since they don't have a 3rd this year).  I'd do that deal to move down 3 spots.  

I think the Pats might trade up with the Lions to get ahead of Denver and Carolina for a QB.

On 3/28/2021 at 5:09 PM, T-1000 said:

Have you read any reports, listened to any podcasts, etc etc. They were sure about him being a good cheap backup to Wentz and potentially being someone they could flip down the road if he played well in pre-season and with some starts here and there if and when Wentz got hurt. They NEVER drafted him in the 2nd round with the idea that he was a sure fire franchise QB. They also didn't bench of trade Wentz because of Hurts. They benched Wentz because they were desperate to try to make the playoffs and Wentz was the worst QB in the league at the time, and they traded him because he wanted out. NEXT......

You do not invest a 2nd round pick in a good cheap backup. Its moronic. 

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

That’s a pretty darn good mock.  One of the best I’ve seen so far.  

Thanks man, I worked hard on that one...must have revised it at least 10 times.

9 minutes ago, RICWOOFLAIR said:

You do not invest a 2nd round pick in a good cheap backup. Its moronic. 

Haaaaaave you met Howie?

But I agree with you.

Trade out of the 1st. Get another 1st and more next year. We will own the 1st round. If Howie, sorry, when Howie screws that up. Maybe Jeff will wake up.

3 hours ago, Outlaw said:

I agree.  Kraemer from Notre Dame is a good day 3 target at guard.  I'd like to see the 6th and 7th round on OL depth and flyers.  Here's my current mock I'm working off of:

 

R1P12- Jaycee Horn, CB South Carolina: Horn to me is an athletic freak with just enough swag at outside corner.  Will start in 2021 opposite Slay and become the CB1 after Slay moves on.

R2P37- Terrace Marshall, WR LSU: the "other guy" who became "the guy" for a shortened 2020 season, he has the prototypical build to be a featured X WR. Also very young at only 20yo.

R3P70- Joe Tryon, EDGE Washington: explosive athlete with great size. Can rush the passer and can also set the edge against the run. Can play hand in dirt or standing, great versatility.

R3P84- Ifeatu Melifonwu, CB Syracuse: amazing athleticism for his size at 6'3", 212. Can play zone or man-press and very disruptive at the catch point.

R4P123- Trey Sermon, RB OSU: a solid supplement to Miles Sanders. He is used to RBBC, and has a lot of tread on the tires due to it. Sanders/Sermon/Scott is a nice trio with varying skillsets.

R5P150- Tariq Thompson, S San Diego State: versatility to line up in the slot or at S. Nice box player or has deep skills to play center field. One of my favorite small school prospects.

R6P189- Tommy Kraemer, OG Notre Dame: depth Oline piece, will work well with an athletic C and solid RT. Good power at point of attack. 

R6P224- Michael Menet, C PSU: our eventual Kelce replacement, Menet will thrive in a zone-blocking scheme. Great pad level, hand punch and gets to the second level quickly.

R6P225- Tony Fields II, OLB WVU: great athlete and great instincts, projects well at the WILL. Little on the smaller side but makes up for it with athleticism, a very willing tackler and solid coverage. Will need to bulk up just a little.

R7P234- Quintin Morris, TE Bowling Green: Move TE prospect with athleticism. He will need to improve his blocking technique, and I think we have the coaches to do that.

R7P240- "Whop" Philyor, WR Indiana: Whop will be a slot guy at the pro level, but I think his true value comes as a returner prospect which the Birds desperately need.

Notable UDFA's: Feleipe Franks, QB Arkansas; Oscar Bradburn, P VA Tech; William Bradley-King, EDGE Baylor

 

I like the first couple picks, I think CB2 is for sure the pick at 12 unless something crazy happens like Chase or Pitts falling. But I would like to see another LB or two somewhere in rounds 2-4. Right now, I think they only have Edwards and Singleton. I haven't done the work you have so am not up to date on LB prospects, but that seems like a big area of need from a talent and depth standpoint. On the other hand, Howie is still there, so who knows.

17 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Eagles need to build the Lines and Secondary before throwing more assets at skill positions.  Phrase it anyway you want.  That’s how it’s done.  That and a good-great QB.  

No other information other than repeating a mantra. 🤷‍♂️

Gronk, T.Hill, T.Kelce, Edelman all just helped their teams win Superbowls. The Niners had a great defense and Oline yet lost their Superbowl without any playmakers.

One of the main reasons both QBs struggled last year was that WRs could not create separation and get open. WR also happens to be one of the thinnest units on the team in terms of talent and depth. The Eagles haven't had a WR with over 550 yards since 2018. So IF the Eagles had stayed at six it made the most sense to improve that position. Why have a good QB and OL if you're WRs can't get open?

Once again, I agree that good teams build the trenches, but the Eagles OL and DL are the most talented and deepest units on their team. Drafts also require you to look at the talent available as well as the team needs. Are you taking a backup OL/DL over a player who would be starting at WR1 or CB2? Which OL/DL prospects do you see as being good starting value at 12?

What’s not to like?   We gunna have the #1 AND #2 overall picks next year

wake me up a year from now

12 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

What’s not to like?   We gunna have the #1 AND #2 overall picks next year

wake me up a year from now

Not sure how we would get 1 and 2 ?? Please expand.

It was an idiot trade.  Said so immediately.  Could have had either Chase or Pitts and possibly their choice of either.  Miami's pick wll probably be around 20.  Not worth going from 6 to 12 with Pitts and or Chase on the board.  A resounding No on that trade.

30 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Gronk, T Hill, T Kelce and Edleman all just caught balls from either the best QB in the game now or the best QB of all time.   So those are hardly great examples. 

 

But let's use them, below is where they were drafted. 

Gronk- 2nd round #45

Edelmen- 7th round #232

Kelce- 3rd round #63

Hill- 5th round #165

Do you want me to go ahead and list all of the Tight Ends and WR drafted in the top 10 the last decade or so?  Because I will tell you, it's not pretty.  

 

Why have a good QB or OL with bad WR?    Who says we have a good QB and OL?  I am not sure on Hurts but I know what the O line is.  Not good and old or beat up.  

Why include where they were drafted? Your blanket statement was that WRs are not important in winning games. Facts prove otherwise regardless of draft position as all recent SB winners had high end receiving targets. Also, historically WRs drafted early have more success than later picks.

The team has no WRs that can separate and at the 12th pick the value will be for CB or WR. They're not taking QB so Hurts is not in play for this discussion. Again, the Oline is good when healthy, which is what it is expected to be, so at the 12th pick, which OL are you taking that is better than what they have AND is of more value than a WR or CB at that spot?

 

52 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Not sure how we would get 1 and 2 ?? Please expand.

I’m guessing he figures us and Miami will be the two worst teams next year. 

3 hours ago, Portyansky said:

Haaaaaave you met Howie?

But I agree with you.

Sadly I have. How Howie handles the 2nd round is some of the dumbest stuff you'll ever see from passing up Metcalf for JJ Artega Whiteside to drafting Jalen Hurts  to drafting Goedert when the Eagles had Ertz. 

So what are the odds of Kyle Pitts making it to #12? Smh....

25 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I’m guessing he figures us and Miami will be the two worst teams next year. 

And a fully healthy but struggling Wentz will lead Indy to the 3rd worst record. 

 

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I really like this line too.  "Also, historically WRs drafted early have more success than later picks".   Wait!!!!!  Are you serious?  Players drafted earlier are better than players drafted later???  WHAT????  Does Howie know this?

Pretty sure I read somewhere that isn't even true. 😁

8 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

LOL.  Quote me where I said that.  I said they are not as important to building a winner than OL, DL and Secondary.  You used examples of guys not drafted in the first round  as to why we need to draft a guy in the top 12.  Then asked me what it matters where they got drafted at?    Because those other guys won super bowls, with HOF quarterbacks.  The O line is good when healthy!  Sure.  We can agree on that.  Issue is that 3 of the starters on the O line are over 30 and/or oft injured.  You draft for 3 years from now....not now.  That is why this team sucks now.  Because Howie made ignorant picks like a WR in the 1st last year and didn't draft with a forward vision.  Yeah, we can all say Reagor was the wrong WR...which he was.  But do you seriously think Jefferson would have had the year he did in 2020 had he got drafted by the Eagles?  Of course not.  This team has so many holes that are more important that WR or a slash TE.  

 

I liked this line though.  "Facts prove otherwise .................." .    Who was the high end receiver in Philly?  Alshon?  How about New England?  Oh that's right....Julian Edelmen.....LOL.  I already addressed KC and their weapons.  You think AR would have drafted a TE or WR at #6 overall?  HELL NO!

 

 

I really like this line too.  "Also, historically WRs drafted early have more success than later picks".   Wait!!!!!  Are you serious?  Players drafted earlier are better than players drafted later???  WHAT????  Does Howie know this?  

 

So you do not think that having good WRs affect the quality of QB play? You continued to assert that elite WRs do not contribute to championships as the primary reason for not taking a WR in the first round. Yet, every year championship teams have high quality WRs (your crack on Edelman shows how little you know about WR efficiency). Would those teams be as successful with the Eagle's WRs from the past few years? The point was that you infer that having good WRs are not a significant factor in winning games. Even with a high end OL/DL and QB, there would still be no one to get open. Do you think Jefferson's skill would not have benefited Wentz/Hurts? Even with a beat up Oline, would the Eagle's QB success not have been higher with Jefferson/Metcalf? QBs do not play the game on their own and they need talented pass catchers and these are generally found in early rounds. 

Relating to AR, how many OL has he drafted at KC in the first two rounds?  Over the last five years, ZERO. He's taken RB, QB, CB, LB, DL, WR. So is he using early draft picks to develop his OL years from now? No.

This topic is to discuss the 12th pick in the draft and thus is the player values for OL/DL worth the pick? You keep spouting off about drafting OL, which they will for sure do, but will the value of the 12 pick be worth an OL player who is starting 2-3 years from now? That is why you take OL prospects with potential in the mid to late rounds to develop. If this year's OL was bereft of talent they would definitely be taking someone really early as they did with Lane, but money is short, there are huge needs at other positions (CB, LB, WR). Is a guard that would compete with Issac (who is already pretty good at his position) be of more value than a WR that could help Hurts or a CB2 to play opposite of Slay or to just be a competent starting LB?

It would make little sense for them to use that pick on OL.

13 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

6 of the top 10 teams don't even need QBs you can make a case for maybe 5 out if the 10. So that gives you the 5 QB needy teams but doesn't mean all 5 even like any of those QBs or the one they do like won't be there. 

5, possibly 6 teams in the top 10 need a QB considering Atlanta could possibly go in that direction. Either way are you new to the NFL draft or something. QB's always go higher than expected. Also, teams are allowed to trade up into the top 10 and take a QB. It's kind of cute how this is obviously your first NFL draft. Pay attention and maybe you'll learn something.