55 minutes ago, Infam said:

Again that lazy argument. Everyone here including you and me were all for it when Wentz got that new contract.

Was it a mistake? Sure! But nobody saw Wentz crashing down like that. If anything we can be happy we got rid of him for somewhat decent compensation after he played like a total bum. And if you think Hurts was the mistake that created this I couldn't disagree more. Glad we have Hurts, and if he exposed Wentz for what he was, fine! What a joke to think Wentz played like this because of a second round QB drafted... Glad he is gone.

It isn't a lazy argument. I'm not absolving Wentz of blame at all. He has to take a fair share of the blame for not having the mentality to stick it out. But let's not let Howie off the hook either. 

59 minutes ago, Infam said:

Again that lazy argument. Everyone here including you and me were all for it when Wentz got that new contract.

Was it a mistake? Sure! But nobody saw Wentz crashing down like that. If anything we can be happy we got rid of him for somewhat decent compensation after he played like a total bum. And if you think Hurts was the mistake that created this I couldn't disagree more. Glad we have Hurts, and if he exposed Wentz for what he was, fine! What a joke to think Wentz played like this because of a second round QB drafted... Glad he is gone.

I think anyone who isn’t a Wentz worshipper understands that Carson caused himself to get out of town, but the bottom line is Roseman operating like his starting quarterback isn’t going to be there so he needs to use a 2nd round pick on a just in case backup is not good. You either made a huge mistake on giving Wentz that security or you made a huge mistake using a 2nd on a backup. I could give him more credit (Howie) if I didn’t keep hearing all these rumors on how the Eagles are still involved with all these other quarterbacks. I mean if you believe in Hurts just play the kid. Back the kid and stop trying to find his replacement before the kid even gets his feet wet in the league. It’s just a ridiculous way to operate. They’re desperately quarterback chasing. 

8 hours ago, kentwo said:

I think you then risk the conundrum of deciding when you're good enough to contend and the price you're willing to pay to get the QB that can take you there. The window to win is pretty small. If you keep building the team, your record improves and you never really have a chance to get a highly drafted QB. You either have to sell the farm to trade for a guy or keep throwing darts on later round guys and hope you get ridiculously lucky in the draft. All before your contracts run out and you lose players. That's where teams like the Niners, Colts, Bears, Rams are right now. 

With the modern NFL there aren't too many examples of a team that won the SB without an elite QB. Baltimore was probably the last one and that was eight years ago (although Flacco was still a good QB). Other than them, the past QBs were people like Brady (several times), Mahomes, Wilson, Manning, or Rodgers. Even the Eagle's year required Wentz playing at an elite level for most of the year to put the team into position for Foles to carry them across the finish line. So having an elite guy appears to be essential to winning it all. 

If Hurts is average, it will be interesting to see where Howie balances that point team building vs. finding their next QB. AND of course the point is moot if Howie keeps drafting as poorly as he has been, because then there will never be enough talent to win regardless of QB> 

All those teams and like the Eagles as well are just quarterback chasing. Many of them spent high picks chasing a guy. Maybe the better move is to let a guy develop like the Bills did. Let’s see what Hurts can do rather than try and find his replacement before he shows he can’t do the job. It’s like the Chargers who had a SB quarterback in Brees, but were QB chasing and took a guy who never took them anywhere. Also I don’t agree that Carson needed to be elite to win that year. Don’t get me wrong he was outstanding in quite insane on 3rd down and in the redzone, but that team was teetering on disaster until they finally used their run game. They were a top five defense and a top five rush team. The KC game was a clear indication that team wasn’t going to win off Carson’s arm alone. They also were deep enough to overcome a lot injuries and that includes Carson and that was due to the fact they weren’t paying their quarterback too much money. I think they need talent more than they need to go quarterback chasing. Not to mention the last top five drafted quarterback to actually win a Super Bowl was a Manning. 

2 hours ago, Infam said:

Again that lazy argument. Everyone here including you and me were all for it when Wentz got that new contract.

 

Speak for yourself. I wanted them to wait at least a year. I didn’t like the timing of his contract at all, and others have spoken on it also, so claiming everyone was for it is flat out wrong. 

8 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Speak for yourself. I wanted them to wait at least a year. I didn’t like the timing of his contract at all, and others have spoken on it also, so claiming everyone was for it is flat out wrong. 

I was for the contract so ha!! It's back to everyone again! 

 

 

 

 

😜

18 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

All those teams and like the Eagles as well are just quarterback chasing. Many of them spent high picks chasing a guy. Maybe the better move is to let a guy develop like the Bills did. Let’s see what Hurts can do rather than try and find his replacement before he shows he can’t do the job. It’s like the Chargers who had a SB quarterback in Brees, but were QB chasing and took a guy who never took them anywhere. Also I don’t agree that Carson needed to be elite to win that year. Don’t get me wrong he was outstanding in quite insane on 3rd down and in the redzone, but that team was teetering on disaster until they finally used their run game. They were a top five defense and a top five rush team. The KC game was a clear indication that team wasn’t going to win off Carson’s arm alone. They also were deep enough to overcome a lot injuries and that includes Carson and that was due to the fact they weren’t paying their quarterback too much money. I think they need talent more than they need to go quarterback chasing. Not to mention the last top five drafted quarterback to actually win a Super Bowl was a Manning. 

You can downplay the value of Wentz's season, but the end result was he had an outstanding season and the team won the SB. I personally think they don't win it all without him playing well. 

The question is if Hurts isn't the guy that can take them there, when do they decide that they need to find someone? They can't keep finding talent and building the team forever. If he's just okay next year, do they pull the trigger and give 3-4 first round picks to get a guy? Do they wait another year and keep building, knowing that as they build their record improves and their draft picks get worse, contracts begin to expire, and the window to win gets smaller? After next year, it will be interesting to see what they do IF Hurts is not really good or bad. 

You mention the Bills, they had a good D and Oline, but got lucky in finding Allen with the 17th pick in the first round. When he was drafted they still had needs like RB/WR, CB, but because they were so lucky in finding that one right guy for them, they have been successful. Most teams don't have that kind of luck and it takes them several tries and a ton of draft picks to find that guy. 

Either way, the point is that at some point the team will have to find a QB (assuming Hurts is just average). This year, there will most likely be at least 4 QBs taken in the top 10 and possibly 5-6 in the first round. There is a good chance that this run on QBs will continue as players like Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Smith, Wilson, Tannehill all approach mid 30's and beyond in the next few years. So teams will be trying to find those replacements. Not to mention, not all young QBs will pan out (as seen by WFT, NYG, NYJ, etc...) so there will continue to be young teams trying to find their guy. Pretty much all of the QBs that played in recent SBs have been first round picks and with the aging generation starting to retire, you will see an even greater inflation on the position. 

 

On 4/11/2021 at 8:57 AM, EagleJoe8 said:

Speak for yourself. I wanted them to wait at least a year. I didn’t like the timing of his contract at all, and others have spoken on it also, so claiming everyone was for it is flat out wrong. 

 

Here, here! I as well stated repeatedly that, given his injury history and the fact that he generally just had not proven himself yet, that it was premature to give him that extension when they still had potentially another two full seasons to evaluate him. I always thought that extension was recklessly misguided, and I actually liked Wentz at the time. His performance up to that point just didn't justify such a deal; it was purely speculative. If they were going to extend him early, it should've been for a bargain, not breaking the bank.

1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Here, here! I as well stated repeatedly that, given his injury history and the fact that he generally just had not proven himself yet, that it was premature to give him that extension when they still had potentially another two full seasons to evaluate him. I always thought that extension was recklessly misguided, and I actually liked Wentz at the time. His performance up to that point just didn't justify such a deal; it was purely speculative. If they were going to extend him early, it should've been for a bargain, not breaking the bank.

I dont think it was recklessly misguided. I think that is was a calculated gamble. You could wait have waited 2 more years and if he played well and did not get injured, you would be paying probably $10-12 million more per year and possibly have gotten into a pissing match with him, which would have included franchise tagging him.

They lost this gamble because they did not expect Wentz production to have one of worst declines in NFL history. Does not mean that it was reckless nor should they not do it again if the opportunity presents itself. More times then not, the team will come out ahead when they do that.

6 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

I dont think it was recklessly misguided. I think that is was a calculated gamble. You could wait have waited 2 more years and if he played well and did not get injured, you would be paying probably $10-12 million more per year and possibly have gotten into a pissing match with him, which would have included franchise tagging him.

Wentz had been on a steady decline since 2017. It was not encouraging. There's always risk involved in a mega deal, but recent history made it pretty obvious that this was a very high-risk move. They totally threw caution to the win and let their emotional attachment to Wentz cloud their rational judgment.

1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Wentz had been on a steady decline since 2017. It was not encouraging. There's always risk involved in a mega deal, but recent history made it pretty obvious that this was a very high-risk move. They totally threw caution to the win and let their emotional attachment to Wentz cloud their rational judgment.

You could have attributed that decline to the injuries he sustained since 2017. While I agree that it was not encouraging, but the risk at the time was warranted IMHO. I do not fault them for signing him to a mega contract when they had the upper hand in the negotiations and doing it at the time that they did. From a business perspective it made sense.

They had two options - use what leverage they had and get him under a deal at a reasonable rate before players like Watson and Mahommes got their deals and hope that he continues to work and get better or wait 2 years possible pay him anywhere from $10-15 million more per year or cut him because he continued to get hurt and became a bad football player. The only thing that may have clouded heir judgement is that they put a substantial investment into getting Wentz and believing that he was going to be a longtime centerpiece for the Eagles. If you believe that to be true, then you throw caution to the wind and you invest heavily. It wasnt emotional, it was logical.

Again the cards did not fall their way. Sometimes that does happen and it just sucks for us fans.

6 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

You could have attributed that decline to the injuries he sustained since 2017. While I agree that it was not encouraging, but the risk at the time was warranted IMHO. I do not fault them for signing him to a mega contract when they had the upper hand in the negotiations and doing it at the time that they did. From a business perspective it made sense.

 

For having the upper hand, they sure got taken to the cleaners. I mean, they should have had the upper hand. They were in a position that should have given them leverage to work out a fair deal, but they ceded that leverage. They made it known well in advance that they were giving him that contract, come hell or high water. They telegraphed their plans and essentially promised that a deal was forthcoming. It was all just another aspect of the coddling and insulating Wentz from accountability. If they were in such a position of strength and actually had the knowledge and desire to use it, they wouldn't have offered a contract that set the market and committed so much guaranteed money to a player with legitimate durability concerns. The move was built on hope more than reason.

Like I said, I wanted them to wait a year. Wentz’s play in 2018 was too up and down IMO. He had some decent moments, but he was no where near his 2017 self. Plus, he lost more time due to injury. I get that waiting runs the risk of his contract getting even more inflated due to other QB contracts getting signed, but the way I see it, a QB’s 2nd contract is going to be expensive regardless. I would still rather have known what his 2019 season would have looked like before working out a new deal. 

On 4/11/2021 at 7:57 AM, EagleJoe8 said:

Speak for yourself. I wanted them to wait at least a year. I didn’t like the timing of his contract at all, and others have spoken on it also, so claiming everyone was for it is flat out wrong. 

I mean, the majority of fans cautioned against an extension until he proved himself. A minority of fans argued value. 

That guy is a front office apologist.

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I mean, the majority of fans cautioned against an extension until he proved himself. A minority of fans argued value. 

That guy is a front office apologist.

Oh I know. I wish I understood, but I don't think I ever will.

12 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Here, here! I as well stated repeatedly that, given his injury history and the fact that he generally just had not proven himself yet, that it was premature to give him that extension when they still had potentially another two full seasons to evaluate him. I always thought that extension was recklessly misguided, and I actually liked Wentz at the time. His performance up to that point just didn't justify such a deal; it was purely speculative. If they were going to extend him early, it should've been for a bargain, not breaking the bank.

I agree - mire bad judgement by Howie. 

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

I mean, the majority of fans cautioned against an extension until he proved himself. A minority of fans argued value. 

That guy is a front office apologist.

No I'm not!

9 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

No I'm not!

Not you fool.

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

Not you fool.

Lol I know

16 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Like I said, I wanted them to wait a year. Wentz’s play in 2018 was too up and down IMO. He had some decent moments, but he was no where near his 2017 self. Plus, he lost more time due to injury. I get that waiting runs the risk of his contract getting even more inflated due to other QB contracts getting signed, but the way I see it, a QB’s 2nd contract is going to be expensive regardless. I would still rather have known what his 2019 season would have looked like before working out a new deal. 

Which is fine. I am a person that believes that if you believe in something and want something there is no need to wait for it to get better. Pull the trigger and deal with the consensuses later - you are going to be right more times then not. This was the unfortunate case where they were wrong, but for reasons that most people did not see coming - a complete collapse of skill.

13 hours ago, NOTW said:

I mean, the majority of fans cautioned against an extension until he proved himself. A minority of fans argued value. 

That guy is a front office apologist.

If you are talking about me, that is fine. You can call me whatever you want as it doesn't matter to me.

I think there is a lot of disingenuous fans who are motivated only by their emotions and what talk radio tells them. The facts don't matter because it doesn't fit their agenda of hating Howie or Lurie or Wentz or whatever the current outrage of the day is.

51 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Which is fine. I am a person that believes that if you believe in something and want something there is no need to wait for it to get better. Pull the trigger and deal with the consensuses later - you are going to be right more times then not. This was the unfortunate case where they were wrong, but for reasons that most people did not see coming - a complete collapse of skill.

I think it would have been a bit more understandable if he were an impending FA, but I think another injury plus a drop in play at least should have given pause. It wasn’t like they had to do it at the time they did it. 

15 hours ago, NOTW said:

I mean, the majority of fans cautioned against an extension until he proved himself. A minority of fans argued value.

 

I disagree. Unless they were just the ones posting, it seemed like the vast majority of people on the board at least rationalized the signing if not supported it altogether.

30 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I disagree. Unless they were just the ones posting, it seemed like the vast majority of people on the board at least rationalized the signing if not supported it altogether.

Yes and I will gladly own up to being a part of that majority. It definitely required rationalization, but it felt like the best move to make at the time. It felt a little uncomfortable because of the injuries, the regression, etc, but he always showed enough promise to warrant committing long term. The numbers were only going to go up by waiting another year, and most of us had deluded ourselves into feeling that he could get back to (or close to) 2017 form. In many ways he completely embodied philadelphia sports, always giving us just enough hope to stay engaged before crushing our dreams in heart wrenching manner. In a do-over I would have preferred we wait a year before re-upping his contract, but alas, hindsight is 20/20.

14 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

Yes and I will gladly own up to being a part of that majority. It definitely required rationalization, but it felt like the best move to make at the time. It felt a little uncomfortable because of the injuries, the regression, etc, but he always showed enough promise to warrant committing long term. The numbers were only going to go up by waiting another year, and most of us had deluded ourselves into feeling that he could get back to (or close to) 2017 form. In many ways he completely embodied philadelphia sports, always giving us just enough hope to stay engaged before crushing our dreams in heart wrenching manner. In a do-over I would have preferred we wait a year before re-upping his contract, but alas, hindsight is 20/20.

I thought after he got his sheet together after the 2019 run that he was back and was going to absolutely dominate in 2020 I was estatic he was here long term. 

1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I disagree. Unless they were just the ones posting, it seemed like the vast majority of people on the board at least rationalized the signing if not supported it altogether.

I felt it was a good move. Remember, other QBs were signing big long term deals around that time and I understand the importance of finding the franchise QB. Performance decline couldn't be attributed to him alone, overall team health declined, especially on the Oline. Offensive talent declined. Defensive talent declined. Repeatedly poor drafts saw the team decline in talent and health in all areas.  Still he carried the team to the playoffs with a bunch of guys off the street playing WR. That was pretty impressive. Teams spend years and a ton of draft picks looking for that guy and if you have one you need to keep him. If Hurts isn't the next guy, the Eagles could spend the next few years trying to find their next QB. Just look at teams like WFT, NYJ, NYG, etc... They've been looking for almost a decade for their next starting QB.