55 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

That would take a professional cherry picking job to accomplish.  2021 has vaccines, 2020 had lockdowns.  But that's not the crux of it, the real issue always was and continues to be a POTUS who takes ever chance he gets to recommend vaccines, wearing masks and support local lockdowns, versus one who has been lukewarm to hostile against all of those and who continues to encourage his base into the very actions (or lack thereof) needed to tame this mess.

 

You know this damn well so shove your cherry picking contrarian crap up your arse mate.

Yet we are in almost exactly the same place we were at this point last year

 

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

Yet we are in almost exactly the same place we were at this point last year

 

Mostly thanks to unvaccinated Trumplicans. 

2 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Yet we are in almost exactly the same place we were at this point last year

 

You keep saying this but it's not true.

9 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I've always thought that is how this ends. The problem remains the large group that won't do this, leading to more variants and more hospitalizations. 

Employers need to start mandating for employees. Insurance companies have to stop paying for the unvaccinated or charge a massive premium. And the Federal Government needs to stop air travel for the unvaccinated. We've reached the limits of positive incentives and education -- we now need real negative consequenes.

Or maybe we just accept this as a new normal, like we do the flu.  

Those that are vaccinated should be free to live their lives as they did before the pandemic.  Those who haven't, now have to deal with the consequences.  This national nanny state will never work and the more the government tries to mandate, the more the populous will push back. 

3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

You keep saying this but it's not true.

Cases and death rates are increasing, hospitals are filling up, mask mandates are back and travel restrictions are back in effect.  I'm talking about the things people care about.  

4 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Or maybe we just accept this as a new normal, like we do the flu.  

Those that are vaccinated should be free to live their lives as they did before the pandemic.  Those who haven't, now have to deal with the consequences.  This national nanny state will never work and the more the government tries to mandate, the more the populous will push back. 

Like Vikas said, it isn't in the same place as the flu is.  Until it is, we need to have a much stronger response.  Dumba**es that won't get vaccinated need to get the boot from insurance and need to face the choice of keep their job vs stay unvaccinated.  If we take those steps (along with vaccinating kids), then hopefully the numbers drop far enough for it to be treated like the flu.

7 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said:

Mostly thanks to unvaccinated Trumplicans. 

I guess it's only "my body, my choice" when it comes to abortion...eh?  Also, where are all the whacko anti vax hippies that were so vocal about vaccinations before Coivd? 

Believe me, there are plenty of different groups out there who aren't getting vaccinated.  It's not just the red hat crowd. 

4 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Cases and death rates are increasing, hospitals are filling up, mask mandates are back and travel restrictions are back in effect.  I'm talking about the things people care about.  

People care about deaths more than anything.  And death rates aren't where they were, as I already showed a couple of pages ago.

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

I guess it's only "my body, my choice" when it comes to abortion...eh?  Also, where are all the whacko anti vax hippies that were so vocal about vaccinations before Coivd? 

Believe me, there are plenty of different groups out there who aren't getting vaccinated.  It's not just the red hat crowd. 

I said mostly the red hat crowd, not just them. The red hat crowd is in the majority of all the unvaccinated groups. 

5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Like Vikas said, it isn't in the same place as the flu is.  Until it is, we need to have a much stronger response.  Dumba**es that won't get vaccinated need to get the boot from insurance and need to face the choice of keep their job vs stay unvaccinated.  If we take those steps (along with vaccinating kids), then hopefully the numbers drop far enough for it to be treated like the flu.

So now you want to deny health insurance and fire everyone who doesn't want to get vaccinated?  Does that include all the black and brown people in the urban centers?  Or do they get a pass because they vote Democrat?

2 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I guess it's only "my body, my choice" when it comes to abortion...eh?  Also, where are all the whacko anti vax hippies that were so vocal about vaccinations before Coivd? 

Believe me, there are plenty of different groups out there who aren't getting vaccinated.  It's not just the red hat crowd. 

For like the 8 millionth time...yes, anyone is free to choose to remain unvaccinated. They have that right. 

They don't have a right to:

- remain employed

- fly on a plane

- receive health insurance

No one is putting anyone in jail for refusing to be vaccinated.

27 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I've always thought that is how this ends. The problem remains the large group that won't do this, leading to more variants and more hospitalizations. 

Employers need to start mandating for employees. Insurance companies have to stop paying for the unvaccinated or charge a massive premium. And the Federal Government needs to stop air travel for the unvaccinated. We've reached the limits of positive incentives and education -- we now need real negative consequenes.

Libertarians pushing for government encouraged forced vaccinations. Fascinating. 

Just now, The Norseman said:

So now you want to deny health insurance and fire everyone who doesn't want to get vaccinated?  Does that include all the black and brown people in the urban centers?  Or do they get a pass because they vote Democrat?

All of them, you nitwit. Anyone who is unvaccinated and doesn't have a medical reason should be denied coverage or have to pay a massive surcharge.

Just now, The Norseman said:

So now you want to deny health insurance and fire everyone who doesn't want to get vaccinated?  Does that include all the black and brown people in the urban centers?  Or do they get a pass because they vote Democrat?

Um....F yes, I want to include them.  Why the hell would I care what color their skin is or where they live?

Just now, Kz! said:

Libertarians pushing for government encouraged forced vaccinations. Fascinating. 

Screw off. I'm not playing your games and dealing with your trolling and lack of reading comprehension after the weekend I had. Go fish somewhere else.

Just now, vikas83 said:

For like the 8 millionth time...yes, anyone is free to choose to remain unvaccinated. They have that right. 

They don't have a right to:

- remain employed

- fly on a plane

- receive health insurance

No one is putting anyone in jail for refusing to be vaccinated.

So just so I'm clear, you are advocating that the federal government should recommend that people that don't get vaccinated should be terminated by their employer, not be allowed to travel and lost the or health insurance?

Aren't you supposed to be some sort of libertarian?

10 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Cases and death rates are increasing, hospitals are filling up, mask mandates are back and travel restrictions are back in effect.  I'm talking about the things people care about.  

It's a legit observation, but there is a timing issue.  Not enough time and study to get the EUA vaccines out before the virus mutated several times so that's the problem I'm seeing.  So, are we scrambling to study how well the vaccines are doing?  Compared to are they resistant to new strains? Compared to do we need more vaccines?

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Screw off. I'm not playing your games and dealing with your trolling and lack of reading comprehension after the weekend I had. Go fish somewhere else.

Limited government until there's a virus with a 99.98% survival rate, then it's "protect me daddy government!" 

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

Um....F yes, I want to include them.  Why the hell would I care what color their skin is or where they live?

Because that's all your party ever talks about and they make endless concessions for people based upon their race in order to ensure their vote, that's why. 

Just now, The Norseman said:

So just so I'm clear, you are advocating that the federal government should recommend that people that don't get vaccinated should be terminated by their employer, not be allowed to travel and lost the or health insurance?

Aren't you supposed to be some sort of libertarian?

LEARN. TO. READ.

I said employers should mandate the vaccine. Not the Federal Government. EMPLOYERS.

Insurance companies should charge the unvaccinated more. INSURANCE COMPANIES.

The Federal Government does control the FAA. That's their only role in this.

I can't with stupid people today. Nevermind. Carry on -- I'm done.

Just now, vikas83 said:

LEARN. TO. READ.

I said employers should mandate the vaccine. Not the Federal Government. EMPLOYERS.

Insurance companies should charge the unvaccinated more. INSURANCE COMPANIES.

The Federal Government does control the FAA. That's their only role in this.

I can't with stupid people today. Nevermind. Carry on -- I'm done.

Later bro, don't forget to sign up for your vaccine subscription service!

Never forget, Kz's the "libertarian" who said that the Republican Party needs to use the power of the government to punish their enemies.

3 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

So just so I'm clear, you are advocating that the federal government should recommend that people that don't get vaccinated should be terminated by their employer, not be allowed to travel and lost the or health insurance?

Aren't you supposed to be some sort of libertarian?

If you want to see where the board libertarians stand when push comes to shove, this thread has done an amazing job exposing them. There's not a government mandate that they didn't whole-heartedly support. Forcibly shut down businesses in the early stages? That's fine. Government enforced mask mandates? Great! Stimulus checks printed and shipped to everyone in the country? Sign them up. As long as the government makes them feel a little more protected. Unreal.

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

All of them, you nitwit. Anyone who is unvaccinated and doesn't have a medical reason should be denied coverage or have to pay a massive surcharge.

Nitwit?  😂 

You are suggesting that we relieve people of their health insurance, fire them and bar them from travelling if they choose not to be vaccinated for a virus that is of infinitesimal risk to a healthy person.  

Do you honestly think that would hold up in at US court?  Do you think any politician who mandated even one of these things would ever be reelected?