39 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I've always thought that is how this ends. The problem remains the large group that won't do this, leading to more variants and more hospitalizations. 

Employers need to start mandating for employees. Insurance companies have to stop paying for the unvaccinated or charge a massive premium. And the Federal Government needs to stop air travel for the unvaccinated. We've reached the limits of positive incentives and education -- we now need real negative consequenes.

 

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

Where did you say employers?  I don't see that any of your posts specify employer vs. government mandate.  In fact you referred to "rights" which means to me federal mandate.  

But you do what you always do.  Drop in and make an ill advised comment and they insult everyone who disagrees and dip out so you don't have to deal with the fallout.  

I put it in bold. Employers is only the 1st word of the sentence. Guess that's hard to miss when you're an illiterate clown. 

That enough dealing with the fallout, arsehat?

1 minute ago, Boogyman said:

I think a fairly large surcharge for unvaxxed people would be a better move. As for firing unvaxxed, that should be up to the employer but I wouldn't be against it.

Who pays the surcharge for those that are on government assistance?

5 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Do you honestly think that would hold up in at US court?

Yes, it would. Just like how employers having the right to refuse service to gays was held up by the Supreme Court. Employers have and will always have the right to make their own choices about how they operate their own businesses.

Just now, mayanh8 said:

Yes, it would. Just like how employers having the right to refuse service to gays was held up by the Supreme Court. Employers have and will always have the right to make their own choices about how they operate their own businesses.

We talked to our lawyers about it. The legal ground was iffy when it was under an EUA. But with Pfizer fully FDA approved now, the consensus is employer vaccination mandates would hold up to legal challenges.

46 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Let's see how the delta targeted booster fares before we start worrying too much about annual boosters and how prevalent the virus will be in 3 years. Even if we have to get a combo flu+covid shot every winter, I'm not gonna be too bothered if that's all it takes to keep me and my family safe.

Agree. When it feels like we are starting over in a lot of ways it's hard not to worry though.

2 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Who pays the surcharge for those that are on government assistance?

The surcharge for what? Are you talking about social programs in general? Or are you talking about unvaxxed people on Medicare/Medicaid?

Just now, The Norseman said:

Who pays the surcharge for those that are on government assistance?

I dunno. Someone else that works in the healthcare industry on the financial side of things  can work on that part. Just seems surcharges are the easiest way going forward as their is already precedent for then and you are still giving people the choice to get vaxxed and then the surcharge gets dropped or they can just get hammered with costs and continue to do as they please.

Just now, Diehardfan said:

Agree. When it feels like we are starting over in a lot of ways it's hard not to worry though.

We have to stop punishing the responsible to protect the irresponsible. Putting mask mandates and other restrictions back in place is senseless -- it removes one of the incentives to get vaccinated. Let employers start mandating. Let businesses start denying admittance/service to the unvaccinated.

Let the free market work.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

 

I put it in bold. Employers is only the 1st word of the sentence. Guess that's hard to miss when you're an illiterate clown. 

That enough dealing with the fallout, arsehat?

42 minutes ago you made that post that had nothing to do with my argument.  You didn't specify it in any of your replies to me what the hell you were talking about.  And the fact that you still support a federal mandate on private airlines negates your whole argument.  Your arguments are as unconstitutional as they are unrealistic.  

2 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

I dunno. Someone else that works in the healthcare industry on the financial side of things  can work on that part. Just seems surcharges are the easiest way going forward as their is already precedent for then and you are still giving people the choice to get vaxxed and then the surcharge gets dropped or they can just get hammered with costs and continue to do as they please.

The easiest solution is for Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare to either deny coverage or to charge a massive fee if you are unvaccinated and end up in the hospital.

And before an idiot starts in...you don't have a Constitutional right to Medicare or Medicaid. 

Just now, The Norseman said:

42 minutes ago you made that post that had nothing to do with my argument.  You didn't specify it in any of your replies to me what the hell you were talking about.  And the fact that you still support a federal mandate on private airlines negates your whole argument.  Your arguments are as unconstitutional as they are unrealistic.  

Nice try, moron. It's not my fault you can't follow a conversation on a message board. Oh, and TSA and the FAA control who can board planes, not private airlines. That's why American Airlines can't decide to let people fly with guns. 

Would you like to keep posting and confirming your ignorance? Or quit while you are behind? 

14 minutes ago, Kz! said:

If you want to see where the board libertarians stand when push comes to shove, this thread has done an amazing job exposing them. There's not a government mandate that they didn't whole-heartedly support. Forcibly shut down businesses in the early stages? That's fine. Government enforced mask mandates? Great! Stimulus checks printed and shipped to everyone in the country? Sign them up. As long as the government makes them feel a little more protected. Unreal.

Don't forget mandating a vaccine for every living human in the country!  I got the vaccine, but there is a zero point zero percent chance I put that in my kids unless this virus poses a serious risk to them.  Which it doesn't.

8 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

We talked to our lawyers about it. The legal ground was iffy when it was under an EUA. But with Pfizer fully FDA approved now, the consensus is employer vaccination mandates would hold up to legal challenges.

I don't understand how it's iffy ground even when it was EUA. Unvaccinated individuals aren't a protected class of citizen. Hell, you're legally allowed to discriminated against smokers in most states. And the justification for it is the same as discriminating against unvaccinated employees.

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

Don't forget mandating a vaccine for every living human in the country!  I got the vaccine, but there is a zero point zero percent chance I put that in my kids unless this virus poses a serious risk to them.  Which it doesn't.

I'll take something no one in this thread has supported for $500 Alex...

If only you could read, maybe you could follow along. Here's some free advice -- maybe STFU and let the competent adults talk.

1 minute ago, mayanh8 said:

I don't understand how it's iffy ground even when it was EUA. Unvaccinated individuals aren't a protected class of citizen. Hell, you're legally allowed to discriminated against smokers in most states. And the justification for it would be the same as discriminating against unvaccinated employees.

The feedback was basically that there was really no precedent on forcing people to receive an "unapproved" (at least fully) vaccination as a condition of employment. Wasn't a slam dunk you'd lose, but it wasn't a rock solid case to win.

OK, well, that took my mind off things for a bit. 

For those wondering why I am extra salty, see my new signature. 

20 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Ummm allowing businesses to fire people who don’t get vaccinated is limited government.   Seriously KZAnne how are you not understanding this?  It’s the people screaming, "I don’t want to get vaccinated.  Protect me daddy government from my company that wants to fire me.  Don’t let them do that!” that are calling for big government….

"Wahh, stop the unvaxxed from flying daddy government!"

How about people who actually believe their vaccines are awesome have a little effing faith in them? If you're vaxxed and you are planning on getting your twice yearly booster shots, stfu about the unvaxxed. Quit being giant ****, for once in your lives, and stop worrying about it. Or lose some effing weight and quit being high-risk.  

49 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Or maybe we just accept this as a new normal, like we do the flu.  

Those that are vaccinated should be free to live their lives as they did before the pandemic.  Those who haven't, now have to deal with the consequences.  This national nanny state will never work and the more the government tries to mandate, the more the populous will push back. 

I would be in total agreement, let the unvaccinated f'ing die already.  The only twist is that now kids who are not eligible to get vaxed are getting sick.

51 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Or maybe we just accept this as a new normal, like we do the flu.  

Those that are vaccinated should be free to live their lives as they did before the pandemic.  Those who haven't, now have to deal with the consequences.  This national nanny state will never work and the more the government tries to mandate, the more the populous will push back. 

You keep saying that and that's not what being talked about here.

6 minutes ago, Kz! said:

How about people who actually believe their vaccines are awesome have a little effing faith in them? If you're vaxxed and you are planning on getting your twice yearly booster shots, stfu about the unvaxxed. Quit being giant ****, for once in your lives, and stop worrying about it. Or lose some effing weight and quit being high-risk.  

Because it's not just about us, genius. It's about the eradication of the virus and protection of all of us. You can't protect the human population from a virus when you have 30% of the population providing an ecosystem for it to spread, grow, evolve, and eventually immunize itself against the vaccine.

9 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

We have to stop punishing the responsible to protect the irresponsible. Putting mask mandates and other restrictions back in place is senseless -- it removes one of the incentives to get vaccinated. Let employers start mandating. Let businesses start denying admittance/service to the unvaccinated.

Let the free market work.

Agree, but I'm not sure that will be enough because people are dug in and brainwashed on both extremes. I know someone who's vaccinated mother coded and still came out saying she was glad she didn't get one. It's insane. I also know people who want to go back to lock downs, which only punishes the responsible like you said. I'm a personal liberties guy so I've been on the let people choose side though this, but it's getting old fast. Let employers mandate and businesses start denying admittance/service. I'd like to go a step further and see mask mandates again until this calms down a bit. Freaking hospitals in Idaho just went crisis standards. This is not good.

22 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

We have to stop punishing the responsible to protect the irresponsible. Putting mask mandates and other restrictions back in place is senseless -- it removes one of the incentives to get vaccinated. Let employers start mandating. Let businesses start denying admittance/service to the unvaccinated.

Let the free market work.

100% agree.  My stance is unchanged. Promote those that are vaccinated.  Stop with the mask mandates which are counter productive overall even though they can help stop a spread locally (use those only in specific situations where things are out of hand).  Use a mix of incentives and disincentives to encourage people to get vaccinated and allow employers to make that happen.  Help those that are at risk thru special measures, e.g. provide tax incentives to businesses that have special times for "at risk only".  Move the full focus to one of vaccination with few exceptions at the local level.

Just now, mayanh8 said:

Because it's not just about us, genius. It's about the eradication of the virus and protection of all of us. You can't protect the human population from a virus when you have 30% of the population providing an ecosystem for it to spread, grow, evolve, and eventually immunize itself against a the vaccine.

Yeah, because there haven't been tens of thousands of "breakthrough" cases in the US and several of the most vaccinated countries in the world definitely aren't experiencing their highest caseloads to date. The virus is here, and it's here to stay. Time to man up and deal with it. Get double, triple, quadruple vaxxed as you see fit. Leave everyone who doesn't want it the eff alone. Effing fatarses.  

2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Agree, but I'm not sure that will be enough because people are dug in and brainwashed on both extremes. I know someone who's vaccinated mother coded and still came out saying she was glad she didn't get one. It's insane. I also know people who want to go back to lock downs, which only punishes the responsible like you said. I'm a personal liberties guy so I've been on the let people choose side though this, but it's getting old fast. Let employers mandate and businesses start denying admittance/service. I'd like to go a step further and see mask mandates again until this calms down a bit. Freaking hospitals in Idaho just went crisis standards. This is not good.

What would really help is if moron MAGA governors, like the genius in Florida, would stop trying to pass laws to stop businesses from mandating vaccinations. Somehow the imbeciles will rant that letting private companies mandate something is government tyranny, but then support actual government tyranny telling private businesses how to operate. 

5 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Yeah, because there haven't been tens of thousands of "breakthrough" cases in the US and several of the most vaccinated countries in the world definitely aren't experiencing their highest caseloads to date. The virus is here, and it's here to stay. Time to man up and deal with it. Get double, triple, quadruple vaxxed as you see fit. Leave everyone who doesn't want it the eff alone. Effing fatarses.  

Breakthrough cases are much less common and the lifecycle of the virus during a breakthrough case is proven to be much shorter. If you actually do the elementary math you'd realize how getting everyone vaccinated would forcibly subject the virus to an exponential decline in its ability to reproduce and find new hosts... which ultimately leads to its eradication.