July 13, 20223 yr 6 hours ago, Bill said: So after the HIMARS strikes on Russian logistics, since July 8 the amount of Russian bombardment has decreased ten fold. Combine that with the added anti-air capabilities that have been given to Ukraine, I doubt Russia will be able to get any more of a foothold. They should have had this stuff months ago. People need to stop worrying about escalation from Western weapons. Russia won't escalate to the west because they can't afford to. Russia will lose this conflict. It is imperative that that lose decisively, so that they do not have the force projection available to do this again to Ukraine or any other nation. Russia will likely hold Donbas and the Crimea after, which could very well have been the only goal.
July 13, 20223 yr On 7/6/2022 at 7:24 PM, Toastrel said: When one country attacks another, say like when Egypt attacked Israel, do you need to check the media? Really? Well, formally, we attacked all our neighbors in a Six Day War, does it make us a bad guys? (Sure there're some people here that will tell "Yes", but whatever)... Nobody sane should tell that Russian invasion was justified. The real question is how it could be prevented? Was NATO policy since the end of the cold war the right thing to do? Was it the best way to assure the world peace and keep "the mad dog" quite?
July 13, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, ilross2003 said: Well, formally, we attacked all our neighbors in a Six Day War, does it make us a bad guys? (Sure there're some people here that will tell "Yes", but whatever)... Nobody sane should tell that Russian invasion was justified. The real question is how it could be prevented? Was NATO policy since the end of the cold war the right thing to do? Was it the best way to assure the world peace and keep "the mad dog" quite? Yes, it was. After Poland went NATO a lot of people in Russia were happy because then they thought that Poland would stop worrying about Russia as an aggressor and it would help normalize relations. NATO didn't expand for the hell of it.
July 13, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, Toastrel said: Russia will likely hold Donbas and the Crimea after, which could very well have been the only goal. A month ago, when I first got here, I would have agreed with you. Now? I think you're about to be surprised.
July 14, 20223 yr 13 hours ago, Bill said: A month ago, when I first got here, I would have agreed with you. Now? I think you're about to be surprised. A pleasant surprise in all this would be nice.
July 15, 20223 yr Russian Propagandist: Russian entitlement attitudes towards satellite nations on full display. This was never about "not-zees", it was about how Russia views all these former Soviet states as Russian states temporarily separated from the motherland. They believe Ukrainians should simply surrender. Russia is a terrorist state.
July 15, 20223 yr On 7/13/2022 at 11:31 PM, Bill said: Yes, it was. After Poland went NATO a lot of people in Russia were happy because then they thought that Poland would stop worrying about Russia as an aggressor and it would help normalize relations. NATO didn't expand for the hell of it. Just curious, where exactly the information about "the happiness of the people in Russia" comes from?
July 15, 20223 yr On 7/6/2022 at 7:54 PM, DrPhilly said: That’s fine. I suppose by now you understand Abra is most definitely not your guy. Just read the last few pages if you are still unsure. That's right. Still, even a broken watch does shows the right time twice a day. He has some valid points at times... My impression from this thread is, that 95% here have already come to a certain conclusions about this war. It looks to me, that those conclusions are based on previous beliefs and the totally one sided information sources. Moreover, most of you are actively dismissing all the opposite claims, while making yourself believe in the most convenient outcomes possible. I understand that, because otherwise it's scary. The problem is, that when I try, actually, to put everything in the perspective - the reality is much much different... I wish you were right about the Ukraine winning. My dream is that Russia loses, and Putin regime is replaced by some kind of Western democracy. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Right now, Russia is winning, clearly. No HIMARS, no tanks, no plains will help Ukraine. It may just extend the war a little longer. The first problem is that the Western World does not try to understand the Russian way of thinking, their "worldview" so to speak. The second problem is, that the Western World is assuming, that doing the right thing is the best way go. No, doing the right thing and doing the smart thing are not the same. It doesn't help you if are crossing the street on a green without looking around, when some drunk driver hits you. Because it is exactly what the West does for like 30 years... I could, maybe, elaborate my points of view when I have more time, but I don't think that most of you are interested, because of the reasons I've listed above.
July 15, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, ilross2003 said: That's right. Still, even a broken watch does shows the right time twice a day. He has some valid points at times... My impression from this thread is, that 95% here have already come to a certain conclusions about this war. It looks to me, that those conclusions are based on previous beliefs and the totally one sided information sources. Moreover, most of you are actively dismissing all the opposite claims, while making yourself believe in the most convenient outcomes possible. I understand that, because otherwise it's scary. The problem is, that when I try, actually, to put everything in the perspective - the reality is much much different... I wish you were right about the Ukraine winning. My dream is that Russia loses, and Putin regime is replaced by some kind of Western democracy. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Right now, Russia is winning, clearly. No HIMARS, no tanks, no plains will help Ukraine. It may just extend the war a little longer. The first problem is that the Western World does not try to understand the Russian way of thinking, their "worldview" so to speak. The second problem is, that the Western World is assuming, that doing the right thing is the best way go. No, doing the right thing and doing the smart thing are not the same. It doesn't help you if are crossing the street on a green without looking around, when some drunk driver hits you. Because it is exactly what the West does for like 30 years... I could, maybe, elaborate my points of view when I have more time, but I don't think that most of you are interested, because of the reasons I've listed above. If you go further back in this thread we've had some discussion on the Russian world view. Lots of it to be honest. It is clear Putin has had a strategy all the time and it is a broad strategy to put Russia/Eurasia into a leading role in the world's affairs again and to make Russia the leading player in Europe. Ukraine is just where he made his first real big bold move and the timing wasn't just a coincidence. I'm not thinking the Ukraine "wins" in terms of defeating Russia. At the same time, I wouldn't say "Russia is winning" either. Yes, Russia has slowly gained ground in the east and has done so by the scorched earth method but at tremendous loss. I'm not so sure I'd call that "winning" and I don't see it furthering their grand plan one iota. I see this more as a lose-lose situation that will turn into a long and nasty quagmire. Russia won't be able to sustain any momentum and the Ukrainians won't be able to push them back to Russia either. Europe will be thrown into recession and possibly stagflation. It is going to get ugly. The US has its own domestic problems and will also be affected severely in terms of the economy. I think we are in for a few very rough years before this thing settles. Note: Bill sees his own views on the ground and hopefully he sees both the trees and the forest and is right that Ukraine will defeat Russia.
July 15, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, ilross2003 said: Just curious, where exactly the information about "the happiness of the people in Russia" comes from? Battlegrounds podcast (HR McMaster's podcast), Vladimir Milov interview, came out some time in March. Also, yes I can see the forest for the trees. I don't write checks I can't cash. If this was unwinnable I wouldn't be here. Is Russia "winning" when looking at the war? Yeah. They've taken large chunks of territory. Are they "winning" in the sense of meeting their operational goals? No. They wanted to take the country in a week. It's now six months in. They couldn't encircle the bulk of the Ukrainian army, and they don't have the ability to sustain their operations another six months. Two months ago I was sure that Ukraine would leave the war with some part of it intact, and figured that Donetsk and Luhansk were gone. The more time that goes on, the more I realize that Russia is losing the capacity to hold those territories. The only question i have is regarding Crimea. At this point I think it is likely that Russia will keep it, but it is not a certainty.
July 15, 20223 yr 4 hours ago, ilross2003 said: That's right. Still, even a broken watch does shows the right time twice a day. He has some valid points at times... My impression from this thread is, that 95% here have already come to a certain conclusions about this war. It looks to me, that those conclusions are based on previous beliefs and the totally one sided information sources. Moreover, most of you are actively dismissing all the opposite claims, while making yourself believe in the most convenient outcomes possible. I understand that, because otherwise it's scary. The problem is, that when I try, actually, to put everything in the perspective - the reality is much much different... I wish you were right about the Ukraine winning. My dream is that Russia loses, and Putin regime is replaced by some kind of Western democracy. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Right now, Russia is winning, clearly. No HIMARS, no tanks, no plains will help Ukraine. It may just extend the war a little longer. The first problem is that the Western World does not try to understand the Russian way of thinking, their "worldview" so to speak. The second problem is, that the Western World is assuming, that doing the right thing is the best way go. No, doing the right thing and doing the smart thing are not the same. It doesn't help you if are crossing the street on a green without looking around, when some drunk driver hits you. Because it is exactly what the West does for like 30 years... I could, maybe, elaborate my points of view when I have more time, but I don't think that most of you are interested, because of the reasons I've listed above. It's the Israeli version of TEW. I wonder if this model comes with the misogyny and racism too, or if it's just the room temp IQ that's the same.
July 15, 20223 yr https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3095350/senior-military-official-holds-a-background-briefing/ US delivering four more HIMARS systems, bringing Ukraine to 12 total.
July 15, 20223 yr The idea that Russia expected to take 404 in a week is more Western fantasy. Not once did a single Russian official express an expectation to take the second largest country in Europe within a week. The Russians knew 404 had eight years to arm, train and build extensive fortifications in populated areas. The sore losers repeat this canard so that they can say Russia failed. The truth is that this SMO was largely decided after the first week. This has been a clean-up operation of a cut off and demoralized force which receives stand and fight orders despite horrific loses in every battle. Russia will accomplish every single goal they set out for themselves. A 650,000 man proxy NATO army was annihilated essentially by the Donbas militias with Russian back-up in about five months.
July 15, 20223 yr 6 minutes ago, Abracadabra said: The idea that Russia expected to take 404 in a week is more Western fantasy. Not once did a single Russian official express an expectation to take the second largest country in Europe within a week. The Russians knew 404 had eight years to arm, train and build extensive fortifications in populated areas. So they SLOWLY drove the massive column of armored vehicles towards Kyiv and turned around, losing many along the way, as simply a joy ride with ZERO intention of occupying the capitol?
July 16, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, Abracadabra said: The idea that Russia expected to take 404 in a week is more Western fantasy. Not once did a single Russian official express an expectation to take the second largest country in Europe within a week. The Russians knew 404 had eight years to arm, train and build extensive fortifications in populated areas. The sore losers repeat this canard so that they can say Russia failed. The truth is that this SMO was largely decided after the first week. This has been a clean-up operation of a cut off and demoralized force which receives stand and fight orders despite horrific loses in every battle. Russia will accomplish every single goal they set out for themselves. A 650,000 man proxy NATO army was annihilated essentially by the Donbas militias with Russian back-up in about five months. What's with guys like you and TEW acting like nobody remembers how hard you both have face planted in this thread time and time again? First you said there would be no invasion, which was spectacularly wrong. Then you tried to act like it was all over for Ukraine for weeks. Admittedly, I didn't think Ukraine would be able to hold onto to Kiev initially either, but once it was obvious they weren't gonna roll over, I didn't dig my heels in and act like Putin was some mastermind that was gonna make quick work of them like you idiots did. On 2/9/2022 at 5:08 PM, Abracadabra said: Russia is demanding security guarantees from Europe, not Ukraine. Ukraine is not going to enter NATO so Russia has no reason, nor intention, to invade. The hysterical cries of imminent war is a British and U.S. fiction. On 2/24/2022 at 8:51 PM, Abracadabra said: Don't you all rush over to Facebook at once. Say goodbye to your brothers before the liberation of Ukraine is complete. Your fellow Not-zzz are taking a beating right now, @JohnSnowsHair @Boogyman @Bill @VanHammersly @Toastrel @we_gotta_believe @Gannan @DaEagles4Life @DEagle7 @DrPhilly @jsdarkstar On 2/27/2022 at 6:03 PM, Abracadabra said: BS! Like the only internet access is through star link. The idea that Ukraine is winning is an internet illusion. Four days in and Kyiv is nearly surrounded. On 3/8/2022 at 4:25 PM, Abracadabra said: The cauldron in the east has closed. 170,000 civilians evacuated. The western backed Not-z army is about to be destroyed. Once the Russian forces link up in central Ukraine, it's basically over. The U.S. avatar called Zelensky will have to decide whether Ukraine will remain a state or be replaced.
July 16, 20223 yr 43 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Aw hey, I made the list! The thing is, I rushed over to Facebook and said my good-byes and now I look like an a**hole. Thanks a lot, Abra.
July 16, 20223 yr 16 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: What's with guys like you and TEW acting like nobody remembers how hard you both have face planted in this thread time and time again? First you said there would be no invasion, which was spectacularly wrong. Then you tried to act like it was all over for Ukraine for weeks. Admittedly, I didn't think Ukraine would be able to hold onto to Kiev initially either, but once it was obvious they weren't gonna roll over, I didn't dig my heels in and act like Putin was some mastermind that was gonna make quick work of them like you idiots did. I made it clear that Russia would act if 404 threatened to attack Donbas. As I said, this conflict has been over for months. This is a mop-up operation which is being prolonged by Zelensky feeding tens of thousands of men into Russia's war machine. Name one strategic victory for 404 on the battlefield since the so-called Kyiv counter-offensive. There is none. NOT ONE! Kyiv stands because the Russians have not committed to taking it. 404's ability to fight as a combined force was severed months ago. Let's assume you're right. I got it completely wrong. What does that have to do with the official statements of Russia with respect to their intentions and a timeframe to complete their objectives? There was no claim by the Russians to overthrow Kyiv in a week. The Russians never gave a timetable at all- not even for their stated objectives. Claiming victory over a bogus timeframe is sour grapes after a humiliating defeat.
July 16, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, Abracadabra said: I made it clear that Russia would act if 404 threatened to attack Donbas. As I said, this conflict has been over for months. This is a mop-up operation which is being prolonged by Zelensky feeding tens of thousands of men into Russia's war machine. Name one strategic victory for 404 on the battlefield since the so-called Kyiv counter-offensive. There is none. NOT ONE! Kyiv stands because the Russians have not committed to taking it. 404's ability to fight as a combined force was severed months ago. Let's assume you're right. I got it completely wrong. What does that have to do with the official statements of Russia with respect to their intentions and a timeframe to complete their objectives? There was no claim by the Russians to overthrow Kyiv in a week. The Russians never gave a timetable at all- not even for their stated objectives. Claiming victory over a bogus timeframe is sour grapes after a humiliating defeat.
July 16, 20223 yr 19 hours ago, DEagle7 said: Aw hey, I made the list! I didn’t. I also stopped reading in here because I can’t stand the fing taters that post here.
July 17, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, 20dawk4life said: I didn’t. I also stopped reading in here because I can’t stand the fing taters that post here.
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