How do you feel about Hurts as the QB next year

[eglz1]

7 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Brady has made so much career wise and earns so much in endorsements, he can take a salary hit to pick his favourite roster, that WR corps he has at Tampa is probably the best in the league (Dallas and Cincy are right there too), their WR4 is better than our WR2, hell their Running back is a better receiver than our WR2 Fournette has 454 yards and 2 TD's to Reagor's 299.

I've read that Bradys spouse's earnings dwarf his. I don't know how true that is.

[LacesOut]

Bring him back, one more season. If he fails to improve, there is a decent #2 QB on the roster who is ready to step in and play.

This team is a few more years/draft classes away from being SB contenders, so fill the holes of the other positions first, IMO. Which there are many. Ugh.

[Hawkeye]

10 minutes ago, downundermike said:

No it is not.  Jeffrey Lurie's statements about having a franchise QB, the multiple moves they have made in the last 10 years to try and get one and having three 1st round picks all disagree with this statement.

I’m not making the case for Hurts. I’m saying that when you look realistically at the options his return makes the most sense.  They have many needs.  Why waste that draft capital by reaching for a trade?  They’re not going to do that.  

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

I’m not making the case for Hurts. I’m saying that when you look realistically at the options his return makes the most sense.  They have many needs.  Why waste that draft capital by reaching for a trade?  They’re not going to do that.  

Jeff Lurie disagrees

The only model to me that correlates with big success in the NFL is having a Hall of Fame franchise quarterback.

"Because in the NFL, it’s the one position you can’t just go get. And so when you have an opportunity, you’ve gotta take your shot, and you’ve gotta be bold. Otherwise, if you say to yourself, 'you know, it is probably a 50-50 shot that maybe the quarterback will be really good,' you can't let that deter you. So that’s how I look at it: You either have a really good QB and you compete for the Super Bowl, or you don’t and you are probably not competing for the Super Bowl. And that’s simple

[Sack that QB]

He's bottom third of the league in accuracy and arm strength among starters. His arm talent is severely lacking. Elite QBs possess top level in at least one of those traits, and a lot of the times both. He does neither. Arm strength virtually never improves. It's genetic. Accuracy can, but usually not from bad to elite.

His arm talent will always be lacking, and I think most of the positivity about Hurts is just fans in denial that don't want to admit the team lacks the most important thing to have in pro sports. Because without one, your team has no hope, and it's difficult to admit your team has no hope. So they talk themselves into something they deep down don't even truly believe.

The Eagles won't be truly relevant in the NFL again until they get "the guy" at QB. An elite player. Not easy to find, but that's why they're so important to get.

[nipples]

1 hour ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

If you're going to give credit to the QB for getting to the playoffs, be sure to give Carson his credit for taking the Eagles to the playoffs in 2017, 2018 and 2019. 

2017 and 2019 yes. 2018 they had a losing record when he got hurt, then Foles took over and got them in. 

[T-1000]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

I’m not making the case for Hurts. I’m saying that when you look realistically at the options his return makes the most sense.  They have many needs.  Why waste that draft capital by reaching for a trade?  They’re not going to do that.  

Don't waste your time trying to have an intelligent conversation that involves any type of nuance with that guy. Look no further than his poll which is essentially set up for people to proclaim ultimate love or hate for Hurts with two all or nothing voting options. He is incapable of understanding the grey area involved that goes into this discussion, not to mention he has a clear agenda.

[Shalodeep]

I keep reading about seeing his improvement next year, and my question for you all is what is your definition of improvement. What's the bar? Because going 62% 3300 yards, 21 tds, 10 ints would be an "improvement", but it still isn't good. So I'm curious is what is your guy's bar

[Devaster]

12 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I keep reading about seeing his improvement next year, and my question for you all is what is your definition of improvement. What's the bar? Because going 62% 3300 yards, 21 tds, 10 ints would be an "improvement", but it still isn't good. So I'm curious is what is your guy's bar

Mine would be improving his passing to be a competent passer. Beyond Lamar Jackson's level. Lamar Jackson is 1-3 in the playoffs and we have a similar QB that isn't as talented as a runner or a passer.

I'm not sure what a good metric for that would be, but there is probably one out there to represent that. I doubt he can hit that level though because he never showed it in college. That isn't to say players can't improve beyond what they did in college, but the limitations in college don't usually get better because in the NFL the windows are tighter, defenses are more complex, and every player out there is big, fast, and strong.

[Shalodeep]

22 minutes ago, Devaster said:

Mine would be improving his passing to be a competent passer. Beyond Lamar Jackson's level. Lamar Jackson is 1-3 in the playoffs and we have a similar QB that isn't as talented as a runner or a passer.

I'm not sure what a good metric for that would be, but there is probably one out there to represent that. I doubt he can hit that level though because he never showed it in college. That isn't to say players can't improve beyond what they did in college, but the limitations in college don't usually get better because in the NFL the windows are tighter, defenses are more complex, and every player out there is big, fast, and strong.

I feel a coach's son who has played the position his entire life who had the best college coach available would have the fundamentals down. He doesn't. He has no patience behind the line, he looks off the better throws for the ones he's comfortable with and then throws it with poor footwork and makes errors that should of been beat out of him in college. I feel the kid has hit his head on his ceiling already and any improvement will be minimal. 

[ManchesterEagle]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye said:

Exactly. When the emotions cool down people will have to acknowledge that, as a practical matter, Hurts is most likely to be the Eagles starter next season.  Why?

• They invested heavily in his development which they see as a work in progress
• It’s a weak draft class at. QB
• None of the veterans rumored to be on the trade market make sense for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the Eagles aren’t in a position to invest $40 million in cap space at the QB position next year

Hurts had a bad game yesterday but you could say that about most of the coaching staff and skill position players.  He’s coming back though.  That’s the reality.

 

1 hour ago, T-1000 said:

Didn't anyone tell you, we are only one average QB away from being a contender. We should trade high level assets and pay an average QB like Carr or Garappolo almost 30 million a year, so we can fail to address several of the other holes on this team.

 

55 minutes ago, LacesOut said:

Bring him back, one more season. If he fails to improve, there is a decent #2 QB on the roster who is ready to step in and play.

This team is a few more years/draft classes away from being SB contenders, so fill the holes of the other positions first, IMO. Which there are many. Ugh.

Glad I'm not alone any more. Felt like banging my head against a brick wall.

I think Hurts may well not be the guy and his performance against the Bucs was definitely concerning. But there are a number of people on this board who just can't accept that he has had a decent season for a first time starter and that his game has progressed. They just want rid of him regardless.

I would be open to alternatives for Hurts, but the alternatives are either to waste cap on a journeyman free agent, overspend on one of the big 3 (who all may or may not be available) or trade up in what is regarded as a poor draft for QBs.

Draft heavy on the D-Line, sign a decent WR2 in free agency and try and trade back for a 1st or 2nd next year so we can get a QB then if Hurts doesn't come on enough.

[Seventy_Yard_FG]

18 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

A running QB who runs great and passes solidly but not spectacularly.  The Eagles have that, with Jalen Hurts.

Make sure you have 1) -  a great defense   and 2) great running backs,  with at least one great power back.  

The Eagles won 4 games last year.  With a QB who was making $30 M a year.  They ditched the overpaid guy, and they had his $30 M bonus hit the cap.   Still,  with the key power back as Howard, and a defense which could definitely use a handful of stars,  they lost to the best QB of all time on the team that won the Super Bowl last year.  

Not bad at all.

I'd trade for Tom Brady.  Tom Brady won the Super Bowl 4 out of the last 7 years.  And the Eagles lost to him.  If the Eagles had him,  they would not have lost to him.  Tom Brady is great.  I prefer running QBs,  because teams can spend almost nothing on running QBs and they can take your team to the playoffs.

The 2 top running backs for the Eagles this year,  Sanders and Howard,  combined for 7 carries and 16 yards.   That's quite poor for a team that is a run first team. 

The offense was ineffective.   That's part Hurts,  part everyone else on the offense. 

The Eagles went down 17-0 in the first half.  The 0 is bad, but so is the 17.  The first half had punts by the Eagles,  and long drives leading to 2 TDs and 1 FG by the Bucs.  This shouldn't be a major surprise.  Super Bowl winning Bucs with Brady the best QB ever.

 Bad offense + Bad defense against great team.  Don't trash 9-8 team,  add more talent to a various assortment of positions.  

When run first teams with running QBs get to the playoffs,  they really need to be able to unveil new run wrinkles that will surprise the defense.  The Ravens didn't do that in 18,19,20,  and their playoff record was 1-3.  The Ravens also didn't run enough, and it looks like the Eagles didn't run enough, either.   It seems like a trend for the run first teams with the running QBs to stop running in the playoffs and then lose.   the Ravens won one playoff game,  that was the one where Lamar ran for a 50 yard TD.

The Eagles have a great OL,  they should be able to open holes in the line for the power back to run through.   That is normal stuff that should work.  If it isn't,   you have extra OLs,  who you put on the field to get that power back up the middle thing to work.  The Eagles didn't have Howard run the ball once.   They have Sanders try to run around the line.  That didn't work.  Sanders + End = generally bad results.  Except the first play on offense - Sanders right end 7.

Sanders runs

(10:00 - 1st) M.Sanders right end to PHI 32 for 7 yards (M.Edwards).  ***  good

(6:06 - 1st) (Shotgun) M.Sanders right end to PHI 28 for -5 yards (J.Whitehead).

(0:20 - 1st) M.Sanders left tackle  to PHI 29 for 2 yards (N.Suh; V.Vea).
(5:26 - 2nd) (Shotgun) M.Sanders right end to TB 38 for -1 yards (D.White).

(15:00 - 3rd) (Shotgun) M.Sanders right tackle to PHI 27 for 2 yards (N.Suh).

(7:38 - 3rd) (Shotgun) M.Sanders left end to PHI 39 for 14 yards (M.Edwards). *** good
(1:03 - 3rd) M.Sanders left end to PHI 17 for -3 yards (M.Edwards).

4 runs = 25 yards
3 runs = -9 yards

not good. 

It's mostly just that the Bucs, with the best QB and who won the Super Bowl last year,  were the better team.  This is something that everyone knew 12 hours ago.

 

 

How is Tom Brady an option?  Even if he was, it’s too soon to know if he’s committed to another season yet.

Rogers is turning to his career in the House of Representatives I think or it looks like.

I always like Russell Wilson, but you get him, how long is he a good player compared to a lifetime you have in front of Hurts.  
 

I think the league has to make some formatting changes eventually, maybe not this year.  We’re nearing 60 Super Bowls.  Anyone who was going to get one, has one.  Nobody will ever surpass Brady at 8 under these rules.  Who really cares about just another Super Bowl?  The Super Bowl was founded at the unification of two separate leagues.  Perhaps invite a third league to contest a championship?  No need for regular season interaction.  Just a title game

[GeorgeM37]

1 minute ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

Glad I'm not alone any more. Felt like banging my head against a brick wall.

I think Hurts may well not be the guy and his performance against the Bucs was definitely concerning. But there are a number of people on this board who just can't accept that he has had a decent season for a first time starter and that his game has progressed. They just want rid of him regardless.

I would be open to alternatives for Hurts, but the alternatives are either to waste cap on a journeyman free agent, overspend on one of the big 3 (who all may or may not be available) or trade up in what is regarded as a poor draft for QBs.

Draft heavy on the D-Line, sign a decent WR2 in free agency and try and trade back for a 1st or 2nd next year so we can get a QB then if Hurts doesn't come on enough.

And there you have it. No matter how much he improves, people don't want him here. They are not willing to give him anymore chances for improvement unlike their god wentz, who had five years to prove it. And no, I am no Hurts apologist because although the kid is easy to like with his wanting to get better and his work ethic, I don't think he is THAT GUY, which I said earlier in the season. 

But having this conversation on this board is truly an exercise in futility....

[T-1000]

7 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

Glad I'm not alone any more. Felt like banging my head against a brick wall.

I think Hurts may well not be the guy and his performance against the Bucs was definitely concerning. But there are a number of people on this board who just can't accept that he has had a decent season for a first time starter and that his game has progressed. They just want rid of him regardless.

I would be open to alternatives for Hurts, but the alternatives are either to waste cap on a journeyman free agent, overspend on one of the big 3 (who all may or may not be available) or trade up in what is regarded as a poor draft for QBs.

Draft heavy on the D-Line, sign a decent WR2 in free agency and try and trade back for a 1st or 2nd next year so we can get a QB then if Hurts doesn't come on enough.

I couldn't agree more with all of this, well said. In a perfect world I would prefer a better QB than Hurts but for a number of reasons it probably makes the most sense for the Eagles to bring him back for at least one more year. He is also nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be. He gets zero benefit of the doubt from some that he might be able to improve as a passer, but also gets zero credit for how much his threat makes the Eagles run game better. It's quite easy to spot the ones with the agendas, for example starting this thread directly after Hurts plays a poor game playoff game against the defending SB champs.

6 minutes ago, GeorgeM37 said:

And there you have it. No matter how much he improves, people don't want him here. They are not willing to give him anymore chances for improvement unlike their god wentz, who had five years to prove it. And no, I am no Hurts apologist because although the kid is easy to like with his wanting to get better and his work ethic, I don't think he is THAT GUY, which I said earlier in the season. 

But having this conversation on this board is truly an exercise in futility....

M faith in this place is being restored little by little with posts like this and the one above.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I think Hurts may well not be the guy and his performance against the Bucs was definitely concerning. But there are a number of people on this board who just can't accept that he has had a decent season for a first time starter and that his game has progressed.

He did not have a good season, and his game did not progress.  He was the same after Detroit as he was before Detroit.

[T-1000]

More lies and propaganda being spread by the Wentz fan boys....

[VaBeach_Eagle]

1 hour ago, nipples said:

2017 and 2019 yes. 2018 they had a losing record when he got hurt, then Foles took over and got them in. 

But without his wins, we don't make it. Each win counts, so he gets credit.

Of course, I credit more than a single player. 

[nipples]

2 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

But without his wins, we don't make it. Each win counts, so he gets credit.

Of course, I credit more than a single player. 

I can’t get on board with that argument. I’d argue that if he hadn’t lost more games than he won, they’d have ended with a better seed and potentially gone further in the playoffs. 

[VaBeach_Eagle]

Just now, nipples said:

I can’t get on board with that argument. I’d argue that if he hadn’t lost more games than he won, they’d have ended with a better seed and potentially gone further in the playoffs. 

It's not really an argument. I don't actually credit a single player, positively or negatively. Playoffs are a full team effort. Not only on the gameday field, but even in the meeting rooms and on the practice field. 

But if someone wants to give full credit to Hurts now, since he started the majority of the season, then the same needs to be done with other QBs. 

[time2rock]

Not sure which thread asking for my opinion on QB for 2022 I like better.  Decisions decisions.  🤔

[Guest]

3 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

It's not really an argument. I don't actually credit a single player, positively or negatively. Playoffs are a full team effort. Not only on the gameday field, but even in the meeting rooms and on the practice field. 

But if someone wants to give full credit to Hurts now, since he started the majority of the season, then the same needs to be done with other QBs. 

Yep.  

[CouchKing]

Hurts is so awesome. We could probably trade him for maybe a second rounder.

Start Minshew.

[kiwieagle]

12 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I'm not saying he's the guy, on balance over the season he probably isn't. But we need to build the team and not panic trade for or draft a QB. If that means another year/half year of Hurts to make absolutely sure he's not the guy then that still makes sense to me. 

Yep, this is where I am at. Don't force a change but by no means they need to wait and feel like they need to give Hurts more time. If they love a Pickett or Strong or someone else in the draft, they absolutely should pull the trigger on that guy. Yeah its a weak class but so was the Tursbisky/Mahomes/Watson class whereas Winston/Mariota was thought as being great  

[NOTW]

5 hours ago, time2rock said:

Not sure which thread asking for my opinion on QB for 2022 I like better.  Decisions decisions.  🤔

These polls are a weekly thing now. 

[PoconoDon]

Hurts = QB2.

Minshew = QB2.

I don't care which one starts in 2022 since they won't have a chance of getting a good QB1 until the 2023 draft.