How do you feel about Hurts as the QB next year

[mr_hunt]

hey, the niners might dump jimmy g...so there's that!  

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

51 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I didn’t say all three this year. I said three overall. 

If you Google Russell Wilson asking price, generally most journalists and "inside sources” think 3 first round picks. Now obviously grain of salt needed, but it makes sense that it would be more than Stafford, because Wilson is better and has actually won a playoff game. Wilson would have a market as well given he is an 8 time pro-bowler.

But anyway we both agree it’s not a good idea.

I'm not saying you did necessarily, but there is too much of the "three 1st round picks destroy the teams ability to build the roster" fantasy.   It just changes how they build it and the Wentz contract correction helps that. 

Again, I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't rule it out for the Eagles.  The team has no "face" fronting the organization and I'd bet Lurie wants that.

[ManchesterEagle]

1 hour ago, nipples said:

Truth is, there are not a lot of great options that make sense. Between the cap hit and the draft capital, both Wilson and Rodgers would be crippling moves to make for a team that still has quite a few holes to fill. Watson I wouldn’t even look at with his legal issues.
 

Then there’s the draft… there’s not a single QB in the field this year that I’d waste a first on. Let alone wasting more resources to move up to get one, which they would likely have to do. 

I don’t think Hurts is the long-term answer. But I think next season needs to be about fixing the rest of the roster and then go get your QB in 2023. 

 

23 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I don't think anybody thinks Hurts should be de facto starter, most want him to have some competition, I wouldn't object to Mariota as it goes, a fight would be good for the team.

I would not object to Hurts having to earn his job in TC. Personally I would not waste money on another FA, but just let Minshew compete with him.

Most people are reacting emotionally to the loss. I get it and Hurts was awful. No defending him for that game.

But I watched the games this year and I saw growth and improvement from Hurts, aside from two stinkers against NY and against Tampa. I don't care that his completion percentage remained around 61%. You could just see him delivering the ball more accurately, standing in the pocket and going through his progressions.

What if he can get that 61% up just a bit to 64%/65%? Couple that with a guy who can run for 800 yards and 10 TDs and you have a QB that could give a lot of teams trouble.

It should be Hurts and Minshew next year. Then see where we are in 2023. 

[Thing3]

Another concern I have about bringing in a FA is Siri. I think he could use another year to grow as a coach and I wouldn't want to pay big salaries to players that could end up not being coached to their full potential. I'm not saying Siri is a bad coach. I just believe giving him and the younger players another year to grow will ultimately benefit the QB, not to mention our chances of landing a good one. If there was a good cheap young prospect I would say sure, let everyone grow together. But I think it's a waste of time and money to pay top dollar for a FA, especially an older one. I believe having some patients will pay off in the end.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Most people are reacting emotionally to the loss.

False.  We are reacting to the entire body of work which is not good enough.  He has not improved at arm strength, pre snap recognition, processing his reads.

[Ajxxx]

I liked hurts but we cannot argue the fact that he doesn't read the field well or anticipate routes to throw ppl open. 

Am on the wagon to load the D with our 3 first rounders. The issue is we can win with hurts but not big games against good teams.

As much as I don't like it, Wilson (Rodgers I doubt would even come here) is the best bet with a 1st rounder this year plus hurts plus say something next year. No way they r getting 3 1sts with his age and that cap hit. That would be palatable I believe for us.

[Devaster]

Jimmy G may also be available depending on how things go down in San Fransisco in the off-season. They have a 1st round QB they just drafted. Jimmy G has been a very good starting QB when he actually plays. Injuries have been a concern for him though. He would be behind one of the best OLines in Philly though.

[ManchesterEagle]

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

False.  We are reacting to the entire body of work which is not good enough.  He has not improved at arm strength, pre snap recognition, processing his reads.

Incorrect. 

You and a few others have always been on the don't want Hurts bandwagon I accept that.

But before this game on my poll over 70% of people wanted Hurts as the undisputed starter in 2022 and over 80% wanted him at least competing with Minshew for the opportunity to start in 2022. Now over 75% of people want no part of Hurts next year on your poll.

That is not looking at the overall body of work, that is overreacting to one game.

[Devaster]

7 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

I would not object to Hurts having to earn his job in TC. Personally I would not waste money on another FA, but just let Minshew compete with him.

Most people are reacting emotionally to the loss. I get it and Hurts was awful. No defending him for that game.

But I watched the games this year and I saw growth and improvement from Hurts, aside from two stinkers against NY and against Tampa. I don't care that his completion percentage remained around 61%. You could just see him delivering the ball more accurately, standing in the pocket and going through his progressions.

What if he can get that 61% up just a bit to 64%/65%? Couple that with a guy who can run for 800 yards and 10 TDs and you have a QB that could give a lot of teams trouble.

It should be Hurts and Minshew next year. Then see where we are in 2023. 

There was some growth for sure. But I also saw way too many games this year where Hurts didn't do anything until the game was already out of hand and over and the opponent started playing soft/prevent defense. That is exactly how the playoff game just went. We saw the growth when the coaching staff changed to a run-heavy scheme and took the ball out of Hurts' hands as much as possible.

How can you expect to win long-term when the HC is actively taking the ball out of their QB's hands? The QB touches the ball the most of any player on the team and is the most important position. The QB is supposed to be the best player. I just don't see it with Hurts. I didn't see it when he played college and I still don't see it. Let's not forget he was benched in the National Championship game for Alabama for Tua.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Incorrect. 

You and a few others have always been on the don't want Hurts bandwagon I accept that.

But before this game on my poll over 70% of people wanted Hurts as the undisputed starter in 2022 and over 80% wanted him at least competing with Minshew for the opportunity to start in 2022. Now over 75% of people want no part of Hurts next year on your poll.

That is not looking at the overall body of work, that is overreacting to one game.

He has not improved.  Before Detroit when the Eagles went run heavy, and after Detroit there was no improvement.

The 7 games before Detroit, Hurts had 2 of his 5 lowest QBR games.  
His other 3 lowest games QBR wise were weeks 15, 16 and 17.

He threw 6 TD's with 5 picks in the 7 games after Detroit.  He only threw for more than 200 yards twice after the Detroit game.  
He threw 10 TD's with 4 picks in the 7 games before Detroit.

Before Detroit, 61.16 completion percentage, after Detroit, 61.36 %.  .2 percent improvement.  And he threw 68 less passes.  

There was no improvement in Hurts after Detroit.  There was an improvement by the coaching staff taking the ball out of his hands and leaning on the running game.

[Thing3]

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

False.  We are reacting to the entire body of work which is not good enough.  He has not improved at arm strength, pre snap recognition, processing his reads.

I think most can agree with that and I don't believe anyone is saying Hurts is the likely starter beyond next year. What I believe most are saying is that he is a cheap placeholder until we get the rest of the house in order. It's like rebuilding a car. First you need to patch up the rust on the body and make sure the suspension, brakes etc are up to par before you go putting in a new more powerful engine in it. We've got much of the body work done, let work on the suspension and brakes before we go dropping an engine it.

[mr_hunt]

16 minutes ago, downundermike said:

False.  We are reacting to the entire body of work which is not good enough.  He has not improved at arm strength, pre snap recognition, processing his reads.

 

somebody has a serious case of HDS     

 

 

 

 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

For people asking why other people assume we'd be giving up multiple firsts this year for Wilson,

a) we have multiple firsts this year and Seattle are going to want to replace Wilson,

b) If we take on Wilson's contract, we'll be wanting to dump contracts not pay multiple first rounders and

c) after we've dealt with the cap issues in point b, there's a decent shot we'd be giving up higher 1st round picks the first couple of years (Deshaun Watson's career year going 4-12 as exhibit a),  any gambler will tell you, you don't trade a potential future top ten overall when you hold a confirmed 15, 16 and 19.

[Random Reglar]

58 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Another cheap option is to take a flyer on Mariota and let them compete for the job next year. I'm willing to explore all options. I just think simply handing the job to Hurts is insane.

I like Mariota.   He's only costing the Raiders 3.5 M this year.  He had a winning record in his seasons in Tenn as primary starter 3 out of 4 years.  Still young, still fast.   1-1 record in the playoffs.

I don't know if Hurts is better than Mariota.   I give Hurts a lot of praise for getting the Eagles from a 4 win team to a 9 win team.  The ability to run really well makes up for the passing things that people complain about. 

So, I'd think that yes, you can give Hurts the starter job.   But you don't have to have a really cheap QB room.   You have to consider that Hurts might suck (not win games).

Whether Mariota or Hurts is better doesn't really matter.   Both are better than Reid Sirrett.  Sirrett took up a roster spot this year, and the spot Sirrett took up would be better in the hands of Mariota.    Others to consider for the Sirrett spot would include Cam Newton and Tyrod Taylor.    I've also been interested in the Chargers Easton Stick,  who both Siri and Shane know.  Maybe he'll work.  Running QBs tend to get banged up, and it's useful to have that backup qb to come in if the starter - let's say Hurts - isn't running well.  Mariota was faster than Hurts coming out of college.   I also like Malik Willis, QB from Liberty,   Hurts and Willis are quite similar physically,  similar speed and quickness, etc,  it appears, would want to see combine and pro day numbers.

For me, it seems close to ideal if you have 2 or 3 very similar running QBs.  Build the system so that a young running QB coming out of college can do well.   A 2nd round pick on the rookie contract is cheap.  And teams can put 3 on the roster.  Hurts has 2 years as a starter, as I see it, and Willis if they got him would have 2 years on the bench, and Hurts goes and after 2 years Willis is the starter.   2 years of Willis then the next guy.   This is done to prevent having to pay a QB 30-40 million a year.  A fully stocked QB room with cheap running QBs.  Hurts + Mariota + Willis is one way to go,  but there are a certain amount of QBs available.


 

[Talonblood]

Dave Zangaro summed up my thoughts for me, and I quote:

"For all the talk about Hurts’ character and his leadership and his poise and all the intangible qualities he has — and he has a ton of them — none of those things help him hit a slant with anticipation or a streaking receiver down the sideline."

That's it in a nutshell for me. Hurts is a great guy with lots of good qualities and I wish him the best. Just not as the Eagles starting QB. I'm not sure what the Eagles do now. I hate to see all those #1 picks get tossed for a QB. Do they keep Hurts for 2022 and probably not make the playoffs, due to having to play more winning teams, while using those picks to bolster the roster, then go for a QB in 2023- if Hurts doesn't progress? I think that may be the answer, rather than grab a well known, aging QB who will be gone in 2 years. Can the Eagles hang in there until 2023 to find a QB, while giving Hurts one more year- like a mini "76ers Process" situation?

[NJWolverEagle11]

17 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

Dave Zangaro summed up my thoughts for me, and I quote:

"For all the talk about Hurts’ character and his leadership and his poise and all the intangible qualities he has — and he has a ton of them — none of those things help him hit a slant with anticipation or a streaking receiver down the sideline."

That's it in a nutshell for me. Hurts is a great guy with lots of good qualities and I wish him the best. Just not as the Eagles starting QB. I'm not sure what the Eagles do now. I hate to see all those #1 picks get tossed for a QB. Do they keep Hurts for 2022 and probably not make the playoffs, due to having to play more winning teams, while using those picks to bolster the roster, then go for a QB in 2023- if Hurts doesn't progress? I think that may be the answer, rather than grab a well known, aging QB who will be gone in 2 years. Can the Eagles hang in there until 2023 to find a QB, while giving Hurts one more year- like a mini "76ers Process" situation?

Didn't like him at bama, didnt like the pick, 0 has happened since to change my mind 

[D-Shiznit]

I really like Hurts - great kid, easy to root for, very likeable, and a real leader.

But this past Sunday needs to be his last game in Eagle Green as a designated starter.

[nipples]

22 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

Dave Zangaro summed up my thoughts for me, and I quote:

"For all the talk about Hurts’ character and his leadership and his poise and all the intangible qualities he has — and he has a ton of them — none of those things help him hit a slant with anticipation or a streaking receiver down the sideline."

That's it in a nutshell for me. Hurts is a great guy with lots of good qualities and I wish him the best. Just not as the Eagles starting QB. I'm not sure what the Eagles do now. I hate to see all those #1 picks get tossed for a QB. Do they keep Hurts for 2022 and probably not make the playoffs, due to having to play more winning teams, while using those picks to bolster the roster, then go for a QB in 2023- if Hurts doesn't progress? I think that may be the answer, rather than grab a well known, aging QB who will be gone in 2 years. Can the Eagles hang in there until 2023 to find a QB, while giving Hurts one more year- like a mini "76ers Process" situation?

He really left a lot of points on the field yesterday. Accuracy was just abysmal on anything over 15 yards, and completely missed seeing some open receivers. Couple deep balls should have been TDs, and his hesitation and lack of arm strength in getting the ball out turned a TD to a pick on that first interception. Or maybe it was the second interception… I don’t know, it’s a blur. The one to Smith near the left pylon. 

[Random Reglar]

22 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

 

somebody has a serious case of HDS     

 

 

 

 

Pff has Hurts as the number 10 qb or something like that.   That's sufficient.  Especially when you're paying 1.5 M a year.   when you're only paying that, there's a good amount more money for other positions.   And you're not stuck with a long term financial committment.

I'm happy with first year starter taking the Eagles from 4 wins to 9 wins.   That's sufficient. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

49 minutes ago, downundermike said:

False.  We are reacting to the entire body of work which is not good enough.  He has not improved at arm strength, pre snap recognition, processing his reads.

That's Hurtscuse #1 for the offseason - It was just one game!   

 

[ManchesterEagle]

Just now, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

That's Hurtscuse #1 for the offseason - It was just one game!   

 

My point was that a majority of this board changed their view on Hurts because of one game. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

That's Hurtscuse #1 for the offseason - It was just one game!   

 

Except it wasn't.  We see it, they choose not to.

[Random Reglar]

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

The Saints make sense. I'll give you guys that. They'd be a better option for guys like Rodgers and Wilson. I doubt the Cowboys are dumping Prescott, and the Raiders will probably stick with Carr. 

Last year the Saints went 9-3 with Winston and Hill.  They might want to get Rodgers or Wilson,  but they got good results from both their 1 and 2 starters,   number 3 and 4 went 0-5.

What about teams like the Giants, Jets, Washington and a few other teams that don't have QBs that win for them?  

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

My point was that a majority of this board changed their view on Hurts because of one game. 

That poll was after beating substandard teams, it was recency bias.  Now the whole body of work is being considered.

[Random Reglar]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Except it wasn't.  We see it, they choose not to.

Hurts took the Eagles to the playoffs.

He's a great runner.

I don't care about your complaining about success.   Going to the playoffs with 9 wins after the 30 Million guy took the Eagles to a 4 win season is success.

Hurts was successful.  That's not an excuse.  It was success.

Running QBs do better - at winning - than non running QBs.   Eagles,  winning record,  first year as the primary starter.  Impressive.

Good Job Hurts!!!