EMB Blog: 2022 Off-Season

[RememberTheKoy]

51 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

It's not about 1 playoff game.  Not fair to Hurts to compare him to Josh Allen.  

 

It's very fair to compare him.  Dual threat QBs who took time to develop their passing game at the pro level. 

[LeanMeanGM]

33 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

my thought at the beginning of the year was you wanted hurts to be either really good/great or really bad. You didn’t want somewhere in the middle where he wasn’t bad enough but he also wasn’t good enough to commit to tying yourself to him him long term and stuck in no man’s land. I would argue being stuck in no man’s land at QB is arguably worse than if hurts was just awful this year. 

I always thought this outcome was inevitable. He'd make just enough plays with his legs to win some games and be fools gold for some, while doing nothing to change anyone's mind that was out or skeptical about him.

[Cliftoma]

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

You must be new here...

Nope been around on the Eagles message boards since 2000.  Just saying the focus should be where needed.  Hurts/Reagor/Barnett/Kerrigan are just symptoms of the infectious disease that is Howie Roseman and his terrible player acquisitions.  

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

It's very fair to compare him.  Dual threat QBs who took time to develop their passing game at the pro level. 

It's like comparing a Howitzer to a derringer.   No comparison at all. 

[RLC]

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

If I were looking to deal Hurts, Seattle is the first place I'd call.  I think the comparison is crazy, but we all know he has been compared to Russell Wilson.  Pete Carroll is cocky and has some crazy ideas.  That's the exact combination you need in a potential buyer for Hurts so they think they could create something we could not.  This could potentially apply to the meathead in Detroit as well, who might love Jalen's swag.

I really don't think anyone else would bite, unless it's a much later pick for a backup role.

100%

For those who want to get rid of Hurts, root for a Wilson trade. Other teams with picks (ex: NYG) can't offer a QB back. Hurts is a Carroll type guy too.

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, Cliftoma said:

Nope been around on the Eagles message boards since 2000.  Just saying the focus should be where needed.  Hurts/Reagor/Barnett/Kerrigan are just symptoms of the infectious disease that is Howie Roseman and his terrible player acquisitions.  

Uh.... yeah, we know.  

[eagle45]

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not if we grab him at #19...    (Best to throw smoke off of that though.... Hurts is our guy!!!  RAH RAH!    SWAG!!!   dancing feet to avoid falling railings and fans!   )

I wouldn't say I'm in love with Strong...mostly because it's so hard to be in love with a QB prospect.  I wasn't in love with Lawrence or Luck either.  Projecting a QB prospect is more akin to projecting a HS baseball prospect for the draft.  There is so much growth that needs to happen even for the elite guys before you know what they will become.  Plug any of them into AAA ball and they'll suck.  Plug any of these QB's into an NFL offense and they are going to be out of their depth...and how they adjust is very unpredictable.

But he checks all the boxes as a passer.  And to have a crack at someone who checks all those boxes with the last of 3 first round picks...that's great value.  I like that better than consolidating all those picks into a more hyped prospect for a top 5 pick in 2023.  

[HazletonEagle]

53 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Dean was paired with a big LB that could move in Quay Walker.  Was he available?

Probably.  He goes later than beavers on that simulator.

[Alphagrand]

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Do you want to win another SB or just make the playoffs?

No QB can take this current team to the SB, Herbert couldn't even take a Chargers team with similar talent to the playoffs.

So if you trade 2+ 1st rd picks for a good but not great veteran QB, what's the point? And if you trade for Rodgers, he's missed the playoffs with mediocre GB teams, what makes you think you can build a good enough team in two years before he falls off the proverbial cliff? And if you put a young QB on an average team, how many years before you have a shot at a SB?

The kind of trades people are talking about are the ones you make 2-3 years from now after you've built a team that can go 11-6 with Hurts or Minshew or some other middle of the pack QB. We saw that in TB, they're loaded on both sides of the ball, and Brady looks great because he's not asked to do too much - same with Stafford on the Rams. Build a top 5 team and you can plug in a good but not great veteran QB (veteran is the key). Build an average team and you'd better both land a HOF caliber QB at his peak and get lucky. And if you build a team like that, you can get a QB in the middle of the 1st rd, groom him for a year and give him an environment where he can succeed.

We won a SB with Foles b/c that team was peaking and lucky in 2017. Once injuries started to hit, you could have added Brady and you weren't going deep into the playoffs.

Your entire post I would say is fair enough, but can the Eagles win a Super Bowl with Jalen Hurts? 

Given that Hurts was rated as a 3rd round prospect that was taken in the 2nd round -- and is now halfway to the expiry of his rookie deal -- do you go back into the draft and spend a 3rd round pick on Desmond Ridder or Carson Strong?  Do you trade Hurts for the additional 3rd round pick that would pay for this draft choice?  Because if you say No, wait and play Hurts another year and see what you have -- and the answer is you can't win a Super Bowl with Hurts, then any value he has will be much, much less because he becomes a player on the last year of his rookie deal who will want a big raise.

I think the Eagles could get a 3rd round pick for Hurts if the acquiring team sees him as a starting QB.  At the end of next season I think that value drops to a 5th or 6th round pick with him on the last year of a cheap deal.

[greendestiny27]

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm good with this.   Howie generally knows value, but stinks at actually identifying talent.  I think Mayock can identify talent.    Incidentally, Arnette is a very talented CB.  His biggest issues are with his off the field, not on the field stuff.

Problem is they wouldn't listen to Mayock. They would still take their dumb nonsensical players whenever they want. I don't think Weidl is a moron, him and his scouts had Jefferson listed above Reagor. They just think they are smarter than everyone else. 

[Iggles_Phan]

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I wouldn't say I'm in love with Strong...mostly because it's so hard to be in love with a QB prospect.  I wasn't in love with Lawrence or Luck either.  Projecting a QB prospect is more akin to projecting a HS baseball prospect for the draft.  There is so much growth that needs to happen even for the elite guys before you know what they will become.  Plug any of them into AAA ball and they'll suck.  Plug any of these QB's into an NFL offense and they are going to be out of their depth...and how they adjust is very unpredictable.

But he checks all the boxes as a passer.  And to have a crack at someone who checks all those boxes with the last of 3 first round picks...that's great value.  I like that better than consolidating all those picks into a more hyped prospect for a top 5 pick in 2023.  

I am more in love with Strong than any other alternative right now.  Let him learn behind Minshew and start in 2023.

[Iggles_Phan]

12 minutes ago, austinfan said:

We won a SB with Foles b/c that team was peaking and lucky in 2017. 

So glad to see you finally admit that it wasn't any master plan by Howie, but just luck that every move worked out. 

 

[GroundAttack]

Would like us to go after Allen Robinson or Adam Thielen

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

In 3 seasons, Wentz threw 4 passes in the post-season, of course you needed a backup who could come in and win games off the bench.

 

Yes they could’ve gone the route to get a veteran backup QB. You know like they did this past off-season when they had even less cap space and they got a cheap back up veteran quarterback in Joe Flacco. you remember when they told us we needed a cheap backup QB largely due to cap issues wellllll they had worse cap issues this year and managed to get 2 cheap veteran backup QBs  

considering the fact in 2021 off-season they had less cap space. And you know what they did? they went and signed Joe Flacco to a contract that was cheap and he was a veteran back up with experience. On top of that they did gave him contract that it was going to affect their cap space for the next two years as well. On top of just going out and getting Joe Flacco they traded a sixth round pick to get Gardner Minshew also cheap backup with experience. So this logic they just had to spend a second round pick to get a cheap backup QB is a bunch of Fing BS spun by you. No they didn’t have to spend a second round pick to get a cheap back up quarterback

[DEagle7]

13 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Tua sucks just as much.

I dunno about that.  He at least has a respectable completion percentage. Don't think he's anything special though. 

[austinfan]

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Your entire post I would say is fair enough, but can the Eagles win a Super Bowl with Jalen Hurts? 

Given that Hurts was rated as a 3rd round prospect that was taken in the 2nd round -- and is now halfway to the expiry of his rookie deal -- do you go back into the draft and spend a 3rd round pick on Desmond Ridder or Carson Strong?  Do you trade Hurts for the additional 3rd round pick that would pay for this draft choice?  Because if you say No, wait and play Hurts another year and see what you have -- and the answer is you can't win a Super Bowl with Hurts, then any value he has will be much, much less because he becomes a player on the last year of his rookie deal who will want a big raise.

I think the Eagles could get a 3rd round pick for Hurts if the acquiring team sees him as a starting QB.  At the end of next season I think that value drops to a 5th or 6th round pick with him on the last year of a cheap deal.

It doesn't matter if they win a SB with Hurts, that decision is two years down the road.

First build the team, then when you have a top 5 team sans QB, then you go QB hunting. When the Rams traded for Stafford, they were trading late 1st rd picks. When the Bucs signed Brady, they were an attractive destination for any veteran FA QB who wanted to win a SB. The mistake teams make is to become impatient: "we made the playoffs, if only we had the right QB" when they're still a middle of the pack team.

Eagles have a chance with this draft to build the foundation of a top 5 team for the rest of the decade. Don't blow chasing a "will-O-the-wisp"

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

So glad to see you finally admit that it wasn't any master plan by Howie, but just luck that every move worked out. 

 

Luck is the residue of design.

[eagle45]

I am somewhat on the same page with Afan in that I do think the best course of action is to let the franchise QB come to you.  Those all-in trades for either vets or top 3 picks just don't go very well.

If you are one of the worst teams in the NFL, have that top 5 pick, and the right prospect is there...pull the trigger. 

If you don't have that franchise QB but also don't totally suck (that's us), then you have 2 options.  Keep looking for someone in the draft...every draft.  I don't know that he'll amount to anything, but Davis Mills was a very good passing prospect.  Rodgers famously dropped.  Dak, Foles, and Russel Wilson were 3rd round picks (not saying they are all HOF studs).  Strong won't go in the top of the draft.  But if you don't have a top 3 pick or a $200m investment in the position, it doesn't hurt to keep swinging.  It's the equivalent of being single.  Whip out your D...ating app and start swiping.  

In the meantime, keep using the picks and cap space that aren't allocated to a franchise QB to build your roster...and maybe the roster will get stacked enough for a veteran franchise QB to hand-pick your team so they can go hunting for a title.  

[greend]

27 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

The Steelers could be a plausible landing spot for him.

Rudolph isn't anything special.  They are picking #20, so not in a position to choose one of the better QBs.

 

Hurts isn't anything special either. 

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Luck is the residue of design.

Fancy little cliché.   

 

Retirement planning by Homer...

 

[Alphagrand]

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

It doesn't matter if they win a SB with Hurts, that decision is two years down the road.

 

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Eagles have a chance with this draft to build the foundation of a top 5 team for the rest of the decade. Don't blow chasing a "will-O-the-wisp"

The decision could be made today, and you keep all of your draft resources if you get a 3rd round pick for Hurts and use it on drafting a more suitable prospect, and have 4 years to develop them.  You really want to 'make do' for two more years with a QB who hasn't won a football game with his passing arm in his entire career to date? 

[Iggles_Phan]

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I am somewhat on the same page with Afan in that I do think the best course of action is to let the franchise QB come to you.  Those all-in trades for either vets or top 3 picks just don't go very well.

Sure.  But, if you want to play the odds game...  how many franchise QBs hit the market?  

 

I get the argument about not going all in for a QB, because the odds are stacked against you for it to work out.  Of course, the odds are stacked against you even if it DOES work out.   The Packers with Favre won 1 Super Bowl.  Packers with Rodgers - 1.  Colts with P Manning - 1.  Saints with Drew Brees - 1.  Dolphins with Marino - 0.   Bills with Kelly - 0.  Chargers with Fouts - 0.   Winning the Super Bowl is tough, but that should always be the goal.    And having that Franchise QB for his entire career just keeps the window open longer.  The rest of the team around him needs to be good enough too.   But, its also rare for a team without that franchise QB to have a shot at sustained success with a long open window.  Those teams are usually one and done and quickly fizzle out.  

[eagle45]

I actually do think they might cut Reagor, maybe even early in the offseason.  Under most circumstances (JJAW et al), they'll cling to the bad picks to both give them every opportunity and to avoid the label of cutting day 1/2 picks before the contract is over.

Reagor, however, has a few extra things going against him.  He seems to have an attitude problem and is a net negative on ST, both of which really separate him from JJAW.  Additionally, while the optics may not be great for prematurely cutting draft picks, I think Howie knows that Reagor has become persona non grata.  Cutting Reagor early and unceremoniously decompresses a little steam out of the pressure cooker.   I think the FO will be happy to offer that blood to the fans.

[Desertbirds]

25 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Do you want to win another SB or just make the playoffs?

No QB can take this current team to the SB, Herbert couldn't even take a Chargers team with similar talent to the playoffs.

So if you trade 2+ 1st rd picks for a good but not great veteran QB, what's the point? And if you trade for Rodgers, he's missed the playoffs with mediocre GB teams, what makes you think you can build a good enough team in two years before he falls off the proverbial cliff? And if you put a young QB on an average team, how many years before you have a shot at a SB?

The kind of trades people are talking about are the ones you make 2-3 years from now after you've built a team that can go 11-6 with Hurts or Minshew or some other middle of the pack QB. We saw that in TB, they're loaded on both sides of the ball, and Brady looks great because he's not asked to do too much - same with Stafford on the Rams. Build a top 5 team and you can plug in a good but not great veteran QB (veteran is the key). Build an average team and you'd better both land a HOF caliber QB at his peak and get lucky. And if you build a team like that, you can get a QB in the middle of the 1st rd, groom him for a year and give him an environment where he can succeed.

We won a SB with Foles b/c that team was peaking and lucky in 2017. Once injuries started to hit, you could have added Brady and you weren't going deep into the playoffs.

This is so intellectually lazy - and you know it.

[Outlaw]

11 minutes ago, GroundAttack said:

Would like us to go after Allen Robinson or Adam Thieland

DJ Chark is my guy for talent to cost ratio. I think a 6'4" guy across from DeVonta is a plus.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

28 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Do you want to win another SB or just make the playoffs?

No QB can take this current team to the SB, Herbert couldn't even take a Chargers team with similar talent to the playoffs.

So if you trade 2+ 1st rd picks for a good but not great veteran QB, what's the point? And if you trade for Rodgers, he's missed the playoffs with mediocre GB teams, what makes you think you can build a good enough team in two years before he falls off the proverbial cliff? And if you put a young QB on an average team, how many years before you have a shot at a SB?

The kind of trades people are talking about are the ones you make 2-3 years from now after you've built a team that can go 11-6 with Hurts or Minshew or some other middle of the pack QB. We saw that in TB, they're loaded on both sides of the ball, and Brady looks great because he's not asked to do too much - same with Stafford on the Rams. Build a top 5 team and you can plug in a good but not great veteran QB (veteran is the key). Build an average team and you'd better both land a HOF caliber QB at his peak and get lucky. And if you build a team like that, you can get a QB in the middle of the 1st rd, groom him for a year and give him an environment where he can succeed.

We won a SB with Foles b/c that team was peaking and lucky in 2017. Once injuries started to hit, you could have added Brady and you weren't going deep into the playoffs. 

lol @ you believing if Brady was the Qb in 2017 he couldn’t have gotten the eagles to a SB and won? Go look the patriots that year. They had the 30th ranked pass defense in the league, 20th in run defense, Edelman, Hightower and Marcus cannon all were on IR (major players for them) and he still got them there and played outstanding against a good eagles defense. That patriots team in 2017 was far from great. The eagles had a better overall team than the New England Patriots in 2017 even after the injuries. Frankly I don’t even think the patriots are close to sniffing a Super Bowl if it wasn’t for Tom Brady that year